Islam to become Ireland’s second religion by 2043 by Ralph Riegel, Irish Independent

Dear Ralph,

What are you doing writing an article about mosques in Dublin when we expect you to be giving us the story from Lee side? This is obviously a stocking filler, as it is completely based on conjecture and is going to get the recycling prize for 2013.

It is very true that Gerry Gannon is trying to off load a property on the northside of Dublin which has a bus to it and a Dart station, but up till now we have shown that there is no evidence that any mosque is about to be built. We have sought evidence from those involved like Abdul Haseeb who is supposed to be the project manager?

Jerry GannonCM2

May I suggest you read the links in our post below:

https://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/challenging-god-islam-with-vincent-browne/

The revelation came as construction work is expected to begin next year on Ireland’s largest mosque.

Any evidence Ralph for this claim?

Next we have the usual misunderstanding about Religion in Ireland.

 ISLAM will become Ireland’s second religion within the next 30 years because of dramatic population growth and immigration.

Population statistics compiled by the Central Statistics Office confirmed that Islam is now Ireland’s fastest-growing religion and, at its current rate of expansion, it is set to become the second religion in the State after Catholicism by 2043.

While there are indications the growth rate has slowed to 70pc between 2002 and 2006, a strong birth rate and immigration are expected to result in Ireland’s Muslim population exceeding 100,000 by 2020.

Islam is one of the slowest growing Religions in Ireland. Growth of a faith is not measured in the amount of births it registers and the migrants that enter Ireland but in its ability to spread its message in Ireland and win converts in Ireland. In this regard Islam has singularly failed to win converts or as they put it reverts in this country.

In fact Catholicism, most of the Protestant Churches, Buddhism, Hinduism and others are in fact birth rite religions. They are based on growth through procreation not evangelisation. Catholics should view the start of their faith as happening at baptism, but most Catholics when challenged would say they were born Catholic.

There is a major crisis for most of the historic denominations in that the majority of their members are as said before birth rite and cultural members. Many Catholics opt for non Catholic Schools not because they are Protestant or multi – denominational but because they are not Catholic. Does that mean they do not wish their family members to receive the sacraments, not at all, but they do not not want a Catholic controlled school.

The way the churches are responding to this crisis is to abuse the Irish constitution and they have created an Apartheid System with pass laws requiring baptismal certificates or evidence of religion. This is the Bantustanisation of Education totally at variance with National School Education. I grew up with this in South Africa based on Race, and moved to Cork and found it based on Religion. In Cork to resist the Ne Temere decree which forced Protestants to sign over their children it was required to have a Blue Card to go to a Protestant Dance.

Census

Ralph you can’t be blamed for this but the CSO is based in Cork and the guys there can give you are lot of info not generally available. However, they are operating a fruit cake categorisation of Religion approach. The buck stops with the Taoiseach’s office, but they do not have Religion experts in the formulation of how they view the issue of Religion. They basically have plumbers working as as architects and as a result there are a lot of pipes.

First look at the category of Religion in the Census.

Religion:

1. Catholic

2. Church of Ireland

3. Presbyterian

4. Islam

5. Other

6. No Religion

Note first that the various Churches are treated as separate Religions* when they are part of of the Christian Faith. So the question from my childhood in Cork was What Religion are you? Which Church are you a member of? So this sectarian description has kept the Irish people apart.

It is no surprise that he category number 6 is growing but we do not really have a clue what it stands for. Are you listening Enda?

However, figures are not available for the population breakdown between the Shi’ite and Sunni branches of Islam.

Not surprising Ralph can’t you see why? Look at question 5. Islam…..!

Questions would be What Faith do you espouse:

Christian:

Which denomination?

Islam: Sunni or Shia and the other groups which are regarded as heretics like the Ahmadiyya or Bahias which are regarded as heretics by mainline Muslims. 

The latest Census figures also revealed that 84pc of the Irish population describe themselves as Catholic, down from 91.6pc in the 1991 census.

What is needed is a proper scientific survey of Religion as the Census is actually useless.

1. Those Catholics who follow the teachings of the Catholic Church:

a. Who believe in God, the Trinity, the Creed, the sacraments of the Church and hold to Church teaching on contraception and totally reject abortion.

b. Believe in the resurrection of the body and in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I would guess about 20% of that 84%

c. Part of this group is what Pope Francis calls ideological Catholics who view Catholicism as an ideology rather than a relationship with God.

2. á la Carte Catholics who would not even be sure if they believe in God.

a. Would use artificial contraception and would agree to abortion in certain circumstances. They sociologically made the passing of the new laws possible.

b. Would believe in married clergy and have no problem in women’s priesthood. They would be around 30%.

3. Cultural and Agnostic Catholics who would be swing voters and would be influenced already by the behaviour of Pope Francis. Confirmation is more a rite of passage into Irishness and clan rather than Christian initiation.

The second fastest growing religion* in Ireland is Orthodox Christianity, where numbers have doubled in the space of five years, rising to 45,223 in 2011. This is almost entirely down to immigration from the former Soviet bloc states where Orthodox Christianity is dominant.

Note Ralph again it has nothing to do with the growth of the religion but rather it has to do with immigration.

