The Modern Mystery School (formerly the Rocky Mountain Mystery School.)

Dialogue Ireland has received a number of calls about the Modern Mystery School (formerly the Rocky Mountain Mystery School). We do not name any group a cult, but there are concerns about cultism in this group. We have found no real confirmation to confirm these concerns so we are posting this to allow others to inform us of their experience both personally and within their family dynamic.

We have received a request from a person who is concerned about her spouse.

We publish it in full, but have changed a number of elements including geography to protect the confidentiality and anonymity of the poster. We can confirm that we received this from a citizen of the EU.

As is our practice we publish all the material from the web site of the Modern Mystery School (formerly the Rocky Mountain Mystery School). Also any links we can find to open up a full discussion.

What we are asking is this person experiencing what result from processes emanating from the group, namely the Modern Mystery School (formerly the Rocky Mountain Mystery School) or they just particular to this particular person. We have found that by opening up this debate about other groups on this blog we soon find by the responses which it is!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6O808GSq7I

 Hi there,

 I am just wondering if anyone else has come across any difficulties or has any concerns regarding the operation of an organisation operating as the Modern Mystery School (formerly the Rocky Mountain Mystery School).

 My partner became involved about four/five years ago now and at the time I assumed it was just another attempt at getting involved in the psychic/mystic/angles/new age type of thing. He has always been interested in these types of things and without a formal religious upbringing I always thought this was a way of touching on the area of spirituality without getting involved with a spiritual way..

 Anyway one day having spent an afternoon at another psychic fair locally my partner had come across the Rocky Mountain Mystery School and had undergone a short healing of some type from them. This all seemed simple enough as similar things happened on a fairly regular basis. This group had taken his details though and started to call him looking for his reaction to what had happened. They were offering other healings and therapies and telling my partner that he has special gifts of a psychic nature that they could nurture in him. He became more and more interested and started seeing them either on an individual or group basis more and more. This did not really give me too much cause for concern but then after some time my partner started talking about doing classes with them. However the costs of these classes seemed to me to be exorbitant.

 I questioned my partner as in the current climate of recession this was going to stretch our family budget. As I was the main bread winner he had little income of his own and therefore was looking to use money we had jointly saved. He was adamant that this was what he wanted to do and therefore I agreed that this would be ok. The thing was that it seemed that every time he took a course there was another one lined up that would take even more time and money. Initially these seemed to be about self development and awareness with titles such as ‘Know Thyself’ and ‘Empower Thyself’ but after a while there were courses on ‘Fairy Magic’, ‘Viking Magic’, ‘Unicorn Magic’ etc which to me seemed to be well out there and were costing a small fortune each.

 A few years ago there was a change of name and the School became the Modern Mystery School.

 A couple of years ago I became aware that there were a lot of secrets in relation to the School and that they seemed to be working towards an ‘End of the World’ scenario. I grew more and more concerned and noticed my partner becoming quite obsessed with world events and conspiracies. It seemed that the School were suggesting that they could save it’s members from the end of the world or the members could help save the planet at large. Either way it has become very difficult to deal with my partner as I have a tendency to challenge the logic but am told that there are things afoot in the world that only those in the school know about and that cannot be shared with me. It’s all a bit freaky.

 Unfortunately I have not noticed that all of the self help stuff has actually had any beneficial effect on my partner and the constant requirement for money to attend ever more courses and sometimes travel long distances to them has left us in a situation where all of our savings are gone and we have started to build up debts to fund the courses. The message seems to be from the school that abundance is available to everyone and therefore the costs of what they are offering should not step in your way. They have taught you the tools of abundance and therefore you should be able to manifest the money required to attend. Also the work they are doing in trying to protect the planet is so important that money should not get in your way.

 There are also messages about the way that evil works in this world and this can through the messages you get at home, school, from your friends, the law etc which seek to keep us all in our boxes and stop us from fulfilling our potential. They claim that their teachings will liberate you from those strictures as though you don’t still have to work with the world as we experience it. In my opinion they make it seem that everyone is working against you except the School. Therefore by expressing my concerns about the school I am only fulfilling what they say about how the people around you try to stop you from fulfilling your potential. A Catch 22!

I am becoming increasingly concerned as my partner seems at times to have the weight of the world on his shoulders. He is conflicted between our normal life and seeing the impact of the change of life behaviour he has undergone along with the financial and time pressures that have been created. However, he believes in all he is doing as he is essentially required by the school to commit fully to saving the planet from the ‘End of the World’ which is coming soon.

