The Modern Mystery School: Yes it is a CULT they initiate you.

I have had first hand experience. They take vulnerable people and pretend their lives will get better.

You do rituals to put you into the light but this also brings darkness to you like a moth to the flame. If you are not aware of spiritual practices you will become depressed and you life full of more problems than you had before. They pressurise you in taking more course and if you don’t have the money it will come. They issue cheap manuals use cheap or free accommodation. If you add up in a simple course for a day they can make 50k which is ludicrous. I have always believed that Spiritual work should be free or donations only as it segregates people who cannot afford it. I wrote to Gundi personally telling him I had no money and could i come on the course for free. Absolutely no reply. I also asked Gundi if he is saving the world with his rituals etc.


Why didn’t he stop the tsunami in his home town Japan. Simple because they do not have any power they use the same stuff as everyone else occult worshippers. There is only one source out there you either use it for good or abuse it. Their magic etc is nothing new you can read it in all books and obtain knowledge for free. All the teachers who enlist have no life they live for promoting the school. They have no money as they spend it on the school and quite honestly I do not see them happy they are in awe of Gundi like he is God. They do not promote love and their fees are ridiculous for what you get? What do you get? They prey on people. Martina says you must exercise and eat organic foods why then is she so fat? Living wealthy? It is really a mugs game just remember the best things in life are free and if its all inside of you why do need this secret cult to open it for you? If it don’t feel right then it isn’t right. My heart told me something was wrong and that’s what you need to listen to yourself it is a waste of money. And Gundi lives a lavish life with his young pretty Japanese wife whilst his ex-wife runs another cult the 7 Rays School all the same shit as her ex-husband again another charlatan at work. These people have lavish lifestyles don’t think they live in poverty. Please don’t be a mug take it from someone who went there they are robbing you and you may even go insane with some of the rituals they pass through you and they send spirits to watch you!!! You will go mad trust me if you dont know what its about. Its a bit like black magic they know what your thinking and when your down they prey on you – like oh you need a healing, a dna awakening!!! They are messing with your spirit, trust me if you tell anyone normal they will think you are mad and that’s because you are going mad. I know I’ve been there but luckily my spirit kept telling me what there doing is wrong. Trust yourself please. Need any advice contact me? (Address with DI)

152 Responses

  1. Is here a former MMS meber?
    I would like to know what exactly they are doing with their Life activation healing or Spark of life remote healing practice?


  2. A most literate commentary and thanks for bringing the Hebrew to our attention.


  3. Reading through the testimonies on this site, it’s clear enough that MMS is shamelessly dishonest. Allow me to share one example more that many people don’t understand, but it reveals how shameless MMS is.

    You ask why does MMS spell the name of King Solomon with an A in its marketing (“Salomon”)? Many have asked this because it makes no sense? It doesn’t make sense because it’s wrong!! I witnessed Dr. Theresa Bullard who teaches MMS Kabbalah explain that “Salomon” is “closer to the original pronunciation” (“Shalmn”) and she then proceeded to completely misspell the name in Hebrew: “shin, aleph, lamed, mem, nun”. In Hebrew, שאלמן. See the second letter, the א (aleph)? Remember please because it’s important.

    I had a shock because all of these things are wrong. Solomon’s name in the original Hebrew is שלמה (sounds like “Shlomo”). It’s how he appears in the scripture and it’s how one refers to King Solomon even today. In Semitic languages, often words come from a 3-letter root (in this case, שלם, indicating “wholeness” “completion”). It is why our words are often smaller than the English. So now you understand the name of King Solomon (שלמה המלך)!!

    Perhaps you refer to the name as one spells in Latin (“Salomon”). Ok fine, but don’t mistake Latin with Hebrew or rewrite history! It’s wrong.

    Dr. Bullard’s spelling only makes sense (pardon me) to a person with no training in Hebrew language or the Tanakh. She is a doctor of … what? Not religion or linguistics, certainly. There is no aleph, there never was, and even if there was, it’s doesn’t equate to the English A. Sometimes aleph is silent or a glottal stop. Sometimes it holds space for some vowel. But this doesn’t matter because as I have explained to you above, Dr. Bullard misspells the name entirely and it contains no aleph at all, or half the other letters she claims. Why must you teach Kabbalah if you haven’t read your Bible or know Hebrew? Why do you spread false information?

    So then I think, what is the point to INSISTING you spell “Salomon”? Is it ignorance or something sinister? Maybe to make an intellectual property claim?

    With a suspicion, I researched trademarks online and see the MMS has indeed trademarked the name “King Salomon” (with the A) for its products. So yes, they spread false information about holy scripture so they can claim ownership and make money. Shameless.

    Interesting because the Israeli center for this cult uses the correct שלמה on its website, but the English speaking teachers spread this discrepancy. They cannot get their story straight. You may verify my above story in Dr. Bullard’s recent comments on her Facebook wall, I suggest soon before she can remove them. A friend suggested the MMS to me but after doing my research, no thank you. Too much nonsense and lies.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. I was a member of the Toronto MMS. I haven’t had anything to do with the school in over half a decade. Here’s a condensed version of my story

    Saw some flyers for the school at my local crystal shop. Thought it would be cool to take some of them. Once I moved back to Toronto, I went in person, talked to some teachers, no weird vibes, so I decided to sign up.

    I took the following courses: I am an Adept (so I’m initiated), took dragon magick, Adam Kadmon (become a God-Like being), Know Thyself, Sacred Geometry I and II, Astral Travel, Enochian Sealing, DNA Activation and several others that aren’t coming to mind. All in all, with some monthly Rituals and more, I’ve spent about 2 500 – 3 000.

    It’s a hierarchy really. The Ritual Masters only hang out with each other. I was occasionally hanging out with one student, and once he became an RM, he simply stopped talking to me.

    When you take larger programs, you need to re-certify every year (big costs involved) or you’ll lose all your abilities. Say or do certain things, and the same will happen.

    Here’s the thing: I’m a born Master, walking my last life, which is the Master life or Master walk. We were having a group event, and I felt something out in space (very, very old soul). I covered the place in white light in the blink of an eye. They looked at me puzzled and asked what I was doing. I said ‘Didn’t you guys feel that?’ ‘Feel what?” they said. My answer ‘And you’re the one teaching me?’ I walked out.

    One girl I knew went up to Guide 2.0. She spent over 30 000 dollars to get to that level. Some, she paid outright, some on her credit card. She put herself in five figure debt and now has zero affiliation with the school. Even had a huge post on Facebook detailing how she got bent over for all those years. I remember asking where she was, and the Guides and RM’s (they’re usually both) said ‘We don’t talk about her anymore’.

    All initiations are documented, and photos are taken, but nothing was done with mine. My teacher said ‘Wow, there’s a lot of powerful spirits here’ I told her ‘Sorry, these are just my lower level Guides. The higher ups are busy handling some issues in another location’
    She looked at me like ‘what the hell are you talking about? These are your lower level Guides?’

    There are some genuine people there who care about the work they do. I agree that once the money runs out, or you give up on programs, that they drop you. I was interested in one girl, who was also interested in me. She told me we could have a relationship once I became a Ritual Master.

    The twice a year Toronto programs were an eye-opener. Love all your brothers and sisters, but only if they dress a certain way, or have this level of program. I saw people think they could do it all with long, complicated Rituals, and I’d walk up and do more in ten seconds. ‘How can you do that?’ they’d say. ‘How can you NOT do that?’ was always my answer.

    Dave Lanyon (Gudni’s right hand man in Toronto) did my Enochian sealing. Afterwards, we talked about gurus. We both agreed that people from ‘The Secret’ are not gurus. The real gurus are up in the mountains, away from people, because they’ve reached such a level of enlightenment, that they can’t stand the lower vibration of the masses.

    ‘Some people sell everything they own, travel the world to learn and never reach that level. Then, there are others (he looks at me) that are born with it, but want nothing to do with it’

    I answered ‘All I want to do is live in a castle on top of a moutain with a tight, twisty road so I can hustle my Ferrari every day’ After that, any time I attended an event, I was always given that ‘Oh, it’s him’ look. Not saying any of that to toot my own horn, just saying it like it happened.

    Lastly: there’s a story about how Gudni slayed an actual dragon off the coast of Scotland (I think it was Scotland). Apparently, it had made the paper. People were in awe, I kept an open mind, went home and did research for two solid hours. I even called some hardcore computer nerds, and they found nothing. I went back to the program (two part) the next day and called her out on it. I was told I didn’t look hard enough, and to try again. I asked for a date, location, and she frosted over. The students started to gang up on me, saying ‘Oh my God, she said it was true, why can’t you just believe her?’ Total sheep.

    Some people make a good living with the programs and courses they’ve learned, while some get caught up and lose everything they have. You mention MMS at Wicca gatherings, or even to Reiki Masters (I’m an Usui Master) and they say ‘decent programs, but way too expensive, something doesn’t sit right at that place, went once, never again.

    Okay, last thing: You’re told to buy your stones through the school. They get picked especially for us, they have better energy, etc. Same with Nag Champa. Twice the price of my local head shop, and nowhere near as fresh. ‘Buy your incense here, because it’s left on an altar all the time. The ones from a head shop hold a lot of negativity because of where they are’ I said ‘And why not just place them on your altar when you get home? Problem solved, right?’ ‘Oh no, it has to be from our school, you have to take this program, even if it means putting yourself in debt’

    Big. Ass. Red. Flag.

    I was going through a hard time with my health (still am) so I liked the camaraderie. Glad I’m out, and tell people exactly the way it is when the mention the school

    Liked by 1 person

  5. To the anonymous person above who’s concerned about a relative’s involvement in MMS:

    Not to scare you, but read the Cult Test at MMS hits 98 of the 100 characteristics of a cult. The only things they haven’t done yet are the final two on the list: sequester their victims in an isolated location and commit mass suicide. They already staged an apocalyptic doomsday scenario in 2012 but thankfully no one died as far as I know. Their tactics are similar enough to Scientology, but they don’t appear to have Scientology’s business acumen or they’d be a lot bigger by now.

    Source: was in the group for years and witnessed many of its abuses firsthand.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Trefor

    I cannot see any other outcome accept manipulation as being the outcome with results that may be very harmful. I would like to know why you believe that it is your duty to pass on knowledge about magic, witchcraft to people who otherwise most probably would not be interested accept there are cheap classes to go to?

    As for not being part of a group, do you have friends who are witches that you ‘socialise’ with? How many ‘new friends’ have you introduced to your little get togethers?


  7. Some years ago the MMS was a matter of discussion at a number of moots. Basically because of the nonsense claims he made about his magical pedigree. Such has membership of the golden dawn and Kabbalah groups that he is far to young to have been a member of. Unfortunately we just laughed off this pretender, however since I have meet a number of people who have fallen for the stories and spent large sums of moneys on a mess of nonsense that claims to be secrets.
    Regarding respectable and vastly cheaper or free places to learn the mysteries there are many. The SOL would be an obvious choice with a linage going back to Dion Fortune or fellowship of Isis if you don’t want to much dogma. The Order of Bards Ovates and Druids also do an excellent course, in fact there are numerous courses run by highly experienced and respected teachers who specialise in there areas with decades of experience. I have worked with a number of different groups doing courses workshops rituals etc which are free or very cheap. Simply because it is the ethos of the magical tradition that the passing on of knowledge to seekers is your duty. You may charge to cover your expenses etc but not create a burden to your student.
    I don’t belong to any group because I have my own practice of being a traditional witch of over 40years, I have ran covens and groups, taught workshops and university classes on subjects of magic, witchcraft, healing and many other related subjects. Like most people in this field Ihave a day job that covers my day to day costs, so I don’t vampirically drain any that come to me for learning or healing of their money or energy.


  8. Trefor, would you feel comfortable sharing what you’ve heard about MMS from (presumably) reputable occultists, or indeed what reputable groups you’d recommend? I was always curious how reputable groups viewed MMS.


  9. Nothing recent although, would warn you that the people running it have very dodgy credentials. Many of the people on lower levels are nice genuine people unfortunately hoodwink by the owners. What they learn and pay large sums of money for is freely available. Better run course exist teaching genuine practices for a tenth of the cost, the school is a laughing stock among serious occultists.


  10. Not particularly. But consider writing up your experience and start a new thread.


  11. Is there any update on MMS since this old thread? I have a family member who’s joined this school and I’m concerned.


  12. I am quite so gay


  13. George, the Hierarchy works with everybody. They take what they can get. A few of the people I know are Hierarchy are in that program. But to say they are all actual Hierarchy, I think, would be incorrect. These are all people. Sometimes their energy is good. Sometimes it’s bad. But regardless of that the structure of the mystery school is such that you are discouraged from doing selfless service to another. You are forbidden from giving away your energy or services for free. Does that sound benevolent? My experience of the Hierarchy and God is one of pure love and pure service. The mystery school is neither. They work with forces that are not necessary to work with. And for some, it invites things into their lives which they are not prepared to deal with. You should remember the typical person who searches for magic- someone with bad energy who feels powerless. They are trying to learn to protect themselves and trying to feel empowered. In my opinion, the mystery school both helps them and preys upon them at the same time. If you were in with alot of other people that were energy junkies, that wouldn’t surprise me at all. When I was in the school I didn’t at first question the integrity of their energy or alignment with good. But it wasn’t long before I had major disagreement with their policies that sent me out of the school. The addiction and preoccupation with money and other things were a major problem with me. I was disturbed also with their version of the kabbalah. It perverts its intention. It is true that when you are in these processes some monetary goodness can come out of it. But it is ugly and sad to think that should be some kind of end result.


  14. Hello,
    I read your post and I’d like to ask a question….. Did you experience anything spiritually while in their presence or not that terrified you? That made you question the integrity of their energy and practice in alignment with “good”?
    I was a student 2008-10 and to this day I question their words affirming truth in respect to the God I’ve always known as good and loving.
    If appreciate any insights,


  15. What you’ve said about hypnosis, etc. Is total bullshit based on nothing. I was in the mystery school, didn’t like all the issues and got out, and still know people in it. You are a paranoid nutjob.


  16. Dear Anonymous

    The activations and rituals and “magick” they do are absolute hogwash. Because they are so outlandish, your psyche finds them very compelling, which is natural human curiosity. Because everyone around you believes in them, you will at the very least open youself up to believing them too. After that happens, you are open to their efforts at hypnosis and you start believing that strange things have happened to you, and they have, but not in any weird way that you can’t make sense of and understand. It is wellknown and you can research this that no one can hypnotise you into anything that contradicts with your beliefs. Therefore, the core aim of this group and groups like it is to change your beliefs so they can then influence you. Since you have come to the wise understanding that their beliefs are insane, it’s only a question of a bit of time before your emotional world to restablises. You will find this happening a bit more every day and soon you will feel back to normal. You are very fortunate that you realised early on that you were being manipulated into a very strange and dangerous worldview. Generally, the deeper you get into it, the harder it is to get out of it. If you are a Christian, there is nothing better than the Lord’s Prayer, otherwise, perhaps you can write an affirmation that speaks to you personally, and repeat it when you need to. And just taking care of yourself, spending time exercising and in nature and doing the things you love with people you love will set you back to rights in no time.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. I know how you feel. I’m going to give you some of my observations and tell you what I did and hopefully that will give you some ideas about what you can do. The mystery school is not full of black magic by any means. But it is full of magic practitioners. And it is full of a particular kind of magic that can be seductive and draw you in to its own ends. There are many people who are very sensitive that wind up getting sucked into the whole structure. They are not bad people and some of them are special and angels in the flesh (no lie), but the structure of the mystery school itself with its rules, etc. just screw up the things they do and could do. All of their energy exchange bullshit is real problematic. But I won’t go into that just now. First of all, everything that is above the natural order of things just going along and happening as they will is a kind of magic. Prayer in any religion is a kind of magic. Willing something into being is a magic. In some sense everything you see is just an illusion, a collectively agreed upon illusion and there is no such thing as reality. The ‘natural order’ is just the illusion that has been agreed upon. That is the truth. Pain, suffering, everything good, everything bad, all an illusion. It is how your soul perceives it, how your mind has organized it that matters for you- that is your reality. People who understand this and have the strength of will are able to choose a different reality. They can make miracles. I have met plenty of people like this. I have met two in the mystery school (one has left) and I have met alot outside of it. I know there has been alot of talk about the mystery school and complaints againgst the whole thing. I’m going to tell you what mine was. 1. everything was horribly expensive. And I didn’t see that there was much return on your money. 2. Any good you could do in the world was perverted by a lack of charity. I wanted to help people, heal them. I wanted greater access to my abilities to do good and I didn’t need to charge people for things and I didn’t want anybody to restrict my ability to freely give what I could give. There were things I did learn in the first part that I used and still use today. The latin prayer, which is a Catholic prayer to drive out negative spirits, negativity, I always use that. That has nothing to do with them. I grew up Catholic (the biggest strongest magic channel there is, they’ve been doing it longer than anyone else) and that stuff works. I took the circle and made it my own. I disconnected myself from their shared energy channel and connected to the energy of God, of the Universe and connected to the Hierarchy, which is higher than anything they had. Part of it was intentional- cutting off from them. A cord cutting is nothing more than the intentional cutting off of that energy cord which has been created. We make energetic connections to others all the time. And you just see it, or visualize it and reach over your head (or across your body) and cut it off. It’s intentional. And then you don’t think about them, which can reestablish the connection. Another thing you can do, if you can’t get a handle on this, is to get something which repels all of those things. There are other ways as well, across all sorts of cultures. One really simple thing is to wear some 100% iron. It negates all sorts of energetic influence. If you have trouble finding some, here is a link:


  18. Well its being mentioned elsewhere but their great work is a badly gobbled together mix of various stuff, that any reasonably intelligent goth could knock up. Their only real power comes from using peoples fears and gullibility. Certainly some of their people will have some magical ability however knowing what they do it require little effort to dispel.
    Simply do basic cleansing on yourself and home and a simple protection ritual if you feel the need. I can point you in the direction if you need it but there are plenty of info on the net which is free and effective after all thats where most of the School stole their stuff from.


