Houses of the Holy…
Pastors: Gerry Byrne, Sheila Hade and Brendan Hade
All photos Courtesy of The Sunday World
Read pdfs here:
Huge property portfolio of
debt-riddled church bosses
http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/houses-of-the-holy
They have crippled their church with a massive €18 million debt but the bosses of the bust Victory Christian Fellowship have spent years buying up a staggering amount of property for themselves.
Today the Sunday World lifts the lid on the astonishing portfolio owned by pastors Brendan and Sheila Hade and some of their family.
Impressive: Rocbrook House, Blackglen Road, Rathfarnham
The one-time electrician and his wife and their sons have at least 30 homes, some of them luxury mansions.
Massive: property at Stocking Lane, Dublin
And their property empire stretches from Dublin as far as Galway and Waterford.
Exclusive: Fountainhead, Rockbrook, Rathfarnham
On top of that, we can reveal that their playboy son Brian (44), a former male model, has had his 30ft speedboat seized at Dun Laoghaire marina because of non-payment of berthing fees.
Prime location: Brentwood House, Rathfarnham
Pile high: 28 and 29 Verschoyle Heights, Saggart Abbey, Co. Dublin
The former Lamborghini-driving father of three, who ditched his wife Majella after starting an affair with a young Latvian girl he met in a bar, has also had two helicopters impounded.
House: 27 Maplewood Lawn, Tallaght
Former followers of the controversial Church were last night demanding to know where the money came to finance such an astonishing lifestyle.
Owners: 43 Maplewood Park
The Sunday World was the first to reveal earlier this month how Victory had lost its charitable status following an investigation by Revenue.
The move sparked the Bank of Scotland, who were owed €18 million in loans by Victory and a further €2 million by the Hades for two of their own premises, to call in receivers.
The Hades and fellow pastor, Gerry Byrne, ask followers to donate one tenth of their earnings to their church.
They preach that the “more money you give, the more blessings you get” and would collect at least €10,000 a week in donations. Followers now want to know their cash was not used to buy the Hades’s huge array of homes.
The most impressive of these is the family home, Fountain Head, a magnificent four-storey mansion in exclusive Rocbrook in the Dublin Mountains.
Brendan (72) and Sheila also still own the previous family home, Rosebank, on Ballyboden Road, Rathfarnham, which they rent out as a shelter.
According to public records, they also own 61 and 62 Castlegate, Castle Street, Dublin; 33/34 Main Street, Rathfarnham; Apartments 132 and 133 Jervis Place, Great Strand St; Apartment 34, Virginia Hall, Belgard Square, Tallaght; a property on Ballyboden Road and 20 Old Orchard townland.
In 20 Ellensborough Crescent, Kiltipper, Tallaght, their names are registered as owners even though the property was bought by Victory. The couple also own 61 Richardson’s Folly in Co. Waterford and land in Clifden, Co. Galway.
Brian and estranged wife Majella own the exclusive 8 Brehons Chair, Kellystown Road, Dublin; Brentwood House, Ballyboden Road, Rathfarnham, which they rent out as a homeless hostel; Apartment 50, Block E, Belgard Square West, Tallaght; Apt 14, Ivy Exchange, Parnell Street; land in Old Orchard townland and lands in Clifden, Co. Galway.
The Hades’ son, Niall (44), owns Highfield, Woodtown Way, Stocking Lane, Rathfarnham; 31 Loretto Park, Rathfarnham; 752a Virginia Heights, Springfield, Dublin; 92 Moy House, Custom House Square; 24 St Maelruans Park, Tallaght; land on Blessington Road, Tallaght; 107 Jervis Place, Abbey St and a house on The Park, Garranswood, Tallaght.
He also owns a property at South City Business Centre, Tallaght.
Filed under: Victory (Faith Movement or Prosperity Gospel) Archive Abundant Life, Victory Galway now The Connect Church |
Dialogue Ireland 
Evil money grabbing bastards is what the Hade family are. All you f—— idiots think they have ur interests at heart? Wake up & stop giving them your money you f—— morons
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DI ..I am very sorry, please understand I am shocked and upset with what has happened. I am also sorry to the ones who posted their experience in victory..and I dismissed their point of view…I guess I’m between a rock and a hard place at this time…. Thank you.
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You are acknowledging your self interest. You are not some impartial observer. That is progress.
The issue is not whether your church or any church is imperfect.
Rather it is that you do not seem to be able to look at issues objectively.
1. Are the issues revealed in the Sunday World consistent with being in leadership
of a Christian Church?
2. Can you mix business and spiritual leadership?
Please just answer these straight question, using scripture or just a straight answer.
This is not about your experience or not. Those that commenting are not generally sharing their experience, but expressing an opinion about facts.
No it is not the fact that you speak out but that you consistently avoid issues and do not give a straight answer!
Bertie Ahern was a good person at heart, but it does not excuse his activities. Also where does Gerry Byrne fit into your analysis? Also Pastor Brendan and Sheila are made to look like they are totally naive, when they knew exactly what they were doing.
Mistakes sounds very weak. Would you say criminal acts took place? Would you count it as sinful to use a Christian idea? What are these mistakes spell them out. You seem to have a very weak idea in regard to good and evil.
You keep repeating this mantra, what does it mean. It is like saying God Bless.
Why would I not understand? I am a Christian after all?
I have explained this time after time and you choose to misrepresent my position. DI is not a Christian organisation but attempts to address cultism whether in Christian, Buddhist or non Religious groups.
Are you working hard, and not taking a break? What has the first sentence got to do with the second. This forum is where people seek answers and too date you are one of the only people to respond, but people are getting angry with you as you never answer a straight question!
After this Christian candy floss you end with a sting every time, passive aggressive stuff:
We will always welcome you here, but we really more idea what is happening in Victory from the Sunday World than you have produced!
Shame on you for attacking people who have a different view from yours. What hearsay evidence has been brought here?
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Alive to God:
You think it terrible that people who are in or have left Victory who are “pulling down people..who work hard…seldom take a brake,” are liars? The Hades and Byrne certainly took many breaks to go and look at properties. I doubt you have taken a loss yourself through business arrangements with the Hades or Byrne otherwise you would be singing a different tune.
