A Course in Miracles or cultism?

Dialogue Ireland does not actually take a view as to whether the beliefs of the ACIM represent Religion or a Philosophy. Also whether they are opposed to another religion, whether they are heretical from a Catholic perspective or from an Evangelical point of view they are unbiblical is not our issue. We are concerned when we receive requests for support from families of persons who seem to have lost the plot. Whereas they were emotionally available and could be part of a family and the give and take that involves, now they find the person is withdrawn on another planet so to speak. They are also atomised believing they are no longer an incarnate being, but rather a separate gnostic spiritual individual with no connectedness to their wife, husband, daughter or son. To use an illustration. They were like honey from a honey comb deeply interrelated to those around them in their family or community. They still retained their individuality, but that was not a problem at that point. Now they are like individual marbles which are in a box and the box is dropped and the individual marbles go all over the place. They have no deep rooted connectivity and seem to be victims of a kind of DOS attack.

There seems then to be some influence and people involved seem to lack coherence and grounding in reality?

What is your experience?

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 https://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/category/cultism/

Here is their International site:

facim_home_acimbook-150x150facim-header

http://www.facim.org/

Here is their Irish site. Go and look around. Non duality, similar to the School of Philosophy, ascension like the The Mystery School of Religion, and the parallels continue…………

http://acim.ie/

A Course in Miracles-Ireland

A Course in Miracles-Ireland

 A Course In Miracles is not a religion.    A Course in Miracles is a non-dualistic spirituality. There is no other spirituality that combines a nondualistic metaphysics with the very sophisticated psychology one finds in this “Course”.

Michael seems to pop up all over the country and again we invite people to comment on his role and to give us feedback on what is going down there in Donegal.

 Michael-2-300x294

Michael Murray is the facilitator of A Course In Miracles-Ireland, having just recently organized Ireland’s first ever National Conference on A Course In Miracles 2012. Michael is also the website manager of http://www.acim.ie

Below we have a diverse set of links viewing the organisation from a biblical, Catholic or sceptical perspective:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/BRAINWAS.TXT

http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/COURSE.TXT

http://www.skepdic.com/cim.html

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4217745/k.157F/A_Course_In_Miracles__A_Christian_Worldview_Evaluation.htm

http://watchman.org/na/corsebib.htm

http://watchman.org/na/corsfact.htm

http://www.watchman.org/na/corseim.htm

http://watchman.org/na/miracle.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Course_in_Miracles

http://www.cosmicfool.com/discussion/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000016.html

http://richardspeaks.hubpages.com/hub/A-Course-In-Miracles-Truth-or-Cult-A-Student-Responds

http://seanreagan.com/a-course-in-miracles-cult/

99 Responses

  1. Um…it’s supposed to be a self study.

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  2. I have a link but won’t send

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  4. Mark have you a link to that arrest?

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  5. Michael Murray was arrested in Ibiza Spain March 2018 For rape, false imprisonment, kidnapping and sexual and physical abuse.

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  6. to the last comment, you have not seen through the illusion of society. The very idea of enlightenment is an illusion. Hopefully you wake up from that and when you do you will feel like you have come back to reality. I made the same mistake as you years ago but Luckily God and Jesus Christ saved me from it. Anybody who gets involved in “new age” buddhism and mysticism and the like are all on a path to losing their minds and souls. The proof can be seen. They become disconnected from everyone else. Also your ego is not a cult. It is your identity or your character and everyone has the ability to choose what way they behave thus defining their character. All these new age thought teacher try to tell people their ego is the enemy and they must kill the ego. But that is a hallmark of a cult, so if you “kill your ego”, they can brainwash you and control you.

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  7. I have been studying mystic experience for several years, out of my own interest, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnosticism among many others. In truth, I’ve never given a bob to anybody for it. I have for the sake of my self, learned to see through the illusion of society, and thus have found and seen the true beauty of the universe.
    It would seem from the various articles which I have read on your site, that instead of providing unbiased information on esoteric topics and allowing people to make up their own minds, that you are instead, “putting down” numerous spiritual practices and and painting all of which with the same biased brush.
    All the same, out of all the throwing stones at cults, how many people here contribute and blindly follow the biggest collective cult, the EGO

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  8. im reading it at the moment, and i am appaled by how many people commenting on this have no idea what the book is even about. some bang of ignorance off it, i for one dont talk about books i havent read

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  9. Have you done the course?
    Not evident from your comments?

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  10. stick to people liek tony quinn, lads who are clearly multi millionaires. seems liek a bunch of self righteous people ripping on any free thought movements. ACIM doesnt produce anything as hateful as the comments on this page. its jsut a book about hte freedom of love compared to limtiation of hate and ego.
    i bet the owner of this site would fancy himself a bit of a leader, but he should go off and mediate for himself, not for anybody else, just himself, maybe he’l come down off his self righteous high horse

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  11. That was a copy and paste job Michael. Did you ever think of taking Christianity on itself?

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  12. Have the book sales gone down?

    “A Course in Miracles is the transformation of the ego self, and the attainment of your true identity, which is eternal, immortal, pure, innocent, forever loving and forever loved.”

    Way out, man

    Take a day off and go to the beach. Don’t worry about being ‘one’ with everything. Throw a few pebbles, feel the sand under your feet, breath the air and know it is good. Then go home, make the dinner, enjoy it; if you are not ‘one’ with or ‘love’ your carrots, don’t worry about it. There is always tomorrow to choose another vegetable.

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  13. Understand peoples fears about new thought movements,some are definitely bad but not all! Familar with ACIM to a certain degree though not a member.Just cause new information/ideas are highlighted to people that is different from their background values does not make said idea’s automatically wrong nor incorrect. I know people are upset with “losing” family members as they see it to so called cults but in fairness many Protestant and other Christian religion families have lost people to Catholicism! Catholic’s dont want to accept that not all born within it wish to remain in it for the rest of their life as they dont particulary see it as a good thing that benefits anyone! This whole site appears as a massive pot calling the kettle black! Catholicism is the biggest cult in the world,it treated women like shite for years,spreads aids in third world countries by trying to stop the use of condoms,raped children and then sought imunity from the law! It programmes people to be played off against one another through a false set of moral valves that no one can live according to but instead end up demonizing each other on a personal judgement level,thus segragating people apart.It basically places people in a repressive mental prison all afraid to express themselves openly and honestly for fear of what the other would think of them.It offers no real practical advice to people to be able to solve personal problems esp if they dont fit within its rigid mentality.All in all creating a negative reality for people within it but has people convinced that life is just naturally hard so you’ll need God through them.It does loads more,i could go on lol The man referred to as Christ was a Jew who opposed his own religion and never set up one called catholicism.This is an historical fact thats not easy reading for many.The original Christian church dating back to Paul was taken over by catholicism .For a religion claiming to be “true” its seen by many people in the world as something more ridiculous and sinister than both scientology and the moonies put together. ALL western organised religions ARE CULTS! The truth can only be found in the words of the founders of all the worlds traditional religions and not in the tripe brigades which delibertly missapproiate their teachings for self serving purposes

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  14. My cat loves pancakes

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  15. For anyone actually interested in the history as to how ACIM was written, edited and where the words came from, including the meaning, than here is an article, which specifies that exactly by one of the Core Editors.. At least you can make your own mind up then about what created it ..
    http://www.facimoutreach.org/qa/questions/ACIM_Manuscript_History.pdf

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  16. Wow you are remarkable hope not to meet you when having a problem. Shut Up is the best you can do?

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  17. Wow! This is remarkable. The volume of fear & hate I read here is… impressive. For those of you that have “lost” someone to ACIM, my condolences; but you did it to your selves. Fear, hate, and anger, is what destroys all relationships. Fear, hate, and anger destroys all relationships with all living things. Grow up.

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  18. …. and I commend you folks for the obviously quite diligent work you do in protecting the otherwise unknowing public from such characters!!

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  19. As for Tony Quinn, he sounds quite the rascal!

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  20. So then Angie, could you please tell me how I am mistaken in my summary of the meaning of Matthew 5:21-26?

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  21. Everyone is drawn towards what one feels works best for one’s self. Some feel that because something seems to work for themselves, it must be what all others are supposed to follow too. I myself find that Jesus’ teachings on forgiveness as found in the early Gospels work best for me. Paul’s do not seem to work as well for me. Call me unchristian for that if you will, but I will still call both you and myself Christians. Jesus taught all that God was their father, he told nobody that God was their “adopted” father. Jesus taught us to say “Our Father who art in Heaven”. Not, “Our adoptive Father who art in Heaven.” That was Paul who taught that God isn’t really our true Father, only our “adopted” Father. Jesus’ teaching in this also seems to work better for me. Thus, if Jesus taught that we all shared the same Father, I find no reason not to believe that would make all of us brothers (and sisters). Perhaps Paul had some other teaching on this. Is that what you are referring to?

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  22. Perhaps you could focus on the thread A Course in Miracles or cultism? It appears you are trying to black out your Christian past.

    But as I understand Jesus’ use of the term brother, he saw all of us as the “children of God” making us all one another’s brothers (or sisters as the case may be.) Is this how you would understand Jesus’ use of the word “brother” in this passage?