  19. Hi

    From reading your post i agree totally as i also have seen and experience it thus far and i also have decided not to continue with this.

    Upon my arrival at my first course the “empower Thy self” it was weird and i could not believe what these people are believing in and what they view as spiritual and where we will be going once we die etc. i already realized in the beginning of the course that this is BS! but what got to me the most is their rituals, like the one “prayer” or chant they taught us was in Latin and sounded exactly like the roman catholic prayer, So i agree when you said they take things that is already existing and make it their own.

    I have had the “Spiritual Activation” and then i only did one course the “empower thy self” all i am scared for now is that i have been initiated into the “School” is what is following me or with me? sounds crazy but will there be anything that they will do to me if i pull out of this?

    When you said that the only way is to get out! and avoid all spiritual activity is this to ensure that you don’t keep yourself open for anything?

    And is there any cleansing or someone i can go see to maybe purify or possibly get rid of what ever might have attached itself to me during the initiation process.

    like i said this might sound a bit crazy even paranoid but taking into consideration what you have said mentioning black magic makes me very nervous about it.

    Please if you might have any advice for me



  20. Hi Katy K, 19th Feb 2015 above.

    I am the spouse that posted the original post in relation to the MMS on Dialogue Ireland back in Nov 2011. I was exactly where you are now. I was very confused, afraid for my spouse, afraid of the impact the MMS was having on us as a couple and family, afraid of the way money was leaking out of our bank accounts, wondering at times was it me that was going mad rather than them, no idea where it would all end…

    At that time my spouse was in Toronto, I can’t remember what programmes/classes they were doing, but everything at that time was leading up the the apocalyptic 2012 stuff that they were constantly banging on about and the demons were coming.

    I wish I could tell you I found a solution that fixed the problem. I didn’t. When they arrived back from Toronto that time one of the others got back to find her partner had left her. I guess he had just had too much and I don’t think there were any children involved. Another spouse of a member started contacting with similar concerns I had. We found no answers.

    I did set some boundaries in the home, refusing to allow an alter and a dedicated ritual room (our house wasn’t big enough anyway), removed some of the paraphernalia that was being put up around the house. These caused big arguments and accusations of me operating as a demon in our lives and wanting to control and restrain. I accepted that eventually I was acting as a controlling and restraining force but only in minor ways. As long as there was access to money and a passport my spouse was at the beck and call of the MMS.

    In the end I think the energy levels required to sustain all that the MMS requires of a person simply were not there. THE MONEY RAN OUT ALSO. All the promises from the MMS about using the energy to manifest abundance ended with empty bank accounts. After spending an inheritance and cajoling money out of grandparents eventually there was nowhere else to turn. Once the MMS know the money has run out they are not so interested in you any more. Where once you were special and had a divine calling that they could help you access, now you were nothing special and not worthy of their time.

    Three and a half years on we are still together, as happy as we have been at any time in our relationship. No alter in the house, no mention of the MMS for a long time. No running off to classes in Dublin, London or America. 2012 came and went and the world didn’t noticeably change one day (that’s because they saved us from whatever wrath was coming). There were definitely times between 2010 and 2013 where I thought this can’t be happening to us and that one of us would surely leave but somehow we are still together and things aren’t so bad. The real life plans we had about renovating the house or moving will never happen now as the well ran dry.

    I really, really wish I could say something that would help prevent you from having to go through what is happening and what is likely to come. Unless you want to become the evil, controlling, malevolent influence on your husband that the MMS have already told him that you are then your options are scarce. Also I dread to think the outcome if you do try to wrestle control. From talking to others and going through my own experience you kind of have to let things happen, control what you reasonably can and don’t make ultimatums unless you are prepared to enact one. It’s a bit like dealing with a rebellious teenager except a spouse holds so many cards that a teenager hasn’t got.

    I have looked through posts on many sites about the MMS and the rights and wrongs of their claims about what they can do and the powers they have. None of this is relevant. The fact is once a person gets hooked by a cultish organisation they drive their need to be involved as much as the cult. The individual becomes the great defender of the cult and all logical arguments you make will miss the point in their minds as they have already been told how to deal with all the arguments and answers you give. You’ve lost that battle long before you knew you were in it.

    If I ever win the lottery I will fund a film/documentary about how all this works. In the meantime I am mostly looking forward rather that back and hope that my spouse does the same.

    I wish all the best for you, It’s a tough place to be.

    Contact details are with Dialogue Ireland if you wish.


  21. Having a look at the websites of “MMS” and “Universal Kabbalah Network” I’m becoming angry more and more.

    All cults are working with Alchemy, in this case they are working with one lineage of Alchemy, the Kabbalah. the alchemical Jewish way. They call it “spiritual Alchemy”, that is right, but only in one way. By the short view on the websites I had, I could see, they don’t work in the laboratory. That means, they do not practise the ancient Alchemy, which contains the coherence of matter and mind and needs a high level of knowledge. I call this “spiritual Alchemy” brain programming in a fancy-dress and abusing an old science.

    In short words “spiritual Alchemy” is self-hypnosis and the goal is to reach enleightenment. But in these cults and generally in black Alchemy, the leaders hypnotize the well paying people, or in an other way, they are working with unethical hypnosis, a kind of hypnosis modern hypnosis research does not know about and, unfortunately, does NOT WANT to know, because the consequences for this world are more than only difficult. In the moment there is no way to prove these techniques. This kind of hypnosis is simply terrible because it manipulates the nervous system directly and shoots people into dangerous states of mind, also called in modern psychology dissoziations.

    Everywhere in the world Alchemy is the same, only its clothes are different depending on the culture. There is the black Alchemy of Tantric Hinduism, Tibetan Buddhism or Lamaism, Kabbalah, Sufism a.s.o.. Now in our times it seems, more and more people in modern robes who know the techniques, like Tony Quinn and Gudni, disguise this mud with seminars. Often they stayed for a certain time in the East, especially in India.

    On one site there is written about “vibrations in the DNA”. I only can explain the people to be more than careful. I know that in Tantric Hinduism and Lamaism they know “the setting free of Kundalini Energy”. This energy shall be the requirement to go the way through the different states of consciousness up to enlightenment. There is no clear definition of this energy in the West. I try to explain it in this way: It is a changing of the neuro-endocrine-system to a higher level, and that is not nice and lightful, that is a terrible shock and may-hem. I am quite sure that this “opening” of this energy happens by a post-hypnotical command, and it is manipulated by programming with hypnosis.

    More and more I read and hear about these techniques in different contexts. Once a victim told me: “They all know how to set free this energy, but they do not know how to treat it.” It seems to be en vogue more and more to maltreat other people in this way.
    We are faced with new challenges and we have to do rerearch in unethical hypnosis and “Kundalini” energy urgently.

    For Kathy
    I tell something I know about this terrible experince you and your family are just in.

    Initiations and blessings are rituals which work in doing them again and again, and especially initiations are post-hypnotical commands, which change the nervous system, sometimes very quickly, sometimes in a slower way. The problem is, they are top secret, you have to keep silence and so the members of this knowlege are feeling very special.

    Unfortunately I have to say, there is only one way: Out, out at once and dealing with other things to come back to earth with both feet and to feel the body again. That also means, to stay away from meditation and all “spititual” doing.
    A psychologist who knows a lot about unethical hypnosis told to an other victim that hypnosis is a kind of conditioning, and what I have learned I can unlearn, but that lasts a long time. The greatest problems are the installed programs which work with thoughts. As more as I think of the leaders and of the contents of the seminars, as more in my nervous system it is joined with my feelings and so I reinforce the programs. A parapsychologist I know calls it “attention energy” . To keep this energy in distancew is a hard work of years. So there is only one way: Out and a clear cut and no more money!

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Best thing is to gather the facts do your research on this school if you need any help I’m more the willing to talk over the phone with you about the school. But I feel presenting the facts that I discovered about the school will help your husband realize he is being duped and conned and that he doesn’t need to pay $10,000 for snake oil, fake friends, and a big lie. My email is


  23. If you go to relentlessbydesign You will find an email. Please email and she will contact me.


  24. Moved from Commenting Policy. A comment from Kathy K

    My husband has become obsessed with MMS. He went to 10th Light in Seattle WA, USA on 2/6/2015 and had an exorcism, light activation, initiation, plus several classes on sacred geometry and meditation. When he was done there, he brought his “guide” to my home in Colorado, USA to do a blessing and resume the classes he would need in order to attend the MMS in Calgary Canada April 2015. He has spent $10k in 10 days. I need your help, people! I beg of you, he is searching for answers that MMA can only bill him for. I am so scared for my family. Does anyone have information that could help me help him to see the absurdity of this cult? Thank you!


  25. A lot of the stuff they made into rituals/teachings are from movies or stories. They took a lot from the middle earth chronicles, Harry Potter, Dune, and probably much more. Again it’s all a big dilusion and lie to get buckets of money from you, and take advantage of you when your weak, your child hood fantasies, your imagination, etc… Everyone figures it out eventually.


  26. Yes having know about this socalled school for many years, I was amused while watching old Denis Wheatley film the other night the mishmash of occultism presented in this film and his books with half arse understanding of the occult clearly is an influence on the ritual and magic.


  27. I was a member of this group for a little while and it didn’t take me too long to figure out what the motive with this group is.

    It’s all about the money with these guys. Wanna spend 1000s of dollars on guided meditations, make believe healing modalities, and “holy” water, this is the place.

    Not only that but these guys are so arrogant and egotistical they went out, studied occult studies for a little bit stole and made up a bunch of rituals, bash on all the other occult groups that have been around a lot longer and are available to you today that actually have more verifiable evidence and history then these guys do, and say they are the right and only way and these other groups are wrong and don’t know what they are talking about.

    They sell these healings and classes like drugs talking about how the “energy” intoxicates them, runaround acting loopy and crazy (or maybe they are on drugs), and then scare you into believing that you need them, you need the rituals, and you need to keep paying ungodly amounts of money to take these classes.

    The lineage of the school is bs, I went and did my homework asked other names in the occult world, read history on Individuals that were actually real and nothing lines up or matches, it’s ALL a fake and a lie.

    I did further research on the head of th school gudni, and the guy is a phony, he’s been one his whole life , he royally pissed off the martial arts community trying to the pull the same nonsense years ago, and lies through his teeth.

    stay away from these guys, you wanna learn kabhalla/tarot study with the BOTA,


  28. I completely agreed. My daughter is a very active member of the Modern Day Mysterious School in Toronto, Canada. When she had no money, she just withdraw the funds from her student line of credit. She has no conscience at all, especially since I am a retiree and don’t have much money.


  29. “And yes I did litteraly go crazy after the 3 days were done. I attribute it to people messing with my energy
    That don’t really comprehend or understand how to fully manipulate it”

    If, as you think, they don’t know what they are doing the schools should be closed. As far as I can see, the whole point is that you go crazy until you are mad enough to believe everything they say and keep giving them money. It’s a mind manipulating scam.


  30. All I have to say is this organization is very predictory, that is for sure. I took a class of ‘initiation’ and I felt high for 3 days and was thinking my life would turn around like they promised it would all the people that took the class with me were very timid people, scared of what and how life led them.
    I could only afford it from student loans.
    If your interested in the occult you can find all the information they give you online or In books !
    Am I upset I waisted over $1000?
    I would say it was a learning process
    But I do think they are predatory!
    I was always pressured to take more classes, but coukd not afford them
    You have to ask yourself is it with it? In the end
    And yes I did litteraly go crazy after the 3 days were done. I attribute it to people messing with my energy
    That don’t really comprehend or understand how to fully manipulate it
    I think this organization has the potential for so much but like all religions money is for most on their mind.


  31. Googling mystery schools to get prices ? Best of luck to you


  32. Hello. First of all thank you for posting this article.
    Personally I am more freaked out by all the people fighting here than about what this guy said about this school/cult whatever it is.

    First there is someone checking other people’s IP adresses (how psycho is that?)
    I also observed that the writer said these people are a fraud but he says “they send spirits” to watch you? wtf? Who buys that? are they real or are they not? how can they send spirits to watch you if they’re a bunch of fraud freaks? you kept going to a place where they told you they put spirits to watch you!?!? wtf…creepy (I would have ran out the door)

    There are other people attacking this mystery school but they claim they are from the Golden Dawn and/o free mason….LOL what a joke. The REAL Golden Down is closed (apparently it was once open but it’s now closed) the REAL people from the golden dawn do not go around advertising themselves, in fact they seem to be way to busy to do that. Also the REAL masons (not the ones led to believe they are) do not go around introducing themselves as masons (like some I personally know)

    I only saw two names Gundi and Martina on the comments, are those the only teachers? wtf? a mystery school with only two people as teachers?
    Somebody said they advertise their knowledge as new/unique but on their website they said they come from the king Solomon lineage (like somebody here said) that’s not new at all, Free masons also claim that.
    What I saw on their website was not impressive or something I haven’t seen claimed or advertised by other groups, so if you fall for that is because you wanted or did not research.
    I wonder if these are people who are seriously concerned for other people or just haters that for some reason were kicked out or did not get what they wanted and are now doing hating all over the place…too many inconsistencies and incoherence.

    I personally got interested in mystery schools and googled them. I found a site that listed the best 10 mystery schools and the Modern Mystery School was NOT among them. I do have to say I emailed every single one of the mystery schools (I found a contact email for) and I got replies with prices from ALL of them and I have to say the Modern Mystery School came up with the lowest prices.
    I was interested on doing the DNA activation, another group came up with the price of $1,000!!! the Modern Mystery School came up with a price of $150 which I thought was a HUGE difference.
    I am not saying it is cheap but compared to other schools they offered affordable prices.

    I have done yoga, hypnotism, regressions you mention it and all of the CHARGED. Psychologists and even churches charge and nobody is doing a big deal on that. I do not see anything wrong in these schools charging if you cannot afford it simply do not go there. All the “spiritual” places/groups are the same if you like it you stay if you do not you go (I have literally ran out of places) if you can pay the class you go if not you do not (many times I haven’t been able to go to seminars because of the price, I saved money once for a long time to be able to go to a Bryan Weiss seminar, remember him?- past lives shit)

    I thank you again for posting this, it is nice to see other people’s opinions. This does not mean I will go to this school or any (they are all far from me though, you can check my IP address LOL) so it is very expensive for me but, I did not read anything here that I haven’t read about other groups before. I think you go, you get what you need and you get out. How carried away you get is up to you, and if people are paying for their classes, there should be something interesting in them (since people here say they spent 6 month to 3 yrs with them, the longer I’ve been in a group has been 3 weeks lol)

    Let each person be happy if they are happy in the modern mystery school, free mason legion, golden dawn (yeah right), church, cult etc let them be as long as they do not come to try to force their believes on me it is ok.

    Btw, do any of you know something about 9 gates mystery school? that one was the one I liked the most, still it is very expensive. comments on them?


