Sunday World December 10, 2013
THE disgraced pastors of a dodgy church which collapsed with €18.5 million debts have lost their legal battle to reopen their premises. The High Court last week ruled that the Bank of Scotland had every right to call in the receiver and seize three properties belonging to the cult-like Victory Christian Fellowship in Firhouse, Dublin. Mr Justice Paul Gilligan said pastors Brendan and Sheila Hade and Gerry Byrne had no realistic prospect of finding alternative finance.
Please read pdf here>>>>bankruptcy
He said the bank was increasingly frustrated by mounting arrears owed by
the church’s three trustees. His decision means that the church’s glitzy HQ, the Victory Centre, will remain closed, along with two other Dublin premises.
Dodgy
The judge also made permanent an injunction preventing the trustees
from interfering with the receiver’s work. Earlier hearings had been told
how the receiver was initially unable to gain access to the premises as
they had been barricaded. Earlier this year, we revealed how he Victory
Church had lost its charitable status following a Revenue investigation.
This decision sparked the Bank of Scotland, which was owed €18.5million by Victory and a further €2million by the Hades for two of their own premises, to call in the receiver. The pastors broke charity trust rules by running money- making operations from the Victory complex. The Hades lived in a deluxe apartment at the centre while accumulating a portfolio of stunning properties for themselves. One financial expert said last night: “This ruling was a personal judgement against the trustees. They could now face bankruptcy.”
Filed under: Victory (Faith Movement or Prosperity Gospel) Archive Abundant Life |
Dialogue Ireland 
Where have all
the Victory members gone? Counted only 175 at the red cow convention centre on sunday last. Is this the beginning of the end for pastor Hade and his erstwhile side- kick mr Byrne? Back to the drawing board for them ,or should i say, the drawing room. ???
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Of course Onlooker…. but if you check Jusu’s first commdent, you will see that they made a very serious accusation against a past member, which is totally out of order. Everything said was nasty gossip, I think Jusu is a very dangerous person or persons…
If you find it strange that they choose to come on this tread in pretend support of Victory..I do even more…perhaps they get some sort of weird kick…getting some attention for themselves.
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I know Victory does not want their support but posters like Jusu and anon dublin ie in this thread and under many other names in other articles on this site are members of the House of Prayer and are just joining in the debate to further their own cause. I’m sure you would agree that Christina Gallagher is either a con artist or demon possessed as would the rest of Victory so i find it strange that H of P supporters are coming into this articles and trying to offer support to Victory. It is completely deceptive though as they have no interest in Victory and are only trying to further their own cause.
You do acknowledge Mary as the mother of Jesus which is correct but they deify Mary and elevate her to an equal status along Jesus and insist that Mary visits their leader regularly and gives her prophetic vision and Stigmata. Make of that what you will but i would rather such a group would stay out of the affairs of victory.
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Onlooker, why would you think that HOP is supporting Victory? Or even that we would want or need their support …
We in Victory worship the Lord, while we of course acknowledge Mary as the mother of Jesus, He alone deserves to be worshiped and adored. Also there is no charge ever for ministering healing or helping a person, we freely give.. as God has freely given unto us.
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Reuben as a Victory supporter, would you care to humour me by telling Jusu what you think of Christina’s Gallagher so called Stigmata and her purported regularly visitations and premonitions from Mary? Would you say Christine is operating under either Godly or Satanic influence?
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Tales not tails
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Well spotted Sherlock Holmes.
This might help explain how it happens,
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It’s interesting that the House of Prayer would have representatives jumping in the Victory issue to offer support to the Hades. Under the Victory theology, Marian worship is unbiblical and satanic in nature and Brendan Hades and all of Victory would therefore classify a group such as the House of Prayer as devil worshippers and would go so far as to say that Christina Gallagher is demon possessed. With this in mind i find it very strange that House of Prayer members would support Victory. I think they are cutting off their noses to spite their face.
I did read something similiar in the old abundant life topics. HOP tried to offer support to Abundant Life too even though Abundant Life members deemed the House of Prayer to be a demonic cult.
it is strange to see such opposing groups join each other to fight Dialogue Ireland. It would be akin to North and South Korea joining forces to battle the Chinese.
How very strange and inconsistent these groups are as they will side with some enemies to fight other enemies. It’s difficult to credit any input from groups that operate on such a basis.
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To further Jusu’s cause, knowing that if i am intellictually trumped and no match for the person i am debating i could then throw the discussion completely off course by random nonsensical posts about freemasons interjected with foolish responses that would not be out of place in a kindergarten.