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Alive to God-I think the problem is you are not respective to the truth……The dealings of victory have been going on since the beginnings of year 2000. It is unfair for you to judge others and call them liars, when they speak of personal experience in this complex..”Prosperity Movement” which the hades actively promoted from the beginning. We were there and saw first hand what was going on and when we confronted the Hades, as others have also done, we were rejected and asked to leave the church, as we were causing people to question things by us stepping out. So unfortunately you are not any better than anyone, you are condemning people who have written their story without knowledge of the situation. Tell my why did Paddy and Pauline Keegan leave so suddenly……they were like the right hand to hades and very active in the church and extremely supportive of the mission of Victory until they saw the “light” The Keegans are also nice people….so nice doesn’t make it right….and the biggest thing is when you mess up to take ownship of your errors and repent and change to make things right.
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DI..thats a little unkind… try and see it from my stand point…I have been in this ministry for many years. We all know no church is perfect, I have to say my experience is not what some on this forum are saying. When I speak out…I’m attacked.. it’s like a pack of wolves waiting…baying for blood. Pastor Brendan and Sheila are good people at heart…ok mistakes have been made… but God will have the last word in this challenge we are going through, not that I expect you to understand…as it was stated in one post ‘DI don’t do God’…. I’m not coping out, I just find this forum very negative…pulling down people..who work hard…seldom take a brake, love the Lord and the people of this nation and all the nations connected to victory..
Shame on those who have told lies and just post hearsay…
I do say thankyou to DI for giving me the opportunity to post my view and my experience regarding victory.
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Note you cop out when the going gets tough!
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Correction Anon, if you read my post.. 12 July, I did agree that God’s House should not be made into a house of trade or merchandise, as the Scripture says in John 2v16. I said it was wrong and it should not have happened…and it should never happen again.
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Um, i think you’ll find there were others including myself that challenged you with scripture which you have completely avoided to answer, so your point that no one else is providing scripture is completely untrue. Your final answer is to bow out when challenged with no effective rebuttal. It is a shame that your passion is based more on the love of man and love of an organisation that it is based on the love of the word of God as you are willing to overlook so much scripture for the great cause of Victory.
I am sorry you are leaving the discussion, however if you are not able to discuss the theology and merits of Victory from a scriptural basis then it’s probably for the best as you seem way out of your depth
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I’m bowing out for awhile…I of course I will be praying for victory Pastors and members…and I’ll include past members too.
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I was answering Astonished in Celbridge…who said something rotten had been going down for a long time…my answere was yes…things are better since the rot left or depart
DI …do you have a problem with my post? Also how come you ask me to give Scripture..when no one else is?
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I am sorry..a lot of good people left the church over the years…andd then there were some who no longer attend..and thats fine with everyone…
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Alive to God, you call others who have left the church “Rot”! However Christian of you as you demand others to walk in love towards the Hades. I have also noticed that you completely avoided all of the scriptural questions put to you and waited a while to chirp back in to attack ex-members by calling them names.
Mike, anon ≠ Mr unless some posts have been edited since.
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We do not need scripture but some answers to questions which require biblical answers, not just vague texts.
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Be careful of not doing what Rudy did using the same IP to pretend you are someone different?
ANON=Mr?
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Alive to God you are continuing to avoid genuine questions, and when confronted you attack the commenter?
Can you not see the pattern. It is called denial. A kind of Peter and the cock crowing thrice?
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Astonished, …for your info…things changed for the good as much of the rot has departed!
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just watched some of the weekly Youtube updates on the building of VCT that Mark Fennel did and was amused to see the Electrical contractors wearing High Visibility Jackets with ” Hade Electrical” emblazoned on the back of them. It would be interesting to see the “who is who” list of architects consultants and project managers who fed out of this project. An area of leakage no doubt.
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Stephen were those the insights or are you going to come back and give us more?
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@Alive to God you assume that every “ex-member” is telling lies, but sadly there is more evidence to support their claims than your “defense of the Realm”. Something rotten has been going down for a long long time, as the people around the top table gorged themselves on the people’s giving of funds and time and effort.
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L, you need to zip it, your a disgrace..sounding very much like an offended xmember…well weren’t you privy to all this info…or perhaps making it up as you go along….I’m sure you did well out of victory…take the money..and give your kiss and tell story… shame on you.
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Anonymous, you must be a talking head for the Hade’s because it is VERY CLEAR you know very little and were not included in the inner clique of the church. You need to zip it. I have personally seen them cheat people’s wages, dodge creditors, pay for things under the table and generally lie to people that were supposedly their friends at the top. And don’t even get me started about Gerry Byrne gossiping about private conversations where he counseled members. (If you have ever confessed to adultery to Gerry in private – sorry, it wasn’t. He’d tell all of us that worked there.)
There was an angle to everything. How can we make money off of FAS, pre-school, asylum seekers, the neighborhood etc. .. Cell groups were to bring in extra cash and keep people away from Brendan. He’d get irritated when people wanted his guidance. It was always, “go see your cell leader about that”. Surely you remember when he as the pastor, thought it was ok to have the church watch his hip hop dance club perform an inappropriate little number during the CHRISTMAS service. That was a few years ago and in that same service he never mentioned Jesus once or even a salvation message – he has surely lost the plot. (did get a tithe message from Gerry though)
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Alive to God, i sense you are genuine in your thoughts, but the problem is that the Hades will not agree with you at all. They openly welcome the likes of Benny Hinn, creflo dollar and Jesse Duplantis to name but a few. They willingly hired out the church as part of a business strategy, not solely due to the pressure of the banks. It’s a cop out to blame the banks and not take responsibility. No one forced them into debt, they chose it for they church and chose to open up the sanctity of God’s holy house to such nonsense as Jedward, shaking their stuff on the same stage where worship takes place – that’s disgraceful stuff for a church to allow. Victory completely prostituted itself out in anyway that it could and because of that revenue removed their Charity status and they lost the building.
if you give your church to the heathen part time for financial gain, don’t be surprised when the heathen eventually takes over the building. If you give yourself a little to Satan, he will take the rest too.
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it is not only the visiting preachers are greedy, but the ones that are running the church as well…..can’t you see or you blind??
