The Ex Educoist Dialogues ~ putting on the fog lights!

Submitted on 2012/06/01 at 12:19 am | In reply to Angie.

Dialogue Ireland has been observing your dialogue and it is very encouraging to see such hard work going into recovering from the cultist abuse you encountered. We plan to make your dialogue into a full post as the thread you are on would not be seen by many. We can there address the legal, counselling and other issues you are raising. We would also be prepared to publish your stories anonymously if necessary to reach out to other Educoists who are isolated and confused. They have many of them lost the will to live. Your commenting is very therapeutic and could assist others to break from the black and white thinking prominent among those who have encountered abusive pyramid schemes like you have. I have also noted the inappropriate sexual innuendo which you encountered which also needs to be addressed.
As Director of DI we are here to assist anyone with advice and information in the journey to freedom!
This post in regard to a Buddhist group might be of relevance:

Any one seeking help please contact Dialogue Ireland as we have been collecting testimony from victims and can give you information, albeit anonymously. Ways to contact Dialogue Ireland include email,  or telephone us on, +353 1 8309384 or 353 872396229 or Skype mikergarde

We offer free advice and information, and will publish testimonies either with your full name or anonymously of those still in a process of healing. We do not personally offer therapy but have a list of those that do. We also would recommend those seriously affected by their involvement to consider a visit to this location for in depth support.

Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center is a residential treatment center for those who have been abused in relationships, cults, situations of trauma, and by destructive therapeutic alliances resulting in emotional betrayal and/or physical harm. We offer hope and help through a program of counseling, education, and retreat.

 Disappointed Educoist
Submitted on 2012/06/01 at 1:20 pm

Hi Dialogue Ireland: Thanks for your post. I would be very happy for my story to be published if it helps someone to feel better about themselves. I understand only to well the feeling of loosing the will to live and not knowing where to turn.

Submitted on 2012/06/01 at 2:30 pm | In reply to dialogueireland.

To Dialogue Ireland: Thank you for your post and very educational information attached. It certainly opened my eyes to the truth about the abusive nature of some groups and it broadens my understanding about the dangers people find themselves in while on a very genuine search for spiritual awareness and helped me understand what I went through.

Submitted on 2012/06/01 at 2:32 pm | In reply to dialogueireland.

To Dialogue Ireland; I forgot to answer your question in my last post. Yes, you are welcome to use what I have printed to help others.

Submitted on 2012/05/22 at 5:40 pm | In reply to Disappointed Educoist.

It really is a sad state of affairs and I feel sympathy for you and those who find themselves in financial difficulties because of the hard core sales techniques that are used by the same people who now vilify your reputation. Their lack of empathy is frightening.They are the people who are trapped in thought programmes that are taking them further and further away from reality. I ask myself, why are they so blind to what is happening? Their ‘saviour’ is due in court because of fraudulent financial transactions and alleged rape and battery charges and yet they continue to sing his praises and put down anyone who questions what he does. His mind programmes have gone so deep they are incapable of thinking for themselves and you have to remember also that some of these same people quite possibly were aware of other questionable practices occurring throughout the years and, somehow, were convinced to accept them. For example, it is known that there is a sexual ritual for ‘enlightenment’. I believe that he abused these women by using hypnosis. Many more need to come forward to make it public.
It is also frightening to see how people who follow him show a lack of empathy for those who have suffered either mental breakdown, physical pain or financial difficulties due to their actions. As I said previously, it is a reflection of the hold he has over their lives. What you have experienced from his followers is the result of his conditioning techniques. It would seem that they are conditioned to withstand any form of constructive criticism. It strikes me too that they fear to appear ‘unsuccessful’. Their sense of worth is wrapped up in perpetuating the lie that TQ has something unique to offer. He is unscrupulous in his methods to make money. He would not be able to do it without them.

What is it they say that ‘you need to be true?’ You might be referring to one of his slogans that I loosely put as ‘If you want something, really believe that you have it and it will come about’? I think that people are capable of achieving something when their need is strong and the conditions are right to make it happen without any input from TQ. I know that the claims they make are exaggerated. They are conditioned to respond very positively about how they have benefited from the seminars etc. In the beginning they may feel uncomfortable about the exaggerations but a lot of pressure is put on them to conform to the groups beliefs. Your difficulty to confirm, what they believe to be the reason for their existence, would make them uncomfortable so I am not surprised that they rejected you. Stay true to yourself!

Disappointed Educoist
Submitted on 2012/05/25 at 9:37 am

I find it interesting that there are now allegations of rape and sexual misconduct. I had heard rumours but when I questioned this I was told it was all gossip. However I was asked on numerous occasions by different people what I thought of Tony and “did I fancy him?” which I made very clear under no circumstances would I be interested in him in this way. At one of the seminars he approached me and I had the distinct feeling that he was trying to see how I felt about him and I was extremely uncomfortable during this exchange. When he realised I wasn’t interested I was barely acknowledged again through out the rest of the seminar. I can’t even begin to describe how badly I was treated by Jim Fitzgerald his assistant at this second seminar. It took me years to understand that this had nothing to do with me but was all part of the game to get you to conform. However that just never worked with me. I will ask questions and want to see for myself and not just take someone else’s word for it. The depression I felt was so awful I was unable to work for 6 months & throughout this time. I received absolutely no support from anyone in the organisation. I am surprised that there haven’t been suicides after this because I know that is how I felt for a long time. It took a lot of strength to overcome this. I look at the whole thing as an  experience as some things did happen that were amazing but I didn’t discuss them with anyone at the time because I was dismissed by these people. I am glad I had a history of meditation before I went on these seminars an an understanding of how the mind can work because I would hate to think what might of happened if I didn’t. I also acted very out of character going on those seminars when I did. I was going through a very difficult personal period of time and I can’t believe I fell for it. If it was today or even a couple of years earlier it just would not have happened. I can say that I am in a great place now and still on my search and have met some wonderful people along the way. Sadly I just can’t say that about EDUCO.

Submitted on 2012/05/26 at 5:49 pm | In reply to Disappointed Educoist.

To Disappointed Educoist; All that you say in your e-mail is so familiar to me. I too was approached by TQ and other males in the group. I too was not interested. His workers, particularly the men who are close to him, do collude with what he does. His female followers are just as bad. Have you seen the movie ‘Martha Marcy May Marlene’? This film has an insight into what can happen in a group similar to TQ’s.

On my first seminar I was given the impression that confusion was a good state of mind to be in. With hindsight I can see that it is easier to influence someone when their conscious mind is temporarily out of action. TQ refers to it as the ‘switch’. A state of non-thought becomes more a hindrance than a help and even dangerous when it interferes with a person’s logical process of thinking and dealing with issues that need to be addressed. Their natural ability to cope with life is undermined when they have been indoctrinated into believing that TQ has the answers.

It is ludicrous that they see you as a failure; what is far worse for them is that you manifest THEIR failure as we know that pressure is put on them by TQ to ‘bring you into the fold’ so to speak. Be very happy about ‘failing’ to sell seminars. You have not contributed to the damage they have done.

From what I witnessed and heard on these seminars it is their goal to break a person down till they become part of the group. It is far easier to continue deluding someone who has committed to ‘making this world a better place’.

They encourage people to continue going to relaxation to reinforce TQ material and to ‘switch’ them back into being ‘high’ on life. It would not surprise me that, a person who comes off a seminar, would experience something similar to a drug addict coming off drugs and this ‘low’ may well be what keeps people going back to the group and attending seminars for a ‘top up’ as it was called in the earlier years. It is unfortunate that members of his group compounded your depression by ‘rejecting’ you. BE VERY GLAD THAT THEY DID. At least you are not under the illusion that TQ and his group ‘has your best interests at heart’. They would not have left you in that state if they had. They showed their true colours.

Even though it was a hard battle I admire your strength of mind in overcoming your depression. I’m glad that you are able to put the EDUCO experience behind you and that you are in a better state of mind now, although I do wonder what it is you are searching for. Stay true to yourself!

 Disappointed Educoist
Submitted on 2012/05/29 at 12:32 pm

To Angie: It took me quite a long time to realise that the rejection I was subjected to was a good thing. I will never forget an incident where I bumped into Tony in quite an unexpected way after the seminars and he completely blanked me and refused to even acknowledge me. Even though I was in the depths of depression I was shocked at his callous behaviour towards me considering I had paid vast sums of money for his seminars. It was very apparent that I was not coping well at the time and the lack of compassion for me was truly shocking. I still remained on the periphery of everything as this kind of behaviour would never endear me to anyone. I realised that they didn’t have my best interests at heart and I agree you would help someone who was suffering in way that I was. I actually think is they don’t know what to do with anyone who is suffering after a seminar and it wasn’t encouraged. I have been led to believe that they have recently started to set up support networks for people returning from seminars but it my case it is too little and far to late.

Yes the men in the organisation are something else. I was abused by one very close to TQ and another attempted to groom me but as I said previously I just wasn’t interested. I reported the abuse in the organisation but nothing to this day has been done and I am not the only person this happened to. Again it was totally out of character for me. I have avoided physical intimacy for years after this experience although it wouldn’t be the only reason. It is only recently again I feel ready to allow any intimacy into my life. It is amazing how many people just put their heads into the sand so to speak and refuse to deal with the number of accusations that are flying around. Not everyone who reports these things are making it up that is impossible but they are very good at making you feel it is your fault, but that is all part of how they keep people in. I am thankful that I am no longer involved and I have been able to put my life back together.

The search I refer to is my spiritual search and the answers for me. I know that they are different for everyone. I am grateful that I had the strength to get away and to be able to put this experience behind me.

Submitted on 2012/05/29 at 10:28 pm | In reply to Disappointed Educoist.

To Disappointed Educoist; I am very glad you are strong enough to get through it and put it behind you. You know that anything that happened was not your fault. How would you have known that they target some females to lure them into sex? You mentioned that your behaviour changed when you were on seminars. That’s understandable. The focus was on changing your behaviour.

As you have probably guessed, I had some strange encounters myself that were quite abusive. I found it very helpful to talk it over with a counsellor. God help us if people who are involved with TQ decide to ‘help’ with a support network for those who are damaged by the seminars. It would be catastrophic for anyone to depend on their support. They are not in a position to be honest and open about it. Their only interest is to cover themselves. If they ignore people who report being treated very badly and then turn it around to blame them, how can they be trusted to treat a person with depression caused by hypnosis or abusive behaviour and whatever else happens on these seminars or in the centre? Their behaviour towards you and others leaves a lot to be desired. I have read some e-mails by people who think the seminars are great, that it is only a few who complain about them. One complaint like yours is enough to call for some kind of questionnaire to find out what the real story is.

It does not surprise me your quest is spiritual awareness. Initially I was drawn to the TQ centre because I thought it was about that. It wasn’t really though was it? Just a mishmash of all sorts to get peoples attention. When they are under his influence they really think they are superior to everyone. I’m not surprised they depend on him because they have been convinced if they leave it would mean going back to ‘normal’ life and ‘who wants to be normal’? is an expression used a lot. Believe me, you have a far better chance of being happy and content living a ‘normal’ life.

I believe that spirituality is important. I believe that I am a spiritual being living in a human body, not a human being trying to be spiritual. Stay true to yourself!


Disappointed Educoist
Submitted on 2012/05/30 at 8:25 am

To Angie: Yes you are right I went to Tony Quinn because I also thought it was supposed to be about spiritual enlightenment however that was not what is was about. It is about having power over others. I listened to Tony try to convince the audience that people like The Dalai Lama didn’t understand true reality. He would be quite rude about them. I always found this very strange as it is the opposite of what a spiritually enlightened person would say. I believe that initially he did want spiritual enlightenment himself but somewhere a long the way he really lost his way. Some of his stories are so far fetched one wonders just what he has been up to over the years. I know women in the organisation who is extremely well travelled and she would say openly that he is not the only person in the world to have allegedly done all the things he has claimed to do e.g. sit on a mountain and meditate for months on end.

The attitude that prevails regarding their superiority to others disgusts me. It always has. I always found them to be some of the most judgemental people I ever met with little compassion an understanding of true human nature. I never actually witnessed any of them help someone in trouble. It was not encouraged to assist someone who needed it.

I agree with you that it is catastrophic that the TQ networks actually believe they can help people after a seminar. A lot of people with mental health problems go on these seminars so one wonders how they can be equipped to help those who are struggling if they are really struggling themselves. Its laughable that after so many years of rejecting those who struggled after seminars they now want to help.

The abusive behaviour that prevails is encouraged by those close to Tony to try to force you to conform. I find it interesting that although a lot of people complain about the appalling behaviour from the likes of Jim, Collette, Glen, Martin, Dave etc they can’t see that this behaviour comes from the man himself. After all he keeps telling everyone to follow his example and that he is the only person in the world he knows who is truly enlightened. It must be incredibly frustrating for people who are doing everything they are being told only for them not to be so enlightened as the great man himself!. TQ is very good at distancing himself when it suits him only to reel them back in when it suits him. I have seen some of the above be ignored by him for a few months only to be let back into the fold if they go on another seminar or the drama surrounding some behaviour has died down.

Another thing they do is dismiss this forum for people to express their experiences. I didn’t know about Dialogue Ireland for a number of years and when I found out about it it was dismissed as negative and anti-life. There is no complaint mechanism in the organisation because they don’t want to hear the negativity. Again this did not sit well with me. I don’t believe in complaining for the sake of complaining however an organisation that is transparent would not have a problem with investigating sexual misconduct and abuse.

This is the first time that I have actually written down my experiences and it is a relief to be able to do so. I do feel very sad that something that could have been so great turned out to be so disappointed. Thank you for your dialouge I have been grateful for the exchange.

Submitted on 2012/05/30 at 1:42 pm

My husband and I were the first to join Tony Quinn’s and later on my son did. I should say unfortunately my son did because it took away all his young years when he should have been out with his friends and having a good time. instead he became obsessive about his health, having been a perfectly healthy fellow anyway. my husband would be better at explaining this but I will try. he won’t come on here because he thinks that it is one or two individuals who write everything but I just want to say what i think anyway.
my son changed so much with Tony Quinn and I suppose we did too but we were mature enough to walk away. really, I think I hit the nail on the head when I said maturity there. my son spent every waking moment obsessing about diet and flexing his muscles in front of the mirror and looking at himself and worrying about his blood count. Some idiot in Tony Quinn’s gym told him his blood count should be at some super duper number, which my doctor later said was something he had come across before and it was rubbish. Tony of course thinks he knows more than the doctors, I don’t think so. His own mother died from cancer and with his super duper healing he couldn’t save her. My son after joining Tony Quinn’s judged everybody he met according to their “condition” and their “attitude” and if he didn’t think they met the Quinn’s standard he would take it on himself to fix them. Even his grandfather who spent almost his entire life in amateur boxing didn’t escape the advice on how to do the right way in everything. My son was a normal lad up to this. I am happy to say that as we distanced ourselves more and more and he met his wife everything changed. He is now a normal fellow and loves life.

I need to mention the way it all works in Tony Quinn’s. He always had an inner circle and that is well known. There is always one lackey who is always with him. The lackey and there have been a lot of them, is the one who does a lot of his dirty work , cover up stuff, lie for him and all the sort of things a lackey would do. The lackey then takes on an air of superiority and feels free to give advice to everyone else and when not in Tony’s company, they act like him. They will be telling people that their husband or wife or whatever it is is not right for them and I have seen for myself how relationships are tested by these idiots. The Lackeys are given the cold shoulder by Tony when he wants a new lackey to do new stuff and then Tony back bites them into the ground. Te main memory I have of Tony Quinn’s is the constant back biting and jealousy of all the members and especially in the inner circle or group of lackeys. They all talk about each other and then they all try to show how successful they are when half of them haven’t got a shoe on their foot and drive around in cars that should be off the road.
The girls love saying Tony said they have great potential to be a model or something and the men are so vain. The lackeys are the worst. Even after they all left Tony’s they set up in similar businesses and they act the way he did and people still fall for it.
sometimes when I meet people from Tony Quinn’s they try to cajole me into going back I always say that he should have been able to get the price if a barber together by now.
I have to go now but I would like to say that my father in law used to know Tony when they were young, from the boxing and he said that Tony was the biggest coward and all the young fellows used to call him lily.