Note to the poster in question: If you posses the level of intelligence required to contain and sustain coherent debate without losing focus you would not need to distract with such frivolities as trolling and spamming off topic. This is for sure a coping mechanism to accomodate a lack of ability to hold oneself in a debate. It’s school playground stuff and has no place in civililsed adult conversation and debate.
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Well said, i completely agree with you, especially on that last sentence. You are right and everyone else is wrong!
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If they do claim i am DI it would only prove to show how unintelligent their representatives on this blog are as they would be unable to differentiate between different posters personality types and styles of prose which. Unlike specific HOP supporters who use mutliple pseudonyms yet exhibit the same posting style and personality through various posts and yet are convinced they have succeeded in fooling people into think they come from different posters.
It’s even more entertaining when the same person posts under another pseudonym to support and congratulate his other posts. How unfortunate for an individual that they lack self esteem to the point where they feel compelled to post under different identify to give themselves a virtual pat on the back from themselves.
Maybe i should take a leaf out of Jusu’s book with a follow up post from a completely different person ;-)
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Very clear commenting. You do know where this is going? Well hop will now claim you are DI using a new alias.
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I love the irony here. Jusu if you followed your own great advice here, you wouldn’t be spamming this thread and trying to stir up conflict.
You certainly talk the talk but neglect to walk the walk! Once again you make demands of others that you feel exempted from following yourself. Please tell me what differentiates you from the rest of us mere mortals that causes you to place yourself upon such a pedestal that you believe qualifies yourself to hand down dictates to others that you won’t follow yourself. This is a type of personality disorder found in cult leaders although i’m sure this shared trait between you and such a nefarious collective is purely coincidental and nothing else. ;-)
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So jusu, as you so determined for everyone to show true transparency and honesty, please tell us which organisation listed on this site that you are affiliated to that has got your back up to the point where you are willing to spam and troll unrelated topics with no consideration for victims of other organisations?
In case your response is to deny that you are connected to any organisation, clearly DI has pissed you off so evidently DI has been investigation the church you are connected to. It is clear which one this is but for Victory members reading this thread, it would be pertainent to let them know which Church you are affiliated with. I am very confident that once Victory member knows which group you are affiliated with they will completely discredit your disingenuous support on these threads
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I am glad you now accept you have been messing here
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good to know i have made it to the lions den so fast, they must want to shut me up so fast because their lies and twisting on the truth is now being exposed, there is what can only be described as window dressing going on here nobody with real tangable evidence its all hearsay and oh yea lets not forget the great show stopper.. “i was a member so i know all and therefore all i say is true” listen guys you would all be better to make peace with your selves and go live your life and not be consumed with such bitterness it will drive you to an early grave and its then that you will see that it was not the life you were to live, we can all have things that can send us off in a tangent but when its addressed in the correct manor it goes, this site only fuels hatred in many forms and is driven only by hate…
with you anon dublin .ie thanks for the support
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interesting when you hit a nerve you get a jump.. fyi curious i never called myself myself a christian but its this kind of leading comments that have half the people here convinced that you guys know what you are talking about? and when faced with the possibility that there might just be more that one person here that actually understand that you are full of your own bitterness you can only come to the conclusion that it must be the same person making posts under different names, sad to think you cant believe that there are more than me that see through diarrhea ireland. i see you dont show a large turnover in your basic show of accounts but if you look at it in light of the recent bombshell of the drawings of other charity’s last week, gardes drawings are as a percentage of turnover far more alarming than any of the others exposed last week, its a nice little cash box for him perhaps we will hear more on this in the future?
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BTW, any chance you could take your diatribe out of here and leave these topics to people directly affected by the Victory issues? Is it too much to ask that you would show some compassion or empathy for others?
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anon dublin ie/jusu have you multiple personality disorder. Seems that you like talking to yourself.
Yes you are hurting the other users of this site hard, we are in pain with laughter at you.
It’s a shame you don’t care about anyone abused by other organisations, not alone your own. Willingly making a mockery of victims of Victory to further your own unrelated agenda is disgusting. You have the audacity to act like the devil and call yourself a Christian.
It’s a shame you lack the empathy and intelligence to express your opinion in a more thoughtful and appropriate manner. I hear the westboro baptist church has a few openings, i think you’d fit right in there as they share your personality and expressiveness
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Jusu….disregard these last comments. You were deadly accurate in your comments and analysis, so the Diarrohes trolls attacked YOU. This site Diarroha Irl DI is the biggest sham and scam in these days. Keep on hitting…hard and low…because these shemen do not know any other language…and man…you are hurting them bad…keep going brother.
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God bless Mike Victory
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God bless Mike Garda
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For the record Jusu, the post above is an intelligent example of how to troll someone. Take note, study it, and try harder.next time and hopefully we’ll see better constructed thoughts from you. You’re a kitten trying to roar like a lion in the midst of a pride, so don’t be surprised when the lions start to chew you up.