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sorry, I don’t think we can afford them now!
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Angie, Believe me my trust is in God alone…there is no one like our God, not one. Not all visiting preachers coming to Victory are greedy…your right though…there should be no greedy preachers coming..it’s time to say no..when they ask to come..Angie I don’t like greedy preachers.. and I think we can afford them now!
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Alive to God:
You seem unaware of anything that was going on in Victory. You still put your trust in them and I find this strange considering it must be obvious they see the church tithe as a way of getting rich. Is it God you have blind faith in or the Hades and Byrne? I suppose you might say ‘Forgive them for they know not what they do’, however, I believe they know full well what they do as they stored up some nice properties for themselves while the money was rolling in. They have some cheek to run a church at all and certainly do not deserve to begin another one. Prosperity churches should be banned! They seem to attract very greedy preachers.
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Misty..thank you for your response…regarding the building of Victory Firhouse..I am unaware of anyone giving their life savings or anything like that..we did sow seeds to buy seats..and we were glad to do it, the idea was for certain buildings to be sold and a dept free church..but as we know this has not happened…partly due to down turn in property value..and bad advice. …but Misty can’t a Pastor have a vision or dream…to build a place for worship, and have plenty of space for children’s church and youth church…when I see the quality and beauty of the young people… enjoying coming to church..it blesses me…When we were in the city centre…everyone especially the children were squashed, and having to have 3 Services on Sundays to cater for the people attending church… As for the court case..we will have to wait and see, of course we are hoping for a good result and praying … one thing is for sure we are in unity of spirit..joined in the bond of peace…
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Alive to God, I accept your comments…perhaps you should be discerning about if you stay with Victory or not. If lessons were learnt and things will change, Hades and Byrne need to publicly acknowledge their mistakes and not try to hide things from their people or the world. Wrong doing does happen, but it is what you do about it that counts and so far I have not heard of anyone testifying to the hades and byrne repenting. Going to court to find justice only prolongs things. If they acknowledge their errors and humbling approach the financiers etc…one would think things would be worked out without a battle in court.
None the less, saying they did these things because of pressure from the banks….this is a cope out…..as a church they should have never gone into debt to build a state of the art building they call a “church” and bleed followers of their savings and some cases their life savings. A church should have been built in a humble manor and from 90% cash not the other way around.
We were at a meeting one Sunday evening several years ago when they were downtown Dublin, where there was an American Man speaking etc. When it came to the offering, he mentioned that at the last church he only got $500 and surely the people there could do better with their tithing to help defray his costs. This was brought to the attention of the Hades and they saw nothing wrong with this approach……we think it was a disgrace and no matter what message he brought it was never remembered due to his selfish way in asking for support.
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Regarding the ‘Celebrity Pastors’ with their jets…and sow your 92$ or whatever amount..for God to bless you..I have no time for them.. they have done a lot of damage to the Body of Christ for sure. Just because I choose to give my tithe..does not mean I support the ‘prosperity Gospel’ .. I give according the the Word.. Honouring God with my substance… I give cheerfully…not so that God will bless me…as His child, I am already blessed. Our lives should be a life of giving to others..helping those in need and so on… resulting in a fulfilled life.
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Thank you for your points and Scriptures given…and yes I agree that the House of God should not be be a house of trade… to my understanding the church was hired out because of pressure from the bank…but it was a great pity this happened.. this was not what the House of God should be…. its ment for worship and ministering the Word of God. This error will never happen again…may the Lord have Mercy on all concerned. Because I speak love and support for my church does’t mean my heart is not broken by what was done…and the present situation…I am a strong Christian, and maybe I can come across proud..but really I’m a humble at heart, and I do believe lessons have been learned the hard way…. what more can I say…
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Compare this with prosperity preachers who visit a church with the purpose of placing a financial burden on a church as they deem that burden to be a “seed”. They do not preach without burden or “free of charge” as Paul did because they require a donation from the churches they visit. How many visiting prosperity preachers do you see that insist on paying their own way and refuse to take offerings? Not many i would wager. Perhaps they feel that Paul has erred and they have a deeper revelation than Paul had
Instead of these so called preachers declaring to a church that they will not be a financial burden, instead they come declaring nonsense such as God neeing them to support their divorce (BH) or God needing them to fund their new Jet or TV Stations (JD)
If these preachers are to be believed then God is more concerned with giving preachers Jets and big houses than his about taking care of orphans and widows and feeding the poor.
Thankfully the slot machine representation of the Gospel is now shown to be the heresy that it is as the recession has proved that there is little or no return on investment to the donations given to organisations like Victory.
The prosperity gospel is a self serving heresy whereby the focus is taken off Jesus and put on one’s self for the purposes of obtaining a blessing from God. Jesus told us to give up everything, take up his cross and follow him. Prosperity churches tell Jesus they will follow him as long as he gives them everything and when they do give to him, they expect it to be returned several fold.
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It seems that Alive to God has gone very quiet since the Victory opponents started raising scripture to support their stand. Alive was very vocal as was Rudy until scripture started to raise it’s head and then went back into the shadows again. It says a lot about a Church like Victory when members are only willing to get involved in a debate about their church as long as they are not challenged by scripture. At least Alive to God is amicable though unlike Rudy who responds with vulgarity when challenged scripturally.
It’s disappointing that Victory posters propose that they “love the word of God” yet seem unknowledgable about certain aspects of it and very uncomfortable discussing it with Christians from outside Victory. No doubt if the focus was on offering and tithing scriptures they would have a vast array of knowledge and experience. Sadly Churches such as Victory don’t teach on scripture that makes them uncomfortable therefore they gloss over such topics. Unless members make a concerted effort to study such scripture themselves they will lack understanding of these scriptures.
The Hades are not going to do bible studies on scriptures they openly violate.
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Also in reference to 1 Timothy 3:5, why was it acceptable for Victory to bring in Benny Hinn to preach while he was going through divorce proceedings after his extra marrital relationship with Paula White? Victory was willing to overlook his scriptural disqualification due to his personality and fame. Not only that but he took up offerings which he said went towards his divorce costs, a fact made even more outrageous considering that he remarried his wife again after the divorce was finalized.