    I would suggest the term is not a univeralist one but rather one that indicates a relationship with the father through the son. However, it is clear that you regard A Course in Miracles as superior to Christianity! So as we are not interested in people’s beliefs you can believe what you like!

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  23. How many versions of the New Testament are there?

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  24. It is so obvious when words of Jesus from the bible are rarely put into context and individual interpretations used to ‘explain’ his teachings. Usually when words are put into inverted commas, by the commenter, it is taken as a direct quote. So misleading and the cause of much confusion.

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  25. “Whoever calls his brother a fool will go into a fiery hell….. “ There is no question about where Tony Quinn is heading. His snake brother is waiting to show his true ‘golden’ colour.

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  26. Perhaps I should start with Genesis, where Cain asks God, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” There Cain was Able’s blood brother. But as I understand Jesus’ use of the term brother, he saw all of us as the “children of God” making us all one another’s brothers (or sisters as the case may be.) Is this how you would understand Jesus’ use of the word “brother” in this passage?

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  27. Could you define what Jesus meant by brother in this verse?

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  28. Matthew 5:21-26. Admittedly I simplified it a little. Jesus actually said, “Whoever calls his brother a fool will go into a fiery hell…..be reconciled with your brother….or you will not be released until you have paid the last cent.” And I think that in this context it’s pretty obvious that he didn’t just mean “pay off all your debts”, he meant, “be at peace with your brother.”

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  29. Can anyone tell me where such a quote is found in the bible?

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  30. I cannot speak for those who may feel that ACIM has caused others in their relationships to become “distant”, but I can speak for myself and my relationships. I am a student of ACIM and in may own family, I’ve seen it operate to heal rifts and restore relationships. In fact, the “Course” is all about restoring relationships to a basis of mutual respect and kindness. Any relationship that may be based on guilt, fear or disrespect, now that type of relationship may need some work, and may not be worth holding onto if it cannot be transformed into a truly healthy relationship. Once a relationship has been transformed into a healthy relationship”, a great deal of joy, learning, and peace can be found in it, that was most likely absent before. When Jesus said in the Bible, “you cannot enter Heaven until you have found peace with your brother”, now I know what he meant.

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  31. You all sound so fearful, like you’re trying very hard to pin your fears on something outside you, when your fear is Inside you. Perhaps seek psychotherapy, but don’t blame your fears on a peaceful thought system such as ACIM. It’s really preposterous!

    In the text itself it states that it is but one of many thousands of spiritualities to choose from, and tells you in no uncertain terms to drop it if it’s not for you. So you can just walk away and continue your life as it was, continue to hate and judge if that’s what you feel comfortable with. It is not easy to apply its principles, and many who are not ready for it change their lives in unfortunate ways as they misunderstand its message. Nothing needs to be changed! It is only destructive thought patterns that change, and that is all good!

    But, this original poster seems to be chock full of them (destructive thought patterns) and enjoying reinforcing other’s negative comments.

    The people who have purportedly “lost themselves in ACIM” would still have their personal difficulties, they are just manifesting as they start ACIM. It is written on a highly intellectual level, in Shakespearean iambic pentameter, and is brilliant. But, because one must be very spiritually mature to understand and apply it, they need to perhaps put down the book and try something else. So those going off the deep end were not brought there by a book, they were brought there by their own troubled minds. Honestly, if you blame a book for their troubles, how could they ever be helped? The responsibility is conveniently placed elsewhere. If one’s problems are always blamed on something “outside” you, there is no hope for this person!

    Seek counseling and when feeling more mentally strong, you can start again if need be, or not at all. You can say goodbye to ACIM, and it’s done. No worries! It can just be brilliant for someone else, thank you. Blessings all.

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  32. Brave New World” Revisited by Aldous Huxley in 1948-9. When drugs wouldn’t be need, group conformity and group think and mind control would be enough, A Brave New World with a Smiley face..

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  33. “Aldous Huxley may have meant Brave New World (1932) as a warning but I suspect many people would find the kind of world he describes – genetically engineered and drug-medicated but also without violence, poverty or acute unhappiness – quite an attractive prospect. “If the nightmarish society Huxley imagines is fortunately impossible, it is because it is supposed to be capable of renewing itself endlessly – a feature of utopias and one of the clearest signs of their unreality.

    Whether you think a vision of the future is utopian or not depends on how you view society at the present time. Given the ghastly record of utopian politics in the 20th century, bien-pensants of all stripes never tire of declaring that all they want is improvement. They assume that the advances of the past are now permanent and new ones can simply be added on. But if you think society today is like all others have been – deeply flawed and highly fragile – you will understand that improvement can’t be inherited in this way. Sooner or later, past advances are sure to be lost, as the societies that have inherited them decline and fail. As everyone understood until just a few hundred years ago, this is the normal course of history.

    No bien-pensant ( ‘right thinking” sic) will admit this to be so. Indeed, many find the very idea of such a reversal difficult to comprehend. How could the advances that have produced the current level of civilisation – including themselves – be only a passing moment in the history of the species? Without realising the fact, these believers in improvement inhabit a legendary land – a place where what has been achieved in the past can be handed on into an indefinite future. The human impulse to dream up imaginary places and then believe them to be real, which Eco explores in this enchanting book, is as strong as it has ever been.”

    From the review of the New Book by Umberto Eco “The Book of Legendary Lands.

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  34. Yes. ‘forget history’ was the lesson Tosknyi R, friend Sogyal of the little toady’ getting away with alledged sexual abuse of 100’s and 100’s of wester women because ! he has millions to pay them off, and 2. the power elite and the wealthy protect him. (they are so useful) .

    And Oprah who sold her own people down the tubes for her corporate billions and her many media ‘outlets’ of propaganda. Black people in America suffer the most economically now, and that is who will flock to this “Course in Miracles” Think that was just coincidental? Who does this country fear the most, will explode from the gross inequity economically and socially that has flourished under Obama, the First Black President, another puppet of the wealthy elite? This cult crap is all and only to quell the masses into passivity, so the plan for turning the world into a 3rd world can be completed.

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  35. What disturbs me is that people are influenced to continue listening to these morons because they are influenced into thinking that it is somehow more ‘enlightened’ to attend meditation classes in crapology.
    Whether unduly influenced or for personal gain the ‘teachers’ in crapology have jumped on the ‘Buddhists’ moneymaking bandwagon. What does it matter the background, their ability to teach; whatever they say, I have noticed how some make a point of asking the class to “forget about what they just heard”. So different to the way it used to be……

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  36. Earl Purdy: “but just let other people be”.

    Imagine that, he does not see anything peculiar about reading that book of that size from beginning to end to finally reach a conclusion; he thinks it’s hilarious to be so dumb, and the punch line (above) with the serious sales pitch look in the eyes tells us; ignore what is going on. Just let them get on with gaining power in the world. Reminds me of the Beatles song “Let It Be”. The hero of so many fell for it hook, line and sinker. I wonder what Paul McCarthy thinks of that part of their lives now. I doubt he is interested in visiting ashrams today.

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  37. Extracts from ‘A Course in Miracle: The Movie Trailer’

    Nouk Sanchez: “The only thing we need to do is to undo judgement, undo our resistance to what is”

    Nouk does not think we should judge her or any guru for the harm they do to people. Just accept the pain, confusion, spiritual disconnection, as your lot in life.

    Linda McNabb: “There is really nothing to fix or change or strive for or attain”

    There is no need to do anything. As you will be treated exactly the same as everyone else so why bother striving when nothing will come of it in the New Age world? Why bother to change an unjust law? Why bother with anything?

    Garry Renard: “If your happiness is dependent on what happens in the dream you are screwed because what is happening is the dream is going to change; that’s all the dream does.”

    What?

    Rev. Tony Senf: “The course isn’t really about learning anything it’s really about forgetting”

    Did someone tell him about the Educo seminar? What you don’t see is what they do to you to make you incapable of remembering something that was said a second ago. The ‘clear’ mind, they say, is best when it is incapable of thinking and also deaf. Unfortunately, following the ‘course’/hypnosis sessions they are both blind and deaf to necessary information that will free them of the cult mind-set. It takes time when ex-cult members finally break away.

    Susan Dugan: “The Great power of our mind, in a course of miracles, is ‘the choice’”

    When you are under influence there is no choice but to follow the installed programme/hypnotic suggestion. I could tell you stories that would have you rolling around laughing if it wasn’t so serious.

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  38. Why we still dream of Utopias:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2013/11/no-place-home

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  39. Marianne Williamson of the Course in Miracles fame, and her Peace Alliance , heavily funded by the Three Swallows foundaton of Paul N. Temple, who also heavily funds Unity Church, the so-called ecumentical and open church of the New Christian movement where Tibetan Lamas and Hindus teach as well, Paul N. Temple, high leader in the Dominionist Christian Theocracy movement , the Fellowship. They made a pact to work together, the above trailer is their pact come together. Follow the money, the funders, and start connecting the dots.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianne_Williamson

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  40. The Course in Miracles “Peace Alliance’ attempting to create a Peace Department (sounds good doesn’t it , except it is a Dominionist Christian Group that wants a world theocracy) and the corporations behind it:

    http://peacealliance.org/

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  41. Here is a Course in Miracles the Movie Trailer: You coud substitute a Hindu Group or Tibetan Lamaism, and it would teach the same things, they all teach the same thing because it is all Hindustani/ Theosophy Based.