  33. I have to agree with the above comment. Everyone I’ve reached out too outside the MMS has either

    A) not herd of this fellow
    B) know him to be a hoax

    The teachings don’t match up with what’s in the text, slightly altered and students are told it’s different because what your learning from the mystery school is ancient lineage and what’s in the books is wrong/corrupt and has missing elements.

    The school doesn’t start teachings any real occult teachings till you reach their ritual master program. Before then they push healing modalities on you that cost thousands to learn and require that you travel to canada to learn them as that’s where their HQ is (tornonto).

    There isn’t a doubt their classes are expensive either. Generally range between 150-700 for normal classes, the big week long programs are a lot more and require that you contact them for inquiry. (Generally 2k+ depending on when you get into registration).

    Having been one of the many who were duped by this group, I can say it’s hard once your in to turn your back. They don’t feed you a lot fear based mumbo jumbo for leaving, they say that your always going to have some impact regardless because of your initiation/activations you’ve recieved.

    BUT! When it comes to moving to another group/studying different material that’s not mystery school or practing other things that’s where the fear based tactics come into play.

    I can say from personal experience following the traditional GD Rituals and studying the original way the GD did I’m feeling a lot more then I ever did with the mystery school. That and when I read the books, everything matches up to some degree. They may be slight variations between order to order which is fine. But no one out there claims that this is the way it’s done because ..

    Any ways, I’ve done some pretty extensive research into Gudni and found out that most of his life has been trying to dupe people with false beliefs and hoaky teachings.

    Between being a bunk martial arts teacher/body guard instructor, then this occult half arsed nonsense him and his ex-wife started in 98..

    ::sigh:: it baffles me how ones common sense goes right out the window in times of desperation. Take heavens gate for example..

    When people are hurting there is no doubt that’s when humans/people are the most vaulnerable. Charging people hundreds of thousands of dollars is just wrong and at some level murder.

    It reminds of that crack pot group warrior sage that was going around charging people 1000s to save their marriage through some new age philosophy, where they basically sat you in room for 3 days alone no phones or anything and gave you subjects to meditate on.

    I remember my friend who was in that was totally duped and and brain washed it was creepy..

    Anyways yeah just another money sucking cult like movement, there are many things they teach that are helpful but nothing short of basic self help nonsense you could pull outta a $20 book or gather from a group therapy session lol.


  34. This guy is such a ripe off merchant, I have being a practising occultist for 40yrs nobody in real occult circles ever heard of him. He charges thousands of pounds to learn a mishmash of conflicting material which he obviously doesn’t understand because he taught himself out of books. His vampire unicorn and whatever other forms of magic are simply the creation of b movie writers and have no bases in any magical system.
    His story of how he obtained his knowledge seems to change with the weather and contradicts all magical traditions that I am aware of which is a lot.
    Sadly at best this person is suffering from some form of delusional mental illness,while managing to convince people he is sane. It is much like the Kabbalah organisation that Madonna was involved with that rewrites the Kabbalist teachings to suit the founders latest thoughts. No base in historical or experiential practice just the whim of a Guru.
    Incidentally Real magical fraternities do not charge large sums of money to members to learn at most small amounts to cover costs.
    I have being teaching groups for over 25yrs and never charged a penny and even public workshop are minimal. This is because enlightenment is beyond the material realms and to make money out of aiding others to theirs goes against all true school of magic or spiritual developments core belief.
    This man is a scam artist, what is sad is that there are many good people working for him trying there best to help others while feeding his wallet.


  35. Great article.


  36. Ha ha ha ha @ anon – this picture is TOO FUNNY!!!!!! Fearless leader…..?! Oh please…..I can’t stop laughing!! they are DESPERATE to pull numbers in and send the most stupid, brain washing emails to get people to their programmes saying things like that Ritual Masters are under HIS CONTROL AND INFLUENCE hence RM’s NEED to attend programmes and Warriors of Light Training so he can see and monitor them etc on the fight with evil….oh God, I can’s stop laughing! Please people stop this stupidity…..this ‘fearless’ leader and leader of the knights templar order will do NOTHING but play games with vulnerable people and take loads of cash and if you’re not a good recruit he won’t even speak to you!
    Complete waste of valuable time – what a clown….LOL!


  37. ha ha!!! I couldn’t resist. Please take a look at this pic of their Fearless leader gudni. Does this look like any kind of warrior or knights Templar??? I DONT THINK SO!!!
    Glad people are finally seeing this clown for who he really is, a waste of time.


  38. I agree with you Angie. Hopefully people will wake up to the fact that there really is a lot of pleasure in doing the nice, simple things in life, like spending time with family, shopping, doing a job you enjoy and being in a ovine relationship, nice holidays etc. all this Gudni stuff and Tibetan/Buddhism, Dalai Lama stuff is deep manipulation on a massive scale. We all go through emotional weak periods in life, that’s inevitable on our journeys here, but please people stay strong and refrain from these silly, secretive groups which are cults. They say they don’t control you etc, but thats all they do in a very clever way. Gudni and Dave demand that there ritual masters attend international yearly programmes, and if you don’t attend they make silly threats like all your initiations will be removed. Oh, its all such a sad pathetic joke to control people. They say they will contradict themselves so that we can discern etc on the ritual master path. Why oh why do people pay silly large amounts of money for these people to play games with them and to try and control them, is beyond me! I was a part of it for a few months and what I saw was extremeIf unpleasant. Their reading are stupid and inaccurate and all the ‘secrets and knowledge’ they hand down is from books that you can buy anyway! There’s nothing secretive or powerful about MMS. If they were that powerful they wouldn’t be doing constant marketing campaigns (that fail) to attract people in, they are so desperate for new people to join, its embarrassing to see! if they are real magicians, like they say they are after years of training with Gudni (And handing over HUGE amounts of cash to him) what then can they not summon people into their classes and have them sold out?! They are always desperate to pull numbers in and rarely get into double numbers in the local UK ones that I have seen anyway. They are just desperate to earn a living as they have handed over large sums of their cash and savings to Gudni so that he can save their souls. And don’t get me started on his so – called ancestral clearings/healing he does. Where he charges tens of thousands of pounds to perform what he says are ‘huge family, ancestral exorcisms’. Its a real shame and scam, as i have not seen one person in the MMS that has paid to have an ancestral clearing, happy or abundant. They seem more depressed (but in denial) and constantly broke and trying to make ends meet. Its all very sad and these people, like Gudni and Dave Lanyon should be stopped from manipulating people that are feeling vulnerable and weak in their lives.


  39. I think it’s great that people are getting to know what Gudni is doing. The cults today, particularly Tibetan Buddhism, seem to be in the same racket; energy and financial thieves. Connecting heart energy or even sexual energy can have some very weird consequences. They rely on us staying ignorant, however, that seems to be changing now as people are deliberately disconnecting their energy from the gurus and anyone else who takes advantage. It is a very subtle abuse.

    Some huge effort is needed to educate people. Greedy ‘godmen’ push the ‘love’ and ‘compassion’ as if we are ignorant of both. They hoodwink and think us fools, however, even the Dalai Lama who keeps changing his mind about what is acceptable or not. He lies through his teeth to fit in with western thinking. He must be aware that there are too many of us out there who are not taken in by his ‘pious’ mumblings.

    It time western societies woke up to their trickery!


  40. So my post got cut off. My friend ended up disowning me. The more questions I asked the more angry she got. Just like the above posts said would happen. It seems like the MMS school is branching out and offering classes and workshops to the general public. One day intensive class on Love-Inimacy to change the way we think about how to love people but ultimatly it seems like it is about how sex is the answer to setting us free. It seems like it is trivializing love and intimacy and sex and taking it out of context or misusing it and making it very casual. I think love is often what we don’t do, not just what we do. And I feel like someone already gave us us a good example of what love is. There are lots of ways to love strangers not just having sex with them. I have not gone to the workshop so I don’t want to prejudge but it deosn’t sit well with me. I will share what i learn if i go.


  41. most trivializing it. This kind of thinking isn’t new but it seems to be more mainstream. They say we have to rethink how we love people. Hmm. I fell like someone already set that example. Sometimes love is what we don’t do rather than what we do. I’ll report back if I go.


  42. @ Anon on Feb 6 2014-8.28am has hit the nail on the head about this very stupid and brain washing MMS!! Everything you say is 1000% correct! I got into this stupid MMS when I was at my lowest nearly 3 years ago. And the way, they manipulate their own Guides is unbelievable. Credit to Gudni Gudnason for being such an amazing actor and leader and the manipulation of vulnerable people. I wonder how he’s managed to get Dave Lanyon (Thor) under his wing and work for him too! In regards to Jordan, who wants to know what happens in ISIS Egyptian temple, there is ‘connection exercises’ involved where you are connecting all your chakras to another person (that you are randomly put with) and when you open your root chakra, you are opening that up and I have heard from people that are very active in the school, close friends in fact who have after the temple ended up having sex with the people that they were doing their ‘connection exercises’ with. So be very careful with your friend as this does happen. The reason MMS give to do the ”connection exercises” is to open ALL the chakras, including the root chakra, so they can change the world with pure love energy and fight off evil forces. SIGH. They work very hard to bring in new recruits, and its embarrassing watching them try so hard via online social media marketing etc. Martina is now basing herself in London, to attract high level business/corporate people. Who from that world in their right mind, I wonder will ever go down these pointless, stupid, waste of time and money roads with MMS. They have tactics, she openly talks about them to her inner circle to pull people in via stress reduction exercises, fake readings etc and they hope then that they can pull people into the 2 days horrendous energetic download programme which they call Empower Thyself. If stuff, comes up after that, they say…’its okay, just work through it etc, its all meant to be”. Oh its a terrible abuse of people, so to everyone thinking of joining this MMS or newly in, get out quick!! Unless you want to lose your sanity, money and family and friends who have always been there for you! They will say ANYTHING to keep you there, even say your family are good etc as long as they can keep you on side and you are bringing people forward to them and continue to support them financially. They will even pretend to give you fake discounts for classes to keep you there etc, and make out that they are helping you from the goodness of your heart and say, ‘I just had to let you come into the class, as the energy coming down was going to be huge and healing or you etc…” SIGH. The rituals are very bad and call in demonic energies too not just angelic ones, so keep away!! And find spirituality through other more gentle and effective ways like yoga, meditation, exercise and the London College of Psychic Studies offers a huge range of safe modalities and training. Not this bullshit that Gudni and Dave make up as they go along.
    Stay safe everyone : )


  43. Gudni makes it all up – so no secrets are being hid from you, only shitty stories that dont match history or evidence.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. The only thing I really wanted to know was what it was that they thought the knights templar found, what their secret was. If you can tell me that you will have saved me thousands. I once tried to ferret it out of Gudni, but no dice. If you can tell me, it will give me such a sense of peace knowing I walked away from them because they were not the real deal.


  45. Here’s my experience with these clowns. I have always had an interest in the archaeological and human mysteries of the world and decided to give this a try. After all it is the MODERN MYSTERY SCHOOL. First step initiation,100$, a little weird but got it done and now i could choose between healers academy or ritual masters where u apparently learn about demons, king Solomon and the knights templar. So this was it. Having waited six months for the course i got an email stating that they have changed the syllabus and i must first do “empower thyself” for 500$. Me not being very happy but still curious, attended. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!! People crying, drawing pictures like children in nursery school, dancing like idiots, hugging and more crying, but i got it done. Then “Sacred Geometry”, staring at a circle, triangle and square on a wall for over an hour, 100$. Fascinating stuff….. If you are a complete fool. Finally got to “Ritual Masters”, 1500$ , where i will now learn about the good stuff. NOT!!!! Three days of learning nothing and time i will never get back. After the three days i was told i now had to attend Egyptian temple for another 500$, buy some crappy cloak for another 500$, then attend warriors of light for 1000$ and buy another crappy outfit for 500$ to continue down this mystical path . I now realised that as i’m kicking the ball 2 yards they move the goal posts 3 yards. I’m never going to learn anything , just lose a lot of money, so i packed my bags.

    Here is the real irony:
    1 They are all for love and saving the planet, animals trees etc. Yet the person that did my initiation couldn’t maintain a 5 by 5 garden. Green pool, dead flowers, broken gate, dirty house.
    2 Free yourself from earthly possessions, internet, banks and our modern medicine. Yet they spend more time on social networks promoting their crap than anyone i know. If you have to pay them they send you, BANK DETAILS, if they or their families get really sick or need an operation they go to the hospital. Even though most of them are healers….???? They couldn’t heal a pimple on my butt.

    My conclusion is that all of them experienced some trauma in their lives and instead of working through it chose this path of mystery and fantasy where they are now warriors, healers and magicians. They live with gnomes, fairies and unicorns even talking to appliances to make them work better. A grown man with children believing he is Thor, their fearless leader , Goonie Goo Goo, apparently is from the lineage of king Solomon and is the keeper of the holy grail. Yeah right! I wouldn’t trust him with my 50$ bicycle. I was even told that table mountain in South Africa is a sleeping dragon???? Seriously!!!!! WTF???
    So if you have lost the plot completely, want to live a fantasy, get some stupid fantasy name like Thor ,Leona ,Isis or Obi wan kenobi , lose all your friends, family and money, this is the way forward. You will even be told that your friends and family will become your enemies and that they are your new friends and family. So people that have known and supported you for years will suddenly turn against you?? OF COURSE THEY WILL!!!! THEY WILL TRY TO KNOCK SENSE INTO YOU AND BRING YOU BACK TO REALITY BEFORE YOU ARE FLAT BROKE. Exactly the opposite of what these clowns want.

    If you are curious about the ancient world, are in touch with reality, prefer to spend your money on golf clubs and supporting your family, THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO GO!!!!! READ A BOOK.


  46. When an individual is approached to interest them in cultic belief systems usually questions are asked and it becomes apparent who is important in that person’s life. The cult is looking to control so any opposing influences are seen as obstacles to the cult agenda. I can explain it in terms of what I became aware of in the Educo cult. People attending were advised to befriend cult members. Tony Quinn knew that the changes in perception, life choices etc. may concern the families of recruits. A mind programme installed makes it much easier for them to disassociate from family and friends. For instance, a young woman who had attended a seven day seminar spoke about wanting to disassociate from her friends. Following a conversation she had with a long term cult member she was convinced they would be a hindrance to her ‘new’ lifestyle. She wanted to know how she would go about getting them out of her life and making new friends. She was totally unaware of the influence brought to bear on her thinking process. I refrained from giving advice; however, the usual response given would be to attend twice weekly ‘relaxation’ classes in Eccles Street where the emphasis was put on using Quinn’s programmes and associating with ‘like-minded’ people (in the group) with the same mind programmes installed.

    Most likely your girlfriend was interest initially in the courses being sold. Recruits are made to feel they will have more control over their lives and not aware that they are being drawn into a situation where they are influenced to commit to a group at the expense of current friendships and family ties. I would say that whatever methods they use to ‘cut the cord’ it brings about the same result; more time spent thinking about the people who are recruiting her who most likely are inflating her ego and the results of what she will achieve by doing the courses. It is also likely that the school uses ‘relaxation’/a subtle form of hypnosis to ‘focus’ them on the importance of increasing their knowledge supposedly to better their lives and this can also be hugely detrimental to their financial situation and current also religious beliefs.

    I cannot help you with the form the rituals take in the Modern Mystery Schools. It would seem they are either frightened into disclosing them and/or made to feel ‘special’; accepted into an elite group. Information on Isis is found in Egyptian mythology.


  47. Just curious if the emotional chord cutting ceremony really works in other peolles experiences with it it seems like it did work in this case.


  48. Angie or anyone else My girlfriend broke up with me and had the emotional cord cutting ritual done can someone share with me what that looks like or consists of


  49. Does anyone know what this is? The Temple Of Isis in regards to the Mystery School. I have tried to find some stuff but it is pretty vague.


  50. The Egyptain Ceremony dedicated to Isis is the most recent thing i have heard about. I should just go and find out about it for myself. if they will let me attend. Do I have to get a Life Activation first or can i just show up I wonder?


  51. Thank you to Angie and Because I said so and others for the very informative feedback. Yes there are many ways for people to get hooked in the school or any religion for that matter. A feeling of acceptance and the feeling of doing the world some sort of good. I think in my case and my concern for my friend I need to let her go and she needs to do what she needs to do. I encouraged her to investigate these post and to ask questions just as I did but she says she does not have time. I have read a ton of posts here and it is clear this School and the teachings of Gudni have alot of untruths and deceptions and flat out lies.