Submitted on 2012/05/30 at 1:45 pm | In reply to Disappointed Educoist.

I also find our dialogue very helpful. It is refreshing to have honesty for a change. For many years I felt that what was presented was not actually what their real intentions were. Very few would have known about their real purpose. If he truly believes that he has some unique purpose the time for secrecy is no longer an option. TQ may have been interested in being enlightened but, in hindsight, some decisions he made were very ignorant. I feel it was a power trip right from the start and we now see that making money was a huge part in it. I also saw how people who had talents were encouraged to join the group particularly if they had experience with finance and the rest were used to spread the word, distribute the news paper etc. They were made to feel really special. Only recently I read about the people who used to live in Howth being asked to leave the house so he could sell it. They had given years of their lives to him and were dismissed because they could not accept the changes he was making and, of course, they had not lived up to his expectations. ‘Enlightenment’ is not the word. ‘Opportunistic’ is more like it. It must have been a terrible shock to them. A conversation I overheard between two of his workers, in the early 90′s was very telling. It was clear they policed each other. One was threatening to tell TQ about something the other was doing. Allowing anyone to have such control over someone’s life could be dangerous. As I said before, their loyalty is frightening.

Yes, some would be in favour and some out of favour. I dread to think of the internal battles that went on and still go on although it was obvious who would be on top for the others to kowtow to; the emotional manipulation would be horrendous in a group like that. Their feelings of helplessness and anger, for some, would cause depression particularly if it is internalised. You are well out of it.

Reeling them in is a good way of putting it; you may be familiar with the phrase ‘fishers of men’. His hypnotic suggestion must be very strong and the fact that they were around him for years has engrained it and I also heard that he is not slow to use physical abuse to get them focused on what he wants. It’s a strong hold he has over them. People like you, on the periphery, have a better chance of getting out of it and it’s not easy as you know. It is disconcerting, at this stage, to realise that what the papers were writing about, all those years ago, is true; IT HAS THE HALLMARKS OF A CULT.

The oil business was his downfall. It would seem that TQ was given shares so he did not put any money into it himself and yet he was making a deal to get out of the company and take a huge amount of money for himself. Have you read that he is due in court sometime in June?

Is there any way of getting your money back? Have you been in touch with consumer rights or a solicitor? I don’t know the ins and outs of it myself but it would be interesting to know if anyone else is suing him besides the people with oil shares. It is unbelievable what he did to them. How can a complaint about what is happening be turned into a ‘negativity’? It seems like a real fear they have. I can understand that some people will have a positive effect and some a negative effect on others. This has always been the case. If they deny their own fears how can they deal with other peoples? Do they take responsibility for the negative effect they have had on others? Do they offload their fears onto others? Our dialogue is reminding me of how uncomfortable I felt in their company and how aware I am of people who tend to leave me feeling drained. It’s a strange feeling. Has TQ found some way of taking and using other peoples energy? Is that the secret he is on about? Is this his unique ability? He talks about drawing them out. It is quite possible that others, who ARE enlightened, have known about this for centuries, even the Dali Lama, but there is no record of it being abused that I know of. Any belief system that causes this has to be looked at and those who participate in it need to realise that it can be impairing in some way when used by the likes of TQ. I have also heard that he compares himself to, or is it that he is, Jesus Christ? What he does is the opposite of ‘doing unto others what you would have them do unto you’ if his record is anything to go by.

Is this a battle of supremacy as an earlier e-mail suggested? The picture TQ creates of the new human being, if the people he has is anything to go by, does not appeal to me at all; they are used to carry out his unpleasant work ie turning up at meetings to sabotage peoples efforts to sort out the mess he has created; their outlook on life is narrowed down to what he believes; their ability to think and communicate is impaired; making decisions is frowned on if it does not fit in to what he wants; anyone who does not believe what he says is the enemy (negative); those who do not live up to his standards are shunned no matter how many years they have put in; and using them for what he wants is standard across the board. Some one will have to explain what it is that is so great in a coherent fashion besides a hypnotic suggestion that wears off after a period of time.

The information they put out in their papers as healthy living is off the backs of other peoples hard work so there is nothing original about that.

Like you, there are many out there taking back control of their lives. I’m glad you find our dialogue useful. Stay true to yourself!

Submitted on 2012/05/30 at 3:22 pm | In reply to Anonymous.

Replying to most recent e-mail; Congratulations on getting your son back. Now that’s what I call ‘good news’ when I hear that someone has come away from the TQ group and making their own way in life. It must have been difficult for your family to be told by someone much younger how to live your lives. That’s why I emphasise TQ’s use of hypnosis. It has to be very strong to change someone like your son and other young people who were drawn into this group. I fee quite shocked with your description about how they are with each other. It’s like they want TQ’s attention and want to be ‘chosen’ by him. To encourage jealousy is sick and the back-biting would only cause division between them. For all the good he boasts about doing he treats his workers very badly. I also know that members of the group were told that if their family and friends were against TQ it was because they were jealous of him. The deep unhappiness this rubbish they feed them has caused ructions in families.

I can understand your husband having reservations about posting e-mails. I can assure you that I am genuine and have no reason to doubt those who are honest about what they experienced. A lot of people fear TQ and I believe it is intentional on his part to stop them from speaking out about what is really going on. It doesn’t seem to be working though as more and more people are talking about it and suing him for financial dodgy dealings.

I have come to understand that if people stay around TQ long enough, their minds are messed up to the point where their own personality and true feelings are ignored and, as in the case of your son and many others, are used to sell TQ products by constantly talking about them. As they are indirectly employed they don’t get paid for it. Now I get it. I have heard him talking about ‘employing the self’. In other words he uses them for his own benefit and it doesn’t cost him a penny. Of course he would encourage them to keep going back to the TQ centre and anywhere else they hold their classes and those who give the classes will say the same as him and it becomes almost impossible for them to break away particularly the workers. Yourself and your husband and son coming away from them gives me hope that it is possible and, hopefully, many more will do the same. Unfortunately, it is usually a nasty experience that gives them a chance to think about what is really going on.

I understand that some people who attended the TQ Centre would have gone there because of their interest in spirituality and some continue in their own way to work in this area. We can only hope that they are genuine and not just pushing what TQ does for the wrong reasons. They need to be very aware of the long term effects they have on people that they supposedly help. These ‘genius’s are anything but and if they have any kind of a conscious they will stop playing with peoples mental health. Yes, they do take on TQ mannerisms. Anybody ‘in their right mind’, another phrase they use, would stay well away from them. I don’t think they are in the same league as him, at least, I hope not but people need to be wary of anyone who ‘has the answers’ to how they should live their lives or anyone for that matter who seems hell bent on influencing them in the way TQ does. Most of what they say and write about is impossible to live by anyway but it doesn’t stop them from putting it out there.

Thank you for your courage in posting e-mail and the best of luck to you and your family.

 Disappointed Educoist

Submitted on 2012/05/31 at 5:19 pm

To Angie: Yes you are right about the house in Howth. A load of people were just literally turfed out on the street because they were not considered enlightened enough. The house was sold to I think it was Glen who rents the rooms to people in Educo. I have met a couple of people who stayed there for awhile and life is made very uncomfortable for those women who are not hero worshipping some of the men living there. Quite a few people have been bullied out by the behaviours of those who don’t approve of them. I haven’t heard anyone speak badly of Glen in this regard I am led to believe that he is a fair and decent landlord.

I doubt that there is any way of getting my money back as TQ’s companies are registered in Jersey and I am not sure that it is possible or get money from a company that is registered in a country that I do not live in. I am not sure I could stomach the fight especially if I am on my own doing so. If a class action was taken by a group of people I would definitely join that as I suspect so would many others.

I really can understand the power of hypnotic suggestion as I know how uncomfortable I feel just thinking about a class action even though I know how badly I was treated and abused. Its incredible that one person can affect your state of mind to the point that you become unsure of what you know is right or wrong and you feel guilty about someone else’s wrong doing.

I would have always said that this wasn’t a cult because you had the freedom to come and go as you please, however I come to believe cults come in many different disguises and even if you don’t necessarily live within a community they can still effect you in ways that you may not be aware of as I am an extremley good example of this as are probably others.

If you asked a member of Educo about me they would tell you that I am negative and trapped in thought because I question things however my friends would tell you for the most part I am a very happy and positive person who for the most part puts a positive spin on things. Of course I have my bad days and can complain like the best of them if I am around complainers but it really isn’t my nature and never has been. A lot of my friends would say that I am a free gentle spirit and I think everyone was shocked when I became involved in this organisation. I am still friendly with all of my friends and I never tried to recruit them. I think deep down I always knew that something just wasn’t right but I have always believed that my friends are adults and if they don’t want to know about TQ fair enough they don’t need me to tell them what to believe.

I think it is true that TQ has found a way of taking other peoples energy. I remember one of the “top brass” telling me that there are ways to block and take someone’s energy if they weren’t doing what was required. I have also read about Buddhist monks taking energy if they are not on an enlightened path. The mind is incredibly powerful and one really requires honest and ethical people to help develop its power and ensure that their energy is used for good and not negative to harm others. I believe there are lot of good people in the world who use the developed energy of the mind for the good of mankind however there will always use this energy for their own self interests at the expense of others. Of course some people reading this would consider these comments to be quite crazy however when you have experienced it you realise that there definitely is more out there but perhaps the reason we are not all enlightened so to speak is because we are not ready for it.

Disappointed Educoist
Submitted on 2012/05/31 at 6:12 pm

To Anonymous: I am glad to hear that you got your son back and that he is now happily married and away from the body building side of things. I have a friend who was seriously injured after joining the gym and it took over 2 years for the injuries to heal. This is what happens when people with no proper background in personal training are allowed to be let loose on the unsuspecting public. 2 weeks in the Bahamas does not qualify anyone for my money and health in the gym. This is not a properly regulated course with no real accreditation except perhaps The Irish Holistic Association or something similar which is run by Martin Forde and the organisations attempt to appear respectable.

It is not uncommon for people who have attended the seminars to become know all about everything. It is all part of it and the irony is that TQ will then accuse them of such things.

I was surprised to hear about his mother dying of cancer. The official story is that his mother used to tell him that he had something inside of him and when he realised what that was he would be able to make his dreams happen. It may not have been said exactly like that but it is along those lines. I have a friend who knows one of his cousin. This cousin told my friend that he was brought up by his aunts and uncles because his mother suffered from severe depression. When my friend tried to call this cousin again the calls were refused and it transpired that the cousin was back in the fold. Too damaging for them not to be.

TQ routinely will say on his Sunday seminar to change your memories. If you came last tell yourself you came first. While that may work with some people you run the risk of becoming seriously deluded about ones self and you probably could miss opportunities of help because you always think you are the best.

The jealousy among the closest to TQ is quite shocking. It never ceased to amaze me that they could be so rude about each other but be sweetness and light when they see each other. It keeps people under control when they are sniping because there is a lack of trust and that stops them all from talking to each other. some of the comments that have been attributed to TQ about people have appalled me but then there are others who would say he never passes comment about people. This I don’t believe.

Good luck to you and your family and thank you for having the courage to place your post. I can also understand your husbands reluctance it has taken me a long time to write down my experiences. I am genuine and my experiences are authentic but I found it very difficult to write them down for the longest time because I thought it was something in me that I had done wrong.

Submitted on 2012/05/31 at 9:23 pm | In reply to Disappointed Educoist.

Disappointed Educoist; Didn’t notice any bad spelling. Too interested in content. Now that’s a WOW! What a mouthful and I have come to the same conclusion that it is the manipulation of other peoples energy, the goldmine, as he puts it, that he has used over the years. I have gotten so used to thinking that I was crazy it doesn’t really matter any more what other people think of me. God Almighty, we both can’t be crazy for coming to the same conclusion. The people close to him would have stood by and watched him. He obviously went too far with too many of them to cause the havoc ‘brought about’ by his interference of the natural flow of things, if that makes any sense. Jesus help us!!!! Sorry I’m going off on one. Those in the know would have known about this and they used and abused over and over again for their own ends. Is it possible that those close to Tony Quinn were so saturated with his energy that they ‘became him’? They looked and sounded like him. I know, this is getting weird!!! God help them! They are so taken in that they must believe everything he says. I know these people can cause others pain but they need help. Some of them are so far gone they probably don’t recognise themselves in the mirror.

Hopefully there is a class action. It would serve him right. Usually when people pray it is to God, Angels or Guides; the spiritual energy that links us to spirit is what I believe in so I always had a question mark in my mind about where his energy came from as I cannot imagine how he had an easy mind about what he put it into and all he ever referred to it is Life. Maybe there is more for me to work out or maybe not. It is probably a case of coming to terms with what was under our noses for years, but then, religious backgrounds, in the main, do not prepare us for the likes of this. The backlash can be hard when you ask questions. Who would want to admit to all of that? and yet, the signs are there for people to see.

Their advertisements etc, although I would rather see the end of them and the sooner the better, should have a WARNING on them; he talks about expanding the mind, not losing it and losing it would be closer to the truth. They can only get away with it as long as people don’t understand what he is doing.

So, the house in Howth belongs to Glen. He is being used, as they all are and the house is probably in his name only, if you get my drift. I don’t know if any of them would read these e-mails. They probably think TQ, with his special powers, would be on to them and banish them from the fold if they did, but, this is educational material as far as I’m concerned. I hope they do read it. Those who are rejected by the men in Howth house should celebrate because THEY WILL get their lives back and the more help they have to do it the more they will understand how they were taken in by the ones who recruited them. TQ is deluding himself if he thinks people won’t talk about it. It is part of the healing process that they do.

Your comment about ‘not being ready for it’ is so true. To become aware of something as powerful as this requires people who have high moral and ethical standards and I have to believe that there are people in this world who do have these standards and are conscious of their actions. Could this be the real change we must undergo before we are in any position to really help others to change their lives for the better? Is it possible? I cannot see spirit working in any other way. Instead we get someone who is very materialistic and self serving and it has caused so much chaos. People should stay well away from TQ and his ilk. if they think nothing of ‘blocking’ someone just because they are not doing what they want they need to be segregated from the rest of us.

You know you are not crazy and either am I. We asked for the truth and found it. Stay true to yourself!

Submitted on 2012/06/01 at 1:14 pm

To Angie: I am so relieved that I have found someone I can discuss this with. I have held a heavy heart for many years trying to work out if it was all in my mind and if it was something that I have done wrong. I find a lot of the posts about TQ are full of anger and that I understand but I think it is better if peope write their stories with the facts as this would hold more credibility when trying to help others who are also confused. I am not criticisint the angry posts I completely understand but it would not encourage me to get into a dialogue around the subject of TQ.

Funnily enough the night before I went onto the first seminar I had a very strong warning/feeling as I was driving to the airport that I was dealing with the anti-christ and not to go. I have never told anybody this before & I did keep myself on the periphery of the seminar but I probably drew attention to myself by doing this and I would feel energies very clearly. Of course JF was sent in to recruit me back in and of course at the time I was feeling really bad because I didn’t understand what was happening to me. I felt energies on that seminar in way I have never felt them and for the first few months when I returned I continue to feel them. It was quite awful & I had to ask for it all to stop. I was not equipped or prepared for all of this and of course I fell into a dreadful deliberating depression and spent the next number of months trying to work out what was going on.