    How will the world look if these allied cults keep fooling people, ? Think India, with its thousands of cults , dire poverty and misery and the gap between the few rich and the very poor are supported by ‘it’s your karma” kind of ‘democracy’. The west is almost there.

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  42. A Course in Miracles and its political movement to infiltrate the U.S. government with its front , the Peace Alliance is heavily funded by the Three Swallows Foundation, a funding arm of the Fellowship, a Dominionist group in the States, exposed by Jeff Sharlett in his book “The Family” but operating world wide, to usher in a Fundamentalist Theocracy, by stealth,.Their Machiavellian techniques, like aligning with New Age movements, behind all the rhetoric of openness and its Hindustani influenced teachings,a radically conservative, but “happy to create chaos in societies” movement, so that out of the chaos, an authoritarian regime can be instituted to ‘save the day.” Then their goals of a theocracy ,(all these cults have the same goal to become the next world religion but are willing to work together temporarily ) will create the New Utopia. The Fellowship of Abraham Veriede who started the movement and was vehemently anti-union, is about quelling the masses by using cult control techniques. Oprah pushing this , is either part of it and “sold her soul” to corporatism, , or is one of the dumbest people on earth who has also been thought control by these cult movements. ANYONE can be thought controlled by a cult. Once one studies the techniques of cults, through the research above , such as Margaret Singers work, one can begin to understand that they all use the same techniques and particularly “deception”. Lamaism pretends to be ‘Buddhism” as a front. A Course in Miracles pretends to be Christian, but is really New Age Hindustani influenced. Creating Chaos is always a technique of cults to then be able to control whole groups of people and wipe away their cultural values to make them open to thought control.

    The Fellowship, who funds the Course in Maracles and agreed in 1987 , with Barbara Marx Hubbard New Age Mother, to do the ‘one great work together” made a pact, these movements are not religious but poltical and economic to get people to accept ‘austerity. Abraham Veriede’s movement started to oppose FDR’s New Deal in the U.S. and was active in breaking up Unions, still is in the U.S.

    They are very powerful and have hooked up with the ideals of New Age only to usher in their repressive Theocracy World wide if they can. All these cults are apolcalyptic cults, including Lamaism, they WANT chaos, so that out of the chaos they can then exert their repressive authority.

    .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)

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  43. Anonymous

    There is no need to be so condescending and I accept that you speak of yourself when you say your conditioning filled your head with crap. I do not need or want ‘philosophical’ sound bites to tell me how to live my life. If you have not been involved in any group how did you manage to acquire the cult language and the cult belief system? If you have not experienced what it is like to be in a cult group you need to accept that you don’t know what you are dealing with nor do you understand it sufficiently to comment.

    “All I am saying is to step outside your conditioning meaning don’t be controlled by your past.”

    Who are you to tell me not to be ‘controlled’ by my past? You can speculate, however, you know nothing about my life, the environment I lived in. I am intelligent enough to know what I have gained from it. No, it was not perfect; however, I do not listen to sound bites that pass for wisdom in this world. Kindergarten childlike affirmations that blind you to what IS happening in the world. If I had not allowed my past ‘conditioning’ to inform me I would have stepped into something that would have destroyed my life, in fact, it would have been used for a purpose I totally reject intuitively. To advise escaping into a woolly mind-set is TO DO NOTHING and ignore the damage that is being done. I do not see how discerning and commenting about cultic mind-controlling tactics is crap.

    You say: “When I talk about connecting I’m talking about forget all the stuff anyone tells you and listen to your own intuition connect to yourself!!”

    I am connected to myself. Believe me, I do listen to myself. It was when I was hypnotised/snapped into focusing on what the cult wanted me to do that caused a separation in the sense that it took away my free will and I understand free will as God given and not to be violated. The consequences of this on my life you label paranoiac. How ignorant you are to presume this. So convenient to label someone paranoid when they discern the agenda and manipulative actions of controlling cults in our society.

    “Let me guess now you are going to tell me that your own inner guide is a cult too. OMG!!!!!”

    Now, that is crap!

    “their are scary groups out there but I don’t think most of you would know the difference.”

    Unfortunately most people ignore their intuition and do not understand the manipulative tactics that are used to overwhelm them with ‘love’ and ‘peace’ and the fear tactics used to shut them up when they reject the ‘programme’. You come across as one of them.

    “As for religion. Religion has caused nothing but separation, war, hate and fear.”

    Wrong!!! It is how men have interpreted it that has caused “separation, war, hate and fear.”

    Religion and the Law are necessary to guide mankind.

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  44. There is much that you say is true , anonymous, but we also live in a society that ‘conditions’ us constantly,even what you say is ‘conditioned’ by this ‘inner guide’ concept that is part of the ‘spiritual ‘ materialism concepts that have very subtly at first and now deeply influenced the younger generations of western culture, making us believe that we are totally control of our reality, while others in the ‘outer world’ are taking more and more control of how this reality is being shaped. It is not paranoid to take a more aerial view of things and be highly critical of what is transpiring at a rapid pace.

    In a really ‘liberal society’ that continues this experiment of radical questioning of ‘true beliefs’ i.e. fundamentalism, vs. keeping a skeptical open mind , debate and critical inquiry is essential. Questioning the conditioning should not stop, but be an ongoing process. What you are advocating is not critical inquiry , so essential to a liberal democracy, but more of the same subtle conditioning from eastern religiousity that has been programming us to ‘turn inward” and seek our ‘inner guide’ alone. That is what is going to allow the Platonic view of a ‘republic’ where the masses , now delusionally believing they are in charge of their “divine destinies”, will actually be controlled by the few . who will determine “what is best for the rest of us”. It is how a really liberal democracy fails, by this ‘passive nihilism’ taking over a critical mass of its citizens. It is how authoritarianism takes over.

    It is fear of critical debate and the unwillingness to ‘discriminate’ between what is harmful and what is less harmful for a healthy society that has been made us now fearful and cowardly as western societies. We are letting thought control cults have the same currency as any other religions, we are letting minorities with the ‘cry of victimhood’ determine what can be said or not said. This is much worse than being taking the risk of being labelled ‘paranoid’ I would rather be labelled ‘paranoid’ then be a coward and not speak out from my experience . That is exactly what we are being ‘conditioned’ to become as a whole society ‘cowards’ and passive rather than be accused of being ‘negative.’ . This fear of being negative is used quite cleverly as part of the new condtioning so that all critical inquiry and questioning which must happen in a healthy liberal society will be censored. All you are is part of the censoring. . So if you don’t care about a truly liberal society , where freedom of debate and speech and the abiltiy to say NO , or use critical reasoning, to say this is wrong, or this would be better, instead letting others determine and decide what is best, than by all means withdraw, but some of us have seen up close what the reality of these ‘influences’ are behind the curtain, and we will speak out, regardless of labels of ‘paranoid’ and ‘negative’ because that is exactly how thought control works. You , anonymous are just part of it, instead of refusing to be part of it. As you erroneously believe.

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  45. Strong reaction Anon, any ideas why you came back later again? What was the trigger. Angie gave her experience there is something on your mind. What do you mean by your inner consciousness?
    Simple question what is the difference between conscience and consciousness?

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  46. Hello

    The rational part of you was challenged so you were uncomfortable. Notice you who believe there are no absolutes made a strong affirmation of the absolute:

    As for religion. Religion has caused nothing but separation, war, hate and fear.

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  47. As for religion. Religion has caused nothing but separation, war, hate and fear. Not to mention all the perverted priests who are molesting the poor little boys. Doesn’t matter what anyone says many of you are so paranoid that no matter what is said you will twist it to be a cult. I can say the word Hello and the response will be “well I heard this cult and they said Hello so you must be in a cult”.

    OMG WAKE UP and look at yourself!! This is crazy!!! It is very apparent what conditioning each of you received.

    Good luck living with yourself as I’m out of here and all blogs as listening to the fear and paranoia scares me.

    Honestly I am being abrupt but I truly hope you all find peace in your hearts and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing. I know I said peace…I must be part of a cult…sorry

    Bye..