  52. Angie, you didn’t read my post. You need to be calm before posting so you can see what is actually being said not what you think is being said. We likely agree on some things regarding schools of this nature but you are obviously in combat mode. If you have noticed everyone here seems to agree with each other on the problems of the mystery school. So you are preaching to the choir. There is no sex involved and there doesn’t need to be for someone to hook your energy. Initiation is the hook to your energy in this case. But alot of other things hook your energy and make it difficult to break free of: having sex with somebody, anybody you have had strong emotional dealings with like children or parents or your enemies. Your descriptions above are very interesting. They describe most of the world’s religions and most especially the Christian sects in America where I live.


  53. I understand when someone is concerned about whether their girlfriend, family member etc., is putting herself in danger of sexual abuse, however, there are other types of abuse and these should be considered also. There is a huge amount of evidence of mind and body manipulation and it is, by no means, a free ride into the unknown.


  54. Because I said so,

    Does a guru magician or whatever the deceiver calls him/herself need to have physical sex with someone to hook into their lower chakras? You are either unaware of or fooling yourself when you insinuate that this is the only way to get hooked into a cult. The abuser uses both.


    You need to read more about The Modern Mystery School. There is plenty of information available in Dialogue if you care to give yourself a broader view on what people say about their courses and the effects they have suffered as a result. The following may also be helpful to you. Anyone who opens their mind to accept another to work with them or join a school is taking a risk with their mental health. They are trained in the art of brainwashing; whether you are aware of it or not makes no difference to the outcome. The truth is they are not honest about what they do. They are also brainwashed! The following is as good as any place to start your investigation.

    Dr. Robert J. Lifton’s Criteria for Thought Reform

    The following material is an extract from the book ‘Thought Reform And The Psychology of Totalism’. While the book was derived using evidence from the Korean War and from Chinese citizens who fled Maoist China, the book itself is not about China or Korea but rather about universal issues of mind control and psychological manipulation. As the book states, these are “eight psychological themes against which any environment may be judged. In combination, they create an atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but which at the same time pose the gravest of human threats.”

    The most basic feature is the control of human communication within an environment
    If the control is extremely intense, it becomes internalized control — an attempt to manage an individual’s inner communication
    Control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes (information control) creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy
    Groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure
    Often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly isolated, making it extremely difficult– both physically and psychologically–for one to leave
    Sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it’s “us against them”
    Closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)
    MYSTICAL MANIPULATION (Planned spontaneity)
    Extensive personal manipulation
    Seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated
    Totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative
    The “principles” (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment)
    The individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and participates actively in the manipulation of others
    The leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members
    Legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise funds, and the deception used on the “outside world”

    The world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group)
    One must continually change or conform to the group “norm”
    Tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for the group’s controlling and manipulative influences
    Once a person has experienced the totalist polarization of good/evil (black/white thinking), he has great difficulty in regaining a more balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality
    The radical separation of pure/impure is both within the environment (the group) and the individual
    Ties in with the process of confession — one must confess when one is not conforming
    Cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself
    Sessions in which one confesses to one’s sin are accompanied by patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change
    Is an act of symbolic self-surrender
    Makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between worth and humility
    A person confessing to various sins of pre-cultic existence can both believe in those sins and be covering over other ideas and feelings that s/he is either unaware of or reluctant to discuss
    Often a person will confess to lesser sins while holding on to other secrets (often criticisms/questions/doubts about the group/leaders that may cause them not to advance to a leadership position)
    “The more I accuse myself, the more I have a right to judge you”
    The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence
    Questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited
    A reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine
    Offers considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology
    The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliche (thought-stoppers)
    Repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon
    “The language of non-thought”
    Words are given new meanings — the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way — it becomes a “group” word or phrase
    Every issue in one’s life can be reduced to a single set of principles that have an inner coherence to the point that one can claim the experience of truth and feel it
    The pattern of doctrine over person occurs when there is a conflict between what one feels oneself experiencing and what the doctrine or ideology says one should experience
    If one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group, one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to even question — it is always “turned around” on them and the questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered directly
    The underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or human experience and one must subject one’s experience to that “truth”
    The experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt
    One is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one’s own evil
    When doubt arises, conflicts become intense
    Since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not saved, and do not have the right to exist
    “Being verses nothingness”
    Impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed
    One outside the group may always receive their right of existence by joining the group
    Fear manipulation — if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses their transformation, for something bad will happen to them
    The group is the “elite”, outsiders are “of the world”, “evil”, “unenlightened”, etc.


  55. Wow. Yes very excellent point about why so many things are secret. it drwas people in. A form of manipulation. I too am not terribly open to the Tantra idea either unless I was in a committed caring monogamous relationship and did classes like that with my partner on an individual basis not with a bunch of other people. I don’t see how it would be useful with virtual strangers but it seems with the all classes the students are getting to know each other but still it isn’t my cup of tea. I really appreciate the feedback thank you.


  56. There is no sex involved in the Tantric classes but I gotta tell you that kind of thing is so wrong. And this goes for most of the westerners who are teaching “Tantric” sex classes. Energy is just energy. BUT when you are talking about energy being manipulated in those lower chakras,, NOBODY should be messing with that energy. It is the easiest way to hook someone’s energy. It is a bad thing. So, they don’t have sex in those classes, it is just instruction, but someone showing you how to move that energy around and the energetic cords that result are bad news. That is just my opinion. I guess that just makes me not very open minded. And honestly, with all the classes they are going to swear people to secrecy. Because all they have to sell is the knowledge that you get in those classes. So if you give it out to everyone they have nothing to sell right? So making it a secret means someone else can only get it if they go spend money in the class.


  57. Did they or do they have Tantric classes or workshops? That is the kind of thing that I was concerned about. My girlfriend doing that and then sworn to secrecy not telling me about it. It’s hard to be in relationship when people are being secretive.


  58. All rituals ever do is call down energy. In the case of the Catholic church they are asking for energy from God. And the rituals of the Mystery school are the same way. They are asking help from God and angels, same as the Catholic church. In the first main initiation that is what they do. But they also do a hodgepodge of other things in the school as well. There are people who teach Wicca. They do those Egyptian temple stuff in the Ritual master program and that is about people like Isis I think, etc. I never got into that so I only know general details. The Kabbalah deals with God of course. My observation regarding magic has been this: three different types of people seem to be interested in magic. The first feel totally powerless and they are trying to gain some power over their lives. This is bad news. The deficiencies in their character only become more and more obvious and painful as time goes on. The second have some tie to magic and are magnetically drawn to it, almost obsessed with it and they don’t even known why. Certain kinds of magic, once used, you have a connection to that takes some doing to break. It doesn’t matter if it wasn’t this lifetime, it will remain. The third kind of person has some abilities and is looking for a way to exercise them. Lots of religious traditions will have told them something is wrong with them because they have ‘psychic’ abilities or telekinesis or whatever and they will ever be shunned if they tell anybody in their religious tradition, wind up being recruited by gurus who wish to train them, or wind up in a magical tradition. This happens because they don’t realize there are options that don’t include any of these things and that their soul and evolutionary capacity to do these things has literally nothing to do with spirituality. If you look at what magic is, what it does and the general mechanism, it uses magic yes. To me, personally, I don’t think magic is important. It is a distraction. The important thing is your relationship to yourself and your relationship to the Higher Power (God), and your relationship to the rest of the world. Any person interested in magic (or even God) should first learn to train their own minds. If they can’t do that there is no point. They will always block themselves with their issues and disbelief that prevents all the blessings and energy that the Divine has to give.


  59. Because I said so

    Due to a horrible experience I have had with the Educo cult I am extremely reluctant to involve myself with any group or anyone who practices magic. It is an area that I don’t particularly want to know about. I become very concerned when I hear about anyone getting involved in courses that teach them how to perform rituals or learn to become a healer. Hundreds of people have thrown away their money on this. They are convinced by the schools/centres that they need to do another course to gain more knowledge so as to become adept at whatever. Not only do I think it is a waste of time and money I think it is dangerous as they do not know what they are dealing with. They swop one set of problems for another; life is not magical in the sense that their problems disappear, in fact, some find themselves with dilemmas not easily solved due to attending such schools. Why are they so easily led? I suspect they are being unduly influenced. I think they are being used by the likes of Gudni and Quinn to make a lot of money. They show a complete lack of responsibility in the mental health of their students and they also disregard financial problems when they occur due to their incessant selling of courses.

    I have never thought that the Catholic Church as a place of magic. I was taught that God gave the power to the priest to perform the ritual of changing water into wine, bread into the body of Christ; it was never understood as the priest being able to do this without the power of God. I would understand that some priests are better than others as they have a strong affinity to God in their vocation when help is sought, however, I do not associate God with MAGICAL rituals nor the power of Jesus to heal with MAGIC either.

    People have wasted years of their lives following someone who thinks he is God or Jesus Christ and ended up with nothing. Tragically, their lives are never the same again and, believe me, they would far rather go back to the problems they had in the past. Life is much easier, healthier and simpler without delving into the occult.


  60. Yes that is kind of helpful. The west coast seems a bit different from other parts of the world. But it is of no consequence now. As of yesterday my friend disassociated herself from me because of my questioning of the school and the secretive nature by which it operates.


  61. Holy cow Jordan, I have never heard any of that or seen any of that. During the Temple rituals they dress up in ridiculous clothing that looks like something out of The Arabian nights but I’ve never seen what you are talking about. I do still know people in the school. Some of the people in the school are the young artsy burning man crowd, and they are pretty wild. But in the school itself I have never seen that or heard of that stuff going on. I know guides who are very active in the school and these are west coast of United States people. As to what Gudni actually promulgates I could not tell you. He had a lovely wife who was his age and he left her and is now married to a young Japanese wife who seems very open and different by comparison. There are tons of pictures of what they do on facebook I believe. My friend who is a guide is a very conservative person. Don’t know if that is helpful.


  62. Does the school encourage or promote the polyamorous lifestyle or open relationships at all. Or are people in that lifestyle just attracted to the school? I know a few people in the school that way. Do they train sex workers? I want my friend to know what she may be getting into.


  63. Because I said so. Thank you for the detailed response. That helps alot. I am a sociology and psychology major in college and I am very skeptically about anything that claims to have all the answers. The thing I am trying to figure out is the role sensuality and sexuality plays in the school because it seems that could be a part of some of the classes and trainings if one chooses to be trained in those healing modalities using sensuality and or sex. I am concerned about my friend going in that direction.


  64. Angie, everything that is used to change the natural way of things is a kind of magic. You touch someone and with your energy or a higher energy, heal them, that is a kind of magic. You call down energy by whatever means to do something that would otherwise not happen, that is a magic. There are energy channels attached to everything in your life. Some are weak. some are strong. Some are very positive, life changing positive. others are negative. It’s always good to align yourself with a good positive life changing progressive energy channel. The church is full of magic. The rituals over time strengthen the intended result because the energy channel is continually strengthened. You get a good priest, a true believer to bless you or anything, and holy crap that stuff is better than most energy healers. I am an empath and I read energy. I sense energy. The mystery school teaches you the Kabbalistic cross to protect your body and the effect works about 12 hours or less if you are very down. But me, I’m always looking for short cuts. I look for more bang for your buck so to speak. The Kabbalistic cross is excellent for empaths. It makes you energetically invisible. But it also takes alot of energy to do. Get a good blessed Rosary and your body is protected from evil period. End of story. Easy as that. once blessed it’s blessed forever. I like that kind of magic. Don’t you?


  65. Because I said so

    “I still use a couple of those things I learned but I also just went elsewhere to get what I needed (including the Catholic church who does magic better than anybody because they have been doing it longer).”

    What magic do the catholic church do? Are you referring to the powers given to the priest to change the wafer into the body of Christ and the water into wine? Do you think they have a closer connection to God?


  66. What they talk about and don’t talk about changes over the years. I was never told not to talk about it so I will tell you whatever you want to know. I was initiated in 2006 by an extremely wonderful and talented teacher. Other than my soul teacher who died just this last year, she was and is, perhaps one of the clearest connection of the Hierarchy that I have ever met. First, I have to tell you, please DONT get initiated. Being a member of The Hierarchy, the Great Brotherhood and Sisterhood is FREE. They let all sorts of groups across the planet claim them because it makes it easier to do real good in the world. You don’t need the mystery school to be a part of something greater than yourself. You just need a sincere desire to serve the divine through serving the world. You first have the desire. Then on the dream plane usually things happen. Sometimes you will remember these things in the waking life, other times you won’t. But the important thing is willingness and dedication to making the world a better place. When you take initiation to the mystery school, that is different. They do claim the Hierarchy. But you are also agreeing to energetically be linked to their group. You are agreeing to give energy to sustain whatever it is they are doing. It took me a long time to shake the connection. I do not agree with how little it is that you get in relation to the teachings given. Gudni claims to be a member of a bunch of different mystery schools and have a clear connection to energies and angels that frankly I do not feel is demonstrated. He has taken a hodge podge of stuff and put it together and created a system. And that system needs energy to be maintained and strengthened. And that energy comes from his students. Now if he was more benevolent in his dealings with the school and the world I wouldn’t have a problem with that. But there is alot of greed involved in the mystery school. I never observed that the energy exchange was equal in any way. Soul progress could be made in much better ways. If you want to know the true Kabbalah do not go to the mystery school. Go to Bnei Baruch. The Kabbalah they teach is closer to the truth than the twisted version the mystery school teaches. It is some serious bad karma they are creating for themselves. Okay, now about intiation. It changes every few years depending on what they like to do. So I have heard some had dancing and really hippy new agey stuff. Alot of that came out of the culture they created with the temple gatherings and rituals they made up with the 60’sish costumes and free love motifs. That was never my thing but I don’t judge. Mine wasn’t like that. Months before I got intiated my teachers (my true teachers) had been trying to talk to me. I would hear them in dreams. My council. So in my initiation, my Guide’s voice changed and my head Council member could be heard clearly. The energy in the room was heavy, so much so that the Guide (person who initiates you) nearly fell over. She was a true channel to the Hierarchy. There are few in the world and she left the mystery school when I did, when Gudni left his wife for another woman and there was a division in the school in later 2006. So, in the intiation itself, first they make a circle, a ceremonial space, and then there is thing they do which they say makes your energy change directions (clockwise), which they say is the will of God (sigh, cough) and then you step forward and get initiated. NOW, I want to say that all the strongest members of the Hierarchy that I have ever met were NEVER in the mystery school and were totally put off by how they conduct business there. It was just were I temporarily wound up. Essentially when you go to that first training, at least the way it used to be, you learned like three or four rituals, one to make the circle, the Kabbalistic cross which is a protection, and a few others, which when I lost my book I actually found online. One was a affirmation to healing. another was the archangel michael clearing, and then calling down the help of the hierarchy. What you should realize is that Gudni made some of these up or otherwise adapted them. Any magician can do this. Anyone calling down energy can do this. You don’t need Gudni or the mystery school. I still use a couple of those things I learned but I also just went elsewhere to get what I needed (including the Catholic church who does magic better than anybody because they have been doing it longer). Remember God loves everybody. The Hierarchy uses whatever is available to help. And you don’t need to pay a thousand whatever dollars to get that stuff.


  67. So can any former members or people that have done the program tell me what is involved in the initiation? I cannot afford to take the two day class. One of my closests friends did but they are not allowed to talk about it or tell what the intiation consists of. Why does that make it a cult? Why is it so secret?


  68. Wow, I’m sorry to hear that Cheng Chua, how long has your daughter been a part of the school?
    This type of complete misguided awareness of finances seems to be the norm when it comes to many who participate in the school.