I was then persuaded to go onto a second seminar and again when I got to the airport I had a very strong premonition not to go and I almost walked out of the airport but I had paid £45,000 and I knew I wouldn’t get the money back.

It was much worse than the first seminar. I am still shocked about what was said to me during that seminar and have only listened to the tape twice. I understand that no-one is a perfect person however TQ took the opportunity to completely destroy me with a bunch of others sitting around agreeing with him. At the end of this session he actually said that I wasn’t that bad and I didn’t deserve all that had been said. Of course it was too late to say that. Again I came back and fell into a depression that sent me suicidal I wasn’t able to work and I think if I hadn’t meditated and read a great deal around these matters I really do dread to think what would have happened.

When I asked for help from the organisation I was told it was normal to to feel like this as I had a lot of clearing to be done. I didn’t know who to talk to and felt that the GP route was not the way. I was pleading with some of them for help I felt so terrible however I was treated with such malice and looked upon as a failure who was trapped in thought and this was from the girls. I kept attending meetings with the hope things would improve and I felt very guilty if I dared question anything. In fact in those meetings it is not encouraged to ask any questions or challenge anything. There is a cohort of people who have permission to speak and if you are outside of this you are basically ignored.

I haven’t been to any meetings for over 18 months now although I had only gone loosely for many years.

I still receive emails and text’s but I just ignore them as I know all about the so called break troughs.  Most of the information is already available if you go looking for it and has been around for a long time.

Energy is such a dangerous thing if not properly channelled and yes I think TQ sucks the energy out of people.

I also agree with your comment that some of them become so like him they begin to believe they are him. I know that sounds strange but I have seen people copy TQ to the point of obsession because they think if they do exactly as he does they will reach the same heights of so called enlightenment.

As for the house in Howth I am led to believe that Glen actually bought the house from TQ a number of years ago. I have never heard anyone say that he was anything but a decent fair landlord although I have seen and heard other things he could be accused of.

I feel that I have been lucky to have friends who were very straight with me about what they thought was strange about the whole thing. I don’t think TQ expected me to have the strength to walk away and to continue to question. I know it took a long time because this and a failed business venture cost me everything I had financially. I was in no state of mind to go into business when I did but unfortunately I wasn’t myself. I have now managed to sort out my finances however I am still in debt around the seminars and I have no idea when I will be any position to pay that money back.

You are not crazy this is what they want you to believe to exonerate themselves from what they are doing. Deep down a lot of them know but as you have said they are in too deep to get out.


Submitted on 2012/06/01 at 4:54 pm | In reply to Disappointed Educoist.

Disappointed Educoist: I had my reply typed out but somehow I lost it. I am rewriting it so if you get two you will understand why.

My heart goes out to you. To put you through such an ordeal was cruel. No, you certainly were not ready for that and I honestly don’t know why they do it accept to get you on more seminars. No one is ready for that as it is very abusive behaviour. It is quite clear to me that they tricked you into going on a second seminar. It seems that their practice is to destroy any sense of self esteem a person has and then sell them another seminar that will supposedly sort them out. Their behaviour was criminal.

Yes, there are posts where people show their anger and I don’t blame them. I feel quite angry myself when I think about what they are getting away with. I cannot stress enough how glad I am that you did not continue with the seminars. You showed great strength of mind. Having friends who care about you is something to hold on to when you are going through an ordeal like this one. I would encourage you to talk about it to your doctor as you are under his care. Is it a fear of being stigmatised with some kind of mental breakdown? Or that you won’t be understood? If your doctor is not aware of what is happening to you he will not be able to support you when you need it. Get as much support as you possibly can. As you know, there is life after experiencing what you did. It is important that you talk about it. Medical professionals need to know what is going on. Any professional body that is involved with health issues need to be informed.

Although I did not go through what you did on earlier seminars I can see that it was building up to that. I had some horrible experiences in the TQ Centre. I could not believe how nasty they were and did not talk about it for a long time to anyone. The danger of keeping in touch with any of them even though you may not have attended classes for a number of years or months, is they will attempt to pull people back in. I was approached to go on the 15,000 and 20,000 euro seminars. I was shocked at the amount and had no intentions of going. What I was not prepared for was the lengths two people went to to get me to go. I honestly thought I was losing my mind. I can also understand the pull they have because, even though I did not have the money to go, for a short time I considered borrowing it. In the end I was so scared by their behaviour I backed off. I had a sense that they were deliberately targeting me and using some kind of abusive mind techniques. I had a sense that they would milk me for every cent I had and even what I did not yet have. I was encouraged to borrow and told what bank to go to and they tell you what to say. And isn’t it strange that a target may be left with a feeling that they have missed out on something when, in reality, they have escaped from possible physical and certainly mental abuse? I was so used to thinking for myself that I couldn’t fall in with what they were suggesting. Yes, it was evident they had no sense of right and wrong. No wonder the country is is such a financial mess. They also advised on where to borrow the money even though I had no collateral and my wages would no have covered such a huge debt.

The fact that TQ and those who work with him have no feelings towards you and others whose lives they have damaged is good enough reason to put an end to these seminars.

Dialogue attached information to their post that helped me understand how so called gurus can misuse yoga. It seems like a well balanced article. Our experiences are quite similar to other groups. I do question why I sat through seminars as most of the content was about TQ boasting about being self educated. He is that al right; a self proclaimed guru. It would seem that he borrows from yoga teachings and uses the most dangerous approaches in his effort to get what he wants and I include sex abuse. Oh yes, he talks about doing things effortlessly. He does that al right; sits on his behind and insults people till they have a nervous breakdown and his workers use the same methods in the TQ Centre. God help these people. Have they any idea of the damage they do?

If there is any way for you to get your money back please do so. It is not right that you are in debt because of people who have no scruples about using mind techniques to convince others to part with such huge sums of money. Even though people who sell seminars were used by TQ what they have participated is fraudulent practice and they need to be held accountable for their actions.Those closest to him must know by now what his game plan is, and was, right from the beginning.

You mention a cohort of people who are chosen to speak in the group. They are picked because they are under the influence of TQ and the person giving the class. You know now this is their way of controlling the others. It is beyond me how they are able to continue when so much information is out there about the destructive effect they have on peoples lives. What is the government doing about it? It is not enough to say that there is no body set up to complain to. This is too serious to be ignored. The Department of Justice and Education need to read about and listen to complaints and issues of abuse that are arising because of groups like TQ’s . There is a need for educational material and there is a need to start in schools to increase awareness as how else can they protect themselves?

I eventually got counselling that helped me on the road to recovery. There are not many out there trained in counselling in this particular area. It is time something is done about this too! Stay true to yourself!

Submitted on 2012/06/01 at 5:17 pm | In reply to Disappointed Educoist.

Disappointed Educoist: I was so angry about what happened to you when I first read your post that I did not take in your description of the energy you felt and that it was so uncomfortable for you that you wanted it to stop. I am familiar with that too. It felt like I was being invaded by someone else. I can fully understand why you would be concerned about what other people thought about it. I don’t fully understand it myself accept in terms of someone else trying to take over my life. TQ does talk about connecting with people and a lot of time is spent doing this particularly in your type of situation.This is another method of keeping control of people; making them feel special that they are accepted into the group and then abused until they comply with what they want. It could be what ‘top brass’ was talking about ie blocking and even increasing energy. Even though it is a concept that many would find hard to believe I think that connection is used to manipulate a person’s energy and even to influence them by. We cannot dismiss his use of hypnosis either. I spent months telling it to get away from me as if it was the devil himself. I was advised by someone who had come across similar fears to pray to the Arch Angel Michael for protection. Since I had a catholic upbringing it seemed like an ok thing to do. For me it works.

What dangerous games they play.

Submitted on 2012/06/01 at 10:43 pm

Disappointed Educoist: You have an enquiring mind and so do I and mine is working overtime here making sense of what happened. Firstly, we all have a source of energy otherwise we would not be alive. What they do is overwhelm people with their way of thinking and their energy. It occurred to me that when TQ talked about our energy getting pushed down because of our conditioning, (and by the way, I don’t believe this) is he not actually doing the same? Conditioning can be done very subtly or over the top as happened to us. When a person has an innate sense of self and is overwhelmed by another would that not damage it and cause terrible confusion and uncertainty? It takes away a person’s ability to be in control of their life. I remember reading an article a number of years ago about a woman who had a nervous breakdown on a seminar and she was hospitalised. At the end of the article Martin Forde made some remark that ‘people let it happen’ or some such. In other words, they allow themselves to be taken over and the impression I got was if they allowed it, well, then he was going to do it. He didn’t explain how he got the person into that state in the first place. He certainly gave no indication that a person might not be in the right state of mind to stop him. Unfortunately it is usually after it happens that they get a sense that something was done to them that leaves a horrible feeling and possibly terrible anger that may be internalised.

I hope our posts reach many many people and I’ll take the opportunity to say to those who are feeling detached or overwhelmed or who are experiencing disturbing feelings to GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!!! When you recognise the signs of it, and knowing why they do it, walk away and don’t go back. Yes, you might feel depressed or worse and it takes a lot of strength to go through it, but, is that not preferable than allowing someone who obviously has no respect for you to use you? Keep faith with yourself. Whatever excuses they make such as, ‘you need a lot of clearing out’, just realise they are talking through their you know what. If you are in mental pain because of what they have done it is a sign that something has gone very badly wrong and IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!

Stay true to yourself!


49 Responses

  1. This page is one of the most insightful, and also the most painful, to read. It’s Relieved’s story that spurs me on. Believe me; I’m gonna need that spirit.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. I have just chatted with a lady on Linked In who recommended Tamar. But this lady says her account was hacked into and she found a lot of messages to Tamar not attributable to her. This is criminal activity in my book. Just had to let you know!


  3. Many people were harrassed to attend seminars and, presently, workers in Boylesports are being harrassed to attend relaxation/hypnosis sessions under the guise of various courses. I would class this as harrassment. It would seem that individuals need to come forward and discuss this with the Gardai. As Gorgina Dolan is being quite crafty to cover what is really going on ie Tony Quinn agenda, Boylesports workers need legal advice on the best course of action to take to protect their rights.

    On a personal note, does it matter how many years have elapsed to bring a charge of harrassment and physical damage against ‘top brass’ in the centre?

    At this stage, it is up to the many individuals who have been harrassed and distressed by their actions to consider taking advice. From the posts received in Dialogue it is clear that it takes time for people to adjust back into their lives and this needs consideration by the law. In the present situation with the Tony Quinn group, is a time lapse acceptable? It many take a number of years, even with the help of therapists, before an individual is ready to take action.


    This the current situation on a government response:
    DÁIL QUESTION addressed to the Minister for Justice and Equality (Mr. Shatter) by Deputy Paschal Donohoe
    Posted on February 4, 2012 by dialogueireland | Edit

    We were grateful in Dialogue Ireland when Deputy Paschal Donohoe asked this question at the request of the Director of Dialogue Ireland who is a constituent of his.

    Our charitable status prevents us from lobbying government. However, we will opening up our blog for comment to the general public to advance the understanding of cultism referencing Irish charitable law and other expert opinion.

    The Deputy will appreciate that the word ‘cult’ is a chameleon-hued word that may gets its colours in any given context from the subjective views of the speaker, and that there are no clear, specific, manageable, and universally accepted criteria for identifying cults.

    Existing Irish law seems to be pretty specific. This extract is from the Charities Act 2009:

    For the purposes of this section, a gift is not a gift for the advancement of religion if it is made to or for the benefit of an organisation or cult—
    (a) the principal object of which is the making of profit, or
    (b) that employs oppressive psychological manipulation—
    (i) of its followers, or
    (ii) for the purpose of gaining new followers.

    We also show how other jurisdictions deal with this issue. We will be putting forward the view that this issue should not be dealt with reference to Article 44 which the reply proposed as the reference point for this debate, specifically in relation to freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. We would argue that the issue is not about freedom of religion but about group influences and the field of undue influence. No one’s beliefs are under scrutiny rather it is the actions resulting from power, manipulation and control which lead to the loss of freedom. The statement that, “It is of course a reality that one person’s cult may be another person’s faith,” is commonly used to relativise the experience of those who encounter cultism, cultist tendencies and attitudes found in the cultic milieu. To use a medical analogy one person’s cancer is another person’s health? Most people understand that N. Korea is a cultist state, and that S. Korea is a democracy. Most people understand that the Catholic Church is a genuine Confession of the Christian religion, but they also realise that it can have cultist tendencies and attitudes in relation to the issue of its response to child sexual abuse and vulnerable adults. However, it was not the religious or theological content that defines whether a group is a cult or not, but rather whether it controls and removes the person’s autonomy and renders infantile its members as we find in such groups referenced here on our site. People can distinguish between a genuine psychotherapy centre and one that leads to loss of mental independence. A group like The House of Prayer claims to be an authentic expression of Catholicism whereas it has been involved in a systematic form of elder abuse, financial scandal and has a small cohort unable to think rationally.

    We see no problem in JW’s believing in Jehovah, but when they advocate that an adult member should not be allowed to have a blood transfusion as they did in 2006 that belief cannot be allowed in a democratic society. The reply is that a person has a right to resist a medical intervention at variance with their beliefs, however, this fails to understand the group processes which inform this decision. The JW’s are usually saved by the intervention of the courts, but there should be an ethics committee to scrutinise these beliefs. There is no biblical scholar in the world who would support their interpretation of blood transfusion, and they do not have one single scholar themselves who could defend this view.

    The consequences are a violation of children’s rights as well as since this appalling doctrine was espoused thousands of children have died.

    Tony Quinn has managed to bring a significant group of people under his influence and his overwhelming control leaves many floundering. We have noted that many good people are unable to break free from this conditioning. Scientology would like to clear the planet so it is not surprising that Germany regards their presence as a threat to their constitution. Here in Ireland they have managed to ‘ruin’ a number of lives but they have not had any success in advancing what they call their religion. They have not obtained charitable status. LR Hubbard their founder tried to establish a Scientology presence in South Africa at the peak of the Apartheid regime. He was going to solve the race problem! He then tried to get Rhodesia to allow him to establish a kind of ‘Hubbardtown’ there.

    We invite those victims and survivors to use our comment section to make our political class aware of their experience, so that no one will ever use such relativistic statement to undermine the gulag that cultism involves! “It is of course a reality that one person’s cult may be another person’s faith”


    DÁIL QUESTION addressed to the Minister for Justice and Equality (Mr. Shatter)
    by Deputy Paschal Donohoe
    for WRITTEN on Thursday, 19th May, 2011.

    * To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if his attention has been drawn to the danger posed by the development of cults within Ireland; if he has a working group or plan in relation to this issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

    – Paschal Donohoe

    The Deputy will appreciate that the word ‘cult’ is a chameleon-hued word that may gets its colours in any given context from the subjective views of the speaker, and that there are no clear, specific, manageable, and universally accepted criteria for identifying cults.

    In our constitutional democracy, as the Deputy knows, we have a firm constitutional guarantee, in Article 44, of freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. A person’s convictions about ultimate concerns such as the meaning of life and the purpose of existence and how to live a life of worth and value is a profound part of the privacies of life and existential thought. It is of course a reality that one person’s cult may be another person’s faith.