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@The watchman on the wall, i have no problem with bi-vocation to support one’s self but Paul would not have sold tents in the churches he visited as that would be a conflict of interest and he himself said to the Corinthians that he was not a burden to anyone and brought supplies of what he needed. This is in stark contrast to modern day prosperity preachers who come to raise funds from Churches all with the promise a return on every investment such as Jessie Duplantis telling people that if they are beleiving for a car, they should give an offering towards his jet as a transport seed. Have you ever been to a victory service where almost all guest ministers open up the services by trying to sell their books, CDs and DVDs? How can that possibly be justified – opening up a sermon by selling your wares. Let’s not forget people like Ivan Tait who will also give you a “personal prophesy” inscribed if you buy one of his book -buy my book get a prophesy included! We may not have temples any more in the traditional sense, but the same Jesus who said “do not make my Father’s house a place of trade” would be unhappy with people trading during actual church services, never mind people trading so called miracles and prophesy for financial gain.
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The Starbucks is being blamed, but I seriously doubt it is the reason.
Almost every main street in Ireland has a shop run by a charity. Most churches have halls which they are more than happy to rent out to help pay their way. A number of other churches also have crèches, coffee shops and restaurants from run from their buildings. The mosque in Clonskeagh even has a butchers which supplies quality Irish meat far cheaper than the other local butchers.
But, none of these churches had Revenue come along and remove their Charity Status and what it more it appears they backdated its removal. It was not a slap on the wrist with a warning for putting 30K of rent into the wrong box on a form and having to pay them back a few thousand. Something far more serious must have happened.
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@anonymous it would appear the Charity Commissioners agree with you too and if what VCF say is true the running of a branded coffee house lost them their status and a whole heap of funds. However on a note of caution we do not now have a temple system so lets not go religious about builidngs where we worship, if someone has a coffee morning to raise funds for missions for example should we object?
The real issue is the corrupt nature of the business dealinsg we are seeing. By contrast St Paul made exceedingly good tents we presume and also sold them for a fair price, and yet we would never say to a pastor dont bi-vocate in fact until there is enough work to engaged a pastor should he in fact not support himself?
From what I have seen and read the problem is that Hade , Byrne and others felt above the law of the state and took the antinomian view that they were ” free to sin” rather than the view that we are ” free from sin”.
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Alive to God, i will give you the benefit of the doubt as so far you have avoid directly scriptural analysis of the circumstances of Victory. You seem uncomfortable when the church is challenged scripturally so your thoughts would be welcome. Also, i am not DI just a Christian poster on here so the DI stance of this blog being a human rights forum has no bearing on my view that we need to view the situation scripturally. I would expect any proponent of VCF to take scripture on board and discuss rather than continuously avoid the scriptures as they highlight issues.
Lets take some examples of scripture already highlight to you which you have avoided to respond to.
According to Matthew 21:12 and John 2:14-25, Jesus was greatly angered by Business trading in the house of God and whipped them out of the temple. In John 2:17 he also said
Jesus clearly did not agree with Business being conducted in the house of God and did not tolerate this. Why then should we as Christians tolerate a ministry like Victory that continually operates business within the house of God such as creches, cafes, restaurants etc and even rents out the temple to secular and heathen events – purely for financial gain. That is an outrage when balanced against the scriptures related to the money changers in the temple. If Jesus would not justify this behaviour, why Alive to God do you try and justify this unchristlike method of operation. Even the Galway branh of Victory regularly turns their church into an indoor market called a “Jumble Sale”, allowing people to buy and sell from the very same place of worship where they stand before God on a Sunday. Jesus does not tolerate this but Victory members happily tolerate this as the Pastors require this for financial purposes
Brendan and Sheila clearly have a lot of personal financial issues with mounting debt due to bad business decisions and also the issues with Brian who went astray for a long time and suddenly was let back into the inner circle of the church without so much as a thought from the Hades. Let’s not also forget their well known falling out with Fiona. If Brendan and Sheila cannot get their own house and family in order and manage it correctly, they are scripturally disqualified from managing the house of God. Timothy discusses in depth the requirements of a minister and 1 Tim 3:5 is only one area where Brendan and Sheila fall down (You only have to look at Brian and Fiona to see this)
Alive to God, in light of these 2 scriptures how can you justify your position of support for the business dealings of Victory and the position of the Hades as leaders of Victory?
If you truly love the word of God as you say you do, you will take this on board and respond accordingly rather than ignoring scripture just because the Hades are nice people or that Victory members walk in love. While that may be true, it is an irrelvancy in light of this discussion right now.
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This appears to be the villa: http://www.ownersdirect.co.uk/portugalb/P4699.htm
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Where are the new posts DI? ..I can’t find them.
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No I haven’t DI ..I will check it out..
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I assume you have seen new post Scam of God? It outlines further business dealings while people are engaged in ministry. Oil and water.
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DI, yes I understand..I will do as requested. As you can understand most of my posts are to shed light and truth on whats been said on this Forum…theres a lot of pulling down…and I don’t think that I have been ranting and raving like some… after all this situation in my church effects me personally…to listen to some…you would think they were being effected personally…then maybe they are!. most likely xmember..that didn’t finish the couse…for whatever reason… maybe in position of leadership that was not God ordained…but only you DI know the person behind the Anonymous ..and thats ok of course…
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Not sharing scripture but answering people ask about scripture relevant to the posts
DI
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DI …I am sorry I love the Word of God…….I will of course share some Scripture in future dialogue..when the need arises..thank you.
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You are off on a tangent again Alive Alive O. This is a human rights forum and we address things from a human rights perspective. That does not stop Anon from asking you pertinent Christian questions. You tend to be very vague when someone comes at you with biblical knowledge!
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DI has made it known that this Forum is not Christian..but an arena for dialogue. It is a human rights Forum. Your posts would make one wonder..is this your own personal attack on Victory..
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Is that your response to people who quote relevant scripture “You should calm down” How about discussing the merits of the scriptures either referenced directly or aluded to on this thread like any open minded christian would.
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Anonymous.. I think you should calm down… you seem a bit upset.
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DI…point taken.
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I hope you are not delusional? Why should a victim lie to us?