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  48. Angie…no offense but you seriously scare me with how paranoid you all are in the way you are talking. All I am saying is to step outside your conditioning meaning don’t be controlled by your past. Talk about misinterpreting. We all live in the past most do not learn from the past and move on. Most are stuck in the past and are reliving it over and over again. I can’t believe how much people can take things out of context. I am not part of any group or any religion as I believe they are all cult like. I simply have observed human beings my whole life and I see how self-destructive we are. All the crap that continuously goes on in our head from the conditioning we received from everyone. If you do not want to call it conditioning call it what ever you like but bottom line is you have been given information from all of your surroundings and this is how you see the world. If you were abused by your parents from when you were a baby and were told that was love. That would be your conditioning that abuse is love. If your parents told you that you are no good and useless you have been conditioned to think you are no good and useless. If your parents told you are wonderful and great, again good conditioning. I have joined no religion, no cult as a matter a fact NO group at all. Forget about what anyone tells you simply just observe one another and you will see the truth. When I talk about connecting I’m talking about forget all the stuff anyone tells you and listen to your own intuition connect to yourself!! Do not be influenced by anyone or anything follow your own inner guide. This is the first and last time I will write in a blog as I am utterly shocked how paranoid and fearful so many people are. If your have confidence in yourself you would not be so paranoid. This is my advice because you are all too full of fear and seriously paranoid that I would recommend you Don’t read any book, Don’t join any group, Stop reading blogs from paranoid, fearful people and just follow your own inner guide that is it nothing else…FOLLOW YOUR OWN SELF NO ONE ELSE. Let me guess now you are going to tell me that your own inner guide is a cult too. OMG!!!!! I’m sorry I should more understanding and compassionate as I do understand their are scary groups out there but I don’t think most of you would know the difference. It just frustrates me how people can manipulate and change anything to be CULT like.

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  49. As George commented above regarding his ‘new’ found ‘philosophy’: “what keeps me interested is they’re wonderful attitude towards sex.”

    Considering the effect eastern religions had in the 60’s I would say that sexual promiscuity, being part of the practice, had more to do with turning people away from the Catholic Church and western religions than is admitted. So much easier to ‘meditate’ when under the influence of drugs and seductive gurus preaching sexual ‘freedom’. By their fruits we know them. It would seem that society today does not have the gumption to protect children from the fallout.

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  50. I was a fan of Oprah’s and I noticed a change that appeared to be harmless and well-meaning only to witness her modes of communication become more cult like. I felt very disappointed that this should happen to her. Her initial influence had more to do with making people aware of abusive relationships and then it turned to hero worship, John Travolta, a scientologist, being her hero and, for the life of me, I could not understand how or why. She also had a mentor, an older woman who appeared now and then on her show, who she came to resemble in ways that reminded me of the cloning effect. Have you noticed how robotic ‘Buddhist’ actors have become? It is freaky to watch them in films now as they seem to have lost any real acting skills they possessed that brought them to fame.

    I have never understood the culture of holding up famous people as being better than the rest of us. By all means enjoy the skills they have to entertain, however, holding them up as icons of society is going way to far.

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  51. Yes, Angie, for some us us, the experience is a ‘cauterizing’ experience that prevents ‘infection’ again.

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  52. I was brought up in the Catholic faith and it is harmless compared to the cultic belief systems that are fostered on the young today. It concerns me that there are those who think the language of Christianity must change in order to appeal and retain their position in the world religions; why accept manipulative cultic philosophical Hindu practices just because it appears more influential today? Since reading your comments and links I have become even more aware of how different, in fact, how in opposition Jesus’ teachings are compared to the Hindu religion, for instance, the caste system.

    The less capable a cult member is of processing what is being said the more under influence they are and this is what the cult leader looks for and holds up as being in the ‘right’ mind-set. You are right in saying they use meditation and relaxation as tools to disempower the individual to blindly follow the dictates of the cult leader and core group. I am still coming to terms with how I was influenced and would rather live in isolation than damage another human being as I am conscious of how it may be triggered depending on who I am with. It is more apparent when I am with someone who practices the hidden art of chakra manipulation. Believe me, not in my wildest dreams did I ever think I would find myself in such a situation considering my knowledge of such phenomena was zilch. Since the cult experience I find it impossible to be in similar environments.

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  53. What Oprah really got her ‘reward’ for was for making victims of a whole society, then help getting them to join cults, Hindu cults, TM cults, Insight Meditation Cults, and now a New Age Christian cult. That was her reward from the “Platonist Oligarchy” that really is running the show and the majority have been duped to let them take ‘democracy’ away from us, that our forefathers fought and died for over centuries. That was her ‘reward’, the Medal of Freedom, that enslaved the majority of us further into misery, and economic austerity as she walked away with her billions. Disgusting. Disgusting, there are no words for how disgusting this is..

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  54. Cleared my cache:

    Yes, Angie, as usual you nailed it. I think , for those of us that come ‘all the way out’ wand done in a group setting, or a belief that one is part of a group that is working toward the GREATER GOOD, the SHIFT, The EVOLUTIONARY CHANGE toward Peace…… continued.

    No we have been DUPED.

    The whole point of these cults , doesn’t matter whether you join the Tibetan Hindustani Lamas or the Course in Miracles,they all use the same strategy and tactics, i.e. the groupthink is all the same: a belief that one is ‘changing the world’ for the better”, focusing ‘inward’ on ones own ‘divinity’ or ‘enlightenment’ whatever they call it , it is all the same, it is a ruse, it is deception, so people will become disconnected from our own values, our own history, personal and group history, and most particulary to become disconnected from the real “liberal’ experiment that enfranchisd more and more people, that has to go and be undermined, so you get people to pay attention to this fantasy Utopia, instead of what is really happening all around them , economically and poltically and socially, that is undermining a real democracy and a real ‘liberal’ society, so that we can be ‘controlled ” and “disempowered.” while being told we are ‘growing’ and getting stronger and clearer and closer the “Divine”. No longer able to use critical reasoning or common sense,to make decisions since we have been totally confused and distracted by the new ‘values’, we don’t even trust good sense anymore about what is right and wrong or ultimately harmful. That is how you gt a whole society to believe in a Trojan Horse.

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  55. correction: “wiping out your past all done in a group setting, the group soon becomes the ‘auhority as well” it can both ‘model’ the new behavior and ‘jargon’ the loaded language of the cult, and model how to behave toward the WISE Leader, the WISE guru or the wise “leadership’ who will bilk you out of more and more money, time and labor and even exploit you sexually or will confuse you about sexuality or gender issues, because sex is a powerful way to bind you to the cult more and more. and to the Great Project to Save the World , THE PEACE ALLIANCE, the SHIFT IN CONSCIOUSNESS, The Great New World that you feel you are part of, and you are, part of IT, but not what you think , it is the dumbing down and disempowering and disenfranchising masses of people,to accept more and more austerity, and ‘authority’ and repression, and state control, as they give up their critical reasoning and morality. All in the name of this Utopian Dream, that always leads to chaos, despair and misery for the majority of people who follow this dream to its conclusion,

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  56. Yes, Angie, as usual you nailed it. I think , for those of us that come ‘all the way out’ we are able to ‘see’ exactly how they wiped out our ‘past’ , this included family connections, ‘western cultural values” including religious and family values, educational values, democratic values, taught us to hate our own culture, while pretending to teach us to function better in the world, soon IT, the cult becomes everything, as one’s own life is ‘rearranged”, not all in one swoop” First the seduction of ‘relaxation’ and more ‘mindfulness, and by first using ‘relaxation’ as the hook and done in a group setting, they can bot and then more and more enslaves them, the longer you stay in it,

    The whole point of these cults is to ‘disempower individuals’ to make them more compliant and passive so that a vast economic ‘SHIFT’ the real SHIFT can take place. They use the groupthink, belief that one is ‘changing the world’ for the better, focusing ‘inward’ on ones own ‘divinity’ or ‘enlightenment’ whatever they call it it is all the same, it is a ruse, it is deception, so people will become disconnected from our own values, our own history, personal and group history, so that we can be ‘controlled ” and disempowered. No longer able to use critical reasoning of common sense,to make decisions about what is right and wrong. That is how you control whole populations into subservience and deeper into ignorance.

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  57. Anonymous

    You say: “You can always improve your conditioned mind with positive affirmations, etc. and that is all fine in good but in my own personal opinion the only way to know your truth is to learn to connect, to step outside of your conditioning.”

    The above sounds like the usual cultic teaching. So you say the only way to ‘connect’ is to disconnect from your past life? I will also say that I grow very weary and suspicious of anyone who automatically thinks that past conditioning is something to rid yourself from, to disconnect from, the ‘forget about the past’, it never happened scenario. Instead, we should learn from the past particularly the good that strengthens our will to live a good life rather than one full of greed and deception.

    You need to be very careful who or what you connect with and how do YOU discern it? I attended relaxation in the Tony Quinn Centre and was quite happy to clear my mind with the understanding that more of my energy is made available to bring about a therapeutic relaxed state. In hindsight I recognise that everything took a strange turn when they interfered with this. I was encouraged to ‘connect’ to life. THEIR input brings about an addictive response and it would take too long to explain how they went about it. Suffice to say their agenda was to bind people to the cult. Their plan to extract as much money as they could from people who attended the Centre came to fruition and their true colours became clear to me. They upped the ante and when they saw no money coming in from me for a Tony Quinn’s seminar, costing 20,000 Euro, their actions deliberately brought about a feeling of total disconnection from everything I held to be important in my life, an emptiness that was replaced by ‘connection’ with them; full of fear and violence to a frightening degree and physical pain that a lot of the time was unbearable. In fact, the evil that became apparent that is part of THEIR psyche was totally unknown to me beforehand. This is what the Educo cult connection brought about. This is what we warn people about. Many people who attended for so called relaxation and found themselves hypnotised, used and abused by this cult. Putting your name on a list was tantamount to handing over your life energy and this is diabolical dishonesty on their part. I took back the right to live my life and disconnected from them.