    It is self-evident, however, that no one may engage in conduct that is directed at a specific person and causes substantial distress to that person, even for the purposes of forcing that person to join or belong to a religious group. In this connection, it may be helpful to point out that section 10 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 provides for the offence of harassment. Thus, any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, by any means including by use of the telephone, harasses another by persistently following, watching, pestering, besetting or communicating with him or her, commits the offence of harassment. Moreover, a person harasses another when (a) he or she, by his or her acts intentionally or recklessly, seriously interferes with the other’s peace and privacy or causes alarm, distress or harm to the other, and (b) his or her acts are such that a reasonable person would realise that the acts would seriously interfere with the other’s peace and privacy or cause alarm, distress or harm to the other.

    The Deputy might also note that, under section 10(3) of the 1997 Act, when a person is found guilty of this offence, the court may, in addition to or as an alternative to any other penalty, order that the person must not, for such period as the court may specify, communicate by any means with the other person or that the person shall not approach within such distance as the court shall specify of the place of residence or employment of the other person. To answer the Deputy’s second question, I have at the moment no plan to set up a working group to study the subject of cults.


  5. Tricia, I know how you feel. When the truth dawns it is shocking. I don’t know why nothing has happened about getting TQ centres closed down and recruiting stopped. It is probably some law that protects peoples right to trade although I think the government and the law should take into consideration the evidence coming from people to were abused and conned into going on seminars and, in particular, the methods used to seduce people into the centres. Maybe Dialogue will explain why they have not been forced to closure.

    There are impending court cases due a hearding, one being Maire Lalor which you have probably heard about. I’d expect it will make a huge impact. If such a case were to fail we would have no choice, and I refer to everyone concerned including ex-quinnites and ex-educoists, to stand up and make a lot of noise and demand to be heard similar to Scientology.

    Unfortunately, those who need this information the most are told to avoid reading Dialogue, that it is ‘negative’ and ‘not true’, although I think this is changing due to the recent courtcase. Newspapers seem reluctant to put the truth out there as people seem reluctant to be singled out for fear of the ‘backlash’ and without personal stories the papers avoid publishing in case they are sued for slander.

    Has your family member heard about what is being said about Tony Quinn? She may be finding it difficult to accept. People who are deemed ‘negative’ are not listened to when they bring up very valid points about their experiences on the seminars and in ‘Success for Living’ classes. The conclusion I have come to is that Tony Quinn has control of these people and with the use of regular hynotic suggestions, himself and his ‘tutors of philosophy’ keep them locked in to believing his distorted views. I was told by one of the ‘top brass’ that he could wipe out a person’s past memories. Whether this is true or not I do think that their minds are trained, from so much so called relaxation, that it could block them from the past and cause a rift or permanent separation from family and friends.

    Their psychotherapy courses never touched on problems in peoples lives as they had their answer to this with their ‘Postal Request System’. According to Quinn anything and everything can have a good outcome when prayed over. Many are so taken up with this that it takes a while to realise that very little changes and in certain circumstances actually gets worse; it is their minds that are changed and if someone disagrees with what they now believe, they ignore them. It would cause too much discomfort to Tony Quinn and his followers to deal with differences of opinion. He conditions them to accept his view of the world, as you know.

    Like you I have come to realise that he needs to be stopped before anymore damage is done and his methods explained to those who are caught up in it. I spoke about what happened to me with GP’s and hospital staff and a Specialist and counsellors and this information, to my knowledge, is not passed on to the Gardai or the Government. It’s time the Irish Government got their act together and shut down known cult like groups that people have complained about and make it standard practice to report abuse in cults. The only one who is interested, it seems, is the tax revenue.

    I want TONY QUINN CHARGED AND LOCKED UP IN PRISON and the public informed about what these type of groups are capable of. They tap into or create a need and that’s hard enough to resist when it focuses on commercial goods. When it comes to mental health the public need to be warned!

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Angie and ex quinn members,having read your posts,which must have taken great courage to write, have absolutely shocked me.As one of my family is still in that sect/cult and on occasion over the years I have been to visit some of the houses and always sensed a repulsive negative energy around quinn.
    The suffering and untold damage done by tq must surely be addressed.
    Surely GPs and councellors have a duty to report such abuse to the police,as they do with child abuse,or is it like the church where they have a law unto themselves?
    PLEASE please someone bring that ‘ Mindless control freak’ to justice!


  7. The American Council of Hypnosis Examiners (USA) we know is bogus if it is the same place TQ got his qualification from. Since, and I use his full title, Dr. Joe E. Keaney is not accredited how can he give accreditation to people he trains? His advertisement looks squeaky clean and yet the whole area of hypnotherapy becomes more and more disturbing when I note a total lack of accreditation. There seems to be a reluctance, even on the part of those who are geneally accepted, to get together and sort it out.

    For example, I am aware of the proliferation of psychotherapy courses available to the public. This type of course attracts those who are between jobs or want to change their career and some are genuine but I feel that professions need to have checks put in place to protect the public. For instance, questions need to be asked about where they received diplomas, certificates, etc., Are they a past/current member of a cultish group like the Tony Quinn set-up? How many years have they studied psychotherapy? Was their any particular slant in the material they studied? There were concessions made for those who are not acedemically inclined in the Tony Quinn Centre and, as far as I’m concerned, it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.

    Of course, there are some genuine people who studied in Eccles Street and did not go on to involve themselves with Quinn but, unfortunately, there are many who need counselling to break away from the hold he may still have even though they have not associated with the group for years. Can counsellors report their findings to the Gardai? Are they obliged to do so?

    The sexual abuse and cover-up by the catholic church was abhorrent and, unfortunately, it is similar to the cover-up in the TQ organisation. Will long-term staff, and people who work with him on seminars, be charged with aiding and abetting TQ’s consistant behaviour of abuse, particularly sexual abuse? Regardless of how much control he had over their lives are they not aware of their collusion in his criminals acts?

    Why is there a lack of information going out to the public? How can the government justify their allowing TQ outlets to continue trading when they are used solely for recruiting? There is a huge need, particularly for those concerned, for some kind of information documentary focusing on why the law, as it stands, cannot protect the people of this country!


    Here we have the same training system as Tony Quinn. The American Institute which we referenced in an earlier comment on TQ’s education. Here Joseph Keaney claims to be a Phd not just a doctor. He then is at the centre of issuing accreditation based on the assumption that his doctorate is valid. The TQ post will clarify this for you:
    Contact him here


  9. Do send us a private email with the details and we can look into it!


  10. In Ireland we have which offers hypnotherapy. Alas, there are no names to the people who offer the service. It’s just pot luck who you get, I suppose.

    There is a dire need for regulation in this area. Is there anyone checking it out and reporting on the proliferation of would be hypnotists who may not have expert training in this field? How long are these courses?

    There is a Hypnoclinic Ballinlough andTuckey Street, Cork. No names given.


  11. Hi Dialogue: I got handed a card outside Blackrock Dart station, he will remain un-named unless otherwised advised, offering treatment in the Hypnotherapy Clinic in South County Dublin. This, by the way, is the same area I was approached to do a hypnotherapy course.

    The hypnoclinic online seems to have it’s base in the uk. I wonder if he works from the Blackrock Market? A dive of a place. Cutting overheads, you know. Or is he connected with Educo gym? You get a 20% discount when you have the card. By the way, the letters behind his name shows a lack of previous education in any area of therapy other than Hynotherapy. I copy:

    ‘Gastric Band Hypnotherapy, Weight Loss, Stop Smoking, Concentration and Focus, Self Esteem Issues, Motivation, Panic, Anxiety, Fears, Phobias, IBS, C & D, Stress, Exam Stress, Relaxation, Pain Control and Habit Disorder are among many of the therapies offered’.

    It reminds me too much of what they already do. For instance, Weight Loss, Concentration and Focus, Exam Stress, Relaxation, Pain Control and, of course, not forgetting the ‘many of the therapies offered’, whatever they are. I can only pray that no-one takes him seriously. What do the initials RC HYP. Dip Hyp. MACHI stand for?

    I smell a rat.


  12. Have you read Cult Awareness and Information Library with article Recovery from Religious Abuse by Eric Merrill Budd? Very informative.


  13. I have viewed and read about John Boyle’s success story. Listening to that alone gave no indication of his past success; his natural talent at making a profit and his move into online gambling in 2002, the year he went on a seminar, would have generated a huge profit with no input from Tony Quinn. I was very disturbed to hear about his talks given in schools; how easy it was to promote Tony Quinn seminars. What schools is he referring to and has anything been done to counteract the influence he may have had with these children?

    I’ve also read ‘Clerical Whispers’. I cannot adequately describe how I feel right now, in fact, I’m speechless. So many peoples lives ruined. I did not know the half of it. My heart goes out to them.

    All my posts, recently, are based on what happened to me and those who have posted in response. The treatment meted down by Aideen Cowman, Margaret and Martin Forde was good enough reason alone to call for the government and the law to look at what is going on and, also, my concern for other Tony Quinn trained hypnotists who think nothing of practicing on unsuspecting people. Being hypnotised into working for Tony Quinn is something I know about. My ‘life energy’, that TQ tells us to use, told me, in no uncertain terms, to get away from them. I knew enough about what they were doing to realise that my life would not be my own if I took that step they were forcing me into. Aideen Cowman boasted about not being paid and encouraged others to do the same. Making any contribution to their criminal activity is abhorrent.

    This ‘disease’ of Tony Quinn warrents cauterisation.


  14. Hi Disappointed Educoist: I’m wondering what the response is to the above support offered by Dialogue. Are ex-educoists responding? Some, like myself, are getting counselling. I am still in two minds about it. What happened the last time that caused it to break up?

    I know from your posts that you were disappointed about not seeing colours and pictures etc., and I’ve been thinking about it. For a long time I have noticed the need for, in this type of group, a high level of energy for anything to happen. I would say that this phenomena does not happen very often to individuals using their own level of energy and it would be impossible to do if you were set up to attact negative energy. I also think, and this may sound very far fetched, that a link between two people can be achieved that enables picture and thought transference as well as energy transference. What I believe to be the case with many, is that this type of experience is taken as proof that working with Tony Quinn is some kind of divine plan. I never accepted that. It can happen with other people with high energy who have nothing to do with Tony Quinn.

    The psychotherapy course in Eccles Street showed his interest in mesmerism and crowd reaction. Pavlov’s dog was also included as it was a study in trained responses. I witnessed a person who tutored there, take an opportunity to show off his skill to another, without, I may add, the consent of the person he was doing it to but that did not seem to matter to him. Their are no ethical standards included on the course and none adhered to in practice. Anyone trained in the Tony Quinn Centre would need to be aware of any propensity to use manipulative techniques with their clients to get the result THEY want. Using hypnosis, particularly if they are not advertised as hypnotists, should be a criminal offence.

    There is far more involved in their set-up than meets the eye of ordinary people. Seeing colours and auras is a means of attracting people. Like Pavlov’s dog they get a positive response when they talk about what a great experience they had. These experiences are not a reason to feel obligated to stay with a group. Any ability, when used for the wrong purpose, is detrimental. Stay true to yourself!


  15. Think of Drinking
    1. Recovery by stopping drinking= Leave Quinn
    2. Join AA =Support group with people who are clearly out
    3. Alon for those families affected. = Specific care to understand cultism
    4. No action or writing Newspapers articles, or TV just recovery and gaining one’s self back.
    5. Addressing your financial responsibilities.
    6. Continued individual professional and self help through a survivors group, possibility of using the Burlington Hotel!
    7. DI assists that strategy but the group makes the decisions when they are ready to move in that direction.
    My suggestion contact us in the strictest confidence and we can link you with each other. Not rocket science.
    8. Direct action when when ones head is ok.




    Phone: 353 -1- 8309384 or mobile 353 – 87 2396229
    Sykpe: mikergarde
    7/8 Lr Abbey St; Dublin 1
    Web site
    Blog site
    Charity number: CHY 14004

    IRELAND and IRISH representative on the
    General Assembly of the European Federation
    of Centres for Research and Information on Sects
    & Cults (FECRIS).

    Liked by 1 person

  16. May I suggest you contact me by phone to discuss your situation. We once had a TQ support group for ex’s. All is possible!


  17. This is an excellent idea and could involve a process of listening to testimony and having some professionals who understand the cult dynamic present.
    Note how ex Scientologists are organising such an event at the end of the month!
    We are severely limited and have no funding other than the donations we receive from the public. Another dynamic that ex Educoists need to address is that there is not a tradition of taking responsibility for one’s recovery because you have been programmed to use other people’s money. Do call me and we can talk about different options.


  18. To Disappointed Educoist: It would be great if this post is read by many many people who attended seminars or thinking of going on seminars. It may resolve some issues that arise before a seminar and following the seminar and also explain the very strange behaviour they encounter from Quinn and his workers, those in the TQ centre and, of course, his helpers on the seminars.

    I don’t know you personally but I feel we have shared something that has helped us both and, hopefully, give others the courage to post their stories.

    As always – Stay true to yourself!


  19. To tqnomore: I know of two men who were asked to leave years ago. They both ‘lived’ for Tony Quinn. At the time I assumed it was for a good reason. Months later I met one of them who was practicing ki-massage from his home. He was, and probably still is, a lovely person. He was totally taken in by Tony Quinn. From his appearance, and his admission, he was drinking heavily since he stopped working for them. I met the other man about a couple of years later. He had undergone an operation and treatment for a brain tumour. There was a drastic change in his appearance. I could barely speak to him and felt very sad, for a long time, if I thought about him. I was told by someone who knew him that he was taking drugs while he worked for Tony Quinn. Of course, now I know, at that time, they welcomed anyone who agreed to work for nothing or very little. As long as they looked the part and spoke about Tony as if he was God they were in.

    It is very sad that people lose their direction in life when they go on TQ seminars. It would be a great help if they could talk about what they are going through and get the help and support they need to pull through. You will find information you need, If you scroll back to a post from Dialogue on 11th June 2012, to pass on to people you know who need support and Dialogue also give advice on counsellors. It is bad enough that people go through a terrible time after a seminar without having to struggle on their own for the rest of their lives. Dialogue suggested we protest outside the Tony Quinn centre. What do you think of that idea?


  20. To Angie: I for one am extremley glad that you did not keep your mouth shut so too speak. Your posts were certainly the reason why I posted mine. It was such a relief to read posts of someone else who had so many questions. Through these posts I hope my story has been able to help others realise that they are not going mad and are not alone when they come down from the Educo high after the seminar/s. I am sure that your posts have also helped. You ask all the right questions. I only wish I was like you and had listened to my own intuition that clearly warned me against going to these seminars.

    Lets also hope that others will join into this discussion and protection from these people from the questionable techniques that have been used will be forthcoming in the form of laws to prevent this kind of thing from happening to other people.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. To tqnomore: I appreciate your reply to my posts. It is quite amazing as to how many people have had similar experiences on the seminars. Of course you are kept away from each other and I was even told that if TQ’s methods don’t work that I was the only person this would have had this happen to me. Everyone was successful in their words. I was very naive in believing this and brainwashed.

    I feel sick to the stomach when anyone mentions Jim Fitzgerald’s name or I even think about him. I can’t begin to describe what treatment was metered out to me especially on the 2nd seminar as I wasn’t conforming at all. What happened on the first seminar also makes me sick to the stomach but somehow I have taken on board that I was responsible for what happened. Of course again it is all hypnosis and apart of the game to get you to do what they want. The whole thing is set up to abuse vunerable men and women and I was incredibly vunerable at this time.

    I am very glad that you have managed to get away from this. Isn’t so sad that the very people who were looking for help after an already difficult experience end up back where they started all because of the delusions and greed of one man.

    I was really only on the pheriphery of this organisation I can’t even begin to imagine what goes on among those really close to him.

    Dialouge Ireland do have the names of counsellors who can help people who have been affected by this kind of abusive brainwashing.