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It’s not about Brian ministering from the pulpit, it’s about the dodgy business and personal dealings in the background. If pastor brendan cannot get his own house in order what business does he have trying to get the house of God in order.
1 Timothy 3:5 “If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?”
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Ah your so quick to jump in..it’s true certain people are not in victory this year 2013.. but as I said that is past… there is no shortage of good God fearing, humble people in Victory church, who are great support and encouragement to the Body of Christ.. thats true.
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Anonymous…wow I never heard anyone was upset … I haven’t seen Brian minister…sitting in the front…doesn’t count as ministering..and I’m sure I would have noticed..as I never sleep in church… now that is a fact!
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I hope you are not representing the Church in court. What an outlandish self contradiction in only a few posts. How can anyone believe what you say when you post such conflicting posts depending on who you speak to.
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” Mark Fennell, who looked like he was being groomed for the job as left. Who is left?”
Mr. you must be lying because Alive to God has categorically denied that any leader has left and called another poster as “talking a load of rubbish” for suggesting this. Perhaps alive to God also believes you are talking a load of rubbish and will deny this happened. A lot of people are in the church are pretty upset about the way Brian came swanning back in like the prodigal son and he has certainly not helped the cause of the current problems but rather the church is slowly waking up to the realization that Brian is part of the problem not part of the solution. Brendan and Sheila are risking the welfare of the entire church with Brian.
Anyway enough of our lies, no one left Victory. If only we could be honest like Alive to God. It’s hard to seek truth that will set you free when you don’t speak the truth Alive. Shame on you for misrepresenting the situation. What a great witness to others!
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Anonymous..people leave.. thats past, as I said we are moving forward …if you were in victory..at any service, you would see and experience anointed people of God that pray and minister with power…as I said we are strong… all Glory belongs to the Lord.
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@ Alive to God,
Who do you see as the Pastors of Victory in the future? Pastors Brendan, Sheila and Gerry are all getting on in years and can’t keep going forever. Mark Fennell, who looked like he was being groomed for the job as left. Who is left? The prodigal son Brian, who was never talked about, but suddenly turned up to quickly rise through the ranks?
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You seem to be forgetting some very key people that have left within the last 2 years. I won’t name names on here but it is disgraceful and dishonest of you to suggest that no one left Victory during that period. Again i ask you, did Abundant Life come out of the challenge. They were people of strong faith they were moving forward and they were a great encouragement to many and were a part of the body of Christ. The truth will set you free, i’m not trying to be bitter but open the eyes of many that read this. Your eyes are not for opening – you have mad e that abundantly clear but others are seeking truth. Have to genuinely asked God to reveal the truth of the situation to you however hurtful it may be to you or have you just asked God to shut the mouths of all those who speak against or disagree with Victory. Rather than telling God what he should think or what he should do, start asking him what he thinks and ask him what you should do.
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Anonymous ..Your talking a load of rubbish…the Leadership in Victory have not left the church…we are waxing strong…sorry to disappoint you!… we are people of faith…that we will come out of this challenge, yes there will be changes…we are moving forward. And yes this church was a great encouragement and still is to many Christians churches… you sound bitter that great good will come out of our challenge…we are part of the Body of Christ…embracing the full Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ…what a pity your mind is so bent to cause hurt to this Body of great saints… when you could put your energy to speak out about whats happening to our beautiful nation…same sex marriages and abortion..which should be major concerns to all Christians.
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If people read back over the comments from Abundant Life members on the Sanford articles they now seem extremely naive and foolish in hindsight. There is a fair chance that several years from now those looking back over these Victory articles will see the comments from Rudy,Miriam,Nonymous, Alive to God, etc as naive and very foolish also while retrospectively looking back on what will unfold for Victory. The naivety and foolishness in the Abundant Life comments was rooted in the arrogance that God would show them to be right and redeem the church in the face of persecution. These Victory posters now display the same arrogance that God is completely for Victory, the irony being that God is for the members individually just not the body of Victory corporately. Thankfully the move of God does not begin or end with Victory in Ireland but members of that Church see themselves at the pinnacle and forefront of the move of God in Ireland hence why they think they are under attack from “satan”.
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A discerning sheep will follow THE good shepherd. A weak and undiscerning sheep will follow any supposedly “good” shepherd. What is clear here is that many who have recently left these churches had discernment that things were not right. When the congregation starts to leave, it’s noticeable enough but when the leadership starts quitting then something is seriously wrong. When the scandal later hits it should then be visible to the congregation that the leadership who left were probably privy to things they were not hence why they left. It’s no secret about who in leadership left VCF in the last while and therefore no coincidence that all of the details are now in the public domain. It was said to me by those in the know that the exact same thing happened in Abundant Life, several important members of the leadership left there, people did not know why and those who i know from that church became suspicious when the leadership began to quit one after one and a short while later the church completely folded due to financial mismanagement and the suspicions were finally confirmed despite the protestations from the Sanfords that everyone was fine and God would gave them the victory – exactly what the Hades have been saying and proclaiming.
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@The watchman on the wall, you misunderstood me. I believe that God did help, but not in the way that Abundant Life expected it and he will help VCF members just not in the way they expect. God rescued many people from Abundant Life and he has already done the same for many in Victory over the last 2 years as evident by the drop in numbers and leadership. Many such as “Alive to God” are crying out for an answer from God but they don’t stop to think about the possibility that they answer they will receive is exactly what they don’t want to hear. What if the answer to their prayers to forcibly bring the leadership of VCF to a place of humility by taking away their church and if they still don’t humble themselves and change their ways then by altogether taking their congregation. The Sanfords lost their premises in Galway, going from Hotel to Hotel, they still would not humble themselves and eventually they lost their entire congregation despite non stop prayer and fasting from the entire Abundant Life church. Kevin Sanford himself said on the audio recording of the handover service to Brendan that he had fasted and prayed for 40 days 3 times in the previous year and reached a point where he could not do it anymore as God wasn’t answering his prayers therefore he reflected that he probably wasn’t praying God’s will.
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@ anonymous ” if God would not help ” is a bit presumptious in its construct. Nobody know,s what God has already done and will do to help. He is a very present help in time of need , the question is will anyone listen and anyone heed what He suggests.