    You say; “NO I don’t start humming a song for join a cult or disconnect from my family or any of that stuff.”

    I don’t know where you got the humming notion from, I DID NOT join a cult. I DID NOT make a choice to disconnect from my family “or any of that stuff” before or during this period until my Educo ‘therapist’ gave me ‘reason’ to with the help of hypnosis; at least she did her damnedest to recruit another to serve her master ‘messiah’ Quinn.

    If you have had a connection with a cult now or in the past you are keeping it hidden. In fact, you remind me of a commenter who previously attended The Modern Mystery School which is led by Gudni Gudnason, a practitioner of sorcery whose cultic belief system includes preaching about empowering yourself while enticing those who attend into being part of ritualistic ceremonies that disempower them.

    The truth is, what saves a person from being engulfed with cults IS their PAST CONDITIONING! Why do you think they are so eager you get rid of it? Past conditioning can help see through the lies and deceitful agenda; recognise the inflated ego of insanity that proclaim super human abilities and ‘divine’ guidance and understand that what we are dealing with, in many cases, is ritualistic witchcraft/sorcery that can send some people insane. Cult leaders are Dangerous people playing very dangerous games to EMPOWER THEMSELVES.

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  58. I truly understand that we all live in fear and some individuals that have “interpreted” religion have taught us to be fearful even thought I do believe the messages came through for love. And I know with Fear comes Attack which we are all doing right now and every day of our lives. How many more years will we continue to attack one another? How many more years will we teach FEAR? We all live in nothing but FEAR??? I am very discerning and was originally Catholic but after attempting to read the Bible and stepping back and simply observing human beings not from my “Conditioning” that I received from my parents, my friends, religions, and the collective but from a place I will call love “non-judgement” I asked God for guidance to guide me where I can truly feel the truth in my heart. I know no matter what I say if I trigger a spot in you…you will certainly attack and criticize what I say. Even if God or Jesus truly came down and spoke to us we would not recognize them because we live in Fear. Isn’t it Jesus in the Bible that was attacked himself when he was trying to teach the truth. The truth is non of us not one single human being knows the whole and entire truth. I have read part of the Course in Miracles and all I interpret it to be about is forgiveness NOT to leave your family, join a cult, become detached. Again…..it is all about a persons perception according to their personal downloaded belief. There is no single book, person that holds the whole truth because we each perceive things differently. Think about it we are all born with an empty mind then all the people around us our parents, friends, teachers, etc. download information to us this is called conditioning, this conditioning determines the way we see the world. You can always improve your conditioned mind with positive affirmations, etc. and that is all fine in good but in my own personal opinion the only way to know your truth is to learn to connect, to step outside of your conditioning. All I know is when I am able to do this (which is not very often) I feel peace and joy and inspiration come through and NO I don’t start humming a song for join a cult or disconnect from my family or any of that stuff. The only way to the truth is to become the observer of your conditioning and everyone else’s and know that it is what it is. Sorry I can explain a lot more but I’m getting tired and must sleep :) Anyways hope this helps someone.

    Peace…Love….Joy to all as I do believe we are all connected and we do affect each other

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  59. I agree Chris. There is a segment of ‘believers’ who have no idea what they are getting themselves into. Someone needs to crack the rose tinted glasses and hopefully they leave them off and take a closer look at how they are being influenced and seduced into a distorted projected reality that bears no resemblance to Christianity.

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  60. “Groeschel continued to try to “open the doors of the Church” to Schucman, but his influence was subverted by her husband. William Thetford, also a Columbia professor, was a mysterious character, and “probably the most sinister person I ever met,” the priest recalled. Only after he retired from teaching did Thetford’s Columbia colleagues (who knew him best as a rare-books expert) discover that all during the years they worked with him, the man had been employed as an agent of the CIA–one who was, among other things, present at the first fission experiment conducted by physicists assigned to the Manhattan Project. Thetford also was “the most religious atheist I have ever known,” Groeschel recalled, and conceived a great enthusiasm for A Course in Miracles, personally arranging for its publication. Schucman was embarrassed, Groeschel remembered, and confided to the priest her fear that the book would create a cult, which of course it did.

    Groeschel initially read the Course as “religious poetry,” but grew steadily more negative in his assessment of it as the years passed and sales of the three volumes passed into the millions of copies. From his point of view, A Course in Miracles served to undermine authentic Christianity more effectively than just about any other work he could recall, and while he was inclined to reject the position of St. John of the Cross that “these things are diabolical unless proven otherwise,” doubts had crept in over the years. Most troubling to him by far was the “black hole of rage and depression that Schucman fell into during the last two years of her life,” the priest explained. She had become frightening to be with, Groeschel recalled, spewing psychotic hatred not only for A Course in Miracles but “for all things spiritual.” When he sat at Schucman’s bedside as she lay dying, “she cursed, in the coarsest barroom language you could imagine, `that book, that goddamn book.’ She said it was the worst thing that ever happened to her. I mean, she raised the hair on the back of my neck. It was truly terrible to witness.”

    http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2004/07/The-Making-Of-A-Course-In-Miracles.aspx?p=3#

    This is what Oprah, that recipient of the Medal of Freedom from Obama is now pushing on the Nation, Thanks Oprah , you have done so much to ‘dumb down America’ and make it a Cult City on the Hill.

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  61. Jl

    Your say: “I am no HoP troll…I do not even know what that means and all the inference to proxy servers ets is meaningless verbage to me.”

    Pull the other one. It is the same garbage I have been reading from you since I started commenting on Dialogue Ireland over two years ago.

    Joanne, you really have fallen into the pit this time.

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  62. Cultists from different streams of the same river of bullshit, aligning together. What does the Course in Miracles and the Dalai Lama also have in common, The CIA and MKUltra’s thought control programs. Google Dalai Lama and CIA, and then Google “Course in Miracles” and the CIA

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  63. The westernized Lamas/Gurus don’t work with miracles, like Jesus Lama Ole said, because people understand better an other language.
    A god Lama sells his used car or his used frigde.

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  64. And that is who these ‘Christians’ are joining forces with, some not even knowing where all this New Age bullshit is coming from and what its root influences are, but all are working together in a stream of cult alliances to destroy families, destroy critical reasoning, and democracy as we know it. These are the ‘high enlightened ones ‘ these Lamas that George Soros and David Cameron, and Prince Charles , and academia are associating with. (does it surprise anyone) and the Christian fundamentalist right have incorporated their tantric influences. How does it feel to be ‘patsies’ of the patsies of corporatism?

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  65. None of these Lamas write their own books they are functionally illiterate and get their translators to write up all their ‘talks’ and then publish them as “books” Most of them can’t speak English after 40 plus years in this country. So western Tibetan Lamaists are actually reading the works of western Lamaist translators, who have sold their souls to Lamaism and pretend to the world that these Lamas are omniscient and ‘masters’ when most of them are still illiterate peasants, who consult oracles, and believe the world is flat; they are only 60 years out of the 8th century. So stupid and ignorant about anything having to do with civil society, they are living 500 years ago, and pretending to be knowlegable about ‘everything” Only the dumbest westerners, can still be fooled by these Lamas, westerners who actually go to them for ‘advice!” Lamas who were living in the most primitive conditions, without the wheel, without hospitals, without a secular education, without even a toilet, (every year they come to west they are still amazed about ‘bathrooms” and talk about it , and when they go back to Nepal and India’ they piss and shit in a hole in the monasteries, one of the
    close students and fundraisers for a ‘westernized lama’ , after being put on retreat in his monastery, called back to her family a few years ago, after doing their ‘real practices’ of tantra and cried about ‘being born a woman, and couldn’t become enlightened” that’s who these hypocrites in robes , calling themselves ‘feminist really are’ and what they do to people’ , they still consult oracles, and astrology to make decisions. Yet still western fools would rather keep their heads in a ‘pile of dung-heaps” than know the truth!

    And yet they are commenting on “Truth” and Lies on here? You wouldn’t know a ‘lie’ anymore if it smacked you in the face! You are the most naive of the naive.

    I had a western benefactor friend, (they only hang out with people with money, just like in Tibet) that travelled to India and Nepal with one of the so-called high lamas mothers and her husband and told me about how they hung raw meat outside their hotel balcony, to “cure it’ , and she was so embarassed, this was a 5 star hotel. These were the ‘high lamas and wives. They are hillbilly aristocrats here for our western money, our labor and our wives, daughters and sisters. And the Lama fanatics are the enablers. Go back and eat you piss and shit pills of the Lamas. Did you know that is what you are eating for their Tibetan Medicine, the piss and shit of the Lamas? Their Ditsi?