  22. Thank you Disappointed Educoist for stirring in me what I have felt for so many years. Like you I find it interesting that there are now allegations of rape and sexual misconduct against Tony Quinn and his cronies. I had heard rumours but when I questioned this I was told it was all gossip, so typical to quell unrest amongst people who question I now realise.

    Like you the discussion by Quinn cronies on seminars for the umteenth time the discuss lead to to how much they fancy him? This was designed I now know to plant seeds in all of us using the techniques hypnotically designed to enhance Quinn’s ego.

    Like You I found teh treatment doled out by I Jim Fitzgerald his assistant replusive and abnoxious. It look me years to understand that this had nothing to do with me but was all part of the game to get you to conform.

    The depression you felt is a common thread amongst many who attend and try to brave it out but it gets such a grip it is hard you are not alone in not being able to work because of this interference.
    I have not ever suffered from depression but I know lots of people who have been on seminars who do. I also know lots of former alcholics who were dry for many years and turned back to alchol after seminars and have yo yoed back and forward since. While any addiction or illness is within the body, somehow having this raw experience takes away the normal mechanisms to help and control because you are led to beleive in the power of what you have learned. That turns out ot be nothing but abuse.

    People coming together and opening presenting their information in this forum does help. Your letter has helped me understand many things that went on. Maybe it is time for DI to have open help in some way for recovering people.

    Liked by 1 person

  23. To Disappointed Educoist: We know he uses other peoples energy and you were one of them. He cannot do it by himself. Why would he bother with you when there are other people seemingly willing to go along with him, who have ‘aligned’ themselves with him? When I remember back to what happened to me I know they took me somewhere very dark; that place was full of malice, hate, terrible anger and violence. I had never experienced anything like it before in my life. I felt violated; robbed of something precious and vital to my wellbeing; it separated me from any feelings of connection with family. I could not trust anyone. It does not surprise me that I questioned my sanity. I hope people who attend the centre read this. If they questioned my experience they are told that it must be something about me that caused it; lies upon lies. I know better. I have always known better.

    Why was I ‘punished’? Is it because I witnessed incidents that told the truth about the set-up; how people are bullied and fooled into working for TQ? Is it because I knew in my heart that Tony Quinn was not Jesus or God and nowhere close to it? It could also have to do with their knowing that I would not keep my mouth shut or curl up somewhere in fear of methods they use to frighten me? If it left visible marks there is a case for assault. It leaves marks where no-one can see them accept those who are trained in Psychiatry and Psychology, etc., Experts in this field are doing THEIR research. When is it going to be published?

    From your discription of what took place, the first thought that entered my mind was TONY QUINN HAS LOST THE PLOT!!! Tony Quinn has always suffered from delusions. I can’t believe that events like this are allowed to continue considering the evidence of what takes place. Tony Quinn’s research does not come close to anything that fulfils his need to be considered some kind of worldwide teacher. Instead, he threads the path of INFAMY and MADNESS.

    We have heard about his bogus credentials and ask “Where has he done his research?” You are a witness to his research. It goes on under peoples noses all the time. People in the audience and those on stage are used to demonstrate what he can do. There is nothing in it for them although to listen to them you might be fooled into thinking otherwise. BE GLAD YOU ARE NOT PART OF IT NOW. God help those people.Will they be the next group of puppets to replace the old? Maybe the old ones are skulking off somewhere. If we had justice in this country they’d be behind bars.

    Other countries have put a stop to it. A law that protects the likes of Tony Quinn should be flexible enough to, at least, give the government the right to close these places and question what is going on.

    Again, thank you for your honesty and courage. Stay true to yourself!

    Liked by 1 person

  24. To Angie: I agree with your assessment that TQ was interested in starting a new religion. I have heard him make reference to Hubbard from scientology say the best way to make money is to start a religion. Certainly the continual references to Jesus Christ and the constant inferring by the hard core followers that he was an incarnation of Jesus Christ has all the hall marks of religion.

    On one Sunday Seminar there were a team of people on the stage that were hand picked Glen, Tamar, Babu and a few others whom I didn’t know who they were and these people were built up to be part of his latest group of disciples that we were all suppossed to take some kind of leadership from them. What I don’t know but at that time they were put upon some kind of pedestal and we were to all aspire to be like them.

    The last time I saw this was when we were told TQ had the latest group of mind masters with him and we were told that these people would be seen as disciples one day that this time was the start of a new world. This would have been about 18 months ago.

    For me this was the end I was already when I saw the team on the stage thinking he had lost the plot just by some of the personalities that had been chosen were some of the most unpleasant people one could ever meet with their treatment of others, But of course it is all part of the conditioning.

    I also had experiences of the blackness during the relaxation sessions. When I asked why I could only see black I was informed by a number of people this is because my mind works too fast so I wouldn’t be able see anything. I used to become very upset of my lack of being able to form pictures and colours in my mind and would become quite distressed and see myself as a huge failure due to this. I too felt terrible violence and anger which was quite out of character for me to feel anger to this intensity. I also found this very frightening and would cry quite uncontrollably for a while and then I would calm down. I have never spoken of this so it is a relief to see that I am not alone in these kind of reactions. I really not wish those feelings upon anyone.

    I used to sit in meetings and watch big black balls of light bounce off some people. I don’t know if that sounds strange but it is true. It didn’t frighten me but I was intrigued as to why I would see this. It is not something I discussed with anyone I thought it was possibly just the way the light was.Most of the time in the weekly meetings I was quite bored and didn’t go very often as I certainly wasn’t getting any kind of spiritual solace from them and as I was always ignored or spoken to rather rudely I gave up making any effort in engaging with most people. I am so glad they treated me this way as it really helped me see what this organisation was a lot quicker than a lot of people and helped keep me asking questions.

    I was interested in the comment around blind faith. I have always had difficulty with blind faith as I require to see the proof. TQ would always try to prevent educoists from knowledge or having an opinion unless of course it was his course or his opinion they were adopting. Of course after becoming mixed up with this I took on an element of blind faith but had a huge struggle at the same time.

    It always appeared very strange that TQ would not publically speak regarding his philosophys or publish any books. There has been talk about books but nothing forthcoming apart from the newspaper. This never made any sense.

    You were very lucky that you said no to the seminar. I admire your spiritual faith and strength of character in resisting this. Its shocking that you were subjected to such lengths to try an intimidate you onto a seminar.


  25. To Dialogue: Taking the time to watch previous tv programmes is broading my understanding of how language is used to manipulate the mind. Dr. Sean Collins explained it well but there is nothing like watching it in action re Martin Forde’s explanation of EDUCO. He has a way of communicating it as fact, a ‘blind’ belief in Tony Quinn’s teachings.

    The language used in ‘Marcus’ by those who attended seminars is indicative of the mode of communication learned on a TQ seminar. Prior to the singing audition Marcus looked and felt estatic and mentioned he did not know why. I recognise it as a preset programme, that no matter what the odds, he was set up to believe he would succeed. Unfortunately, he learned the hard way. His love of music was obvious and I hope he continues to play the piano, deriving the same level of satisfaction he got before his experience with TQ.


  26. To Help? Thank you for your dialogue. It is encouraging to know that psychiatry recognises the symtoms and includes the results of ‘programming’ by Tony Quinn in their assessment of PTS disorder.

    I was diagnosed, by my first counsellor, with this disorder. I tried a few counsellors, but, however well-meaning they were, it was disappointing to realise they had no knowledge of what I needed to recover. I am fortunate to say, this is no longer the case. Dialogue was instrumental in pointing me in the right direction.

    I understand a case will be heard in June re oil business but is there, currently, a court case pending that will set the precedent for extq to come forward? If so, when is it due to be heard? I agree that the law has a role to play in this. It is too serious to ignore!


  27. THanks Help for that observation and clear understanding of PTS disorder and also of the high level of proof required for a legal case. First of all cult leaders generally delay delay delay delay in regard to legal challenges and then settle. This is the only professional centre I am aware of that addresses the condition you refer to. I have worked with them and knew the founder.
    He served as an Expert Witness in 29 legal/court cases as a psychologist who testified to the role of “brainwashing” causing behavioral changes, including the Muhammed/Malvo DC sniper trial and the recent terrorist legal case of Zacharias Moussaoui. He also worked with several special intelligence projects.
    I remember how long it took to be able to say that the young man in this case was brainwashed! Muhammed/Malvo DC sniper trial


  28. Angie, it’s interesting to see what you say about the Public Health etc. I went for an assessment with a psychiatrist after I left the Tony Quinn group. He told me that I had experienced years of brainwashing. I asked him if that was an official diagnosis and he said yes, that nowadays the Psychiatric Profession has had to accept that such things happen. He said that if I had been in prison or was kidnapped or even if I was soldiering in Iraq for those years I would have to go through what is called a “debriefing” which would serve to help you lose the programs you had picked up from the influence of the experience. Because in Ireland there is little understanding of cults there is no governance or indeed no help or “debriefing” facility for people who suffer the effects.

    One of the good things that could come out of a court case with the like of Tony Quinn or some of these cults would be that it would set a precedent in Ireland for bringing undue influence into law and maybe finally getting someone in government to recognize it as an area that needs attention. We know what the undue influence of priests did on young children and familes over the years, what Hitler’s influence did to people. It’s all mind control and misuse of power and it’s extremely damaging and extremely dangerous. How is the undue influence of the like of Tony Quinn any different? People need to ask their courts to police this area!


  29. Take into account that Sean Collins had to be careful as he had obtained his qualifications from the same place.
    Also this was 10 years ago. We have a lot more info and I would say you have put your finger on an important point.
    We as an organisation were quite naive in believing in this idea that he started ok and then went off. I agree that he was like this from day one.
    What we discover is that it is even worse than we can ever believe. Two women contacted me after that TV3 documentary and told me about very abusive relations with him.
    One so damaged she never recovered the other is very hurt. I am waiting to give evidence in an Irish court. I have been concerned about Quinn for nearly 30 years. However, my awareness was increased in early 2009 when I was the subject of a massive DOS attack on the week end TQ was holding a seminar at the RDS by persons unknown.
    Here is how a talented young was reduced to a sad state by Quinn:
    Also one of the leading experts on Hypnosis in the UK and someone with an actual doctorate, Dr John Butler took the former Director of the BBC Greg Dyck into the world of Quinn.
    As people educate themselves as you are doing the next question is what do we do?
    This is not exactly the same but taking on the organisation by having protests outside Eccles St and wherever he has an event would be a good focus to make the public aware of what is happening to you.
    This was a good start in 2009, but it needs to grow legs
    Here is a very focussed Conference which will give great strength to those who were conned.


  30. To Dialogue re Holy Cross Conference on Saturday 31 October 2001.

    I just finished listening to the talk given by Dr. Sean Collins and it was very tame. When he explained the process of hypnosis, as in, the conscious mind being put out of action ie the critical part is inactivated, and the information goes to the unconscious mind without being avaluated; all of this I understand perfectly. He did not speak about how hypnosis can be done when a person is TOTALLY UNAWARE of what is happening. He does not mention how it is used to deliberately make particular suggestions to individual people while in this state rather than the whole group (and I am referring to what happens in the Tony Quinn Centre) and how these suggestions can have a very damaging effect. When a person does not remember what took place accept seeing the colour black or, sporadically, goes in and out of conscious awareness, remembering what was said and the sensation of what was being done, this cannot be discounted as something imagined. Not only does it happen, there is nothing else but a nasty intention to hurt that person.

    Unlike Dr. Sean Collins who believed that TQ started out with an interest in health etc., I stand by my instinct about Tony Quinn being totally aware of what he was doing from the beginning. His focus on building a following and creating a new religion was his intention. I have no doubt about this no matter how much he/they deny it. I’ve had enough experience talking to groups similar to this one to know how people can come up with the most outrageous beliefs and actually accept them. Tony Quinn admitted, on an earlier seminar, that he had read a lot on indian religious cultures and, from where I’m standing, this material was used to start a new religion. It was a cult from the beginning. Somehow he convinced the few people that he is the reincarnation of Jesus and they are reincarnations of his diciples (Gerry Kerr explains in his talk at the conference). How many diciples has he managed to hold on to, I wonder? Tony Quinn’s game has changed since then although it sounds like some of them still believe the original ie ‘he is your saviour’ said to the woman going to Egypt.

    Collins went far too easy on him. When it comes to the ‘truth’ of what is going on someone needs to call a spade a spade. Tony Quinn has changed his game plan so many times there is no longer any truth in what he says and this is why he never speaks publicly to people who are mentally capable of seeing through what he preaches. Yes, call a spade a spade – he fancies himself a ‘preacher’ and a very rich one. His advice on redirecting the anger is good. That too, is generated by the nasty goings on of the Tony Quinn people.

    It was interesting to hear the couple speaking about their experiences leading up to the seminars. Both were talked into doing courses.

    Considering what I went through, I know the woman’s mental health was at risk during the six weeks leading to the seminar. A lot more could be said about this. There is plenty of room for discussion about what is involved in talking a person, with no previous knowledge of Tony Quinn, into going on a very expensive seminar. What happened during the six week period that convinced someone to part with 15,000 euros to get a better night’s sleep? What brought on this desperate need?

    Is the medical profession interested in public health? Are they doing their job properly when they ignore or downplay what is STILL going on? WAKE UP!!!!


  31. To Dialogue in reference to Article on Auras in the Sunday World, March 3rd, 1994 and those ‘rejected’ by Tony Quinn

    This article was written by a member of the Tony Quinn group. I refer to one particular paragraph and I copy:

    “I would like to mention here that Tony can also, if necessary, bring the aura down to black. This is because, there are in the world, those who would exploit this idea of God, for money, possessions, or simply power. To capatalize this way on the longing many people feel at this time for a teacher, is to sin to a far greater extent than the normal person could understand.”

    He goes on then to sing his praises about the great things he can do with people auras…

    “The reason I am telling you this is to get you along to the classes” and “You have nothing to lose”

    The paragraph describes the Tony Quinn I recognise and since his followers repeat everything he says it comes from the ‘horse’s mouth’.

    I am reminded of something I experienced with two ‘top brass’ members of the Tony Quinn group. Prior to these experiences, for the most part, relaxation had been a gentle and stress free state. It all changed when I said NO to the seminar. On both occasions all I could see was black. I felt I had lost the control I usually felt as to what was happening during these sessions. On the second occasion I was asked what had I seen and I said ‘just black’ and this was acceptable to the person doing the relaxation. Following these sessions, I felt very frightened and believed that I could not talk to anyone about it. The emphasis on the colour did not strike me at the time. I had not expected this from the second person as I merely went to discuss how I was feeling, which was not very good and wanted her to answer questions I had. I needed to understand why I was feeling awful and I questioned the behaviour of others in the Tony Quinn centre.

    Following these sessions I was not the same person that people knew me to be. I was very frightened and scared of energy ‘taking over me’ and prayed to be released from it. My language and behaviour changed and those who knew me were very uneasy when I became very angry. I said things I did not believe and became frightened if I said anything that related to Tony Quinn or his ‘top brass’. No one I spoke to understood, or did not seem to understand, the stress I was under and the amount of energy I put into controlling myself. The anger and the violence I felt capable of was truly frightening. I knew they had done this deliberately but how could I explain it? I was told that no-one would believe me, in my last session, and this thought stuck in my mind along with the feeling that I had no-one to talk to. I cried a lot and did just enough to survive.

    I wrote what I could remember. At first it was quite difficult as the memories were scrambled, making no sense at all. With great patience I stayed with it and, gradually, the memories and experiences came back and I placed them in time and sequence. These memories included incidences I had ignored or forgotten about. I realised their significance in the overall experience so they were important. I knew it would serve a purpose and, later, became a great source of information for my counsellor to work with. When I described how my behaviour had changed I was told that people are locked up for doing that (referring to a mental institution). It was something I had feared and the reason I had put so much effort into controlling myself.