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Everyone will be blessed if brendan ,shelia and mr byrne stop trying to fool people into believing that they are blamless in the total mess that is Victory church. The simple fact is they , and they alone, are responsible. Remember its the members tithes and offerings that are paying for the high court and supreme court cases. What a shambels, and all because of arrogant pride.
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No need for congratulations, this guy does not possess the required level of intelligence to maintain his inept facade. I do find the logical fallacies in his arguments quite entertaining though, managing to discredit himself without any external input, Whilst bitterness and contempt can cloud the rationale of the greatest of thinkers, it’s a shame to see what it does to the less intellectually endowed and a greater shame to see real, open, honest, and relevant debate from on threads completely polluted by the nonsensical ramblings of an irrelevant individual posturing himself to be someone of importance. Jusu is too busy scratching his egotistical itch on this thread and others under whatever multiple pseudonyms he chooses in a vain attempt to pretend that his singular irrelevant voice is the voice of many.
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I would love to have a conversation with you about Jusu.
You do not realise how insightful you about this troll.
Generally they try to deflect from their own group and mess with the threads they know nothing about.
Diversion is the nature of the game. You have a great ability to see through the game going on.
I think you are indeed right that at a deep level they know we are telling the truth and you are giving your own experience so he can’t really contradict you, so concocts stories to get people debating him rather than focusing on the thread.
The attempt to ask questions about our charity mixing up trusts and companies. Accusing us of lining our pockets and then leaves that aside when we publish our accounts:
Then tells us we are contradicting ourselves and then we show that is nonsense goes on to thank us for correcting errors we have not made.
Congratulations on being able to see through that vulgar and coarse person’s methodology and thank you for bringing us back to the topic the Victory Church fiasco
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Jusu, you’re hypocrisy is bordering on parody at this stage. According to your analogy i am not qualified as a passenger of the luas to comment on the running of the Luas, but yet you as someone who uses Dublin bus instead feel perfectly entitled to comment and support the Luas authority??? Really?? You don’t see anything contradictory at all.
I also assume that you as a mere constituent dare not ever comment on the economy or anything political as you are simply a passenger of this government.
If some has used and abused you, by your logic it still does not one to speak on the topic but once again as a complete outsider you feel more qualified to support the abusers rather than the victims. I’m not a psychologist by any means but a deeper analysis of your posts indicates that this topic is striking closer to home that you would care to admit to. I think you are a little more qualified to speak than you are willing to admit to.
Surely not more contradiction, i thought your opinion is that members of the church are not qualified to speak about the running of the church, but somehow you as a passive one time attendee will qualify yourself as a commentator!
My goodness, you certain esteem yourself higher than the random people in the pew, sounds like something someone with pride issues in a leadership position of a similarly setup church, would do!
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i will go to the church this weekend and get qualified to comment on matters relating to the church,
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curious
just because you may have traveled on the luas it doesn’t mean you are now qualified to comment on the running of the company or indeed any more qualified to comment on company affairs than someone who has studied about the luas but never traveled on it, so i fail to see your position of authority with the affairs of victory church?
some of the most disliked people out there are the traffic wardens because they put tickets on peoples cars, they will time and time again get blasted by people who feel they were wronged by the warden, truth is there is an underlying issue behind their anger and it is that they didnt feed the meter …but that is always left out of the ensuing tail of woe….. draw your own conclusions from this but i see a whole lot of tails here and you can be sure that the underlying issues are not being told just the ones that justify your bitterness.
regarding the chy as you put it, im not making an issue of the charity, what im showing is that a story was being spun by di using the words “high court and evidence showing misuse ” this is a fabrication and is not near the truth of what a court will rule on but its put out there in this way to convince people that di know what they are talking about where as the opposite is the case,
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God bless Bank of Scotland. God bless Revenue, God bless the High court, they are all great people too.
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God bless Anonymous
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God Bless Brendan / sheila / Gerry Byrne they are great people the best
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God Bless Garry Lennon
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Why keep dragging up the CHY status Jusu. The issue here on this thread is the potential for Bankruptcy caused by the bank calling in the building collateral due to non payment of debt by the hades. Brendan borrowed too much and screwed up everything. The banks have taken the properties and a run in the supreme court will be the final nail in the coffin if Brendan is stupid enough to think that the Supreme court will over rule the high court on this. Where is he going to get the money to pay supreme court costs to fight an unwinnable battle spurned on by pride and arrogance.