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Alive to God, your rhetoric is very reminscient of the Abundant Life members who posted on here in their droves to declare their impending victory against all the naysayers – God is faithful, we are growing, the pastors are wonderful, etc. A few months later the church no longer existed and the flock dispersed far and wide.You conveniently choose to forget the not so distant past and what happened with Abundant Life and the Sanfords and somehow you are now following the same naive train of thought as the Abundant Life congregation who refused to acknowledge that anything bad would befall their church – “with god on our side who can be against us”, etc.
What will it take for you to realise the fallacy that is rife within Victory church. Abundant Life was almost a complete carbon copy of Victory in every way including the debt issue, court cases and recievership that eventually caused the church to fold. Do you beleive that Victory is better than Abundant Life or that the Hades can somehow work a miracle where the Sanfords could not. If God would not help Abundant Life, you are very presumptious to assume that God will rescue VCF.
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If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it usually is a duck.
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Nonymous… just to share a few thoughts…you say you sat in the front row and slept… I have my doubts, if you did you showed lack of respect and also learned nothing to benefit your life or the lives of others..and you would never be in leadership…because you can’t give out what you don’t have…one would wonder why you bothered getting out of bed at all!
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.@ nonymous I refute your assertion that I am trying to she myself to be ” better ” than others . I understand the mechanics of budgeting and that churches need funding. My contention is that the properity agenda is corrosive and corrupting, and the fact that you could feel it better to sleep than participate speaks volumes as to how it impacted you
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Anonymous, I’m glad you are happy in your new ‘healthy church’ … I’m sure we are still missing you… Our Services are healthy too…continued growth…healings and salvations…we give God the Glory!
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Put not your trust in princes! You look at the minor errors in reports, but before your guys are next in court we know they keep changing lawyers to frustate justice. When dealing with other believers’ you should follow 1 Cor 6 and follow Matt 18. Stop following men without proper boundaries and start coming to reality.
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All I know is newspaper that printed errors ….will be more careful before they print same again…
DI … hope your contact is not OTT fibber!
When the truth comes out in the courts.. you may then understand why I stand firm…
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Thank you for this well considered comment. We will be publishing the latest reports, and you can believe what you read as the persons making charges have personally told me their story
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Alive to God, it is ironic to tell people not to believe everything they read when you seem to believe everything you are told by the ministry of Victory. There are plenty of people like myself who questioned what we were told when it did not balance with scripture and thankfully we now find ourselves in balanced healthy churches when the church we left behind falls deeper into scandal and bringing the name of Jesus into disrepute across Ireland. It’s one thing for the leadership to do this but for shame to the christians that continue to support such a church. Victory has become an embarassment to the Christian community in Ireland and everyone except those within the Victory franchise recognises the pitfalls of the church and long saw these events coming.
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Ah Laura…don’t feel sorry for me! I am very happy and blessed to be part of this ministry..and don’t believe everything you read…
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What acts do you refer to that the courts aren’t aware of?
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These people are nothing but thieves and I know for a fact that they take money, they don’t pay workers that they hire to do jobs and are well deserved to go to jail.. They own countless houses and churches and have many followers and I very much so feel sorry for those that attend their church. Giving out the wrong gospel and using their tithes and offerings in an unworthy manner! They’re unfaithful to their church and should be put Straight in jail for their acts that the court aren’t even aware of!
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@watchman on the wall, you assumed wrong – I was never in a leadership capacity. I doubt they even noticed me. I just said I sat on the front row and you immediately assumed I was in a leadership capacity. Shall I assume that you’re one of those who believe some people in the church are higher than others and the higher ones sit at the front? Because that seems to be precisely how you draw assumptions.
I never said “the church had the capacity” but failed because ”we couldnt half fill the room”. That’s selective distortion. I said the church had the ‘potential’ to pay its debts but could not because of lack of accountability and a cloud of secrecy which made people reluctant to give.
If you built a 3000 seat church, I’m assuming you have a vision to win souls and you’re preparing a place where they would assemble with the brethren and be ministered to. But if you’re not able to fill half the room on Sunday even with new members adding every week, that suggests there may be something wrong with the church. In our case, people were leaving as they were coming and a lot of people were not exactly looking forward to Sunday service. I exemplified this by stating I slept my way during service. I’m not surprised you didn’t understand me because you seem more interested in showing that you’re a better Christian than the rest of us and that your church is better than ours. This is precisely the problem with Christians.
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The victory sister church in Galway, Victory Galway also disagrees with Jesus’ viewpoint on this as they turn their church into a “Jumble Sale” indoor market a few times a year in order to make money. Abundant Life did the same before them and they were soon wiped from existence. Beware those that test the Lord and his scriptures for self gain.
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@nonymous the comment above ending with ” I am not head of that queue” is from me.
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@ nonymous, Jesus whipped the business traders out of the temple, scattered their money and then over turned their tables – all in righteous anger. Clearly you think the son of God was in error as his notion of Church does not meet with yours. If Jesus felt Church was no place to conduct business then i’m willing to abide with that. How many ministers in Victory have you seen open up their sermons by advertising and selling their books and CDs? The answer is almost all of them without fail. Thankfully i am now in a church that reaches people and impacts lives without the need to prostitute its services for financial gain either for the church or visiting ministers, a church that quietly passes around a bucket without so much as a mention of the offering and incredibly still operates debt free without the congregation being hounded for 10 to 15 mins with the same tithing rhetoric and scriptures everyweek. We are able to pay the bills and remain debt free as you suggest and do not need to give the church over to money changers in order to do so. Victory is not able to pay it’s bills nor is it debt free therefore might i suggest that Victory has so far failed to live up to it’s hopeful ideas based on it’s previous operating model. This is a great chance to repent and change but people like you hold dearly to the old un Christlike ways of doing things. The recievers fulfilled the place of Jesus by driving the money changers out of Firhouse – The Lord works in mysterious ways!