 I have done my own research online but real concrete information on this group seems hard to find. Their methods seems to be to be cult like in their manner and I have looked into how cults work. I am growing increasingly concerned as I see my partner moving further away from me but getting the message that it is me that is pushing him because of my questioning of what’s going on. I have come across some stuff that ridicules the leader, Gudni Gudnasson, but also blogs by him which to me are just weird.  However maybe I am just the weirdo as I am not willing to see and understand all that is there?

 I would really welcome any comment or discussion from people that are in similar situations. I would especially like to hear any testimonies from people that have perhaps had some involvement in the school or whose family members/friends have been involved.

 Good luck to all of you.

Comment from DI. We note that Ireland seems to have more

practioners than other countries,

Martina Ruddock Dublin, Ireland

is the CEO for Europe and the HQ is in Ireland.

http://www.modernmysteryschooleu.com/show_practitioner.php?webtextid=368

A holder of light for people on their journey and the planet as a whole, Martina is a Master Teacher, Guide and Healer with the Modern Mystery School.

Raised in Galway, Martina always had the desire to travel and explore.  Her travels took her to the United States where she lived for fourteen years.  A graduate in Psychology, Martina had a thirst for a deeper understanding, knowledge and truth about humanity, the world we live in and the purpose of all.  It was this desire that brought about her encounter with the Modern Mystery School and from there, her own personal journey and inner transformation, an experience so profound that it compelled her to make it her life’s work.

Over the years, through her healings and teachings, Martina has enabled many people to rediscover and remember their true selves.  She has reignited the spark within many, and empowered them to live their lives with love and joy, striving to achieve their highest and truest potential.

In 2004, Martina returned to Ireland to establish and run the European Headquarters of the Modern Mystery School.  Traveling internationally as a Master Teacher, Martina conducts a variety of dynamic workshops all focused on spiritual awareness and personal empowerment.  She has taught in Ireland, England, Sweden, Turkey, USA, Canada, Singapore, Middle East and South Africa, unifying the spirit within each person and every community she visits.

With a heartfelt desire and willingness to share core mystery school teachings, Martina has the ability to convey the deepest esoteric wisdom in the simplest and clearest manner to people from all walks of life, regardless of background, nationality or creed, truly knowing no boundaries.  With wit, humour, understanding and authenticity, Martina connects with everyone on a multitude of levels, leaving all who spend time with her with an undeniable and heartfelt experience, one that is truly profound and inspiring.  She leaves all whom she encounters with the unique energy from her presence and teachings, along with a true example of how to live the teachings she conveys.


http://modernmysteryschool.com/

Martina Ruddock

http://modernmysteryschool.com/master-teachers-leadership

Martina lives and works in Ireland. Her background in psychology gives her a unique ability to understand the dynamics of human relationships, plus she is a gifted psychic with the ability to access core information about people and give them guidance on all types of life situations. Her special talents for making things look easy are well appreciated by her students whom she teaches in the Teacher’s Program as well as other core programs. Martina is the CEO for MMS Europe and also serves on the MMS leadership team for Ireland and the UK.

http://www.modernmysteryschooleu.com/index.php

http://www.modernmysteryschoolsa.com/index.php

http://www.modernmysteryschoolsa.com/aboutpresenters.php?webtextid=277

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14896

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?5,49713,51613

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58558962

http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/psychic-paranormal/48076-rocky-mountain-mystery-school.html

http://www.evocationmagic.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4376

http://www.mmscanadianhq.com/what-is-a-mystery-school/

http://www.mmscanadianhq.com/where-do-i-begin/

http://www.mmscanadianhq.com/faq/#why

Note how they address the question as to whether they are a cult?

How do I know you are not a cult?

It is said,  ‘A cult is what the big congregation calls the small one.’

This is a very interesting question that comes up now and again with new people when they try to get a feel for the school and what we are all about. The Oxford English Dictionary defines the term cult as:

  1. A system of religious worship directed towards a particular figure or object.
  2. A small religious group regarded as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.
  3. Something popular or fashionable among a particular section of society.

Well as for point one; every religion on the planet is defined as a cult. As for points two and three they can be applied to numerous corporations, organizations, institutes and political groups.