    From my prospective it was real.


  32. To Relieved: Going to the press with your story was very brave and it is a measure of how much you disagreed with what was happening to people who were honest about their disappointment with the seminars. It was very brave of you to speak to the “man” himself but I suspect you had no idea of the consequences. The word travels like wildfire when you step out of line ie go against Tony Quinn. I hope you have many people around you now who love and care about you.

    It is worth facing up to what you did ie selling seminars etc., you have to remember, though, that you went into it with good intentions. You stepped back from it when you realised something was going badly wrong and this is commendable. Hopefully, more and more will do the same. They really do need to ‘wake up’ from the nightmare Tony Quinn has created and get themselves away from his control.

    Using the words of Martin Luther, ‘I have a dream that one day’ all men/women and young people see the error of Tony Quinn’s ways and walk away, knowing in their hearts and souls not to repeat them, Amen.


  33. To disappointed Educoist: When self aggrandisement, as is the case withTony Quinn, comes before caring about people, it is time to throw in the towel and stop doing seminars and everything else he does that exploits people. He needs to take his head out of the movies and listen to the real results of those who were damaged and misled by what he talks about and his mind programmes.

    Tony Quinn goes on about not being able to change people because they are too conditioned in their thought forms. I am more concerned about those who have taken on his conditioning and beliefs as it seems far more dangerous than anything they had thought previously.

    It is interesting to find out about what happens on the seminars. All the promises he makes only to find out that he trains people to sell his seminars and the drivel he goes on with is enough for me to know that I made the right decision not to go. I had already suffered the nastiness of people working for him and witnessed that all was not well in the Tony Quinn camp. I dread to think what would have happened.

    For a long time afterwards, and I am talking about earlier seminars and classes I attended, I had to work through what was installed in my mind by monitoring what I thought and how I expressed myself. I was very aware of the impact of other personalities, and two in particular, in the TQ group who had the most unwelcome impact on how I felt, emotionally and physically, and the damage they were prepared to inflict.

    Working through the programmes TQ and others installed, by myself, was difficult. I stayed away from them and prayed. They had succeeded in terrifying me although I question why they continued with it as I had already said no to the seminar. It took a long time for me to trust anyone. If I had an inkling they were involved in the Tony Quinn centre I avoided them. I had to learn to cope with everyday events and meeting people and remain honest with myself as to how I was coping.

    NLP is a very useful approach when used wisely. It was part of the Psychotherapy Course given by ‘tutors’ (whether they were properly trained to do so is questionable) working in the centre. Their standard is highly unethical as, yet again, they used it for their own purposes ie installing thought processes that had unsuccessful outcomes. To tell someone to believe something that has no basis in reality ie they came first when, in reality, they came last is very misleading. It reminds me of the young man who got so caught up with the hype coming from fellow seminar attenders he got involved in the music business and yes, you have guessed it, it came to nothing. He had no talent for music and could not sing. What a waste of time, money and energy. I hope all is well with him now.

    The question is, what needs doing to, finally, put an end to it?


  34. Thankyou Dialogue Ireland for the background information you have posted. I recall hearing TQ laughing about being denounced by the pulpit. Of course he didn’t express the reasons why this happened. I always felt uncomfortable with his constant references to the bible and Jesus Christ. I am not sure whether he truly understands Christ’s message in the world but anyone passing themselves off as some kind of messiah is quite ridiculous.

    He talks a great deal about his body building days and his titles that were won by him.

    I remember him saying that his first job was selling heated hair curlers to women and how successful he was compared to everyone else. Frankly it was a terrible story and I never quite understood why he used to tell it. I seemed to miss the point on that. He did talk about his time as a butcher and as a fitness instructor and how he was the first to bring yoga to Ireland.

    I would never do his brand of yoga because he had spoken of perfecting his own moves and that really was ridiculous to me. It is such an ancient form I couldn’t believe it when he was speaking about doing yoga at 10 years of age. To me it was just another incident of his bragging and I was always surprised why more people didn’t openly challenge this however of course I was to learn in time why they didn’t challenge him.

    I always thought some of his qualifications were of a dubious nature but I was so wanting to believe he was the geniune article. I know a lot of people who are highly qualified in some of the areas he professes expert knowledge and I know it took them years of study and practical experience to get to the point of where they are today. I get really annoyed at bogus oassociations that try to pass themselves off as experts in a field. I have no problem if anyone has truly studied at a college or university that is properly accreditated. At least it gives some protection to the trusting unsuspecting public. It really is a sad state of affairs that we have had to become distrustful of everything because of those individuals whom exploit lie and cheat to gain credibility and make copious amounts of money as well.


  35. To Relieved: I am really sorry for the public humiliation that you have suffered at the hands of these people. I am not at all surprised. Everytime I witnessed someone trying to ask questions or point the glaring discrepencies out they were vilified, rumors spread and their personal reputation destroyed in the organisation. I saw a similar thing among scientologists as well. Fair play to you for having the courage to ask those questions to his face. I applaud you for that courage. That would not have been easy yet you still chose to do the right thing when you had the opportunity. I bet that hit him on his blind side. It certainly shows that he is not the all knowing TQ that he so elequantly presents himself as. I certainly hope as time prevails you will become known as the hero you really are to stand up to this organisation and its lies and deceit. For you to be truly credible at discrediting them you would have had to have insider knowledge. The way they have tried to discredit you for telling the truth, is to spread the rumors and tell lies etc instead of proving themselves to be genuine and right in what they say. If they could stand by what they sell they wouldn’t be required to discredit others because the results would truly speak for themselves. I hope that they day is coming when you will become completely vindicated and you will be rewarded for your courage. I too well understand how nasty they can be I was horrified to hear the things that were said about me purely because I asked questions, disagreed with them, and I wouldn’t hero worship anybody in the organisation. I didn’t experience to the same degree that you have but I know exactly what they are capable of. Lets hope more and more people come forward with their stories and post them. The more people who do the this the more TQ will be discredited.

    I am really glad that other people are now reading these posts and posting their experiences as well. It has certainly helped me realise that I was ok and quite right in my assessment of what was happening not that I would wish upon anyone the negative experience that I unfortunately had.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. He did a masters degree at a I think was the East London University in Middlesex and his thesis is on pain free surgery. I have heard people say that Tony is the only person who could do what he did but if they went searching through medical research there are plenty of cases of this having been performed. I have heard others point this out only for them to be either completely ignored or shot down by the likes of Martin, Collette etc.

    It was in Barking in Essex – Further info here.
    Tony Quinn was born into a working-class family in Arbour Hill, on Dublin’s northside. He was a skinny, gangling young man and, by his own admission, sought to emulate Charles Atlas, the American bodybuilder who had famously gone from nerdish schoolboy to Mr Universe through sheer hard work. By his mid-teens, Tony was already working out heavily. He left school early and found work, first as a salesman for HB ice cream and then, when he was 17, as an apprentice butcher in a slaughterhouse in Phibsborough. All the while he retained his passion for fitness and the body beautiful, and eventually found work as an instructor at the Grafton Health Studio. With his physique developing nicely, Quinn also found part-time work as a bouncer with Club Go Go on Dame Street. Those who trained under him at the gym remember him as a magnetic character. “I had never met anyone like him,” says one former student. “He had women falling at his feet, and could wrap anyone around his little finger.”

    Tony began to compete at bodybuilding competitions. He was remarkably successful, winning 12 titles at national level. According to one man who competed in these competitions, Tony steadfastly refused any steroids which might have given him a greater winning edge. Bodybuilding was still a very embryonic sport in this country at that stage, but, some 30 years later, Tony’s pamphlets and brochures would show what appears to be present-day Tony’s head attached to a mass of striated, overly tanned muscle, boasting as if he had just won an Olympic title.

    At the advent of the Seventies, Tony was becoming interested in yoga. He began teaching Ireland’s first-ever classes in the now-popular discipline in 1971, at a modelling agency, and then at 23 St Stephen’s Green, before moving on to 20 Baggot Street. However, it was only in 1974, when the operation relocated once again, this time to Terenure, that the public began to take notice. A report appeared in the Sunday World with the headline “Yoga Cult Broke Up Her Home”. It told the story of a woman who had become immersed in Quinn’s version of the yogic philosophy and had left her husband. This was long before the practice had received any celebrity endorsement (yoga, that is, not leaving your husband) and the hackles of Catholic Ireland were raised. Miles away in Cork, Bishop Lucey even denounced Quinn from the pulpit.

    But if the cleric had known the full truth of Quinn’s domestic set-up, he might have been a good deal more outraged. Some newspapers claimed that Quinn’s acolytes lived together in a commune where the women all wore black. In fact, followers from the early days speak of a highly unconventional domestic set-up. Quinn has denied this, though he does recall a time when his lifestyle invited ricidule and suspicion.

    For most of the Seventies, Quinn lived with his followers in Howth or in another commune in Kilbarrack. They were a self-sufficient, insular community, united by their belief in Quinn and the power he had over them. “He was a very charismatic character,” says Joe Hoey, a friend of Tony’s and former commune-dweller. The people in the commune had plans to buy property in Meath, but there was very little money (“Sometimes there was barely food on the table,” confirms another former commune-dweller) and, to the disillusionment of some, it became clear that this was not going to happen.

    Those who stayed at the commune were generally paying members, but Quinn financed his purchase of the buildings from his yoga classes. Throughout the Seventies and early Eighties, Quinn continued to expand the numbers taking the classes. Mike Garde of Dialogue Ireland, an organisation which specialises in counselling ex-Tony Quinn fanatics, offers a succinct critique of Quinn’s yogic philosophy: “If traditional Indian yoga can in general be described as otherworldly, then Tony Quinn’s yoga is most definitely ‘this-worldly’. Objectives such as business success and having thicker hair would sound very strange in a traditional Indian yoga centre.” His website goes on to point out that Quinn’s teachings are much closer to contemporary new-age western culture than any of the eastern religions which form part of yoga.

    Quinn’s preoccupation with the body beautiful and worldly riches even alienated many of his early followers. Joe Hoey says, “It [his association with Quinn] was a great apprenticeship for me, but in the end we had a difference of philosophy. I had to get out.” One woman I spoke to, whose marriage broke down partially as a result of her husband’s heavy involvement in Quinn’s growing empire, was also relieved that she got out early. “Thirty years ago I was naive, and I thought it was wonderful,” she told me. “But I had a small child, and as things got more and more heavy I knew I had to get out. I told my husband it was me or Tony Quinn, and I think it’s pretty clear which choice he made.”

    Although relatively insignificant in the context of broken marriages, a sticking point for some people is that Quinn does not have an officially recognised qualification from the Irish Yoga Association, founded in 1978. Joanne Douglas, herself an experienced yoga instructor, remembers taking a course that was offered by Tony Quinn in the Seventies. “They were giving a class for pregnant women and recommending a position which tones the pelvic floor. In fact, that would be dangerous for someone carrying a child.” Nevertheless, is there not a grudging respect for Quinn, who, after all, brought yoga to Ireland, I ask. “People were practising yoga privately even before he came here. He’s a great self-promoter, but I’d hate people to think that that’s offered in Ireland,” she says.

    Quinn’s lack of official recognition is a subject that rears its ugly head time and time again. He promotes himself as an academic expert, but he left school early and most of his qualifications are of a highly dubious quality. In the Seventies he attended the British College of Naturopathy and Osteopathy in London, but inquiries reveal that the college has no record of Quinn as a graduate. According to his own literature, he claims to have earned “a doctorate in clinical hypnotherapy and counselling, a master of science degree in psychotherapy and numerous qualifications in mind technology, holistic medicine, nutrition and exercise”. Richard Morrissey, an employee of Quinn’s, told me that “he is the world’s leading expert in the area of the mind, recognised by all the top universities in London.”

    In fact, Quinn’s doctorate was awarded by the somewhat less-than-prestigious American Pacific University, now based in Hawaii, which specialises in distance learning. When I rang this college, none of the course directors was actually on site (there is no campus as such). By Irish academic standards, a doctorate would represent an original piece of research, which should be fit for publication in an academic journal, and which, crucially, has been defended in person by the scholar in a viva voce presentation. Dr Quinn’s thesis has never been published anywhere, nor was he required to defend it in person before a board of experts in the field.

    Rhoda Draper, spokeswoman for the Irish Institute of Counselling and Hypnotherapy, maintains that, by its very nature, hypnotherapy is unsuitable for distance learning. “Hypnosis is a very easy thing to learn,” she says. “The reason people need to attend courses and spend time is because of the ethical concerns involved. We have been involved with helping individuals who were previously devotees of Quinn’s.”

    All of these caveats to his doctorate would have been too cumbersome on a flyer (not that Quinn is averse to small print; early copies of his promotional literature contained the fine-print warning “Results shown may not be typical”) and by the late Eighties he had a veritable alphabet of letters after his name and was putting his newly-acquired skills to good use on television. In an effort to gain a truly national profile, he hypnotised a series of patients who, live on the Late Late Show, then underwent their procedures without the benefit of anaesthetic. The show was without doubt the first of many PR coups for Quinn but, according to Draper, his results were not surprising. “It has been well documented that certain people who are especially susceptible to the suggestive nature of hypnosis can be placed in a trance-like state where they will not feel pain,” she told me.

    What the audience also wasn’t told was that two of the ‘contestants’ were actually employed by Quinn. Colette Millea is the most notorious hard-seller of Quinn’s services and, with Tom McKenna, forms the first power couple of the Quinn empire. She worked with an accountancy firm in Dublin, advising Quinn on legal tax avoidance before coming to work for him. Demonstrating ‘the power of the mind’, she had her ears pinned back with only Quinn’s heavy Dublin accent to soothe her.

    Using paid guinea pigs has long been a standard Quinn trick. Personal testimony was crucial in launching his own branded range of supplements in the late Eighties and early Nineties. The pamphlets would boast that “none of those sharing their experiences were paid” but, in fact, many were not just paid, but long-time employees on the payroll. On one of the more recent brochures displayed prominently outside the Tony Quinn outlet in the Stephen’s Green Centre, we are introduced to Martin who, through the use of Tony Quinn products and supplements, went from flabby and out of shape to tanned and muscular. What we are not told is that Martin is actually Martin Forde, longtime senior associate of Tony Quinn. As one former follower of Quinn remarked, “It would be like the senior stylist at Peter Mark saying, ‘I only ever get my hair done at Peter Mark.’”

    “Truly Amazing Results” such as these were featured alongside a host of Quinn services in his promotional newsletter, the now-infamous Blueprint for Successful Living. This was a magazine delivered to homes throughout Ireland from the mid- Eighties. It promised that, unlike all other newspapers, it contained only good news. And some of the news was so ‘good’, one had to continue to remind oneself that it was verified by numerous (unnamed, always unnamed) university studies, and therefore entirely believable. We learned of the fascinating Educo Postal Report System which “allows you to make a request for yourself for success, healing or self-improvement. Working with the photograph of the person on a daily basis we use the Educo system. This can take place without us and the person meeting and can be conducted by post.” Readers were invited to enclose £25 (£40 for a family) and Tony and his team would use their “positive mind power” to bring health, wealth and new-age happiness to your nearest and dearest. The new service was a remarkable success and one former associate of Quinn’s spoke to me of “envelopes full of cash piling up on the mat each morning”.