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@ nonymous I was speaking about your description of “the church had the capacity” but you then say it failed because ” we couldnt half fill the room”. This is the old bums on seats equation of church planting, were surveys seek to get a mix of A level and B level people in order to do God’s business. Of course we have to pay our way, and we should even leave the ox unmuzzled that threads out the corn, but what is teh vision? A big building full of people we can fleece? As you rightly describe yourself as asleep on the front row I assume you were in a leadership capacity . You were not the only one asleep, and while you were sleeping someone preyed on God people. Surely somone must have asked about the investments that were being made in the now infamous ” pie in the sky” project. Me naive ? I dont think I am in the head of that quque.
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@watchman on the wall, don’t be naive. A church doesn’t reach the world or operate ‘on a prayer’ (pun intended). It’s got bills to pay and programs to finance. It’s got to be able to pay its bills and be debt-free. I wasn’t suggesting a church as a business proposition. And by the way, when I speak of ‘the right stuff to attract passionate sensible Christians’, I’m talking about the right boat, right net and right leadership to ‘fish’ men as Jesus told Peter he would do.
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Alive to God how long have you been in victory..That may be true but the truth is alive to God that this church has brought disgrace to the name of Jesus its what happens when their is a lack of accountability. Have you read in scripture how Church leaders are judged more severly. also Jesus said you know disciples by their fruits. Hade and byrne need to step down and repent and possibly be restored if its Gods will.
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That should of course read ” lively” stones.
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@ nonymous re your comment ” that church had the potential to pay its debt if properly administered and had the right stuff to attract passionate sensible Christians”. That is the whole problem the church is not a business proposition, but is a collective gathering of Born Again believers called to fulfill the commission of reaching the world for Christ. When we use business models rather than “liable stones fitted together” the result will be carnality.
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Anonymous, .. over the years I have seen people from all walks of life getting help in victory.. I remember one time woman from another nation coming with a small child, she said she had nowhere to live. Pastors got her a place.. and they lived there for some years.. there were many others who were helped.. this has been my experience..
My understanding of the hospitality suite..is that it’s for people visiting for the first time, and it was usually crowded. I’m sorry this homeless man was hurt…also I myself would ring hostels looking for a place for a homeless person, I’d even pay the taxi for them, but sometimes they wouldn’t go, I know many found it hard living in hostels…..
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alive to God victory treat people like dirt they used them.picture this a homeless man got saved and went into the hospitality sweet two or three times for tea and the pastors kicked him out, saying to others that he was bringing down the look of the place this is just one example of many of their attitude. would Jesus do this no He wouldnt He would have had breakast with that guy who subsequently got deeply hurt by that and left.
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Now if you slept in an african church …the usher..or even the pastor would give you such a telling off…you’d be shaking in your shoes, so word has it…Awake now and rise up to your destiny!!
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Nonymous..only half full on Sunday mornings, you must have gone to the early service..the second service was usually packed full… Yes a debt free church …… that was part of the vision. All we can do is prayerfully wait and see. ….. …
Now you have me laughing..hahaa..taking a nap ..and in the front row too!!
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Yes we lost a lot of good people over the years, but for different reasons…one being ..what we can’t mention..but we have moved on from there! …and yes many gifted people left with their hands hanging. But there are still many gifted and Godly people in victory that are and always have been tithers and givers, many docters and professionals..they always have words of encouragement..I love them so much.
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If anyone truly believes that the Hades acquired all of these wealth from victory christian fellowship, then I have a 2,800ft mountain around my hometown of Newcastle to sell you. They may have benefited in some ways directly or indirectly, but the church did not produce the capacity most people assume it did.
Infact I would argue that their strategy of batting people on the head with Malachi 3:10-12 while maintaining a cloud of secrecy and no accountability has proven to be wrong-headed. That church had the potential to pay its debt if it was properly administered and if it had the right stuff to attract passionate, committed and sensible Christians. But we could not even fill half the hall on a sunday morning. I sat on the front row for years but always managed to catch a good nap after praise and worship. Hihihihihihihi. Because there was no transparency, people were always suspicious and reluctant to give; the leaders surrounded themselves with yes men and alienated rather than use the gifted people in the house who dared to challenge them. And when good people who have served diligently (for FREE) over many years leave the church for some reason, there is no attempt to bring them back. We lost a lot of really good people. You cannot sustain a ministry like that – not in Ireland.
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Yeah. I am waiting for those insights too. I have a personal experience of that school and allegations of abuse are anything but true. But hey, I am waiting for your insights and those documents DI requested from X Member. Hihihihihi.
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Stephen
what are your insights then?
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Also, a former student in the school. Happy to provide some insights.
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Apologies
I automatically answered a request and left the thought process in my head. Re- Christian ministry…If we aren’t careful the list of characteristics required in Christian ministry could read like a shopping list and yet we can’t pick and choose what we like from the list found in 1 Thes 2. We must not only have all but look for all these characteristics in others. That’s not up for negotiation they are not incidental additions to our life . When we are in a place of leadership (and remember, that means we are a servant to the Church) it is demanded that we have these attributes so that we do not harm the Church but bring glory to God. It is without doubt that pastors and their desire for wealth are causing harm as are we if money including our lack of it becomes our idol. In this case there is the suggestion that tithes and offerings were mis-used, greed and deception became a characteristic and this harms the Church. That should be your focus, not whether we can overlook it because the wrong doer is nice and has done a lot of good works.
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Dear X Member,
I met a person who was involved with this school, and would be grateful if you could expand your comment by sending us a word document with further insights. Your IP suggests you are in Ireland so also tell us how this affected your life and your journey into third level!
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I am an ex student of the victory school – now shut down
I witnessed children who were “paddled” (corporal punishment) by the pastor.
“What is done in the dark is revealed in the light”
To the remaining victory followers, is this the Christian way?
Put your fighting on hold until the Victory trustees names are cleared.
You are now the innocent victims just as I once was.
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I do remember an article in the Sunday Indepedent’s LIFE magazine where a car was mentioned. Was it a BMW? I assume the boat and the helicopter are also not true. Note you are trying to divert from the main issue.
Looking at the molehill rather than the mountain.
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What castle this is more white house talk
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The hades son never had a lamborghine . Talk is cheap .