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Jusu, just to confirm i am not associated with DI in any way. I am a former victim/member of this motley crew and their associates. If as you say you are in know way connected, then everything you know if completely Chinese whispers. As someone with direct former involvement i am far more qualified than you to express an option about what is perpretrated in this place,
I love how people like Jusu watching from a great and disconnected distance seem to think they know more than those sitting in the pews of affected churches.
Amen
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GOD’S WILL BE DONE1 Let us pray……………….
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well done di now you see when you address the facts and report them as facts not dressing them up, we can now see a balanced report and not the one you started out with earlier, now we can see how your comment/report has changed from.. the court and evidence and showing abuse… and now you state that you didnt claim that the court made mention of the status, it shows how you could have mislead people here had we not cleared this point up, good job.
now how are we going to address the problem that some people are not realy sure what church their family members attended and are posting the same comments on this page about victory church and on the new page about victory outreach, again im sorry to say its not showing me that there is a balance or truth here?
does garde have anything to say about addictions and where to get treatment, it would be positive to hear the opinion of di and perhaps help …
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No one claimed that the High Court made mention of Charitable Status.
The contradiction is because you left out this sentence!
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DI
“I assume Jusu you regard the High Court and evidence produced showing they had abused their charitable status is hearsay? May I suggest you get off the stage as all you are doing is spreading hearsay.”
DI
“No one claimed that the High Court made mention of Charitable Status.”
now DI i can be the first to show that you are telling lies about your lies when you look at two of your recent posts that are clearly in conflict with each other….. Diarrea Ireland you need to be better than this if you want to continue to try and fool people that you actually know what you are talking about.
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curious
you must be part of the di team, let me say that di are good at spinning, it takes time to pick pieces of truth and then put such a spin on it that the result is far from the actual truth and then have vulnerable people believe it.just to be clear, contrary to your earlier statement, i understand that there are no high court or revenue judgments regarding the issue we speak about (charitable status) but you present this as fact, you try to get the mob going on the understanding that you are actually telling the truth about this but you do so without any supporting evidence,
anon i have no view on the sanfords, i am not connected to any of the churches, i have taken an interest in this and i will challenge mistrusts when i see them, i understand the courts so be careful di with your reports on the court issues because so far you are living up to your name Diarrea Ireland
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anon dublin ie great description of the site ! diarrhea Ireland is the perfect term for what this site is all about, lies, deceptive opinions, twisted portrayal of truth, now di are saying they will soon publish their accounts to assist matters,the truth about this is that soon all charity’s will have to publish their accounts but of course di are putting their own twist on it by making it look like they are doing it for noble reasons? once again diarrhea Ireland is painting a less than true picture for all who believe that if its on di it must be true,garde will have to be creative with his books now as well as his words
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loosers
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First DI is not a company and consequently has no directors to give money.
It is a charitable trust and has a DIRECTOR Mike Garde.
So angry is this person he/she/it screams abuse, we leave it to our readers to decide. We will likely very soon publish our accounts online as it will assist our charity we have never got more than about €15k in the baNK, SO the idea of enriching ourselves is laughable!
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Duly noted, i agree it seems Jusu is not a member. The diatribe though is indicative of some of the postings from Abundant Life/Victory Galway members and Jusu seems to have a vested interested whilst not a direct member therefore i would guess that Jusu is a member of a connected church such as victory galway,
So Jusu, what is your opinion of the Sanfords ;-)
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when will people realise that Dialogueireland…………………………………..(I call it Diarroheaireland) is a very troubled, intellectually challenged little operation which feeds a few “directors” from charitable donations.
There has NEVER been balance nor fairness from Diarroheaireland DI…only abuse, mockery, ridicule and superior attititude.
This site not only thrives on hearsay, gossip and anger, but is a beautiful little black hole where lies breed and grow like blood-sucking insects.
The solution to this site is so so simple…..
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I don’t think Jusu is a member of Victory… as this person said in the tread earlier ……” your Pastors are good people..” if this Jusu is a member, they would use the term …” our Pastors” … especially when conversing with a member of the same church…..
So in my humble opinion Jusu is not a member of Victory church.
Pastors would have helped many people over the years…but that is private and should be kept so.
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So you demand others to use actual supported facts, which is a very reasonable request but then you post libelous negative comments about former members calling them thieves and asserting that they received large sums of money and when challenged you admit that you don’t actually know and you were only posting unsubstantiated second hand information which is hearsay and Chinese whispers, and presenting this as ACTUAL FACT.
The quotes above show what an outrageous hypocrite you are.
In you opinion the high court and revenue judgements, written in stone are not factual despite evidence to the contrary and yet your stories from a friend of a friend of a friend are more concrete??
Jusu, you give a bad name to Christians in Victory, I know there are good people there like QueenB caught up in the mess. I hope you are not part of the leadership there because if you are a representative of Victory and indicative of it’s leadership then I would urge people to flee quickly.