The Protestant religions accounted for some 5pc of the population, dramatically down on figures from 1900-1920. But the good news for the Church of Ireland is that its overall population in the Republic is increasing by its greatest rate for almost a century with 129,039 Church of Ireland members in April 2011, an increase of 6.4pc in just five years.

You note again the Protestant Religion, an insane category. It would be interesting to get further evidence of this Church of Ireland increase. I would doubt it has to do with overeas Anglicans coming from Africa as they tend to join African Churches and the Pentecostal and Evangelical groupings. The sense one has is that the only strong growth is among Believers churches, Churches were you consciously have to join and do not practice Infant Baptism. One senses this where the growth is really happening and people are leaving other groupings to join as adults.

What is really needed is a scientific study which addresses the Irish cultural context.

The number of Irish people with no religion, atheists and agnostics, increased by 400pc in Ireland between 1991 and 2011 to a total of 277,237. This group included 14,769 primary school-aged children and 14,478 of secondary school age. There were 4,690 children aged under one year who had no religion.

Ralph here is a bit of sleight of hand. You have jumped to a totally false conclusion as you have equated our Category 6 from the Census with Atheism and Agnosticism.

This is a catch all concept which does not imply what you are claiming. One of the worst words to use in Ireland today is Religion. It is like a red rag to a bull. If you use Spirituality there is a  kind of purr and Christy Moore might write you a new song. But use that word in a census and people literally go ape and SCREAM NO RELIGION. Don Baker coming from his background stresses Spirituality over Religion.

You will get quite a shock as you will find Atheists are actually actually lesser in numbers than Pantheists in Ireland. Also do not wish wish to define themselves in regard to the rejection of Religion, but wish to have a category which allows them themselves in positive terms. This might explain why their numbers are lower than they should be.

http://www.atheist.ie/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

Ask the CSO for the complete breakdown. They have the detailed figures and are complete gentlemen who are in a straight jacket which only the Taioseach can change. Also look at the 1901 and 1911 census.

Meanwhile across the pond those guys in NYC no doubt affected by the licensing of stuff in Colorado have jumped off the roof with your figures Irish atheists increase by 400 percent in ten years, survey shows:

Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-Irish-atheists-increase-by-400-percent-in-ten-years-survey-shows-237949531.html#ixzz2pI9MJ7qi

With every good wish from a South African by birth and Munster by the grace of God.

Regards

Mike Garde

Religion Christian, Denomination: Mennonite/Anabaptist/ Baptist, Secular and believer in Secular education and  someone who accepts the Irish Constitution on National School Education.

https://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/the-clontarf-report/

Also supports the Constitutional separation of powers between Church and State. Also does not believe the State should endow ANY Religion.

clonskeagh
There are several large Islamic centres around Ireland, including this one in Clonskeagh, Dublin
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/islam-to-become-irelands-second-religion-by-2043-29874239.html

– 30 December 2013
ISLAM will become Ireland’s second religion within the next 30 years because of dramatic population growth and immigration.

The revelation came as construction work is expected to begin next year on Ireland’s largest mosque.

The Clongriffin centre, on Dublin’s northside, will be the largest Islamic religious complex in the State and will also boast a major cultural centre.

An Bord Pleanala earlier this year granted planning permission for the three-storey complex, which is earmarked for a six-acre site owned by developer Gerry Gannon.

Costing more than €40m, the mosque complex will be able to cater for more than 3,000 people and will feature two minarets, a prayer hall, a cultural centre, offices, bookshop, a library, a mortuary, a creche, a 600-seat events centre, school, a state-of-the-art fitness centre,  and apartment blocks.

The entire complex will be 5,573sqm in size and will be able to cater for 600 worshipers for Friday prayers.

Population statistics compiled by the Central Statistics Office confirmed that Islam is now Ireland’s fastest-growing religion and, at its current rate of expansion, it is set to become the second religion in the State after Catholicism by 2043.

In 1991, Islam accounted for just 0.1pc of the Irish population. That soared to 1.1pc – a 10-fold increase – by 2011, when a total of 49,204 Muslims were resident in Ireland.

Census

While there are indications the growth rate has slowed to 70pc between 2002 and 2006, a strong birth rate and immigration are expected to result in Ireland’s Muslim population exceeding 100,000 by 2020.

However, figures are not available for the population breakdown between the Shi’ite and Sunni branches of Islam.

The latest Census figures also revealed that 84pc of the Irish population describe themselves as Catholic, down from 91.6pc in the 1991 census.

The second fastest growing religion in Ireland is Orthodox Christianity, where numbers have doubled in the space of five years, rising to 45,223 in 2011. This is almost entirely down to immigration from the former Soviet bloc states where Orthodox Christianity is dominant.

The Protestant religions accounted for some 5pc of the population, dramatically down on figures from 1900-1920. But the good news for the Church of Ireland is that its overall population in the Republic is increasing by its greatest rate for almost a century with 129,039 Church of Ireland members in April 2011, an increase of 6.4pc in just five years.

The number of Irish people with no religion, atheists and agnostics, increased by 400pc in Ireland between 1991 and 2011 to a total of 277,237. This group included 14,769 primary school-aged children and 14,478 of secondary school age. There were 4,690 children aged under one year who had no religion.

Irish Independent

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