    Liked by 1 person

  69. My daughter has left me with a huge unpaid bills since joining the Modern Day Mystery School.

    Liked by 1 person

  70. To the person above considering joining the MMS, please don’t. I was a part of that group some years ago, walked away when there was a division in the school and then came back later. I have watched friends give their whole lives to that school. And here is my opinion and some things to consider before you decide what to do. First of all, in the past there have been some talented healers in the group. One of my friends is one of them and she is still a guide with the school. In general though, there are better ways, much better ways to get such things. I have had my guides work through the school to get me on track, but in general my teachers and guides upstairs have preferred that I stay away from them. If you are looking to get your channels and connection with Source (God) and your teachers and guides strengthened there are better ways of doing it. I learned some things that I used for protection even now, but I don’t believe they even teach these things anymore. They have changed the way they do things over time. So the idea that they are ‘handing down’ certain information is mostly not true. It is whatever Gudni makes up. He makes up or has made up his own magic system. And it does sometimes work. And anything you could make up could work too. This particular channel of magic is not necessarily recommended for you. And you should realize that you, yourself, by choosing to get initiated, are agreeing to feed that channel and lend your energy to do work that you yourself might not even be doing. Joining makes some people weaker because of this. That need to feed the channel is the reason they try to recruit talented energy heavy people. It was the reason they tried to recruit me. But frankly I couldn’t afford, regularly anyway, those classes. I was fascinated for years with the idea of blessing water and using it but I realized the Catholic Priests do it better than anyone in the mystery school could do it, so I gave up the idea of being a Ritual master. That program is massively expensive without any real benefit. This program has mostly preyed upon lightworker after lightworker. I do believe in changing a fee for taking classes because of the personal energy involved in giving someone your teachings. BUT stripping someone of the ability to do any other good in the world monetarily is some very bad karma. What you get is not really worth the price. The reason people still do spend so much money though is because of the magic put on the school. It is seductive. It is purposeful. But you don’t get nearly enough back for what you put in.


  71. Just about every comment here has been based on someone’s personal experience. I imagine there is a cost and with such a deficit in spiritual encounters, the MMS probably appeals to many, myself included. I have not attended but I am considering it. This forum has done one thing for me, it has shown me that whatever side of the argument you’re on, you are very passionate about it. It makes sense that passionate people would have an opinion about the MMS. Unfortunately, no one has posted any links or articles or references that I can use to verify any claim. Which is inline with the personal experience knowledge base. I’ve enjoyed everyone’s input. Thank you for posting your thoughts and opinions!


  72. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. …

    It is just that simple and yes he lives with in us all we have to do is open up to him and give love to ourselves and this world. First to ourselves for we are his creation.

    Its also not a bad idea to look within ourselves and see ask the true reason we are searching?

    All my love God bless..


  73. Lots of dirty sex stories with Gudni – he even teaches his students in class that only the ego would cause them to have one lover, and that if they were truly spiritual, then they would have sex with whoever they want – doesnt matter if youre married, have kids, or if it would hurt your spouse’s feelings. Hurt feelings are just ego according to him. Glad he’s so enlightened…..

    Liked by 1 person

  74. Funny you say good looking women, when I was part of the ‘shadow team’ I found out that those girls are actually paid dominatrix. (not sure if gudni pays them in the school, but that’s what they do for a living outside of Modern Mystery School)…. so, so sad….

    Liked by 1 person

  75. I became an Adept at the MMS. Three years ago. I have since found out this is crap!!!! You cannot just become an Adept!! It takes years of training and some people are just not at that level at all. some people in this life time are not here for that experience. MMS takes anyone on as long as they have money. Gundi split with his first wife who has opened the Seven Rays Mystery School, both are scammers. As they have learnt some secrets of the world and abuse them for money. They also control people. If you have become involved with them and your higher self is telling you they are a money making, controlling Cult or just quite simply something is wrong – YOU ARE RIGHT!!! You don’t believe in yourself anymore? Please get out and make an official complaint. Gundi is a millionaire and if your stupid enough not to recognise that he could not even save a Tsunami or even had any pre-knowledge it was about to happen shows what a scammer he really is. His own home town of Japan (where he has many young good looking Japanese woman working for him) came under attack for natural forces – just shows you how much evil he is really committing. I beg you people WAKE UP to the truth. Spirituallity does not cost a thing it is within you. Do not waste another penny on this scam.

    Liked by 1 person

  76. It’s not a cult or a school, it’s a BUSINESS and all topics, forums and comments should now be changed and addressed towards the MMB (Modern Mystery Business) – Lets keep it real!


  77. Anonymous

    Dialogue is able to trace the poster’s ID. When DI comments on a post with specific questions I understand there is good reason for it. Why has J not replied to Dialogue’s enquiries?

    On reading the first post I felt J needed help to open her eyes to the evidence from others who attended this school, instead, she replied with an answer that was an advertisement for MMS. No matter how sweet J’s post came across I smelt a rat and, possibly, there is good reason for it.


  78. @DI out of interest, can you tell us what the ‘
    flaw’ in J’s thinking is?


  79. Hi Angie
    “ however, anyone who has attended with any intelligence will see the attempt to sell the school”

    As you well know for people locked inside cult thinking, it has nothing to do with intelligence. People in the cult are brought to a state of FEAR which renders intelligence peripheral. This woman is no longer with the school btw and hasn’t been for years. She wasn’t trying to sell the school, just to put money in her own pocket etc. And I’m not saying all the people in the school operate this way nor so blatantly, although I did experience this kind of thing in the school.
    Ie, just as a fictional example: “I had a bad dream people were chasing me last night and I was afraid.”
    Common sense: Why don’t you go for a surf?
    Good spiritual guidance: There are many interpretations of dreams you can choose from but maybe forget it and see how you feel next week. Maybe you can find some peace by lighting a candle or going for a walk in nature, and know ultimately that only love is real.
    (I could also add, bad secular counselling and good secular conselling here for example. Eg. You will have to come to Freudian therapy for 7 years to understand your Id. Vs. if you keep having more dreams, you could journal them and if you feel you’d like to talk more about them, come and see me.)
    Cult member: Oh, you need the cord cutting and negative energy removal (to get the demons away from you) and you need the ensophic ray healing (which will link you to God and only I can do because I’m authorised by the hierarchy of light) and and and and. And the problem is, and this was my experience, the healer might say to you, just as an aside, I sometimes get bruises from fighting the negative energy in my dreams. So you leave with your eyes like saucers and fear gripping your heart, and your intelligence, if you mean the part of you that acts to protect you and keep you safe and sane, is kind of inoperative at that point.
    I shared the experience because it crystalises the modus operandi, of, I think, spiritual abusers everywhere. In this case, I approached for her specific information and not therapy or healing or anything else, so I wasn’t at all vulnerable. But she is a ‘healer and therapist’ and it’s just horrific to imagine these kinds of spiritual abusers out there and people in crisis going to them for help.


  80. @DI One does not need psychic abilities but a simple grounding in English to detect derision, sarcasm and academic one-upmanship. A sincere, eager heart would ask another of his background in the context of respect with the view to sharing and learning, or would likely choose not to speak. I realise your background is academic but as moderator of this site which brings you into contact with people with so many varying beliefs, I would prefer to see the dialogue coming from a place that respects such. This is what I meant by Christianity as I see the best Christians I admire as coming to inquiry from a place of profound peace, a deep knowingness in their spiritual faith in Christ, and love. I do not know what it means to you.
    Specifically, I am pointing this out in the context of a spiritual seeker posting here. To me it does not matter where the roots of the western mystery tradition come from or tit for tat (we all know gudni plagerises… but then we’re all plagiarists on one level or another aren’t we?) People who to grow to become interested in the western mystery tradition generally tend to be spiritual seekers. That’s what motivates many people to get involved with this cult. People who are drawn to cults like this are by nature spiritual, looking for experience rather than mental information, just like an athlete is naturally athletic or a scientist is naturally interested in deduction by the scientific method. This is 101 stuff right? And it is the essence of the tradition to understand the dual nature of the mind and about how our egos operate on the level of mind, just like we can point to the basic tenants of other faiths, Buddhism or Christian, as many of the cults on this site are for example to gain insight in how to best help cult abusers. So by your response I feel you show a very poor understanding of where abused adherents on this thread are coming from, and also a lack of respect of others.
    By the same skills that I discern your motivation, which I’ll go out on a limb and call obvious, it’s clear J is honestly inquiring in good faith. In my view, he hasn’t been completely brainwashed by hypnotic techniques yet. He is clearly openminded and sincere and he is open to some common sense comment. He’s asking for it. In my view your comment, particularly where you say something like‘so have you left our faith like your parents?’ speaks volumes. A. He didn’t say anything like that and B. Our faith? For all WE know, J is from Timbuktu. Your JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ is pretty meaningful, tho Id’s have to speculate to really determine what unlies that, and then I could validly be accused to psychism.
    You have used the word Christianity as a barb twice now. This is not a competition. In my understanding of the Christian faith a man would offer witness, and offer genuine counsel if asked, as well as simple love and prayer.
    In your case, perhaps dealing with the really brainwashed other techniques might be called for right? Perhaps this is your purpose. And such techniques would need to be used only in a state of high awareness with deep clarity, right? But in my view J is pretty lucid and so far still capable of making up his own mind of it’s pretty straightforward.


  81. DI, why are you attacking this vulnerable person who is here openly looking for information and could use ministering more than anything else, to use your parlance?

    Because we respect the privacy of the person who who leaves a comment and we have their IP address, this was in fact giving them an opportunity to actually answer some questions. There seemed to be a logical problem in the argument and the person was using their academic qualifications as a justification. I would have thought that was clear? Asking a question seems in your book to be attacking a person and what makes you assume they are vulnerable?
    I will use your reply to her to get a sense of your views:

    J I don’t care if you have studied theology or origami, you seem like a very sweet, innocent person and all I can say from my experience with this cult that if you don’t open your eyes you are in for one nasty ride with these people.

    If does not seem like you were asking about this person’s theological studies in good faith but for some other reason?

    It seems you seem to have now also got psychic ability as you are now also able to address my motivation.

    I would would expect better from a Christian, but maybe you were just having a mo like anyone and of course you can just delete this comment. It’s your prerogative.

    We certainly will not delete your comment, but it is clear you do seem to have some problem with Christianity by this reaction. We will have a better idea about this if J replies won’t we. By the way this site has nothing to do with Religion but with influence. Best Wishes DI


  82. J
    When I read your advice to a poster, for instance:

    “Like you, anger is one of the challenges I’ve struggled with. Once, before I started looking for training, I experienced rage as a red horse that I was invited to ride. The experience only lasted a few seconds but it got my attention. There are choices we make that have consequences. I was angry at someone who’d caused a great deal of harm to me and to my young child, but that doesn’t make the anger-approaching-hate wholesome. If I had gotten on that horse personification of rage, it would only have ridden into darkness. Your anger at the school could cause you more harm than any you feel the school has inflicted. Go and be a healer in the way you respect. We need commited and passionate healers.”

    I have more questions that I suspect will not be answered. What school, and who were you involved with when you “experienced rage as a red horse that I was invited to ride”? Have you not realised yet that people who promote MMS have no qualms about messing with your mind to keep you there? Think long and hard about this. I understand why Dialogue would react the way they have because most of your post reads like an advertisement for the school and it is too easy to give a story with nothing to back it up particularly when it comes to education in what you think are relevant areas that you hope gives credence to your stance on how great the school is. We have heard from too many posters to the contrary.


    First of all congratulations on having the insight to see through what that woman you posted about was doing. I also took the same view as you and thought J was in need of support and strong advice to move away from MMS, however, anyone who has attended with any intelligence will see the attempt to sell the school.


  83. and as for you you DI, why are you attacking this vulnerable person who is here openly looking for information and could use ministering more than anything else, to use your parlance? If does not seem like you were asking about this person’s theological studies in good faith but for some other reason? I would would expect better from a Christian, but maybe you were just having a mo like anyone and of course you can just delete this comment. It’s your perogative.


  84. J I don’t care if you have studied theology or origami, you seem like a very sweet, innocent person and all I can say from my experience with this cult that if you don’t open your eyes you are in for one nasty ride with these people. You are sound like exactly the kind of sweet person they will take advantage of and abuse spiritually and psychologically, never mind financially. I was ritually scapegoated by these people and there is another reference to this on this site where a guy wrote in to say his friend who wasn’t even really gay was pressured into having gay sex with an older man by gudni and then kicked out (expulsed). In the literature of how sacrifical priests work, this is textbook and it sounds even worse that my situation because it seems gudni created the ‘sin’ in a guy who didn’t even want to go there. I think you should be on high alert my friend unless you want your life snatched away from you right under your nose.

    But I want to write about another experience I had recently with an ex-member of mms which speaks to the kind of insidiousness that exists around this cult. This woman was quite high up in the school 3rd step RM and I know she left suddenly and I contacted her specfically because I was looking for information on ritual expulsion as practised by the school as I am interested in this subject in both the judaic and western mystery tradtions. She replyed to me to say no she had never been exposed to ceremonial magic for sacrificial rituals and that ‘no being of light’ would do this. This comment was supposed to make me think she was my friend (in fact ‘beings of light’ have been doing sacrifice ever since god commanded moses to do so….) She said she was a “high priestess, kabbalist and ritual master” (this is the party line ie cult speak) and that she detected negative energy around me and that she could help me but she didn’t know how many sessions it would take. This seemed to me a snapshot of how msytery school recruits. Find the person’s weakness (I’m angry and fascinated by sacrifice), then come with some cult sounding authority crap and undermine the person’s self-worth … make them think there’s something wrong with them and that they are surrounded by ‘demons’ or negative energy or evil spirits (when I got back to her and called her out or it and told her to stay the F away from me, she warned me that evil spirits can impersonate others…). And it was just fascinating to see this play out because in fact this is how the school often operates only now I saw it in the light of day and I was appalled, both by the rediculous simplicity of the ploy and by how easy is it to fall for it … particularly if you have been taken in by a few of their courses first…


  85. Thank you for that erudite response, hopefully we will also hear back from that Post Graduate Theologian, but I am not holding my breath. As a theologian myself and one interested in the field of religion I find what you say rings too, but let us wait to hear back



  86. If you think MMS teaches a long-standing tradition, then you havnt researched the history of magick. They teach new age spirituality, which is a modern blend of western and eastern ideas, watered down and altered till they mostly fit together, following the traditions of other new age groups like the Theosophical Society and Golden Dawn. Their version of Kabbalah is so dramatically altered that it hardly resembles traditional Kabbalah (they dont even have you read the traditional Kabbalistic texts, but instead recommend new age ones like Dion Fortune). If they were traditional in any way, you would have to know Hebrew and Greek, as well as have a strong foundation in Torah before learning Kabbalah (that is the only way to learn traditional Kabbalah – you can learn new age Kabbalah without that, but it is a totally different practice).

    At the furthest, MMS can trace some of it’s teachings back to Eliphas Levi and Agrippa – but even they arent that old. And those two are known for changing some traditional practices to be more modern, or to fit systems like Kabbalah and alchemy together (they contradict each other unless you alter them). All of MMS’s material comes straight from Golden Dawn and Theosophy, tho further simplified so it’s easier to sell. Heck – most of the stuff they teach is copyrighted – I even received printed out materials that was all just stolen straight from Golden Dawn authors – they sold me other peoples copyrighted material with the original copyright still on it!


  87. I’ve done graduate work in Christian theology and I come from a family of parents who both explored other faith traditions.

    So could you please explain what the relevance of having studied Christian Theology has in regard to this issue? Normally, those who have studied at that level have developed the skills of evaluating different views. So are you a Christian? Would you not then defend your faith? Or have you like your parents moved from your own position to embrace the Mystery School? It is not at all clear what you are trying to say?

    What I’ve learned at the Mystery School really does seem to be authentic spiritual training that is consistent with long-standing tradition.

    Using your post graduate skills as a theologian give evidence for the assertions above please? Which long standing tradition? Spell it out with peer reviewed evidence!


  88. J – you are making a lot of assumptions about me. I am not suffering, and I am not angry. And I never said that healers should work for free – I only said they should have some real experience and training instead of a weekend workshop. Everything you are saying just makes MMS and it’s students look worse……

    I dont speak out against the school because I am angry at it – it has nothing to do with emotions. I think the school is evil, and almost everything about it is a lie. Gudni lies about his own credentials, the school lies about it’s origins and lineage, and everyone in the school lies about the effectiveness of the classes. I actually worked alongside some of the “master” teachers, until I realized most of them are in debt to Gudni for Mage classes (4x a year at $4-5000 a class, plus airfare and hotel in Japan), and that the “master” teachers didnt even know basic info about Golden Dawn, Kabbalah, and magick in general – the school is laughable (except for the part where they rip off innocent costumers).


  89. Thank you for your kind reply. As I have gone through a similar experience to posters on this site I am inclined to believe them as I also knew nothing about the group I was with till it was too late and, let me tell you, the only thing they were interested in was my money. You tell a very different story to other people I read about in Dialogue and I cannot reconcile the two accept there are ‘guides’, as you put it, who are also under Gudni’s influence. I have gathered from information given that there are rituals performed by Gudni and other people he trained that have very strange effects. I would say they were mentally destabilising. There are also daily rituals to fight off negative energy and the strange belief they are fighting the negative energy in this world. Some are convinced they have a special role to play yet what comes across to me is they lose far more than they gain and without the mind-set induced by Gudni and others they would fall apart. As with all cults, there are courses that seem above board, however, I cannot forget the horrendous story I read sent by a spouse whose husband was totally taken in by MMS and was seriously in debt because of courses. Their marriage was ruined. He was still involved at this time and close enough to the inner circle for them to have an impact on his decisions which were totally geared towards making money for the school.