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Keep digging
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Then di you are clearly using your self appointed percevied position of authority on all matters to mislead others with your half cocked remarks, your use of such “power” words earlier when you question my regard for the “High court” and “evidence produced” you give the impression that the courts have formed an opinion on such matters and then you place it in the public eye as fact, when the actual truth is there was no such opinion or ruling made, your fringing the truth in the same way a an illusionist will try convince you that the tricks they perform are real by presenting elements of truth and dressing it up with persevered fact and let you come up with an ill-informed conclusion.
we see it in this country time and time again where the progressive get torn down to the level of their accusers,there is always a place for public opinion and i support this but when it turns to a mob like pursuit its wrong.. you di should be only putting clear supported facts out without your twist on it. shame on you di
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Anon, I think you are doing great… I don’t think (as Jusu said) ..that your oozing hurt….. you have moved on…and didn’t you say in a earlier tread you forgave Pastors and still pray for them…..
I feel at the moment I’m between a rock and a hard place!!
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Jusu, you have overstepped the line on your first comment…..
DI… I Really Think You Should scrap Jusu’s First comment !!!!!
There could be trouble ahead!!!!!
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No one claimed that the High Court made mention of Charitable Status. That is the remit of Revenue.
Rather the evidence of adding house to house and the prospect of bankruptcy should be the focus of your comments. Instead of the gospel of grace and poverty we had a kingdom of mammon and the flaunting of wealth as a sign of God’s presence. You are in denial and missing the main point with these excursions into diversion.
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if i can recall correctly the court case was not about the charitable status and if the terms abuse of the status was used and proved to be the case in court you might present it, otherwise you are once again just taking words and twisting them for your own promotion of this site, no fact just fiction or as you like to put it hearsay,
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anon, your hurting and need to forgive and let go, its oozing from you and it will consume you, take the log from your own eye first i think is the word
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I assume Jusu you regard the High Court and evidence produced showing they had abused their charitable status is hearsay? May I suggest you get off the stage as all you are doing is spreading hearsay.
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thank you queenb for your honest opinion you are one of a small amount of people that are not consumed with bitterness on this sorry site,if i over stepped with my comments i retract i dont know this person just heard a story perhaps im as bad by saying it as the other story tellers on this site.i dont find the victory situation funny at all,your pastors are good people who are coming under the attack of mindless people on this site who clearly are lead by unfounded third and fourth hand information,just like in the pubs where you will often hear it said “i know a guy who heard a guy say he knows someone who overheard a someone say …. ” and that is what this site is all about innuendos and allegations with no back bone, i bring God into this because its true that we will all have to face him and he will judge every one of us over what have said or thought against the church not just the victory church, you should know that, you comment on the zero tolerance for mistreating people as above what are you referring to
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QueenB i completely agree with your post even though i disagree with your support for the Hades based on personal experience. The post from Jusu is a typical example of the venomous treatment of people who leave Victory. The amount of evil spoken of former members is quite horrifying. One minute they are exalted as wonderful and as soon as they leave they become all sorts of evil. It’s disgraceful the carry on of such backbiters and a typical example of why many in Victory lack true Christian love. Unfortunaletly Brendan, Sheila and Gerry have also been guilty of such backbiting, their own family is not even immune when they are crossed. I can overlook such ill treatment from a congregation to a certain degree but when the leadership show such flaws it’s time to find a church more ground in Christ’s love less grounded in self preservation at the expense of others which is the antithesis of what Christ did on the cross.
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Jusu, you might find it amusing…but when it’s your Pastors and your beloved sisters and brothers that are going through this sorry mess, it is by no means funny in any shape or form. What you have said, takes the character of that person… to say in a public domain that a certain persons wife is a thief is a very serious matter… even if you didn’t say them by name, your finger is pointed.. and most people can figer out who you mean. We all come in contact with people, even in church, that might not be our favourite person..but the Grace of God helps us love them. I think that DI should scrap your comment..as you are a dangerous person ..talking some nasty gossip, then you end by bringing God into it… Lord have Mercy!!
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its quiet amusing to see such diverse opinions on the whole subject and all claiming to know the truth or facts of what is going on including the owners of DI, I have it from a good source the person that A says left and was not given a proper send off was getting decent wage and was provided with a house to live in free of charge by the hades and byrne, he and his wife were given a very large sum of money by the same people so his wife could start a business it never worked and the money was never paid back,i hear his leaving was against his promise to work to an agreed date but he didnt keep to his side of the promise, his wife worked in the firhouse building but i hear that she was found to have sticky fingers and was found out,wonder why he didnt hang around.
its great to see so many upstanding citizens here that are without sin that cast stones without any remorse, some of you say you were in the church / are in other ones you, should be more interested in what god will think of you for your bitterness towards these people when your day comes !