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  66. Joanne…thank you. I sincerely mean that and DIALOGUEIRELANDS VICIOUS RESPONSE SAYS IT ALL.
    I am no HoP troll…I do not even know what that means and all the inference to proxy servers ets is meaningless verbage to me.
    BUT this I repeat…..
    Michael Garde…Director of DI is a LIAR. I repeat LIAR…LIAR>>>
    I offered him several opportunities to retract LIES he personally published against me.
    He was not man (woman) enough to be able to do this.
    He had also threatened to invade and intimidate my home through filming and stalking. I was forced to formally take security measure appropriate to his threats, in communication with my local Police dept, and to thereafter advise this man of the risks he would be taking if he endeavoured to carry out his threats. He spoke of “guns” which is rubbish. The weapons he would be met with would be very basic and very primitive and very effective. I hope this will never be required, but all the risk and all the responsibility and all the evil motivation will be by his doing if this one day happens.
    I am sad about Chris Chandler….I had hoped there was sincerity and a willingness to believe that all people have to be free to believe as they wish, to donate as they will and as they can, and to accept that in this life there are many many wasy to live a good life.
    Dialogueireland is a scourge and a curse…operating as a CHARITY.
    But is this any surprise in the land of Ireland, a land of corruption, double-standards and a land that has lost its life and its soul.
    Goodbye and again..thank you Joanne…its reassuring to know that I am not the only one reviled by Garde and his minnions.

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  67. Yes, and I notice that Chris uses proper punctuation and paragraphs (almost illiterate– tangental is what I would label it). And If you actually investigate her “references” you will find that 90% of them are fluff– the rest are simply inaccurate. That is actually the truth.

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  68. Joanne please just read the House of Prayer posts and the troll comments before you make a complete fool of yourself. You are so angry with Chris you have have lost your reason. Can’t you see these trolls believe themadhair, DI, Angie and Chris are all the same?
    Best of luck as you leave us for 10th time. By the way Chris has referenced all her articles with pertinent sources. Not just copy and pasted Tibetanalia!

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  69. A small sampling of how ‘tantra’ of the Lamas, who were polyandrous and polygamous, and had no concept of marriage, or of property rights for 95% of the people, where children were taken as ‘tax’ for the monasteries, or as ‘tulkus” to shill for the monasteries and where women were treated as being at the bottom of the caste system. has infiltrated into our society and is being pushed by these New Age cults including the third wave ‘feminists’ of the third “dumbed down” generation since these HIndustani concepts have infiltrated into every corner of our societies. . Who think this is about sexual freedom and gender equality. Right, like it was in old Tibet. . It is to create chaos and break up the family, as Brendon O’Neill says in the article, the ‘family’ that ‘heart ‘ in a heartless world. Nothing that is touched by Tantra is not affected. It has infiltrated into New Age Christianity and merged. As this ‘gentleman’ from the Course in Miracles so nicely demonstrates for us. Soon sex with children , as in these Tibetan lamasteries , will be acceptable. And you think the Catholic Church was a problem?

    I

    https://www.google.com/search?q=monogamy+and+tantric+sex&oq=monogamy+and+tantric+sex&aqs=chrome..69i57.18879j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
    . :

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  70. jl, I’m afraid you’re speaking to the wrong person if you want the lies to stop. Ms. Chandler is not a friend of truth any more than Mike is. I expose her lies and she simply continues on her way, unabashed. And Mike backs her up. Yes, lies are wrong, whether you are Christian or Buddhist. Lies are wrong.

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  71. Dear mr/mrs chris chandler…the sheer volume of your posts is mind-boggling…..have you nothing better to do than spend these valuable hours posting on a most miserable infamous blog site devoted to the destruction of any religion, or anyone’s right to believe what they want in a world that is becominging less free daily.
    Sadly…mr/mrs Chris…Dialogueireland is a foul, miserable, biased,one-sided, bigoted, site…and its Director M.garde is an accused liar, unable to retract lies he posted …wether intentional or in belief of informers…but…IF you are a person of integrity, and IF youhave any influence on this Mr Garde….will you please stress to him that LIES are wrong…and even if he hates the person involved…he MUST retract the lies or remain reviled by any christian

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  72. Sorry that was in the Telegraph: here’s an excerpt from the link:

    5) Bashing the family
    In Brave New World, promiscuity is encouraged and family life is frowned upon. The family is viewed as a drain on people’s creativity. Having a family demands “a narrow channelling of impulse and energy”, officials insist, as they mock “the frictions of tightly packed [family] life, reeking with emotion”. Today, too, the family is sneered at. Feminists depict it as a site of abuse, especially of women and children; bookshop shelves creak with misery memoirs about wicked mothers and violent fathers; Cameron complains of Britain’s thousands of “chaotic families”, who apparently need state guidance. The number of people across the globe who live alone rather than as part of a family unit has “skyrocketed”, rising from 153 million in 1996 to 280 million today. As in Brave New World, today not only are we surrounded by misanthropy, authoritarianism and emotion-modifying drugs in public life, but even that once quiet, private sphere of family life, that old heart in a heartless world, is being thoroughly undermined.”

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  73. Geoge says:

    “I’m married to an unbeliever and I’m in a ACIM group for a couple of years now and I find it very positive and helpful in my day to day life. But what keeps me interested is they’re wonderful attitude towards sex. I’m having an affair with two of the group – in full knowledge of both. This is real mature and healthy modern spirituality. I wouldn’t have it any other way.”

    Yes that is one of the goals of this SHIFT movement , and New Age Occultism and Tantric Lamaism, to break up the family, because the family is the source of property rights, and our democratic principles. The Occult’s goal, is to break up the family, and create chaos, it is why homosexualtiy is encouraged, why multiple partners are being encouraged , because this is the goal of the “Malthusian New Agers’ i.e. ;population control and creating chaos in our western societies so that ‘communitarianism” the precursor to totalitarianism can be substituted.

    Recent article by Brandon O’Neill in the Guardian on the Brave New World that is being created for us, thanks to NEW Age cultism.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100247159/five-things-that-brave-new-world-got-terrifyingly-right/

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  74. Now the Shift is infiltrating China. I wonder if China cares that the Dalai Lama’s Robert Thurman is one of their Luminaries? Or have the corporate billionaires taken over China like everywhere and are pushing this crap in whole populations What has saved us IS China’s seeing this Dalai as a wolf in sheep’s clothes’ And they should know, they have had over a thousand years dealing with these Lamas, How arrogant of us to have dismissed their knowledge, even if we don’t like their political system.

    This is the power this bullshit cultism has in the World now, and it is directly connected to communitarianism and ending democracy as we know it. Once it connects with China we are all in trouble.

    June 2013:

    By Stephen Dinan, Founder of The Shift Network
    Two weeks ago, I was blessed to speak at the 2nd Annual World Cultural Forum, which the Chinese created as a counterpoint to the World Economic Forum in Davos.
    They rolled out the red carpet for political, business, academic and cultural leaders ranging from the prime minister of Greece (remarkably soulful) to a Princess of Netherlands (a real eco-pioneer) to some of our Western allies like Ervin Laszlo, Jean Houston and Barbara Marx Hubbard and many mayors from both China and the West. The Chinese leaders were impressive in their commitment to creating an ecological civilization (the conference theme), surprisingly candid about China’s challenges, and eager to build bridges”.

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  75. For a chilling and scholarly treatise of the Violence and Blood Sacrifice in Tibet , see: “The Taming of the Demons: Violence and Liberation in Tibetan Buddhism”: by Jacob P Dalton 2011. Although a scholar who tries to remain ‘neutral’ and still tries to be respectful, a recent discovery of documents near Dunhuang on the old Silk Road, which he exhaustively studied, demonstrate that a ‘inactive period’ in Tibetan history was in fact ‘crucial to the Tibetan assimilation of Buddhism, and particularly to the spread of VIOLENT THEMES FROM TANTRIC “Buddhism” into Tibet at the local and popular levels. THAT is what the Lamas have brought to the west, and it is time to stop romanticizing them. This is what supports and creates a Sogyal r, In Old Tibet , ‘liberation’ may have been connected to real human sacrifice.right up into the 20th century. We can ill afford to let cult members of Tibetan Lamaism, who are thought controlled to never ‘see, hear of speak ill of their Lamas, determine the rosy colored prism that we see Tibetan “Buddhism’ through anymore, nor can we let politicians, hollywood stars, and naive academics determine the false picture we have of this ‘occult tantric’ ‘religion’ we have put on a pedestal that influenced Himmler, Shoko Asaraha, and now the 969 violent Buddhist monks of Myanmar (Burma) who were and are ‘inspired by Tibetan Lamaism’s occult tantric vajrayana.

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  76. Using the Internet, finding strength in numbers and forming ‘alliances” like this SHIFT movement, and calling it about “Peace”- they all talk about peace ,hat should be a red flag whenever you hear that, dig deeper and find out who these groups really are, what their real goals are ,- you will also always see “Global” and ‘Shift in Consciousness” , “Evolutionary” in their rhetoric, it is why cults have exponentially increased, not decreased over the last two decades, because they are working together with a similar goal and the end for them justifies the means.