    If people work for nothing Gudni must have a particularly strong hold over them. Tony Quinn’s EDUCO cult had people who worked for nothing and, by the way, they also sold the same mind-set of getting rid of negative thinking and ‘making this world a better place’ one of his top workers even boasted about working for free and encouraging others to do the same. How strange she would work for nothing when her ‘boss’ owned millions and all of it came from his workers and people paying for classes and a healing request system that he must have made millions from. He had one of his workers dig up their ill-gotten gains from where they had buried it and smuggle it into the country he now lives in as a tax exile. They only ones to benefit from the false belief of ‘abundance’ are the ones who sell the idea. All they prove to me is they are prepared to lie to the vulnerable and even the greedy to change their lives by doing the same as they do. It is very sad when good people fall for this type of scam!


  90. Thank you for your care and advice. You seem like a sensible and kind person. You will be glad to know that I got appropriate help for my child and I from Children’s Aid, lawyers etc. I only joined the school two years later when i realized I needed training for some emerging spiritual gifts. I just told the story about my experience with anger in the hopes of helping the person who responded to my post. There was so much anger and bitterness in what he wrote. His points could have been perfectly accurate and I’d still be concerned on his behalf. The energy behind his words was very troubled.

    I think the Mystery School is rather evangelical about encouraging their classes and I’ve never been comfortable with a lot of marketing, but I will say that the quality of the classes I’ve taken has been high and the spiritual experiences I have as a result of my work in the classes feel authentic.

    I’ve done graduate work in Christian theology and I come from a family of parents who both explored other faith traditions. What I’ve learned at the Mystery School really does seem to be authentic spiritual training that is consistent with long-standing tradition. What may be missing is a pastoral care and counselling component to support the journey of people who often arrive at spiritual training during vulnerable periods of their lives. Spiritual transformation has a history of triggering very challenging periods of inner struggle.

    I have questions about how much responsibility lies with the person offering teaching and how much belongs to the person asking to be taught. I will say that I know of MMS Guides who have freely given their time and energy to supporting some very vulnerable seekers, including working with the seeker’s families and psychiatrists in supportive, non-interfering roles. This does not mean that there may not also be cases that were less ideal.

    I will certainly take your advice and continue researching and being open to dialogue. I also train with teachers who are not affiliated with a particular school and work with a spiritual director who came out of a mainline church tradition. This diversity helps keep me from getting locked into a single, blind track.

    Good luck to you. May both our journeys be blessed!


  91. J

    It sounds to me like you are very vulnerable at this time in your life. Please do not let harmful actions caused to you and your child by someone else to seek help in the MMS. I joined a, so called, healing centre, namely Tony Quinn Health Centre, and they have, so called, healing massage.

    Believe me, there are very few genuine healers out there, however, you take on much more than you seem to be aware of at this present time. After what you have been through a kind word is sufficient to draw you into, what is now known by experts to have all the hallmarks of a cult. They will tell you a pack of lies with a sweet smile on their faces and it won’t be till a few years down the road you will realise you have made a huge error in judgement by putting your well-being in their hands. People have suffered in so many ways and have lost everything they owned because of it. Step away and do research. There is plenty of material on Dialogue site to give you a better idea of what goes on. Please read as much as you can before you commit to this cult. In fact, take a year out because it is the wrong time to attach to anyone particularly when they make promises that are too good to be true. I wish you the best in building a life for yourself and your child. For the sake of your child, do not think that MMS are the answer.


  92. I think maybe we met two different Martinas. Likely you didn’t have an opportunity to meet the other guide I was referring to either. I’m sorry that you are struggling.

    I know some healers whom you might approve of because they work for free since their living is earned in other ways. Two are my mentors. They have never been involved with a formal school, but their spiritual journey also brought them to a place of struggling. We have to face our own shadows before we can stand in the light–on any spiritual path. This is just a mechanical fact of the process. You don’t need a school to do this, but you do need courage and love for yourself and others to come through.

    Like you, anger is one of the challenges I’ve struggled with. Once, before I started looking for training, I experienced rage as a red horse that I was invited to ride. The experience only lasted a few seconds but it got my attention. There are choices we make that have consequences. I was angry at someone who’d caused a great deal of harm to me and to my young child, but that doesn’t make the anger-approaching-hate wholesome. If I had gotten on that horse personification of rage, it would only have ridden into darkness. Your anger at the school could cause you more harm than any you feel the school has inflicted. Go and be a healer in the way you respect. We need commited and passionate healers.


  93. Anonymous I want to second you post regarding the length of time and study it takes to become a real healer. There are different modalities but each of them take as you say years of hard work and study. It seems to be the fashion at present for unqualified unaccredited “Guru’s” to teach healing courses in a few days for vast sums of money.


  94. J, you are talking about Martina…. She is just as brainwashed as the rest of them, and also way to invested in the school to leave, even if she admitted to herself the school is bullshit. I was in the school 3 years – it is definitely bullshit, believe me!

    Taking peoples hard earned cash for fake healings isnt “lightwork”, and even the term “lightwork” should put up red flags that this is a person who wants to do good, but isnt willing to do the real work of learning a real healing practice. You are not a healer because you took a weekend workshop, or even a week or two of training here or there. Real healers train and study for years before they start their work. MMS doesnt heal people – it steals their cash by selling them “fluff.”


  95. J:

    You cannot convince me that you have attended this school for six months. You are already brainwashed into using their language and this alone tells me you have attended for some years if not one of the ‘teachers’ of a group that has all the signs of being a cult. You may be convinced/brainwashed/indoctrinated but, in reality what you do is abusive and totally useless and makes no difference at all in this world accept to manipulate and distort perception.


  96. hmmm. . . six months into my own experiences with the Modern Mystery School, I admit to having wondered about some of the issues that have drawn criticism in these posts. What has impacted me more though is the compassion and far reaching support I have received while making a very rough transition into a higher level of being. My first Guide does incredible work around the world on behalf of the light, but I still feel her checking in on me ( a rather inept one of so many others in her care) and responding with compassion, generosity and humour to my own small, often self-centered struggles. The people I meet at the School touch me with the goodness of their hearts.

    This website comes from Ireland. One of the most truly good-hearted and kind women I’ve met at the school is one of your own. She is a Master Teacher and Guide, and probably more as well. Be proud of her. Trust that she is not greedy or stupid or brainwashed and blind. The Modern Mystery School may not be beyond reproach, but they are doing good work. Let them do it and go gently elsewhere if you are drawn else where. So much good work needs to be done to bring about Shambala. Lets give all our energy to our own serving.


  97. To Anonymous: In reply to your comment “Theres a sucker born every minute” I find this comment to be lacking in understanding and empathy for those people on a quest for spiritual answers. Do you consider everyone who makes a mistake or does something they later regret a sucker? How patronising to call them” poor people and may god show them a light away from deception”. What god whose god? It is in the name of god that people are searching for answers and in your post you are suggesting that only your version of god has the answers.

    It is the people who are dishonestly running these types of organisations that are to blame not the honest people who believe them. When are people going to start looking at things that the dishonest operative is not a hero for ripping so many people off but a criminal that should be brought to justice for false advertising, fraud & abuse of trust etc. There is inherently something wrong in a society where criminals are seen as heroes.


  98. Theres a saying, “Theres a sucker born every minute.” and that is why my friends The Modern Mystery school is still in business. kinda like Kevin Trudeau and his Global Information Network wanabee secret society.

    Poor people, may God show them all a light away from deception.


  99. My experience after being in the school for a short while, and knowing many people still in the school, is that the numbers stay about the same. Enough new people get pulled in to replace the people that leave….


  100. Annonymous: It is to your credit that you saw the scam before you were enticed into taking more courses or taking them seriously. Unfortunately, many of the students have not had the insight to form their own opinion about MMS. I would hope the numbers who do courses at this school have diminished although I would like to hear that this is actually the case.


  101. To the above comment: you are 100% accurate.


  102. I can mention a few lies. They say their lineage is 3000 years old, and that the Golden Dawns lineage is 3000 years old – the Golden Dawn is less then 200 years old, and the mystery school was started in the 90’s. There is no one in the school before 11-12 years ago except Gudni.

    Along the same lines – the LBRP is their main banishing ritual that they use all the time, and they say it is very powerful and dangerous – and only learnable if you are a ritual master (which costs a minimum of $10,000 with pre-requisites). The Golden Dawn was only a public outer order, and the first thing they taught their students was the LBRP. According to Golden Dawn sources, the ritual is not very powerful, and is only useful for beginners, or unimportant rituals.

    They say Carl Jung was a Golden Dawn initiate – he was not.

    They say that basically every celebrity was an initiate – almost none of them are (they claim the Beatles, Sting, David Bowie, Leonardo DiVinci, Paracelsus, Pythagoras, Hermes, Issac Luria, Jesus, Buddha, Dali Lama – all despite the fact that these people have little in common, and their spiritual beliefs and practices often contradict each other, and contradict MMS teachings).

    They say they teach traditional Kabbalah – they do not. Almost all the info they teach about Kabbalah is wrong – they dont even use correct translations of the Hebrew words, or really any traditional Kabbalistic practices at all.

    They say they are healers, but I havent met a single one who has actually healed anything (I’ve met hundreds of MMS students/teachers).

    Basically – anything about the history of the school is completely fabricated.

    They teach and hand out printed copy-righted material – claim it as MMS teachings, and charge you out the ass for it.

    They claim they dont need to be accredited as a school – but actually, they were rejected.

    They claim to be a school – but they have no tests or standards unless you count being able to afford their classes.

    They say that the Dali Lama is the true head of the school, and there is always rumors that he is going to send lamas to help with their more public events – but there has never been any hint or evidence of support from the Dali Lama.

    They say they do not teach dogma – but most of what they teach is dogma.

    They say that they honor the traditions of others, then continue to slander and bash those traditions.

    They tell you that you need classes and healings that you dont need.

    They say their healings work – but they do nothing.

    They claim to be the best form of magick education – they are the worst Ive ever experienced.

    They paint pictures of themselves being abundant and rich, and successful… But if you get to know them, most are in debt because of the high class prices (even most of the head/master teachers).

    They say you will become more abundant – the opposite is usually true.

    They claim to be warriors, because they do a phony “warriors of light class” once or twice a year – but most of them are middle aged soccer moms who would cry about squashing a spider.

    They claim that they are stopping evil, and that they need you to help them – but they are the real evil.

    This list could easily be 20 times this long……


  103. Anonymous Feb 15th above.

    I think we all were aware of the DEC 21 thing and the multiple explanations for the end of the world, change, transition, new paradigm etc. It would be great if you had the time and could detail the list of lies that goes on and on. The greater the exposure the greater the awareness for anyone entering the school.


  104. Reason i say Evil is because thats what it is…. they use the typical Bait and switch scam. First they tell u this is an off shout of a secret society the golden dawn, which is a lie. As im an initiate of the golden dawn and also a freemason. Then they tell u to spend insane amounts of money because the end of the world will be on dec 21, 2012 and that date has passed and nothing happened, so they lied even more… the list goes on.. and on…


  105. Interesting you call it evil. What did you see or do to make you feel this?


  106. Ya i broke free of that evil cult (Rockey Mountain Myster School aka Modern Mystery School. Gudni Gudanson) which chapter (area) did you belong to? I was from Toronto.


  107. You havent let any negative spirits into your life – that is thinking along the good/evil lines that MMS tries to brainwash you with. Distance yourself from them, and surround yourself with good friends – and you wont need to worry about evil spirits or anything. I was in the school for 3 years, and have been out for 1 year – I’m happier now then I have ever been, have no evil spirits around, and am happier then I could ever explain to have finally distanced myself from that crack-brained cult!


  108. Hi,

    I very very recently did this class (less than 5 days ago) and even as I was going through with the actual initiation I knew that I should just turn around and RUN…but I didn’t. And I regret it. In the blog you mentioned that it brings in darkness. I haven’t practiced any rituals since after being initiated and I def don’t plan on doing so ever again or ever doing anything related to the MM school. I’m afraid that I’ve let negative spirits into my life. What’s your take on your experience AFTER you got out of this ‘lifestyle’?


  109. @truthfully a little way up on the franchise system. It is true statemnt that the profit the teachers make, once they’re met their basic living expenses, will all go toward mms classes? I venture to say yes so the “supply chain” is closed. All the money goes back into the school. neato


  110. Anonymous (immediately above)

    MORE PLEASE. I can’t wait for DEC 21. Whats the story behind Dec 21 thats other than the Mayan connection?


  111. Truth will come out in less then a month… their entire ‘faith system’ is based on the “veil” dropping on december 21, 2012 at 11:11UST

    Where demons and angels will pour through portals and invade earth… i wish i was joking kiddies, this is their faith! God bless them and have mercy on their ignorant souls.


  112. I have attended to one of those classes, I think anyone with no background of examining one self and life, might fall easily into their teaching, in the other hand, it is easy not make a fuss about it, because,
    1- the material and teachings are mediocre, we can see that from other comments and from the guy who is supposed to be a master.
    2- It truly is a pyramid scheme mixed with religiosity and self help book
    3- It haven’t been commented, but at least the one i attended it was a massage place, so I think that it is the way of getting the people to follow up their teachings, which they have an specific branch for healing.
    4- Lots of placebo
    5- their main point is, feel free to believe it, what works it works, (and then they throw every kind of religious charm into the air.
    I think a lot of people commented very well and in depth about how they work.
    From having experiencing first hand, I can say that I was not very impressed about the whole thing and I was actually disappointed, their knowledge on theology and occultism is laughable.


  113. Bella,

    It’s a nice thought but highly unlikely. Unfortunately there tend to be a lot of people that use the blog who use the name ANONYMOUS. There are likely to be multiple contributors on this and other blogs using that name.
    While it is entirely posible that GUDNI does make comments he would likely see this as another example of the way that darkness works in the world attempting to destroy him and the MMS and working to prevent MMS members becoming the magnificant spiritual beings that is their calling.


  114. as anyone stopped to consider “Anonymous” may be GUDNI !!!!!!!!!!!


  115. Man, I remember watching the guides do training…. They had to bring 10 paying clients to their teacher ($650 a head) and 100% went to the teacher training them (about 8+ people were doing this at once, so 8 guides x 10 students x $650 = $52,000 that they earned, but gave 100% to their teacher instead. Not a pyramid scheme? Really? I saw 2 people get kicked out for smoking weed after investing thousands of dollars, and multiple people get kicked out because they were too poor to pay for TAN. I also watched them put every guide on “probabtion” because they didnt sign up enough new students for the Empower Thyself class….. And $150 of each Empower Thyself class goes to the INT team to print out a plain, black and white pamphlet that costs about $4-5 to produce….. And they still have to pay for their own marketing (even tho you claimed that money goes to marketing for them – it actually goes to the people youre paying!).

    And ya – MMS is ripping off the Golden Dawn, and unethically making money off of other peoples copyrighted material and work (they even include lots of directly quoted material in their pamphlets and study guides).


  116. Heres the link, Gudni and Dave Lanyon (Gudnis mini-me in toronto) claim that this knowledge is passed from King Solomon. (btw i was a member for a few years before i left) They claim that Gudni is sent from an old school from (1900’s) called “The Golden Dawn” and Gudni tells every1 its an invite school and impossible to join unless u have100k to pay. A little history here, the Golden Dawn was created by Mr. Mathers and 2 of his peers, who where all Freemasons and Rosecrusians, they created a lodge where they could teach and practice Magick). So i left and a few years ago i got accepted into the Golden Dawn, and also am a Freemason now. The only contact Golden Dawn had with Gudni was to ask him to take down copywritten symbols Gudni put on his old website when the school was called Rocky Mountain Mystery school. So I felt like i was completely lied and taken advantage off by Gudni and the whole Modern Mystery School umbrella. Even my FM brothers most never heard of it, and others told me to be careful with these ‘counterfit’ operations. Basically Modern Mystery School from my understanding (being a member for over 3 years and climbed the ranks) isa ‘counterfit’ of an occult ‘chapter’ of Freemasonry/Rosecrusianism, in which Freemasonry/Golden Dawn/ and the Rosercusians DO NOT ENDORES OR RECOMMEND. This is my experience and thank you for letting me share, I leave it up to the individual to make up their own mind and make up their own decisions.