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They really are are not capable of discerning Gods will in all of this. Pride before the fall.
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Believe me there have been people who have tried to tell them, why do you think so many people have left even before all the started with the banks people left because they saw things that wasn’t in line with the word if God and it got dismissed when they tried to talk to them about it
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The hades and mr byrne never really served God or Jesus, they only served themsesves. Their greed got the better of them and now they are paying the price. The recent exposures in the newspapers brings home, to all who desire the truth,the extent of deceitfulness that they are capable of. They have debts of 18.7million taken out on 3 premises belonging to Victory church . The recent court case ,which they lost, has saddled them with enormous extra legal costs, and if my information is correct they are appealing the high court decision to the supreme court ..in my humble opinion a monumental mistake.Are there no righteous upstanding people in Victory to say to them, stop now or our credibility will be lost forever.?
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Brendan and Sheila ultimately decide who ends up in leadership. The buck stops with them if there are leadership issues. They also had no problem joining forces with the Sanfords in Galway despite all the controversy aligned with Abundant Life.
The pastors made a lot of mistakes and a succession of poor judgement has left them in a precarious situation.
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Anon, Yes I agree at the end of the day the responsibiliy lies with the Pastors. Also only the right people should be put in leadership, and zero tolerance for mistreatment of people… as we read further up on this tread.
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Hilarious, so the scale of the building and cost was not the responsibility of the Hades. You sure like passing the blame. Of course it helps to blame others who have left the church for the current strife. The hades signed off on everything, do not forget that.
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Js, you are too much… fair play to you.. But much as I love Pastors, this whole thing has been too big a deal. The church members did sow into the new building…but the scale and detail of the project grew too big and too expensive. The ‘nice’ person who may have contacted the friend of Anonymous for a double …. had far too much say in the church project…of course he was ousted out when they saw some of the ‘fruit’ he produced…. All this should never have happened, and so many of the people I love have left..
We shall have to wait and see what happens now..
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You are on planet Bertie with a bit blarney thrown in. What are you on currently to bring you so under influence. Jack Daniels or was it Paddy Hade?
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You know what QueenB, I think the Victory leadership should never have personally financed those loans for the Firhouse church. It should have been paid for by Lotto funds – which would have been shown to save the taxpayer millions with all the good work they did for the people of Dublin. It cost far too much for such a small group of core members to support the constuction of that building – but they had an independant streak.
In a proper country, people like this would be rewarded with knighthoods for their lifes work – but here in begruggery Ireland they are dragged though the courts in their seventies facing possible jail or bankrupcy.
But hey this is Ireland
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Anonymous should have left a comment on this thread but did it under this one:
Victory Outreach of Ballyfermot will feature in an RTE 1 Prime Time programme, Tuesday 17th December, 2013.
Submitted on 2013/12/14 at 6:09 pm
My friend was is a single mum was given a envelope with her registration number on it. She gave into this every Sunday and then for some reason a phone call was made to her living quarters from the administrator who was linked to the Hades through marriage. A message was left on the phone to bring in on the double the following Sunday. How christ centered was that. Repent you group of pastors and associates not in your house at your private meetings which we all know about, as your so called friends are not all loyal to you (take note). repent before the body of christ which you alone have given such a bad name.
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A, I agree much more should have been done…. I don’t have all the answers…but I do thank God and Bless those who gave of their time while they were in Victory, and I’m sorry to have said they were paid well, if that was not the case.
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Anon… Yes tithing according to the Bible is taught in Victory, as it is in many Christian churches… but no one is forced to give…that would not be right…and we are not cursed if we don’t tithe, as we are under Grace. I’m a tither and have been for many years…it works for me, because I always have something, so I can bless others.
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I know that those meetings were not in the church they were some where else like you said and again the venue was something that for some reason the pastors wanted kept hush hush. And as for the person who left being on a good wage that is so laughable he wasn’t on a good wage, the only people who was good wages in the centre were the ones related to the pastors and the ones who on a fair wage were the ones who didn’t have anything to do with the church. The people who who was members of the church were all kept on a very low wage. yes the pastor did give him help with some stuff, but he also worked a lot of hours unpaid as a volunteer for them as well. Some days he would have worked 16 hr days,
Yes I understand their dreams got shattered but that doesn’t excuse them for what they did, and they fact that your using that as an excuse again brings into question if they have repented.