    James Odea, Peacemaker, for example, is a dominionist Christian who talks at Unity Church, (where Sogyal and Tsonky rinpoche give talks) . He was the President of the Institute for Noetic Sciences, another pseudo-scientific front like the Mind Life Institute of the Dalai Lama,. The Institute of Noetic Sciences (which Dan Browns stupid books promoted selling millions) was started by Paul N Temple, high leader and oil billionaire (of course) of the “Family’ the Fundamentalist Christian group and continues to be funded , like Unity Church through Paul N. Temple’s “Three Swallows Foundation”.

    All people have to do is begin to follow the money and connect the dots to see behind these curtains of “peace’ and “enlightenment’ huckstering. Mostly it is Corporations and Malthusian billionaires that are trying to shift the world from a democracy by dumbing it down.

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  77. Here are just a few of the ” Luminaries” like Robert Thurman who have jumped on this New Age Bandwagon: The Dalai lama and his Lamaists will do anything and hook up with anyone to push their Buddhocracy on the world.

    http://shiftmovement.com/courses/

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  78. Robert Thurman, the front man for the Dalai Lama and fellow Luminary of the SHIFT, the new age massive internet group operating under this apocalyptic push for Peace:

    Here is who Robert Thurman is associating with: Notice the Corporate media huckstering all over this:

    http://theshiftnetwork.com/main

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  79. and compare Hitler’s words with Barbara Marx Hubbard’s :

    The similarity between the language of the Nazi occultists and the New Age Movement is chilling:

    “Creation is not finished. Man is clearly approaching a phase of metamorphosis. The earlier human species has already reached the stage of dying out…. All of the force of creation will be concentrated in a new species… [which] will surpass infinitely modern man…. Do you understand now the profound meaning of our National Socialist movement?”
    (Adolf Hitler, quoted by Hermann Rauschning, Hitler ma’a dit [Hitler Speaks] p.147, translated inThe Occult and the Third Reich, Jean and Michel Angebert, p.178.)

    These people are all fascists, who believe they too are a superior ‘race’ and you cannot get more ‘rascist’ then the Lamas who believe they are ‘above the human realm” and so answer to no human law. The people who are stay with them , also believe that they are one their way to ‘avatarism” and the Lamas on thrones are their models and masters to ‘show them the way.”

    Satanist Aleister Crowley:

    “…the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious, and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best … There is a magical Operation of maximum importance: the Initiation of a New Aeon [age]. When it becomes necessary to utter a Word, the whole planet must be bathed in blood. Before man is ready to accept the Law of Thelema [will], the Great War must be fought. This Bloody Sacrifice is the critical point of the World Ceremony of the Crowned and Conquering Child, as lord of the Aeon [age].”

    That is why , when you peel off the veneer of these “Lama Buddhists” you find bullying and meanness because they believe that they are part of the ‘new suprahuman’ evolutionary race. And they will demonize anyone who disagrees and attack them unceasingly . These are the New Inquisitors for the New Morality coming our way if a grass roots effort doesn’t stop them.

    For a good description of Theosophy and its connection to Stalinism, Lamaism, Hinduism, and totalitarianism, and it’s influence right now, in undermining western traditional values, which was always its intent see:

    http://eliora.hubpages.com/hub/THE-SINISTER-NEW-AGE-MOVEMENT

    All these cults were influenced by Theosophy or connected with Theosophy, and Theosophy was deeply connected with Tibetan Lamaism and its Hindustani vajrayana cult. It is NOT Buddhism it is a cult that is spreading all over the world, and causes misery and havoc where ever it infiltrates, Shoko Asahara, The Burmese 969, genocidal violence, sexual abuse of women , sexual abuse of little boys in their monasteries, Hitler and Himmler. And now the New Age Christian Right has joined up with them.

    The SHIFT brings them all together to work towards creating chaos to usher in the New Millenium , they are all Millennialists who long for an apocalyptic purge of the ‘lower races’ , The different between B. M. Hubbard, is that now , instead of physical superiority, they are claiming mental superiority,

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  80. If you want to know God read the New Testament. The SHIFT is to confuse and in too many cases brings about mental breakdown; what they consider the ideal state for reconditioning. The masters of confusion do not work for God but their individual interests.

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  81. Marianne Williamson Lesson 127

    “Seek not within the world to find your Self. Love is not found in darkness and in death.”

    “Today we practice making FREE your mind of ALL the laws YOU THINK you must obey; of ALL the limits under which you live, and ALL the changes that YOU THINK are part of human destiny.”

    “WITHDRAW ALL VALUE YOU have placed upon its meager offerings and senseless gifts”

    “TODAY WE LEAVE THE PAST BEHIND US, NEVER MORE TO BE REMEMBERED.”

    “If you achieve the faintest glimmering of what love means today, you have advanced in distance without measure and in time beyond the count of years to your release.”

    It would seem that Marianne Williamson sees the world as holding nothing but darkness and death and no chance for anyone to experience love UNLESS WE FREE OUR MINDS FROM COMMON SENSE, STOP THINKING AND LET HER THINK FOR YOU AND FORGET ABOUT THE PAST; IT NEVER HAPPENED.

    It is ridiculous to say we are not capable of feeling love without being mired in what she considers to be ‘God’s’ love; a mind-set brought about by hypnosis .

    (Barbara Marx Hubbard Happy birthday Planet Earth.p.17)”

    “Out of the full spectrum of human personality… one-fourth is destructive… They are defective seeds… In the past they were permitted to die a ‘natural death.’ the elders the destructive one-fourth must be eliminated from the social body.”

    Using the politically correct term, Is Barbara Marx Hubbard referring to the physically and mentally challenged? Are they the “defective seeds” who “were permitted to die a ‘natural death’?

    She also says that “All will know their choice. All will be required to choose….. All who choose not to evolve will die off; their souls will begin again within a different planetary system which will serve as kindergarten for the transition from self-centered to whole-centered being. The kindergarten class of Earth will be over.

    So basically folks, you have to make a choice and if you don’t choose their way you will, in some way, “die off”. I find it laughable when she says the ones “who choose not to evolve” into their crazy mind-set will attend “kindergarten”. America allowed Scientology to flourish and now we have this crazy conglomerate under the guise of Christianity.

    She says: “Humankind’s collective power is too great to be inherited by self-centered, infantile people.”??????

    That takes her and her ilk out of the race especially Tibetan Lamas.

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  82. Hi there,

    A Course In Miracles is a self-study course. No one really represents ACIM in Ireland, or anywhere for that matter. The only way to evaluate the book is to read it yourself. Study the book if you feel so inclinded, and form an opinion of your own. If it is not your cup of tea it’s not your cup of tea. Tis all good! :-)

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  83. I am ACIM student and definitely understand what everyone is saying about “losing” someone to ACIM. It can be very difficult, especially in the beginning of studying ACIM, to completely and fully understand the teachings AND stay connected to all the things of this life. We tend to feel that we must choose one or the other way to be. This is not from the teachings themselves but infact comes from the ego, ironic I know. In fact all metaphysical and new thought religions, spirituality and groups tend to cause this in individuals when the first begin their studies. What they all can sometimes fail to realize is that these teachings are meant to help them understand this physical reality so that we are happier living IN it and being even more connected to and understanding with the people in our lives and families. The reality is, at the end of the day, what will mean the most to you. I mean how enlightened do you need to be about all things spiritual? you will know it all after you die anyway. The most important thing to me is the time I have with my family here and now and ACIM helps me to understand them as well as myself better. ACIM was never meant to replace your family or live in a state of disconnectedness. Most students go through this transitional period however, and my suggestion is to be as supportive as you can and also express how you are feeling about their “absence”. Give them some time to make their adjustment and realize also that the course is a 365 day course at its fastest so it
    might take some patience. You could also try to incorporate “family time” and suggest shortened “personal study time”. I just know that these things help me and im a mom of a 4 year old and 1 1/2 year old so I try my best to stay connected and incorporate my family in my spiritual practice as much as possible. My husband is not spiritual or ACIM student but he does listen to me read a section each day as our family connection and ACIM has a childrens book called “the children’s material” and I read this to my 4yo. I wish you all the best of luck and totally understand from both POV what a struggle it can be at times. Lots of love to everyone!!

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  84. Keep digging!

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  85. My wife is not in darkness. I’m very good and generous to her. She has everything she needs. She doesn’t suspect a thing – in fact she says she loves the way I am now. I’m more relaxed and tolerant and…. well the rest is private. Suffice to say she is very very satisfied.

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  86. I’m married to an unbeliever

    What kind of unbeliever is this? Could be unbeliever in adultery?

    But what keeps me interested is they’re wonderful attitude towards sex

    What I think you mean is their attitude to faithfulness not sex.

    I’m having an affair with two of the group – in full knowledge of both.

    The relevant point is not the two women who are under due, but your wife who is getting a course in daRKNESS!

    This is real mature and healthy modern spirituality.

    nO IT IS JUST OLD FASHIONED ADULTERY.

    I wouldn’t have it any other way.

    Yes having your cake and eating it. Stop digging or is that messing

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  87. I’m married to an unbeliever and I’m in a ACIM group for a couple of years now and I find it very positive and helpful in my day to day life. But what keeps me interested is they’re wonderful attitude towards sex. I’m having an affair with two of the group – in full knowledge of both. This is real mature and healthy modern spirituality. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

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  88. Anonymous:

    You say: “The meditation sessions were very relaxing and eased my anxiety about the minor questions that were rearing their heads.”