  117. @anonymous 2 above: You twisted the facts a bit so I wanted to clarify a few things.
    Empower Thyself is the only class, where a portion goes to the school directly They have 2 year round office employees, also that money goes towards event expenses, and towards supporting the organization with expo marketing, etc. If the rest of the six hundred goes to the facilitating guide. Also, they don’t “kick people out,” they just won’t recertify them to teach officially with the school until the next time recert is offered again. Its definetly not my favorite thing about them, but that hardly qualifies them as a Pyramid scheme. Even if it were, strictly speaking numbers, those profit margins would be skewed in favor of the Guides. With any other class except ET, you do recieve 100 percent of the proceeds from your own classes.


  118. Actually they are no longer collecting TAN.


  119. Anonymous, the truth has set you free. Lets home many others will get the message.


  120. I was in the school. It is certainly a pyramid scheme – I saw that from when I first started with them. And money from most classes goes to Gudni or the Toronto team (I think something like $150 from the $650 initiatory class goes to Toronto). Also, they require $500-$1000 “tan” payments each year otherwise they basically kick you out of the school. (they say it is to recertify you, but they teach you nothing new, and it is a joke). Then you send your clients on up the ladder to higher up teachers and Gudni – everything about it screams PYRAMID!


  121. You are entitled to have your opinions on what I write. I agree there is room for healthy debate on the purpose of MMS. It is long overdue. We need to question the people who run these schools and allow the students give their opinions on how the subject matter they study has benefited their lives. We also need to listen to students who have been distressed about the subject matter and how it affected their lives.

    My opinion is based on observations of similarities between Gudni Gudnason Tony Quinn. I know some of you totally disagree with my method of exposing their scams but, since we live in a democracy and have the right of free speech, I will endeavour to clarify my reasons for pointing out these similarities.

    Both of them disregard legitimate complaints which shows a total lack of responsibility for the effects of their courses/seminars. Both admit there is a magical content to what they do and teach. They delude themselves and others into thinking they have the power to change the world. Gudni admits he is ‘fighting’ negative forces. He also admits that there are teachers in his schools who are not properly trained and, in turn, are not qualified to train students as they attract negative energy. He explains away, in one fell swoop, the very damaging and negative effects the content of his courses have on students by blaming teachers and then goes on to claim to be the only one who has the lineage and training necessary to do rituals that won’t attract negative energy. Seemingly there are very few in this world with the necessary training to tutor and bestow certification of the myriad of courses he sells. The ultimate mystery he dangles seduces some people into continuing with courses in the school. He does not reveal the ultimate mystery ‘prize’ for lifelong service until they are well and truly committed/indoctrinated. He’s on to a nice money spinner there.

    Tony Quinn is a megalomaniac. He also talks to his ‘devotees’ about being positive rather than negative. The ‘negative’ people are rejected simply because they question what he does and want to know why the promises he made to change their lives, and which they paid for, do not come about. Unfortunately, many experience the nasty reaction of Quinn and his workers as their behaviour sets off a chain reaction to perceived negativity and, in some cases, has become very abusive towards individuals who look for answers from Quinn. His shops and gyms are not making a profit but seen as useful for recruiting people.

    ‘Students’ of Quinn’s ‘philosophy’ never manage to live up to his expectations and his ‘dream’ (scam) of the evolved human has never reached fruition. According to him he is the most evolved person on this earth. He continues to charge huge amounts of money selling ‘amazing breakthroughs’ that entered his mind while he sat on his **se surrounded by luxury paid for by borrowed money. Part of his promise is a ‘life of abundance’ and since they will be able to do what he does after the seminar they will surely make their money back. Does this sound familiar to students from MMS? The subtle con keeps the money flowing into Gudni and Quinn’s pockets.

    The craftily written ‘Messages from Gudni’ covers all the bases. Those who are questioning his life are said to be living in “negativity and judgement”. He approves of and clearly points out that “It is the one in the arena” who works and toils that is acceptable to him. In other words, he tells his ‘devotees’ to ignore ‘negative’ and ‘judgemental’ people and just get on with their work. After all, contracts were made and cannot be broken.

    Even though he speaks out against people who were trained in MMS he goes on to say: “Don’t support a system that breeds evil and fools people into a false sense of security and light. Choose instead the Rocky Mountain Mystery Schools’ true lineage under the guidance of Gudni Gudnason and RMMS leadership. ” He continues to encourage people to attend the schools even when the teachers, according to him, are not trained properly.

    He also writes:
    “Remember I told you all that you would wander in darkness, you would be misguided and that I would lie to you to get you of the path, this is what I promised you in the beginning. It is interesting that you now judge me for the things I told you I would do. Instead of doing your job and fulfilling you contract you choose negativity and judgement. Predictable to say the least, my dear humans”.

    According to the above paragraph it would seem that Gudni has kept his promise. By the way, what planet is he from?

    As many of Gudni’s mysteries will remain mysteriously hidden there is no legitimate basis for discussion on the final outcome of transformation of his mythical world.

    Beating this dead horse again? I sincerely hope I have made myself clearer and I will also point out that I have no desire to persecute you or anyone else in MMS.


  122. @Angie,

    I find it really funny and hypocritical that you call my posts and the posts others that you have called nonsense, “boring” and “old hat,” when post after post you print redundant novels filled with tons of logical fallacies and repetetive generalities, most of which you’ve yourself as much admitted here have nothing to do with the MMS.

    Its very presumptuous reasoning to agressively label something a “cult,” and then say to people who disagree that their answers are “not a real answer” because they’re “just part of this cult.”

    Actually that’s the VERY definition of poisoning the well and it just further serves to reveal the strong biases on the part of the blog (especially when condoned by the moderator)!

    “Poisoning the well” is highly documented and intentionally misused logical fallacy, and it is a form of ad hominem attack. Its a shady way to undermine the impact of a person’s points. It redirects attention away from the debate. And it is something you have intentionally used to try and target me specifically using the fact I am a serial poster like you (some of the time even when the posts weren’t even mine) while parroting your personal biases, and persecuting people for having strange beliefs.

    Honestly, I think any counter point presented to you, because it doesnt validate your prejudice, would be boring for you to read, because so far any counter point presented at this forum and ANY experiences from anyone here that have obscured the blatant projection of victim and abuser, you’ve ignored them or invalidated them in some way and have gone straight for the jugular.

    All of this when you’ve never had any real exposure to this organization….So excuse me for finding your posts ignorant presumptuous and close minded!

    I have the right as does everyone here to debate what they feel is faulty assumptive and problematic.

    Now I’m all for healthy debate—but how does mudslinging encourage the truth to come out? Or a balanced arrival at an answer? If me as well as others disagree, why not ask us why?

    My educated guess would be that since you’ve already shown you’re not interested in hearing what we have to say–you are less interested in the truth and more interested cherry picking facts to support your claims–mostly to serve a need to make someone wrong.

    Its true that Gudni is a very very odd man. He’s a flamboyantly eccentric guy. Do I think he’s a strange guy?…I know he is. Were we encouraged to worship him or anyone else, or do people follow him? I don’t know how they were doing things before I came to the school 5 years ago, but from my personal experience, NEVER.
    Its also true–the subject matter, the philosophies taught are controversial and don’t fit in with most people’s views.

    I AGREE with you and others that fair questions have been raised. Maybe MMS prices SHOULD shift and be more accomodating to people. But that still doesn’t excuse personal responsibility and lack of self-management. Pointing out this careless descrepancy in logic and people’s attachment to histrionics, shouldn’t be confused with a personal attack.

    All fair criticism aside, I feel that the word “cult” is a label and an abusive derogatory slur that is being mainly used here to persecute and criticize people’s spiritual practices, and is used in conjunction with a messy pathos to manipulate the truth.

    When I was with the school, I NEVER saw extortion. Do I feel they are price gouging? For some classes maybe, and I have experienced a little overkill on the upsell of new classes, but mostly they are charging what they feel is fair. That to me is worlds apart from the blatant unethical behaivor you imply with EDUCO.

    But I’m not sure that having exhorbitantly expensive tuition and an agressive marketing strategy alone would classify them as a cult and that is where you and I mainly disagree. I feel that while they do upsell their classes, what I noticed with me at least was that they were never outside of ethical perimeters. I made the choice to be there until I felt there was nothing else I wanted to learn.

    I’m pretty clear on the empirical facts, my own personal truth, and I came here and have truthfully shared my experience. I’m sorry you and others cant accept that and that you feel the need to invalidate my posts and make me and others who have shared here and who don’t agree out to be the enemy. We’re really not the enemy, we just don’t buy into the belief that the mystery school is a cult or a scam because we’ve had differing experiences.


  123. @DI: No, I’ve already told you truthfully my relationship to the school. I do have ties. I have taken classes. I too was deeply involved. I’ve never hidden that. I’m no longer involved with the school for many reasons, but I’m still friends with many people in the school. I came on to this site because I think what people have printed here are misrepresentations of the truth.

    That and I have a problem with people who persecute others for having unusual beliefs. Paganism is still a four letter word with most people, and I’ve been a highly involved activist. While I think that what Travis and Jim have printed here are fair concerns, I truthfully feel that much of what others have said I felt was imbalanced, unjust, assumptive, dismissive, inaccurate, and just plain mean and vindictive.

    I dont think that engaging people in a healthy intellectual debate is wrong, especially when its a controversial topic where personal experiences and veiwpoints differ. A provocative dialogue helps people arrive clearly at their own truth. Thank you for creating this opportunity for us with your site.


  124. As usual there is nothing in your post that presents an opportunity for “dodging the real debates and facts”. I have nothing to do with MMS. I never claimed to study in the Mystery School. I am not interested nor do I need to attend or practice rituals as they are man-made and purely to focus attention on a preferred outcome etc., I have outgrown the need for pageantry. I understand that groups form because of a common interest. I have nothing against this. However, not all of them are harmless. I merely point out the similarity of their scams that permeate ‘groups like this’. Questions need to be asked when anyone who showed no previous signs of being reckless with money suddenly have the need to pay for MMS courses or EDUCO seminars as if their life depended on it regardless of debt accumulation and, for some, a mental breakdown. Like many who are part of these groups you choose to ignore these FACTS. Blame the victim.

    Truthfully, I say to you there is very little difference between them. I have read Messages of Gudni. It reminds me of the ‘philosophy’ Quinn put out years ago to encourage a false sense of reality and create a special path for his ‘devotees’ that lead to servicing their ‘saviour’. Both see the conscious mind as a hindrance to gaining the ‘knowledge’. Thinking is discouraged when focused on being a ‘light’ and providing ‘love and peace’ in the world. I also find them extremely boring so you must forgive me for not delving into the mysteries of illusion.
    As for “poisoning the well” – it’s cult jargon to avoid giving intelligent answers.

    It’s old hat and on it’s last legs. There will be such a clamour for plane tickets you need to book NOW. Adios!


  125. Truthfully Minister for defence The Modern Mystery School. Do you get a retainer for each comment you leave on each post?


  126. @ Angie,
    Also, Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t negate the credibility of their personal experience–its THEIR experience.

    What you are doing is called “poisoning the well”. Its a common propaganda technique many politicians and lawyers use in their arguments to discredit an opponent through bringing attention to any pre-judgements the audience might have while dodging the real debate and facts–(in this case the assumption being made is ‘positive feedback about MMS equals brainwashed cult lemming’)–and this action constitutes the very definition of being unfair.

    I would say that because you have no real basis for comparision outside of your own biases towards organizations that use network marketing, that your posts are the ones where the credibility might be questionable. And I personally find it rather flawed claim that just because one organization has unscrupulous business practices it automatically means they all do.


  127. Also…
    MMS is not a scam, nor is it EDUCO. You are blatantly twisting the truth when you obscure empirical facts with generalities by starting your sentences with such phrases as “groups like this.”

    To anyone observing, and who has the patience to read your posts, it just looks like you are trying to skate around the fact that you actually have no personal experience with MMS.

    Considering the facts, I would say just from my own experience and from what others have posted here and in other threads that your comparision is way off base.

    Interesting that you are taking great efforts to slander them just the same.


  128. @Angie:

    Basically what you have implied is that they are extorting money from people and that its one big pyramid scheme.

    Just wanted to clarify that It actually works more like a franchise.

    ….in that once you become a teacher after you’ve paid tuition and attended the programs–you profit completely from your classes and healing work, and you get to use their name, no one makes any money off you once you are a certified teacher. They used to charge yearly “Teacher Alliance Network dues,” which annoyed alot of people and so they have recently stopped the practice altogether.

    Niether Gudni or any of the Head people make any money off of any individual’s or groups earnings, other than people who have been referred personally as healing clients or students.

    If they did, this forum would have like 5000 people posting. Also they don’t really have paid employees.


  129. I find it very difficult to trust other healers after mystery school because they said their way is the only sure way and demons can work through different channels, like people in your personal life and certainly others you allow in like healers. That said I went to a lady recently because I needed some confirmation about a person I was about to let close to me who I really wanted but deep down had reservations about. This nice lady confirmed what I needed to hear from looking at a pic of mr woman and substance abuser, then she wished me love and she didn’t charge me a cent. Not that I go to psychics all the time but I knew I was about to make a mistake with mr chameleon who was so charming everyone else in my life was smitten. I’m glad I can begin to rely on healers when I need them :) most people are good, especially women working alone in cheerful homes who don’t charge an arm and a leg and don’t try to get you to come back or take a whole bunch of classes. Btw, that evening I had the great experience of being able to help a man whose family was stranded on the side of the road with a flat tyre. I live in a notoriously dangerous city but I could look in the man’s twinkling eyes and knew I could trust him because I had trusted myself. There was a lovely synergy that helps me know I am recovering from my cult abuse :) S xx


  130. Would also like to just add, that there are real genuine healers out there – just not in MMS. There are many case studies (easily found on Google) of shamans healing all kinds of illness – including cancer and paralysis. Not s single practitioner in MMS has ever done that. They are not healers, they are salespersons. And yes, their deception will often keep people from getting genuine help for problems because they are tricked into paying MMS instead.


  131. Travis and Dave:

    Exactly my point! The use of relaxation/hypnosis/meditation in groups like this is very subtle. The over use of right brain activity has the affect of interfering with decision making. One of the signs of this is confusion, which by the way, is another state of mind that is easy to programme and it does not surprise me to hear that there are long term attenders whose lives are no better and probably worse than the average person.

    The previous post from Anonymous is very clear about how she has been taken in by it. She has accepted other people taking over her life. She is very willing to pay out thousands to these people and will probably consider doing the same herself and ask for the same money from others if she so ‘chooses’. She is on good terms with Martina so it would not surprise me if she felt compelled to post her ‘positive’ experiences and downplay the extent of influence the school has in her life. This is very typical of someone ensconsed in programmes. She will continue to do this until she takes note of feelings of distress caused by the longterm effect of involvment with certain practices, or, maybe she is already aware of it and taken advise to cut back on MMS programmes. Who knows but herself.

    Anonymous’s post does not take away from the many genuine posts sent by others to have a totally different experience with the MMS and it is high time the school was shown up to be what it is; a money racket. Their lack of caring for the mental and physical health of people who attend is criminal!


  132. I have experience of Martina and others coming to my house or at events run by the school. The answer to every problem ever mentioned was a healing, activation, chord cutting etc from the school. When people were genuinely ill I never heard anyone say you should see your GP or consultant about that. One person was so ill with a serious infection and cancelled their health insurance while doing healings with the MMS and yet paid out thousands to attend an event in Japan. They were writhing in agony at times on the plane to get there. You see they were told of how important it was that they be part of the MMS classes and events and sucked it all up. I don’t fully blame the MMS, people make their own decisions and have to live with the consequences but when normally ordinary folk are behaving in this way you have to question how their normal decision making capacities become so skewed.


  133. Sorry about the late reply. No I am not exaggerating or twisting facts. I was told on may occasions that if I couldnt afford a class, I should get a credit card to pay for it – they also told this to many people I know. They spent hours trying to convince me it was a good idea to put myself thousands of dollars into debt, receiving no practical training in the process. I would never call the classes rigorous – maybe for the old ladies that make up the bulk of the school, but not for me. I kept going, expecting there to be more, or for it to finally get good, but I was routinely disappointed by the mediocre quality of the classes. Please stop making assumptions about me – all of your arguments seem to be about stuff I never said, or even thought. And no, I dont think that classes should be free – only affordable and practical. MMS is neither. People keep going because they are addicted (look at the lives and behaviors of many of the older long-term students, and you will find them as much or more troubled then the average person – it’s all a show they want you to believe is real).