    But though distance healing and vitamin pills were nice moneyspinners for Quinn, they would seem almost quaintly low-key when compared to the new line of business which would eventually win “the world’s leading expert on the mind” infamy and adoration in equal measure. Because by the early Nineties, Dr Quinn’s star was rising and he had found a much more lucrative and controversial forum for his brand of messianic proselytising: The Educo Seminar.


  37. To Angie: My answer to your question is that he doesn’t care. The justification is that you are trapped in thought and heavily programmed. He recommends the Matrix movie as an example of the world we live in today. Another movie he recommended was Contact I think the scene towards the end when Jodie Foster is in the space ship that didn’t take off but to her it appears she has been away for hours, she meets the human form of her dead father. There is a comment that she wouldn’t be able to cope with his real form in the movie so he appears to her in a way she can comprehend. TQ would say that this is what being in life was all about the beauty of that scene. There were other movies such as The Lost Horizon, The Others to name a few that he would use as examples of what he calls reality.

    TQ thinks that sometimes people are so deeply programmed that it isn’t possible to free them from being in thought.

    He did a masters degree at a I think was the East London University in Middlesex and his theisis is on pain free surgery. I have heard people say that Tony is the only person who could do what he did but if they went searching through medical research there are plenty of cases of this having been performed. I have heard others point this out only for them to be either completely ignored or shot down by the likes of Martin, Collette etc.

    He also talks about his research he did on weight loss from the seminars using his approaches.

    On the first seminar there is a lot of so called sales training. I guess it was a form of training to get everyone to come back and sell seminars. An awful lot of what he gets people to do is NLP but I only ever heard him speak about Richard Badler in not a very pleasant way at the time. In recent years I haven’t heard him say anything about Richard Bandler.

    I heard he was doing a Phd but I never heard any more about it. It went very quiet on that subject I guess he wasn’t successful because if he was I guarentee he would have been bragging from the roof-tops of Dublin. I wondered at the time just how much of the work he was doing himself and how much was being done by his then girlfriend Tara, Jim and some of the others as Tony freely says at the meetings he doesn’t use computers mobile phones etc.

    I certainly hope that those who are involved in this case are fully aware of hypnotic techniques and are prepared against them. I am not sure which court case he is due to answer to is it the class action taken out regarding was it sexual assualt?

    Thankyou for your encouragement and engaging in a dialogue around TQ. Although I have read many posts it wasn’t until I read yours that I decided to put my experiences onto paper or computer in this case. It has really helped me clear out a lot of this that has been hanging around me. I am hoping that now that I have finally acknowledged just how terrible it really I feel a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders.


  38. Hi,
    It is with great interest that I read the entries of the last week or so. I had not checked out the site in quite a while and was pleasently surprised to see articulate and sincere accounts of people’s experiences with the guru. I know them to be true because I have experience of most of what you talk about. You ask if Mr Quinn knows about what happens with seminars when people are disregarded after they pay their money. Well I made the mistake of trying to talk to him about all of that. I tried to talk about the fact that gyms were shutting down because people could not afford the heavy royalties, heavy training expenses and tight margins on supplements. I talked to him about the people who phoned me to say how angry they were with me for convincing them to go on a seminar because it left them broke and in debt. I tried to ask why he got rid of all the great people that were involved with him in the 70s and 80s – why he never gave them anything and yet he put a financial value on everything he did for them. He charged them rent and and also had them cook and clean on his seminars for nothing. I couldn’t get any answers – just whimpering excuses and more persuasive ethereal shit talk. The conversation lasted many many hours and it is probably one of the sorriest things I ever did. For months after that I was bullied, discredited, lied about, lied to, tricked and deceived. Educoists were told all sorts of lies about me, publicly even. The only way I had of answering back was to tell my story to the press – which I did. It was very difficult to wait around on that Sunday morning while my elderly mum and my family and friends read the embarrassing truth of my years with Quinn.

    It was a truth that I had to face myself for quite a while before I could put it into words. I guess I should have realized that I would pay for that too and I have for years now. The lies, manipulations, false accusations and insults have come, both to me personally and to my family. Some of these have very very serious consequences for us and the fight goes on every day. Some people have asked to meet me, or have phoned me. They want to share their stories with me but are afraid to speak openly. I can tell you that I don’t blame them one bit – there is a high price to pay. All the same I sincerely hope that others will follow your lead and talk openly on this site about what they have gone through, what they have learned and how they have moved on. I have accepted my portion of the responsibility for getting myself involved and for encouraging others to do so, but a lot of people involved seem incapable of facing up to theirs, including the “man” himself. I sincerely hope that the day will come soon when people will understand the dangers of getting involved with people whose only agenda is a self serving one. Thank you for the Dialogue.


  39. To Disappointed Edcoist: Delighted you are doing so well and I hope many people read your posts.

    The question I ask myself now is does Tony Quinn know the half of what you and other people have gone through after the seminars? how he disregards it I will never understand. He deserves to be in court to answer for his, so called, amazing results. Where is this groundbreaking research? If it is so great the public need to hear about it. To flippantly explain away those who don’t benefit from the seminars as ‘negative’ is idiotic.

    Of course, he is probably counting his success stories by how they handle his bullying ie if they stay around and take it; if they can handle him taking over their lives; when he convinces them that their unresponsiveness to assault and criminal behaviour (saying it is for their own good) is proof they are still ‘in the energy’; when they respond exactly how he wants them to for his ‘research’ ; when they convince others how great he is, well then – hallelujah, he has done the perfect job and brought them to nirvana, trapped in non-thought, switching them on or off as he pleases with hypnosis; mindless ‘isn’t life wonderful’ that totally disregards the reality of what they are caught up in. After all that they are still not perfect enough for Tony Quinn and fight each other for his acceptance and the privilege of being in a hypnotic trance. I find it more difficult to come to terms with the ‘top brass’ particularly those who have been around for years. An apology is in order when they are taken to task about their behaviour. Heartless bullying seems to be the order of the day with some of them.

    Yes, I understand your concern and I too would like to see justice prevail. Would he not be in contempt of court if he didn’t turn up? I would hope the people who are involved in the case have a very good idea of what he is capable of. It’s important they know what they are dealing with. If he did try anything they would smell a rat. He is not dealing with the unsuspecting public now.

    Stay true to yourself!


  40. To Angie: Yes I was surprised as well when I heard about this women who cancelled her cheque and didn’t pay. It was back in around 2003 or 2004. I am not sure if this happens today it possibly was stopped soon after. She did cancel the cheque as soon as she returned from the seminar before they had a chance to cash it.

    I am the same as you I haven’t been able to talk to people about my ordeal and this is the first time by placing it into printed word. I found it so much easier. I have told of certain events but not in a negative way when I speak about the power of energy and only because people I know realise that I am quite a grounded person and would not make this kind of thing up, that these things actually happened. I think if anything I have stopped people from going because they don’t want to be involved in this kind of thing.

    There is so much good information that is given on the seminar but it is all available in books on the web through websites that sell new age book tapes etc. It is not necessary to pay such large amounts of money for other peoples work re-hashed but what is dangerous is the use of hypnosis and playing with energy with people who are ill-equipped to deal with it both receiving it or taking it. Actually I tend to think that maybe I was lucky on one level that something really evil didn’t happen in the seminar at the time it all went on. I have a belief that I am fairly well protected because when I think what could have happened. I could have ended up committed after loosing my mind and never being able to recover. That does not excuse what happened to me but I certainly feel that I am lucky that I am able to live a normal life without too much fall out from all of this. I am successful in my chosen career have a beautiful house, great friends and am blessed to have good health and a sound mind. I certainly hope that my story will be of assistance to anyone who is going through the fallout from a TQ seminar.

    I am also very grateful to Dialouge Ireland having the only forum where you can actually express what happened to you from the Educo experience.

    I will be interested to see if he actually turns up for court and whether he will try and use hypnosis in the court. I certainly hope that this has been considered with him. He really is an excellent hypnotist and I worry that justice will not be served because of this skill he has.


  41. Thank you Dialogue for your post re Conference 2001. As Tony Quinn is due in court this month it may generate a lot of interest and, hopefully, many people will use Dialogue and avail of the services you offer. I hope so.


  42. To Disappointed Educoist: I am very surprised that people could get their money back after the first seminar. I was not told this when they were trying to get me on it. It sounds like a ploy to part them from their money. How long do they get, after the two weeks, to evaluate the seminar as to how well it has worked for them? That girl should be applauded. It’s the first time I’ve heard of anyone getting money back for anything. The people using the gym were not insured until sometime in the 90’s although I can’t be sure about this . Some of the exercises they taught were dangerous and not advised by properly trained people as they cause back problems. I wonder if anyone has ever put in an insurance claim? They certainly would not encourage it as they would certainly attempt to sort it out themselves with ki-massage. Unfortunately, their belief in themselves as healers far outweighs the results.

    This peaceful feeling they spoke about on the seminar – it seems like a huge amount of money for that. Lazing around for two weeks with a good and trusted friend would get the same result. The more I hear about it the more I am convinced; Tony Quinn is the biggest CON ARTIST I’ve ever heard mentioned.

    Your interest in spirituality is strong and genuine, but, from your description of what you endured, you are too sensitive for the likes of TQ and I would question the authenticity of his abilities. If he is so enlightened he would have known what was taking place and stopped immediately as such an experience is too overwhelming and would need immediate care and discussion afterwards. Instead, he showed his ignorance by targeting you with his cronies to take any confidence you had away from you. How evil is he to even attempt to get you to pay more money for another seminar. I know you have come a long way since then but, if you think it would be beneficial, you could talk through this experience with a counsellor recommended by Dialogue. I was in Dialogue website a few months ago and came across the name of a counsellor and I have never looked back since. It is always beneficial to get a knowledgeable perspective on how they work and the above incident is too much for anyone to have endured. Again, I say your strength of mind is admirable to overcome such a frightening experience.

    It crossed my mind today that the material they put out is only the tip of the iceberg. Tony Quinn does not divulge how he manipulates people. Unfortunately it is only when the person realises themselves what took place that it becomes apparent and then finds it difficult to understand or talk about. I know it took a long time for me to articulate what happened and I found it much easier to use the computer as the printed words are there for those concerned to read. Thank you for sharing your story. It makes it so much easier to understand when it is in print. Stay strong and be true to yourself!


  43. Disappointed Educoist you might find the exact story you are talking about. did it happen in Egypt?
    This audio material might assist a lot of you!
    Dialogue Ireland Conference 2001

    This year’s conference took place at Holy Cross College in Dublin on Saturday 13 October 2001.

    Dr* Sean Collins
    Director Irish Institute of Counselling and Hypnotherapy

    Audio of Dr. Collins from the conference is available here.

    * [Archive edited 13/04/2011 – We understand that the title of Doctor used by Sean Collins in this instance refers to a Doctorate of Clinical Hypnotherapy awarded by the American Institute of Hypnotherapy. The American Institute of Hypnotherapy was, at the time of the award being granted, an approved school in the state of California. An approved school in the state is recognised as being an operational business that provides teaching materials and assesses student work in exchange for fees. The state does not assess the content of the teaching materials or scrutinise student work. An accredited educational institute does have its teaching materials and student work assessed for standards by a government body.

    In an accredited institute such as most universities, the international standard for obtaining the award of a doctorate entitling a graduate to use the title Doctor, requires a primary degree (B.A., B.Sc. etc) in the subject, followed by on average 3 years’ full-time or equivalent part-time original research under the supervision of a professor of the subject, to be tested by the production of a written thesis and a viva voce examination by a panel of experts in the subject. It is customary for a graduate to have published a number of research papers in peer-reviewed journals which are considered along with the thesis, or incorporated into it.

    We understand that the Doctorate of Clinical Hypnotherapy as awarded by the AIH involved the study of distance learning materials and the production of a series of essays, and that the time required to complete it could be less than one year.

    In a number of states in the USA, it is illegal to use the title “Doctor” unless it has been awarded by an accredited institute. This restriction does not apply in the Republic of Ireland or in the UK.]

    Author YOGA A PATH TO GOD?

    Audio of Fr. Hughes from the conference is available here.
    Richard Oakley

    Gerry Kerr – Audio of Gerry Kerr from the conference is available here.
    A couple: one who observed from Ireland, the other went on the seminar.

    We had repeatedly invited Tony Quinn and his representatives to participate in dialogue with us at the conference. Regrettably we had no response from them.

    9.30 – 10.00 Registration
    10.00 – 10.55 Dr. Sean Collins: ‘THE QUIN(N)TESSENTIAL APPROACH’
    10.55 – 11.15 Tea/Coffee
    11.15 – 12.10 Fr Louis Hughes The Quinn Philosophy – Where does it come from?
    12.10 – 12.40 Richard Oakley: An investigation by the Sunday Tribune
    12.40 – 13.00 Open Discussion on first three speakers
    14.00 – 14.45 PANEL DISCUSSION
    14.45 – 15.45 Two Sessions

    Video 20/20 documentary TV 3
    CH 4 Boxing and Hypnosis
    Pastoral support for people affected by involvement with Tony Quinn
    A. Support groups
    B. Legal issues
    C. Spiritual Aspect
    D. Counselling

    15.45 – 16.15 Tea/ coffee
    16.15 – 17.00 Open Forum with all contributors
    17.00 Conference ends

    Invitations to the Tony Quinn organisation:

    17 January 2001
    6 June 2001

    Dr Sean Collins
    Director Irish Institute of Counselling and Hypnotherapy
    Dr. Collins gave a very balanced view of the danger of making “success”, the total focus of one’s life. Pain, failure are written out of the script and as a result the person is diminished. Basically the emphasis was on the danger of Gurus having feet of clay.
    Author YOGA A PATH TO GOD?
    This contributor illustrated how Quinn’s notions of “Self, Life, Energy” and “unconscious attention” are rather crude adaptations of ancient Hindu ideas. In particular he showed how Quinn misinterpreted the Gospels in attempting to identify Christian prayer with New Age positive thinking.
    Richard Oakley
    This speaker presented the clear evidence of pyramid sales, with little compassion for the poor and an organisation that had all the hallmarks of a cult
    Gerry Kerr
    A very convincing look at a person from a former devotee who now realises that he got his wires crossed as far as who is God! He shows how the early days developed and how it took him a decade to break the power of Tony Quinn from his life.

    A couple: one who observed from Ireland, the other went on the seminar
    Here we get an insiders perspective of how the seminar works. First you go to a Tony Quinn shop to get some product or service. You join a quite reasonably priced six week course. During this you are given what amounts to an overwhelming sales talk about meeting Tony Quinn in person. The brochure is given to you. No addresses, no amounts written down, just the heavy duty atmosphere to go and pay £15,000 for a two week trip.

    The Committee of Dialogue Ireland would like to stress the we repeatedly invited Tony Quinn and his representatives to participate in dialogue with us at this conference. Regrettably, despite repeated letters to them, we had no response.

    A set of four tapes is available which gives you an accurate flavour of the conference on the 13 October 2001. They cost £20 or € 25.80 per set including postage. Please send your remittance to:
    Dialogue Ireland,
    7/8 Lr. Abbey St
    Dublin 1
    The following is an example of the comments we received about the day:

    I thought the conference was very successful, I certainly gained a lot from. It was very illuminating to chat to XXXXXX at the meal in the evening. We had a lot in common ……..sifting through a lot of material to unearth the facts. Chatting to XXXX and XXXXX shed a lot of light on Tony’s personal life and his treatment of women, as Father Collins pointed out examining the guru as a person might expose his feet of clay.

    Thanks again for organising the conference it was very beneficial to me.