    I can relate to how you reacted to meditation sessions. The “minor questions” were not important and, unfortunately, some will ignore the major questions also because the meditation felt good. The relaxation/meditation you welcome into your life is, actually, subtle hypnosis that, over a period of time, will cause confusion and distortion of beliefs. Similar to other cults the reading material is deliberately geared towards causing confusion. There is nothing straightforward about it. Why struggle with, so called, trance messages from a woman who claimed to receive ‘knowledge’ from God when it makes no sense to you? Why take on beliefs that were written by a mentally disturbed woman?

    I did not know the group I attended, The Tony Quinn Centre, used hypnosis. It was a terrible shock to me to realise they did not care about how it affected people, only that THEY benefited using very subtle techniques that caused havoc in their lives. As life gets more confusing, as relationships become more strained, as the only solution you think is available to you is relaxation/hypnosis because it eased and relaxed your anxiety, there is a possibility you will get hooked and well on the way to handing over money for courses, books, seminars etc., You need to understand that a lot of people are susceptible to hypnosis and the outcome of this is totally geared towards the group’s agenda. They deliberately target spiritually minded people who are comfortable with certain beliefs; they plagiarize familiar spiritual beliefs and introduce ‘new’ radically different interpretation. The ONLY way groups like this accumulate believers is by inducing, hypnotically, what cannot be accepted by logic.

    I would say there is a lot to be concerned about when family relationships are broken down due to a change of religious/spiritual beliefs induced by hypnosis.

    The foul subtle influence of the cult takes over your mind. You attend the, so called, relaxation sessions at your pearl!

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  89. First of all you seem to have concluded that what appeared to be Christianity was not in fact Christianity.
    In other words you are referring to beliefs. You concluded they were different, but then you go onto a section which bares no connection with what goes before. See under quote:

    OK at first I thought it was a Christian movement like the Charismatics, Promoting love and forgiveness seemed like a laudable objective. However as time went on I began to realise that the creed was radically different to what I grew up believing. I found it difficult to understand really and spent considerable time re-reading the lessons

    The meditation sessions were very relaxing and eased my anxiety about the minor questions that were rearing their heads.

    What you seem to be saying is that is that your critical mind was subverted and by doing their meditation you minimised the real issues mentioned above.
    In other words as you allowed yourself to be influenced the questions became minor!

    It has been suggested to me that ideas have been planted in my mind while I was in a hypnotic state.

    Who suggested you had been subject to some form of undue influence? Likely someone who observed you or a family member and they noted you were not the same person they knew. You seemed to be distant and lacking in coherence. Likely you have been moving from one school of thought to another. Ashyana Deane
    https://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/category/ashyana-deane/ ACIM, and when your contradictory views are exposed you go to another group. The School of Philosophy, Ascended masters and whatever.
    Also you will likely be totally disconnected from your family, might even have moved in with another person yet go to the Catholic Church but see no problem in taking communion? In other words you are a walking philosophical contradiction? These are the traits I observe and are reported to me by husbands, but more likely wives of people who have to deal with the real world while you are on cloud nine.

    I resent being told that I have been duped by this group.

    We all resent being given the truth, or receiving feedback which bursts our bubble.
    Some questions:
    Since starting on this are your finances in order?
    Do you spend quality time with your children if you have them?
    How have they reacted to what you are doing? Do they tell you are away with the fairies?
    Have you told your spouse that she has no time for you, yet you have abandoned them believing
    your destiny is as an atomised individual? Do you see any problem in forming a new relationship, in your head first and then actually fragrantly living with someone?
    Let say you are a plumber or a business man?
    Ask any of your workers or peers to give you feedback about your new outlook?
    What do they say, that is if you have the bottle to ask them?

    They are nice people.

    Most people are but though but that does not mean nice people can’t induce you to be influenced!
    Many have independent means and are NOT confronted with the consequences of their delusions. They still Celtic Tiger money put away to continue these delusions.
    Did you not believe something quite significant was going to happen last Dec 21? You actually went to Florida or or were somewhere here in Ireland expecting a big bang but all you got was a whimper. You told family members, but then acted if you knew all along it was a load of ould bollocks?

    Christianity doesn’t have the monopoly on religion.

    No one here is talking was claiming that they did? This an issue of you justifying your confusion and is an argument in your head. You noticed it was not Christianity , now you have joined up you have to watch your back! Feeling a little unclear?

    I don’t see where all the hostility is coming from.

    Which particular hostility are you on about? Spell it out and we will publish it!

    Liked by 1 person

  90. OK at first I thought it was a Christian movement like the Charismatics, Promoting love and forgiveness seemed like a laudable objective. However as time went on I began to realise that the creed was radically different to what I grew up believing. I found it difficult to understand really and spent considerable time re-reading the lessons. The meditation sessions were very relaxing and eased my anxiety about the minor questions that were rearing their heads. It has been suggested to me that ideas have been planted in my mind while I was in a hypnotic state. I resent being told that I have been duped by this group. They are nice people. Christianity doesn’t have the monopoly on religion. I don’t see where all the hostility is coming from.

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  91. In response to your previous posts. I too have lost my partner, my children have lost their parent to ACIM . He is involved in nothing “only goodness”. It is frightening to see somebody so disconnected from reality & looking “for an awakening”. Because there is no identified leader “he is not in a cult”. This is all been achieved in a subtle way it is all “peace, love & light”. The signs to become aware of are gradual disconnection from family life, in our case increased time meditating, no interest in what is going on in the world outside & “living in the now ” despite work responsibilities & bills to be paid. The only way to stay sane in my case has been to detach from my spouse & not get drawn into conflict or engaging in conversation about ACIM. I cannot make head nor tale of it & have no desire to do so. As a professionalin my field in my opinion ACIM are the ramblings of a person under influence. How can somebody give credibility to this stuff much less study & believe in it??
    I think this forum will allow people to question ACIM & it’s followings & let families realise that other families are also being destroyed by this group.

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  92. That shows the power of cultism. It overwhelms the rational defences and removes the family framework and it is like an acid destroying the relationships of a lifetime.

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  93. Should I be worried? My brother attends ACIM meetings and spends a lot of time reading and studying their ‘bible’. This from a man who never showed any interest in religion of any sort and believed that when we’re gone we’re gone!He has recommended that I purchase this book also, that it might interest me. I have noticed that his conversations now are brief and searching. How do you feel about that….type of questions. He has also begun to talk about leaving his wife. Their marriage, he says , is not giving him enough space for himself. This puzzles me because their marriage is the strongest I know. If there’s no hope for them . There’s no hope for any of us.

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  94. How do I shake him into reality and at the same time stay sane myself?

    This describes the dilemma very well. The idea you can somehow change him is what leads to your own loss of sanity.
    It is like in AA you have to recognise that you are powerless over him and do not get into trying to figure out what his beliefs are. By the time you do he will have moved onto another set!
    These links on Influence might help.
    https://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2012/07/21/psych-sleuth-margaret-singer-has-made-history-delving-into-the-psychology-of-brainwashing/
    https://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/the-relevance-of-dr-margaret-bridget-thaler-singer-for-cultism-in/
    The best way to help others is to share your insights here, the feelings and describe what it is like.
    We can create a support group for those affected by the ACIM.

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  95. I’ve lost my Dad to ADIM. Over the last year I’ve seen his personality change dramatically, I hardly know him. He has abandoned the family in search of his ‘own space’. His level of detachment and denial about the trail of devastation he has left behind is disturbing. The greatest success of the ACIM group is that the group members don’t even realise what is being done to them. My Dad sneers at the idea of this group influencing his radical decisions and irrational behaviour. This is a surreal situation to be in, I wish I could help him but I don’t know where to start. How do I shake him into reality and at the same time stay sane myself? He’s acting like nothing is wrong and our world has fallen apart.

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  96. Anonymous my reading of this group would suggest that it is not a sect but rather a loose grouping a network, but I can understand your anger. I would be careful to use terms like demonic as that reinforces the problem rather than healing it. I think other people who either share the views of ACIM or people like you need to give descriptions of what they experience to hold up a mirror for them to look into. As you have seen from other posts they think it is is not a cult in that it does not have a kind of REV MOON or David Koresh figure at its heart. In other they have missed the more subtle and gentle form of undue influence. Continue sharing these as they will touch a nerve.

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  97. I lost my husband to ACIM. He is a different man now. Where he was once loving and affectionate he is now behaving like a latter day saint, sitting on his high moral ground and pontificating to us all. He is unable to articulate his feelings and speaks in vague canned phrases…spiritual path…..needs head space…..has had an awakening…I miss him so much but he is dead to me. The man I loved has disintegrated. This nightmare has been caused by the influence of so-called, self-professed healers and pseudo-spirituals. I truly believe this sect is demonic.

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  98. Fantastic work mike. You have highlighted the destructiveness of ACIM on marriage & the family. “Only love is real” is a complete joke from this organisation!

    Like

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