And you said they were planing to do great things to help people they had been there for three going on four years they had plenty of time to try to help people in need and the faculties to do so but never did, in fact I can someone wanted to take some food out to homeless and they were discouraged to do so and were told it be better if they volunteered with an organisation that was already doing so than start a ministry like that from the church
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JS, I’m glad your experience with Victory was good, especially regarding your sister getting love and support at a very needy time in her life…if she was attending church, she most likely received Jesus into her heart, and you can be sure she is in a better place now. It’s always hard to loose someone you love…. and you are great to have shared this with us.
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A, the prayer mettings I’m talking about..were not in the Church, but in another place. I take on board what you are saying…. perhaps that person who left had been on a good wage for years.. free car ect. so when the money was gone..so was he. yes he should have beenn sent out with a blessing… I was there that day.. and he just walked out after the service…didn’t say nothing to nobody.it was a pity on both sides.
Regarding not letting the receivers in..it was handled badly…but it was a sudden thing… when you see your dream shattered. The new building was to be a welcome place for everyone…and a reach out centre, to help those in need, we were planning to do great things for the people ..just reaching out in love. ……Yes I do want to be in God’s will for my life …
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@QueenB this may surprise you but I have been in the some of the prayer meetings since they left firhouse, and during them I saw very little evidence of repentance what I did see though was a lot of blame shifting – it was the accountant fault they lost their charitity status, it was the bank fault they let non Christian business ran from the church.
I also saw pastor Brendan on one of Sundays before they left firhouse stand up during his sermon and praise the men who broke into property on Westland row and took it back of the receivers. I also know quite a bit of other stuff that went on in that building but as I have no way of backing it up with evidence I think it be better that I don’t mention it on here.
But listen I’m not having a go at you because all your doing is standing up for people who you’ve come to love and trust, I know I been there as the arguments your using are the same ones I used when all this started but just ask yourself a few questions
Why was a 24 hr rota set up to stop the receivers coming in? Claiming that it was doing Gods work when in fact it was breaking the law,
Why did the pastors disappear during the time two of their sons got arrested? And there was a warent out for their arrest
Why did pastor Brendan lie during one of his sermons and say that he have never been to court before?
Why are they still not showing members of the church the books?
Someone who was quite well known in the church and worked really hard for the church decided to leave and on his last Sunday there was no mention of it being his last Sunday no thank you to him for all the work he done, no loving prayer over him before he moved on, instead the sermon that day was on how people who are leaving the church are doing the wrong thing
QueenB I really hope you think these things over and pray for Godly wisdom and for his will to be done in your life
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wasent aware of any of that anon – noone ever asked her for anything …
And I was checking because I also thought it was a scam at that time
But as I learned, they were a very decent and honourable bunch of people who helped her enourmously in her final days
They actually believed in the core religeon of Christianity – rediculous as it might seem
And good luck to them anyway if they do
But for me, I am quite happy with the lights going off…
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Is it voluntary giving if you are told you are cursed by God if you don’t? I call that manipulation. Also they tracked the giving of members through registration numbers on envelopes and called personal meetings with highly involved members when their donations dropped below a required level. If your sister give little then she was only a passive member. If an actively highly involved member give little or nothing their record would be checked and they would be subject to sanctions
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Well fair enough anon
I am also directly directly affected by Victory as my sister was a member and she told me all about it. Yes she said the sermons were about paying 10% but no-one ever asked her directly / personally for anything. She did give them a few quid voluntarily in the basket but not much as she didnt have much. So forget about the money side – whatever was paid by anyone was done voluntarily as far as I know.
She also told me about other members many of whom were in similar situations to herself ie terminally ill, bankrupt, destitute, etc – most of whom hadnt a penny to give them – and it was free for all comers.
And FYI – I would never be involved in any religeon but I do appreciate those who do good works and look after the sick and poor – especially if they have looked after direct family members so well.
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If you’re not a member or closely connected to this organization then I’m sorry but your opinion is irrelevant. This is coming from someone who was directly affected by Victory and i have plenty of knowledge of the abuses taking place. The hades openly criticized from the pulpit anyone who did not give at least 10% of their income and called such people cursed. What the government did to this country is irrelevant for this discussion. Justifying abuses in Victory by saying that the government perpetrated abuses
BTW, if your sister gave nothing, then she is cursed according to the Hades. Also you must never have attended a service as the first 10 minutes (at a minimum) of a sermon is a request for money using scripture to back up the request and promise God’s blessing to anyone that donates. This happens every service so if your sister was a regular attendee it is completely untrue to say she was never asked for money. Go along on Sunday if you don’t believe me.
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Anon – I am an unbeliever I do not believe there is any God, Allah, Jahweh or whetever you want to call him.When we die, the lights go out and thats it – its all over and I dont have a problem with that. Clear?