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– Is it not greedy to accumulate a massive property porfolio including castles, watching your son whizz around in a lamborghini and constantly focus on tithing and offering, also suggesting that the church “dig deep” in order to help with the debt caused by the leadership. Westland Row was fine, it was greedy to want BIGGER and BETTER
Are the Hades and the Byrnes a financial burden to the Church members right now? Who pays for their lifestyle? Why did the Hades burden the church with the costs for the castle rather than paying the dues on the castle themselves?
Telling people there is no issue, hiding the revenue problem and then having to contradict with the truth when the receivership was pending. Sure, that’s sounds pure and honest. Or do you believe that this only pertains to the believer and that’s it’s not required towards the non-believer – It’s not like we’re supposed to be examples of Christ to the world and let our light shine before men!
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Is that the best you can do Cary?
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characteristics of true Christian ministry
1 Thessalonians 2
Verse A Godly Minister …
2:3 Speaks the truth and has pure motives in doing so.
2:4 Seeks to please God, not people.
2:5 Does not flatter; is not greedy.
2:6 Does not seek people’s praise.
2:7 Is gentle, like a mother caring for her children.
2:8 Loves the believers and willingly shares his life and the gospel with them.
2:9 Works hard so as not to be a burden to anyone while preaching the Good News.
2:10 Is pure, honest, and faultless toward the believers.
2:11 Treats the believers as a good father would treat his own children.
2:12 Willingly pleads, encourages, and urges the believers to live in a way that God would consider worthy.
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Alles von die beste
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By the way we have removed your personal attacks and venom. Do a read on James and the mouth wash!
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Alles von die beste Rudy Toetsiens
Do send us some and we can add them!
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why is no body talking about gerry byrne and his family? No mention of his church in wesland row? NO photosof his our his families properties>Why is this is this an attack on paster hade and his Wife .
Could some one answer that …..Rudy
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This is ironic. The very nature of the blog is have different opinions. That is the easy bit.
The bit you do not get is as following:
Let us then do a little bible study? Outline the passages about Christian leadership or if we have any bible students on line perhaps someone will outline the characteristics from the bible for us both.
How about this one this morning?
Luke 16:13. ” no servant can serve two masters , for either he will hate one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon ( material possessions and wealth ) .
That is the problem knowing them does not answer what does the bible say about it?
We are not attacking anyone, but providing a service to the public on the basis of evidence that has come into the public domain as well as the testimony of those who have contacted us anonymously.Knowing the people personally is irrelevant to the issues at hand. I did meet Pastor Hade many moons ago.
Of course we will come back that is what this forum is for. However, what you are indicating you do not have the bottle to reply to questions asked.
We are not arguing but debating whether it is appropriate for a person serving God can at the same time be engaged in a variety of business enterprises and be an effective Pastor. The last few weeks have proved they can’t. Also biblically they have turned a ministry into a business and used a Charitable entity to hide behind. That bubble has burst. Also I have direct evidence of pastors of Victory while in a pastoral role when a person is vulnerable using that influence to get member’s to hand over large sums of money. This will be in the public domain in due course so you will be able to authenticate what I am saying. The stuff going on about the Receivers is not criminal in nature, but commercial. However, it does show a lack of financial and spiritual awareness.
I will leave the public to answer that one.
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anonymous
“I know the pastors in a very personal way I know they fit into it but yet again you are attacking people you don’t know”
Your statement is interesting….I DO KNOW the Hades and we did approach them at one time with regards to the way they were pressing folks about tithing and giving money to Victory….We pointed out that they were accountable to the people and should open their books so everyone could see where the money went …. and this is based on Biblical instruction….Where there is hidden money or secrets and no accountability to the people of the church their usually is deceit. We even asked to see the records and were told by the Hades the only ones who had access to the accounts and information re funding and disbursing of funds were the Hades and Gerry Byrne. So there you have it from someone who does know these people. And yes we found the Hades to be very nice folks but not always up front and hid things from their followers. So bearing that in mind, we suggested they change to be more open, but they refused and thus you have this situation now. It is really unfortunate and could all have been prevented if things were done openly and according to the law of Ireland.
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I have read the bible about what it means to be in Christian ministry and as I know the pastors in a very personal way I know they fit into it but yet again you are attacking people you don’t know. And no doubt you will come back with an answer to that because that what you love to do is argue with people about situations you know very little about. This is going to be last post I write on this website because I have come to realise that you don’t like people having a different opinion to you. And may be the only really cult out there might just be dialogue Ireland.
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i hope these so called false pastors go under you people in victory are deceived like i was for 2 to 3 yrs..wake up and smell the coffee..they are nothing but capitalists.they wont escape the judgment of God
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A lot of the Houses pictured here have nothing to do with anybody related to the hades our the hades themselves , you might as well put a photo of the white house and say its belonging to the Trustess!!!!Its all a load of lies and the truth will come out , and it will be good .
Go on the Dubs!!!1
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No you dont get it i think you need to get a life!!!!
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You still do not get it do you and you go missing when asked a few questions and reappear like as if nothing had happened.
Please read the passages in the bible on being in Christian ministry and report back.
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@anon what we are reading is absolutly unbelievable.
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How many other people was able to buy property during the time of the Celtic tiger? And have still got their property and is able to rent them to finish paying the mortgage on them even though they themselves are struggling I can think of least 5 yet somehow that’s considered to be ok, yet two people who has been working hard for the last 20 years to help build and strengthen the kingdom of God. Are being put down for having businesses outside the church and doing the same thing. And I would also like to point out that their sons properties are no way related to the pastors again this is just the media way of making thing sound bigger than they are the headlines suggests that it’s the pastors who own 31 properties where in fact it’s 31 properties between 6 different people
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If you believe all you read your a sad man. They do work hard , and dont steal money !!!!!! Mixster have you any proof to back up your claim !!! Every body no that sunday world is a rag mag full of lies !!!!!!
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Luke 16:13. ” no servant can serve two masters , for either he will hate one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon ( material possessions and wealth ) .
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if you work hard at stealing peoples livelihoods to feather your own nest this is disgusting and flies in the face of any God they should go to prison
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Yes…. That’s the worlds way of looking at it. I imagine the Lord had honesty and integrity in mind! proverbs 13:4 comes to mind The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied.
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If you work hard you get rewards!!!1
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