    During the week of the conference a number of the speakers and Dialogue Ireland received a very damaging article about Tony Quinn. Because it was not signed we are not able to upload it to our site. However, if the writer would be willing to contact Dialogue Ireland we would be delighted to discuss its content with him/her. Interestingly in the early ’70s there was a strong attack on Tony Quinn. His organisation produced a leaflet with the same name as our conference, “Who is TONY QUINN?”
    17 January 2001
    Mr. Tony Quinn
    66, Eccles St.
    Dublin 7

    Dear Mr. Quinn,

    I am the field worker of Dialogue Ireland and yesterday we had our committee meeting at which we agreed to hold our next annual conference at Clonliffe College on October 20. We have decided that the subject will be an examination of your Yoga School and the Educo Philosophy you espouse.

    We would like to invite you to speak about it and other aspects of your philosophy you may wish to share about. We would also like to understand your use of the Bible, which I understand, plays an important part in your life!

    We would also like you to bring say, three people to give testimony to the positive benefits they have received from involvement with your courses.

    We hope to have Fr Louis Hughes to respond to your presentation, you may be aware of his book, “Yoga a path to God?”.

    Naturally, I am aware you are very busy with your various courses and that you have one in a week or so in the Bahamas, so if you are unable to speak yourself could you provide a speaker like Martin Forde who would be able to faithfully represent your point of view.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Mike Garde
    To date (25/2/01), we have not received an acknowledgement to our letter inviting TONY QUINN to speak at our conference.

    Numerous phone calls and emails have remained unanswered. If we receive no answer we intend to invite former members and another academic to reflect on his teachings and methodology.
    Letter to Martin Forde

    June 6, 2001

    Dear Martin,

    Further to my letter of January 17, inviting Tony or a representative to speak at our annual conference. We have decided to write again, as we received no reply to this request. We are now holding the Conference on October 13, instead of October 20.

    We genuinely want to dialogue with Tony or a representative of his organisation and with the different views that have been expressed over the last few months allow for a free exchange of views.

    For the present we have structured our conference without his participation, but if we get a reply by the middle of July we would shape the conference to make a dialogue possible!

    After that we have to start sending out the Conference brochure and can’t leave things much longer than that.

    I myself will be away in the US from next week, June 14 till July 17, so if you reply and you do not hear from me you will understand!

    You can of course, send a copy to our executive committee chairperson Fr. Louis Hughes, Dominican Priory, Dominic St; Drogheda, Co Louth.

    I remain,

    Yours sincerely,

    Mike Garde
    Field worker
    Dialogue Ireland.


  44. To extq: The Sunday seminars with all the scantily clad women are truly an insult towards women who do not look like this. The whole obsession with looking 20 years younger than you are was I always thought completely ridiculous. It was amazingly insulting to any women sitting in the audience watching the latest girlfriend with breasts that were huge on full view to titilate the men. I always found it offensive and very strange that anyone on a spiritual path would be doing this. Although TQ was scathing about those on the spiritual path as he didn’t think anyone else knew anything about this.

    I am not surprised to hear your story about the young lady who was inappropriately harrassed by TQ and I agree with Angie she may not have the memory and this is why she feels so uncomfortable about the experience.

    One of the Sunday meetings I attended was about changing your memories so that if you came last you came first and that you only remember the good things that have happenend to you and re-programme them into your mind. There was a slant towards the spiritual and I couldn’t get over how he would stand in front of about 600-700 people and say the direct opposite to what he had been saying at previous meetings. I used to think I was the only person who saw this but now I know differently.

    The divide and conquer was amazing. Each year there is a christmas and a new year party. If you went to Tony’s house on xmas day you were automatically invited to the new years party. I remember hearing a comment that they didn’t want any old riff raff coming so it is kept quiet so loads of people don’t turn up at xmas to his house in Malahide.
    There would be the guest list and oh my goodness there would be many people who would be offended if they weren’t invited as they had been around for many years.

    I agree with you this is a great time for mankind and hopefully in the near future the likes of TQ will be exposed for who they truly are.


  45. To Angie: I am looking at your post regarding the financial impact they have. They have a very smart way of reeling you in. At the first seminar the cheque is not cashed until you return from the seminar so if you are unhappy you cancel your cheque but you don’t get the free for life seminars that they sell you. Very few people come back and cancel the cheque however I did hear about one girl who did just that. Of course they were outraged that someone would rip Tony off. I hope there have been more but I doubt it. Of course this is not the case for the £45,000 seminar that is taken by bank draft and cashed before you attend.

    I agree that something needs to be done about these people and anyone else who is playing with peoples minds. The material as such that he speaks of is freely available and I don’t have a problem with that, it is the mind games and use of hypnosis that is worrying as well as the practise of draining your energy. I have no doubt that TQ has the ability to draw energy I have had him place his hands on me and “shoot” energy into me. While everyone in the group I was with spoke of a lovely peaceful feeling I felt he was trying to show me how powerful he was and I didn’t see a white light but a burning fire. This might sound incredibly crazy but I assure you this did happen. I felt awful afterwards but of course I put on a face to say that it was wonderful although I didn’t rave on about like the others did. I was teary and felt very sick and naseaus and really didn’t know what to do. I hibernated quite a bit after this and didn’t mix too much with the other people on the seminar. There were some really nice people there but I just couldn’t connect with them at all. I saw them at meetings after the seminar but mostly they just blank you. The lack of compassion towards each other truly shocking but then if take on board literally everything that is told to you then this is what will happen. If you are lucky enough “to always be in the now” and have the wonderful life that TQ tells you will have then I guess you are not going to care about those who are ” trapped in thought” so to speak.

    There was a women that I recall was sent to hospital or something during a seminar. I remember the official line was that she had mental health problems or such like and she hadn’t been honest on the disclaimer you sign before you go onto one of the seminars absolving them of all responsibility for what happens to you. It was also implied that she had a alcohol problem. Again the destroy your reputation to create doubt in the minds of those you are trying to convince nothing untoward went on.

    The other thing is you are not encouraged to have any contact with the outside world while you are on a seminar. This is supposed to get you to immerse yourself in the material and they like you to share a hotel room with someone else so you don’t even get any privacy while you are away.

    I have such a heavy heart writing all this down. I certainly hope that my posts help someone who feels they are going mad because what happened. Believe me you are not just keep away from it and find your path yourself.

    Liked by 1 person

  46. To extq: I am thinking about that young girl you referred to in a previous post. It was criminal what TQ did when you look at the result of his actions and from the information she gave you there was clearly something sexual in his approach. She believes nothing happened. I am not comfortable right now because the thought going through my head is very disturbing. Let me put it this way; if TQ practices hypnosis she may not remember everything that happened. If he uses women in this way there is nothing stopping him from suggesting hypnotically that it never happened. Does he know that his RESULT ruined her life?

    I was told by a friend I had about 30 years ago that she knew a girl who was in the TQ centre. She became very attached to the group. Tony Quinn asked her to get on her knees and bow down at his feet and said she would have to leave if she didn’t. She refused and had to leave. She had worked very hard for the centre. I was fairly new to the TQ centre at the time. I had not met TQ and I was already convinced, by the person giving relaxation sessions, that people said thing like that about TQ but they were not true.

    Another girl attending told me that one of his workers in the TQ centre, after the relaxation session, approached her and touched her in a sexual manner. She was very upset by it. I was too. At that time it seemed like an isolated incident and was ignored by another group member I spoke to who would have know better. She is still in the group as far as I know. Previous newspaper articles were unknown to me. I was not aware of any articles printed in the 90’s. I met this girl about a year later and she accused me of saying something I had not. It is clear to me now that one of his workers had told her something that upset her to purposely separate us. It did not occur to me they would go to these lengths to protect themselves. I regret not keeping in touch with her.

    You mentioned the anger you felt towards yourself for being taken in by them but how much more angry you would be if you stayed. This is something that I’ve tried to figure out because I experienced that anger and could only guess as to why it was happening. I knew who triggered it and felt the full force of it. I was being used by this person who was very angry about something that happened to her and, somehow, I nearly ended up believing that it was my fault. How confusing is that? Or is it something they do deliberately and why? Was she suffering from paranoia? Or did a ‘friend’ of hers suggest something that I had supposedly done? This is what I suspected at the time. Please enlighten me if you can. I am in a better place but I do like to understand why they use such dangerous techniques.


  47. To Whom It May Concern:
    I had a discussion with a qualified hypnotist. When I explained what had happened to me, during and after I was with certain TQ people, he had no doubt that I was describing the effects of hypnosis.

    There are many people out there who are or were associated with Tony Quinn and who are now faced with a huge dilemma; Are you going to continue useing his methods with members of the public/clients, knowing that you do a huge disservice to them, that, more than likely, you are jeopardising their mental health? Have you the intelligence to stop it or is your clients state of mind, particularly when they feel estatic, so caught up in your own sense of satisfaction that you cannot see the imbalance you are causing? No-one has the right to use hypnosis on unsuspecting clients. NO ONE.

    There are very capable and ethical hypnotists practicing and I have no doubt they are responsible while treating the client.

    We need to be aware, though, there are some who are self serving or who service Tony Quinn. It is totally irresponsible when it is used for magical results. I say this because I was subjected to hypnosis in the past and, not only did I not agree to it in the first place, It took some time for me to realise that it was hypnosis. Usually it is relaxation that is suggested. I also had the experience of hypnosis when I regained consciousness sporadically and, because of this, I knew what was happening and how I was being influenced, manipulated to do something, which I then followed through on. What they say does take over the whole mind. Those who have worked for them know what I mean. Anyone who has spent time with them in whatever capacity knows what I am describing if they have had the misfortune of being manipulated by them. Needless to say I am not available to these people anymore, I am talking about Tony Quinn and associates, and if it ever happens again I will have them in court.


  48. To extq; I have not been near them for years but I experienced enough to recognise the truth of your post. Memories are surfacing and I am taking this opportunity to print them.

    Although some of them seemed very friendly I could not make friends with any of them as their allegiance to Quinn was too strong and I found that very unsettling. They really do mess around with peoples minds particularly the ‘top brass’ in the centre. I am familiar with the effects of standing up to them. I know that at least two of them used hypnosis on me before I finally had the sense to walk away.This had the effect of keeping me quiet for a long time. I went through some kind of mental breakdown. I was unable to verbalise, in any coherent fashion, what had happened to me. I am convinced, at this stage, that it was deliberate on their part that I internalised my anger, I blamed myself that somehow it was my fault; that I failed at something. It had the effect of exonerating them from their actions. Throughout this period there were times, too many of them, when a feeling would creep over me and I would have a nice feeling towards one of them as if it would be nice to see her again, go back to the centre. I resisted it time and time again. I had a mental picture of her holding a list of names and putting energy into it. I also got phone calls that had a terrible effect ie re-enforcing the anger and emotional pain which caused havoc in my life and relationships. I also felt that I was being blamed for something that had happened (or did it happen?) Do you see what I am getting at? Total confusion caused by mind games and hypnosis and still I was being asked did I get the money for the seminar yet.Later I realised how stupid they are as in, of course, I would work it out and see their game. And why did all of this happen? To fill TQ’s ‘treasure chest’? To satisfy his sexual urges? To practice having power over others? Or is it something more sinister than that? He needs locking up. He is a danger to society. I knew that the battle was on, to survive it and somehow to bring it to public awareness which I did in my own way although it obviously was not enough at the time. I risked being thought ‘mad’ if I spoke out about it. Yes, there was a fear of being sabotaged ie ‘closed down’ or ‘blocked’ or reverting back to how I was at the beginning ie not being able to verbalise it in a coherent fashion. It was a real fear but it has worn off. I am well able to express myself. The more people who know how it works the more there are who will break through this fear, break through any hold they may still have. People need to believe that THEY have the power to break away from TQ and anyone who is influenced with his sickness.

    TQ believes in prayer to get what he wants. So do I. My prayer is that his little ’empire’ crumbles to nothing; that those who are under his control, whether largely or in a small way, are freed from his seduction and return to health, mentally, physically and spiritually; that those who have been seduced into parting with large sums of money get it back. How is that for a request? The best I’ve ever put in print.

    You have probably noticed I am reluctant to elaborate on personal details of what happened to me as, I suspect, are many of us who have witnessed and experienced their dangerous games because of their fear of the awful backlash you describe. I had no other choice but to reconnect with a strong spiritual energy that sustains me; the ‘real me’ that came into this world. My spirit is alive and well!


  49. Having read this long detailed description of what these people have been through it is a ‘typical’ educo story that I have heard and experienced over the year. The abuse suffered by educoists when the question at follow meetings is ridiculed by the people attending the meetings and people are quite simply publicly bullied for not being ‘in the moment’ or having the ’right energy’ or whatever it is that they are guilty of in these people’s eye.
    Of course we all know when you are out of the cult and the energy of all of this you can see the wood from the trees. It takes time, it takes help and compassion from others. This forum allows people to understand that you can get the support you need it is available and it is not scary.
    The way in which seminars are held and the abuses suffered will leave a mark on you. That is absolutely true. The positive upsides about health and fitness are just a ruse to try and get credibility. The all seem to be links to keep you connected back hypnotically to the seminar ‘experience’ it is like a trigger acting in your mind. The same goes for the relaxation tape or whatever.
    The sexual innuendo I clear from you enter the seminar, it is all about putting it ‘out there’ when you attend. Attendees are encouraged to express that part of them as though it is part of spiritual awareness. Looking at this in the cold light of day, when attending the Sunday meetings there are so many scantily clad women who have had surgery to enlarge boobs sitting in the front row it is like being in a brothel rather than a ‘so called educational’ environment for the day. These poor unfortunate people in addition to spending their money on seminars have went on to feel the inadequacies of themselves to go to the point of having surgery so that they ‘look good for Tony’.
    The truth of the matter is that Quinn uses the seminars as is ground to win favour including sexual activities. He of course does it under the guise of ‘spiritual release or healing’ or whatever the current seminar tend is. I witnessed on my beginners seminar a beautiful young woman being drawn into this trap by Quinn. It was carefully orchestrated though-out the 12 days and then she had a one –to- on experience. Who knows what happened at the time.
    About 3 years after the seminar I met her again just met her randomly in a shopping centre, I had not seen her for a long time. We talked, I asked her to have a coffee and we sat and chatted. She was a complete mess. The poor girl had lost everything financially got involved in the educogyms and it all went south. She told me that when she was on that first seminar she was really into keep fit like aerobics and that and Quinn did not advocate that type of training. It was all about weight training. So when she met on the one to one it was clearly a sexual innuendo from the outset with him, she got away before any sleaze happened, she told me that it haunted her to that day.
    In my experience it was not sexual but the manipulation of mind that was so frightening. When I asked questions and made a complaint about it, the inner circle of Quinn just throw a blanket around him when my and other stories arise. There is a radar of panic and paranoid that jumps in on this team of inner circle, and they will literally do anything to stop it as we all have witnessed. This is cruel and vindictive and amounts to abuses of the highest level.
    When I saw this I saw what it was all about. It has nothing to do with doing anything good, it is about extracting what they can money wise from you or sending you off to extract from wherever so that you can pay over for more of the same. Like your writers I got out, it took a while, it took support and a loving family and friends that cared enough to help me. I resisted for some time as I come to terms with what I had done and how ‘foolish’ I was. It does manifest itself in anger, anger with yourself for allowing it to happen and be drawn in. The irony of it is that it is more anger if you stay in and don’t get out. Now that is the real danger.
    So in essence well done to you both who have voiced you concerns here. Me too, this forum has helped. Something should be done and I believe there are those who have stood up to Quinn and have suffered the wrath of it all. Most of us want to but are in truth afraid of the onslaught that it brings on top of us and the techniques that this dangerous and sad group of people use.
    We are all at a defining time in the history of mankind.
    Stay strong and stay out of the cult, that is the starting point.

    Liked by 1 person

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