But it does bother me that these people are being hauled through the courts but who have spent the best part of their lives looking after many of the hopeless of Dublin if not Ireland when we have Bertie Ahearns mates getting paid €200k+ with a pension of €100k for supposed doing charity work.
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BTW, i may be wrong but i don’t for one second believe you are a non believer. I think you are a member of the church as you are far too defensive for someone with little experience and no contact with the church.
Just to confirm by unbeliever, you mean you do not believe that Christ is your saviour, is that correct?
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So you admit your defense of Victory is based on second hand information from the experience of one person! You then contrast this to documented financial evidence from the revenue, their own bank and the high court.
You’ll have to forgive me for not giving any credence to any of your posts so.
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No dialogue, these people have done absolutely magnificent work over many many years. I only know because my sister was dying of cancer and the support she got from them… well if you won the lotto you still couldnt repay them. Thats just my experience – second hand admittedly I dont know everything that went on.
I do know that little or no money changed hands as she didnt have much
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Tell us more about your believing unbelief!
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btw Anon2 i am not a member of Victory nor any church as I am a non believer. But I had a family member who was involved with Victory and I must say the experience was very positive for her. It was not a financial scam by any means as the author of this site suggests – I dont think she was asked or gave them anything.
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It’s amazing all of these victory members commenting on the finances when the hades won’t reveal the audited accounts to the church. The banks had access and decided to instigate proceedings and revenue had access and pulled their charity status.
Ask the hades for a copy of the accounts and then enter debate otherwise defenders are just posting unsubstantiated opinion.
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You are in such denial you turn wine into water.
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The comparison between Victory Church and the CRC is telling…
To my knowledge the Victory leadership took no salary for 24/7/365 service over many years offering comfort to the dying, the destitute and hopeless of Dublin – as well as the many believers in their religeon
But the CRC leader took a salary of €240k from the State for doing little or nothing – having been appointed by Bertie Ahearn for no particular reason
Once exposed, the CRC man gets a €200,000 cash pay off plus a €100,000 pension for the duration of his his life
But when the State thinks Victory are making millions selling cups of coffee they revoke their charitable status and the bank withdraws their loans – thus trying to bankrupt and destroy them.
I mean, you could hardly make it up
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Also A, what makes you think that Pastors haven’t repented for whats happened in church …were you at the prayer service…I doubt it.
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A, the answer is the Bank put so much pressure on Victory… Pastors vision was to have a debt free church…in the boom properties were bought with the view to sell them to pay for the new building..but the market went belly up… also the cost of running the building, staff wages ect. was huge. I’m just saying how it was… sure if you could see into the future it would be great… and we would not be in this situation.
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@QueenB, I’m not saying that there was no free tea and coffee given out but to say that they give enough so the coffee shop never made any profit is the most outrageous thing I ever heard that place were busy for most the time 7 days a weak. And FYI there was a lot more business going on in the centre that were also making profits why else did they have their charities status taken away
And I think you find that most of us don’t want to tear the pastors apart but want them to come to a place of repentance for the lies they told, the ungodly businesses that was going on in the house of God and all the false teaching they allowed into the church
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Thank you Anonymous … you have a good heart, not just joining in to tear Pastors apart. And yes your right.. Victory is not a cult…I am a member for many years…and am no flake for sure. And people are still been blessed with this ministry, our services and worship is still anointed despite the challenge of not being in our own building…. Firhouse was a place where all people were welcome…I doubt if any profit was made in the coffee shop as so many free tea and coffee was given out to people, who were happy to unload their troubles and receive prayer…with no strings attached. Not everything printed in the newspaper was correct… even so this is a very hard time for Pastors and our beloved members. We thank God for His love and grace to keep us strong and that God is still using us in His Kingdom, bringing salvation to the lost and hope to the hopeless and healing to the sick, to Him be the Glory, Amen.
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The latest news regarding the Hades and Gerry Byrne is that they have appealed their recent defeat in the high court and have instructed their legal team to take the case to the Supreme court. IS this an act of sheer madness on their part or arrogant pride.Not only do they owe 18.7 million to bank of Scotland, Mr. hade has personal liabilites of 2 million , he is also saddled with the costs associated with the high court case and now Supreme court costs. Mr hade and Mr Byrne are due back in the high court in the near future to face charges of fraud brought against them by two business men and an ex. member of victory fellowship.
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Its not a cult, its simply a religeon if thats the one that suits you
This site, in the great company of the Sunday World, wishes to sensationalise the Victory Church. But they helped many people in dire straits who have come and gone from their congregation..Sadly it seems like the cynics of this world have overcome them
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The leadership could have stopped what they were doing….and changed…but they chose to continue to deceive and use people for their own personal gain. What a pity!
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