  134. Oh and also, after reading all about ”The MMS recruitment team” they haven’t done a very good job with me after 3 years have they! I only attended 2 programmes, I had a good feeling after attending them for sure….and then their main european master teacher, Martina came to my house when I was going through a pretty tough emotional time, and advised me to go on holiday with my friends to Malaga to relax and rejuvenate, NOT attend one of their programmes lol!! So, their recruitment is pretty poor don’t you think? Given, the emotional, vulnerable state I was in back then! I don’t have financial issues either and she knows that, as I run a very successful business….I should of been a perfect recruit for them…? My own money, emotionally vulnerable, and I didn’t even get an email telling me how ”my life would change” if I did a program. I have been brought up by my parents to do prayer rituals, meditation, yoga etc….so all that is a normal part of my life anyway, I don’t need regular programmes with MMS to bring that into my life. But I really think you should be careful when posting incorrect info on how they ‘recruit’ emotional, vulnerable people and then abuse them, its really incorrect information. Im always telling people to go to my best friend’s yoga centres, as they offer amazing yoga and meditation, so am I recruit for her and her company? Careful, what you say, as people need outlets and groups to relax and if MMS or my friend’s yoga centre feels right to them they will spend time and money doing that. If it doesn’t work out for them, and they are not happy then unfortunately all the negative stuff will come out like, ”they were so expensive, charged me loads and it did nothing for me…” etc….I hear this from many yoga/spiritual/healing centres. Everyone should find something that is right for them and leave it at that. By the way, I pay thousands a year (along with many other people) to be a member at my friend’s yoga centre in London, and if I want to train to be a teacher will have to pay several thousand pounds more….now is that also psychological and financial abuse? But I feel great after practising at her studios! Oh well…one fine day hey we will all be happy doing what works for us, rather than complaining about what doesn’t!


  135. Well, I’ve known of MMS for nearly 3 years now and have attended a couple of programmes with them. I know many people from MMS/guides and masters and they hardly ask me to attend seminars, healings etc. I regularly go for hypnotherapy sessions, monthly in fact with a private hypnotherapist and she has nothing to do with MMS, I’ve used her for 7 years and she’s great! I love getting hypnotised and relaxing. Ive seen a couple of very good friends come through tough times emotionally and financially and they regularly do work with MMS one is now a guide….and the amount of abundance she has manifested in the last 2 years is huge! She was in debt prior to working with MMS, not anymore. As for myself, I can’t see myself doing huge amounts of work with MMS, as I have no real desire for it. They don’t say that their teachings are a secret though….as they openly advertise books people could read, and holy scripts (one of them is the bible) to become more enlightened and they are not written by MMS…..their teachings are mystical, yes….because they are from very well known holy scripts which I have studied through out the years myself, nothing to do with MMS. So, I find it laughable that you can say MMS say its a secret!!! They themselves tell people on the website, MMS/Canada one what to read and which movies to watch to become more enlightened on our journey here. I just find all this stuff so odd, that you can say stuff that isn’t even true. They do nothing out of the ordinary….not in my world anyway. I love having headings, hypnotherapy, yoga….and all this I do without any involvement from MMS. As for Gudni, I’ve never met him or have any burning desire too….I feel he has great knowledge and as for my friend who is now a Guide with MMS, she never really says he’s amazing, just that he’s a cool guy, a good teacher and she’s learnt some good stuff, but she’s certainly not in awe of him, neither are the other people I know from MMS. So, I don’t get what all the fuss is about. I just feel they are a community that help people feel better and point them in the right direction to better themselves. If you already know what works for you then you don’t really need to be a part of any group do you? Unless, you like being part of a group, then you can join anyone, including a church community, support group, whatever works for you! Are these also cults then too?? I think people should just RELAX and enjoy what feels right to them, whatever that is ; ))


  136. Was thinking the exact same myself Dialogue. It still surprises me when people are blind to the angst of students when they are abused by those held in high regard. As you know I attended the Tony Quinn Centre and they did yoga classes and NLP in their psychotherapy course. Tony Quinn controlled the structure and material of the classes and they were used to teach his philosophy. This was the main mind programme. In hindsight I know any additional material was slanted towards their interests.

    Anon will probably think, what has that got to do with MMS?

    There are similarities with MMS and EDUCO. Both SELL the idea that what they do on their courses is unique and never been done before. This, of course, is not true as it has been pointed out in many posts that there are books on the market that give the same information as you get in these classes and eastern religions have know about the power of energy for centuries. Both businesses are based on pyramid selling.Both Quinn and Gudnason are sold as having exceptional powers. Both groups, from what I experienced with EDUCO and students from MMS too, have been abused psychologically and spiritually and also financially by their, what I now consider, never-ending promises they market to fill their bank books and gain control over peoples lives ie control how they think and what they do with their time particularly when they become part of the inner circle. Both appeal to people who feel powerless and vulnerable and sold as having all of the answers in life.

    When a current course or seminar ends they find themselves getting pulled further and further into the next course/seminar that will surely make a difference in their lives. Meanwhile, a lot of them are getting further and further into debt. Some are convinced that, if only they could take on the mindset of their guru they will blessed with abundance, but in reality, I would say it happens to few. As Tony Quinn points out to people who attend his seminars, the only way to make money is to avoid paying taxes and to access other peoples money rather than spend their own. It is a cruel awakening when they realise that it is their money the likes of Quinn take over and over again.

    Quinn and Gudnason and people working for them SELL the idea that people cannot access their energy without their help. Both are master manipulators who gain control of their followers and if they cannot have APSOLUTE control they get rid of them. Both use psychological abusive techniques to do this as they deliberately set them against each other.

    Both are highly adept and teach the use of relaxation/meditation techniques while their students attend/attended courses/seminars and these, as we all know, have a hypnotic effect and are used to relax and manipulate minds into accepting whatever is being said. These are the tools and that great energy feeling is the payoff and what keeps most of you there. Putting anyone into a trance brings an experience of peace and love if that is their aim. A lot of people find it difficult to accept that they are being manipulated and controlled and will become dependent on people who do this. It can certainly stop them from seeing clearly and unable to react against abusive techniques or deal with their problems and this is, more than likely, why so many get into debt. They are not thinking straight. They are set up to have no defence against very well thought out selling techniques that are used to keep them coming back for more, so called, amazing mysteries. You will meet ‘lovely’ people in these type of organisations. Most of them get caught up in recruiting, whether it is courses spoken about in the classes or by students who talk about how great the school is to their friends etc., listen for suggestions made to bring more people into the school. Are you a student or recruiter or both?


  137. For someone who is so convinced you seem to need to return a lot to defend. #expletive removed!


  138. Well what an utter load of tosh here hey! You sound pretty bitter and annoyed at MMS. If it didn’t work for you, why be so negative? When people do yoga for example in large groups and centres and pay for the experience is that an expensive cult too? When people pay up do psychology or NLP courses etc is that also a cult?
    I’m not a teacher or instructor at MMS but know people that are and ive done a few things with them, at first I’m honest I was not convinced what it all was but about a year later I didn’t do anything and a lot of amazing things started to shift. I’ve always been into healing and light and yoga etc….but MMS brought it all together in a very classy way….and yes true, you can get a lot of what they teach in books and self study but it’s a great energy to sit in it in the classes with the master teachers leading great inspiring program’s.
    Nobody has ever pressured me to do classes or healings, in fact out of service when things were not good for me, Martina came to me herself, travelled to London and did not even ask for payment for spending a whole day with me to see that I was okay and did not try and get me to register for anything else.
    If you don’t have the money, I’ve been told that, when the times right for people they will have the funds etc….If they don’t, then it’s okay so it just doesn’t sound like them to be so blaze and say ‘oh the money will come’
    Luckily I have a great business which allows me to do this work, which only betters me as a human and be in service….IT WILL NOT DELETE MY HARDER LIFE DESTINY LESSONS I STRESS, and so do they…..but it eases up some of the tougher energies we have to experience on our journey on earth.
    And if they feel as the previous anonymous said that they would like to work with people who are truly ready they will offer large discounts etc…..I checked out all this, as I’m also skeptical about working with any organisation out there!
    And some of the healings I recieved did give me huge energy to lift some of the depression I was going through at the time to move forward on to the next part of my journey instead of wallowing in crap!
    So, to say such negative un true things isn’t brilliant!
    Wishing you love and light on your path : )


  139. Thank you for that last comment. Yes, I have taken classes with them, and have participated in many of their local and international classes held in the States and here in Toronto. I am not currently in any way a certified instructor or employee of MMS or getting paid by them.


  140. You are free to say what you like. That is my only comment.
    May I ask you if you are a part of the MMS?
    Your IP address which I have noted is close to certain centres of power in the movement.
    I have visited the area. You you confirm that you are not in any way a part of the MMS , an employee or teacher in the group?


  141. @DI : Which Anonymous are you calling out here? Many others here have also chosen the name anonymous. Since you fail to call out the other serial posters who have also participated in this and other threads… one can only conclude that the only reason you attack us for taking interest in your forum appears to be because we disagree with you.

    Your compulsion to Question comes from the right place. We can definitely agree on that one. Unfair attacks, name calling and ridicule however, do not. Regardless of what you might be intimating, I’m not the only nor was I the first individual to visit your site or even this page who has called people out for actions that are both petty and “childish”.

    To me, its unjust to not only blame others for one’s issues–but to spread gossip and say things in a public forum that are blatantly skewed by personal vendettas and judgements, I’m sure I’m not the only one who finds most of it distasteful, baseless and alot of it vicious. People who take an interest in this forum deserve to hear the balanced truth. So yeah, as you have openly given me and others that right, we have shared our beliefs and experiences.

    People are right to challenge something if they disagree with it, but through fair discourse. The actions taken here very clearly negate the directive you have which is to empower people. Even journalists, if they are doing an expose will publish counter viewpoints to promote a more balanced perspective of the truth. You don’t really allow for that here–so far you’ve only published anything negative that you can find, and you seem all to happy to skew the truth in one direction, while openly attacking anyone who steps forward and states that they disagree with you or with the opinions on this subject in the forum. That seems the opposite of fair on your part. I find that very problematic because presenting things that way doesn’t allow room for other possibilities–which I guess from the looks of it is your whole point.

    I realize my experiences and those of others here undermines your white hat stance or painting MMS as the big bad wolf, which is why you so vehemently make personal attacks and disregard the very fair and balanced points that many of us have made here…but I’m simply here to say, armed with nothing more than my personal opinions and experiences that the issues addressed here don’t fit into a box of ‘either or,’ ‘good and bad’–as much as you want them to.


  142. Anonymous: Your argument for MMS and Gudni is exactly the same as those from other people who defend their cult. They are extremely boring to read as there is no real information about the courses themselves and no testimonals from the many many people whose lives have been saved. You spend most of your time attacking other posts and I have a sneaking suspicion that what they are saying is already known to you as genuine experiences; the organisation boasts about getter bigger and this alone will make it very difficult to vouch for their mental stability. Idealistic rambling and a hodge porge of courses does not sound like the way to world peace!


  143. anonymous are you paid a retainer to be the Minister of Defence for the MMS? You are really a busy lizzy on all the posts. If you think people are childish for giving their opinion, it seems to suggest you are to keep saying peoples experience was not as THEY suggest. If you are happy in your nappy with the School let it be, or actually reply to the thread


  144. @Travis: that’s also interesting, I’ve never been told I need to put classes I can’t afford on credit by any of the master teachers in the school. It seems to me like you might be twisting the facts here. I know they accept credit, payment plans, and occasionally trades sometimes. I have been told that “the money will come,” and it usually has. Sometimes it didn’t, but guess what–when it didn’t–I used my personal discernment and didn’t take the classes.
    I would also like to point out MMS printed on the canadian website that many of the programs are very expensive and rigorous…Why would you attack an organization for something that you have been made well aware of from the beginning?

    Seems to me it was still your choice. If you’re getting a whole arsenal of modalities that you can start a healing practice or profession from, that really help people, something unusual that not alot of people offer–why wouldn’t they charge for what they feel is valuable? I’ve seen people really have amazing successes.

    In my humble opinion it would be an affront to how amazing and sacred these things really are to just give them away to someone. Is that why you are resentful? Because someone wouldn’t just let you take a class you wanted to? If you expect others to just give to you with nothing in return for all the years they’ve invested in this as their business and personal passion, you are expecting them to devalue and dis-empower themselves and enable your poverty mentality. Sometimes they have helped people who didn’t have the money though, I’ve found that when the energy is right and the student is sincerely not just expecting a hand-out, a few of them have found people scholarships, or been willing to trade for what they considered equitable services.

    As for the comment in one of your earlier posts, where you said Gudni makes 50k in one weekend–its because alot of people come to his classes. They think what they learn with MMS is neat. Obviously if he didn’t have something to offer, no one would take classes from him and keep coming back. I find it a highly assumptive claim for you to say that all the master teachers are in debt…I have known many of them personally, and most are very comfortable..and through means other than MMS. One of them even owns their own chain of Gyms, One consults for corporations, one is a nurse, one is a computer expert.


  145. Anonymous, I didnt blame the school for my decisions at all. I also didnt say I couldnt afford it. I said that I had to choose between doing the work I love, which doesnt pay enough to do MMS, or doing work that makes me miserable so I could pay. I made the wrong decision for a couple years before I wised up – now my life has never been better. All the teachers always told me: “the money will come” or “put it on credit” – trying to convince me to live in perpetual debt the way they do. There is nothing empowered about that at all. Empowerment is realizing when youve made a bad decision, and fixing it. It’s funny – as soon as I left the school, I finally got the money I had wanted to take all those classes – and I used it to pay off my only debt (medical bills from a broken hand). The universe provides when it is in your best interest!


  146. Seems more empowering to take responsibility for the misinformed choices one makes in life, and expand beyond that–rather than blame others and participate in mudslinging.


  147. it’s interesting to see that on the threads that have to do with this school, the posts that come across as negative and condescending and defensive are invariably from people involved with the school. The people who seem empowered, well, I’ll rather use normal terminology and say normal, are the ones who left.


  148. Don’t give up the day job!


  149. I will say this: the modern mystery school is not for everybody. It is for people that will take responsibility for all aspects of their life, people that want to transcend their weaknesses, people that want to be in service to the world.

    Many people that do not make it energetically then become bitter and blame the school. I know all the master teachers very well: they do not live lavish lifestyles. In this school, the higher you go the harder you work. They are all human and have their quirks, I will honor that!!

    It is difficult. It is expensive. It will take a lot out of you. All you get in response is fulfillment, empowerment, and joy.

    As for the potency of the work they do, I know many, many, many lives saved. Most of what they do is never revealed and you will never know of it. Part of becoming a ritual master is getting yourself to the point where you can be attacked by those you have tried to serve and still feel love towards them.

    To the guy who wrote the initial post, good luck with your journey! I support you all the way. And know that you, YOU create your reality so I invite you to look in the mirror and reclaim some of your power!! You are much more than you know! Love to you.


  150. Dear Anonymous,

    your sensitivity is overwhelming,

    You have addressed one element of the above comment, care to offer more?


  151. Very interesting…. So Travis, you choose to pay for a product or service you clearly couldn’t afford and now you blame this organization? You need to act like an adult and stop being a poor victimized child. If I buy a Porche 911 turbo and cant afford anything else including doing the things I love, because all I do is work to pay off the car … that is my fault as a grown adult for being irresponsible with my money and not Porche’s fault. This organization didn’t hold you back… you held yourself back.


  152. A lot of what you are saying is straight on. It is sad to look at the head teachers of the school – who sometimes make up to $50grand in one weekend, still have trouble paying bills, cuz all their money goes to Gudni. Abundance to take classes, but not for the rest of your life? Or a couple years ago, Gudni decided to be vegan, and changed the Mystery School teachings to say eating meat is wrong. …then started eating meat again. After a couple years, I realized I was incredibly happy and fulfilled in my personal life, but that I was constantly stressed over money issues tied to the school. I couldnt do the work I was really passionate about, because that work didnt pay enough to afford MMS classes – so instead of being myself, and doing work I loved, I was struggling at a job that sucked so I could pay for classes. What’s empowering about that? Things smoothed out so much since I really looked into my heart and realized how much MMS held me back.


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