For the purposes of putting all those interested in joining the school at ease we will assure you of the following:

  • We do not own, operate or participate in any way shape or form with a compound(s) where students would be forced to live. When a student comes to a program or class they typically stay in a hotel that they book, based on their budget etc, unless they are at or near their home in which case they normally would stay there.
  • There is no one GREAT LEADER who is the end all and be all of the school and its beliefs. The school is composed of many, many Master Teachers from all walks of life and backgrounds in many different spiritual teachings, who have come to agree on the basic principles and understanding of the lineage and the teachings of the school. So there is no venerated leader sitting on high in which to ‘obey’.
  • We do not demand or ask our students to behave or ‘worship’ in any way or form except that which they feel comfortable with. Doing it in the way they personally connect with the most.
  • The school’s entire system of training is based on FREE WILL and taking control of your choices in life and not surrendering them to us or anyone else.
  • We do not control or manipulate students sleep patterns or eating habits in any way shape or form. This is a SCHOOL. You come to class and learn and go on breaks and do whatever you want, just like any other school on the planet.
  • We do not attempt to control people’s choices in what they do with their life including their love life, family life, personal career choices, etc.
  • We do not ask, demand, hint, suggest or recommend in any way shape or form for our students to surrender their personal property, possessions, houses, furniture, cars, first born or anything else to be given to the MMS. In fact we have never taken these things (except normal payment for classes) and we never will as it goes against everything we represent and believe.
  • We do not want students to ‘hang around’. We are not your family we are teachers and administrators. Once you have finished your class or a major program we ask you to return to your ‘normal’ life and apply whatever new understandings or skills you have learned in MMS. Most do, however it’s your choice and your FREE WILL to act upon this.
  • We are not exclusive in a system or belief in GOD. In other words, we do not believe there are only ‘one or two ways’ in which to connect to the divine. Although we teach many different ways to connect and work with the energies of the divine we do not attempt or desire you to stop doing what works best for you and your own personal connections. This being said we have many people from numerous spiritual/religious backgrounds including numerous forms of Christian, Buddhist, Islamic, Jewish, Shamanic, Pagan and Hindu belief systems. Each student takes the new pieces of information they have learned and applies it to their own personal belief system to help enhance their personal connection to the divine.
  • We believe primarily in FREE WILL and kindness to all people, animals and all living things in general. Kindness, acceptance, and compassion above all else. In our modern age there is NO excuse by any person, country, group, organization, corporation, religion, etc, to be inhumane to another human being, whether based on political, moral, personal or spiritual grounds, period.

And lastly… just ask any of the 20,000+ students  in over 36 countires world wide who have attended our classes their opinion and you’ll find FREE WILL is tantamount to their lives!

111 Responses

  1. Oh – above someone asked abut abuse in the school.
    Gudni hires dominatrix’s to perform in his temples in Japan. Some of them are forced into that line of work (at least one that I know of). He also convinced a 20 year old friend of mine to sleep with an older male friend of Gudni’s, even though the 20 year old wasnt gay. That 20 year old now has drug and alcohol problems he didnt before.

    A number of people in the school or who have left the school have told me that they were manipulated by Gudni or other teachers quite often. Some of them were mentally and emotionally abused, and a couple were sexually abused.

    Nasty stuff. But enlightening, I’m sure. (not!)

    Liked by 2 people

  2. When I was in this school, I never had money or time to chase my real dreams….. I was in it for 3 years, and it constantly held me back. I stayed because friends in the school told me how great and powerful the school was….. But I could see all of them slowly loosing the battle to have an awesome life. They kept getting less and less out of life, and spending more and more on the school.

    Within days of leaving, I finally got enough money to chase my dream I had had since before the school. All the issues that I hadnt been able to fix while in the school suddenly fixed themselves…. I guess that shows me what the real problem was!

    Leaving was one of the best decisions I ever made – thank God!

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I was one of the first group to join.I left after become a teacher/ guild /rm. I now do all my light work over the web with the golden dawn. you pay once a year around 80euro and all teachings are open to you.just rememeber light will always remove the dark, so let it shine all who have been wronged will grow if you let the love and light
    blessing to you.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. What prompted you to stay with an organization for years if it was nothing but hocus pocus? A Kaballah course with the MMS is about a year. Why did you repeat this commitment that you deem a waste? Lastly, you didn’t say how you ‘know’ a number of students were abused. Did you witness this abuse? If you did not, you cannot truly ‘know’ anything. If you did, then that makes you an accomplice.

    And you might want to note that I never stated I learned any healing modalities from the MMS. I have received them for the purpose of my own growth and development. I am not a practitioner recognized by the MMS. I am only a student and client. I find it interesting how quickly, and seemingly easy, it was for you to ‘assume’ what I meant by paying for modalities. How often do you distort people’s words?

    Are you able to see the nastiness you have expressed towards me for expressing my experience with the MMS even though I did so without any attack on anyone in this thread whatsoever? Even though I completely disagree with everything I’ve read here, I did so with respect for others feelings.That level of compassion and understanding towards others is what I have found to be the foundation of all of MMS teachings as well as the intent of the guides as individuals.

    Yes, I can absolutely admit that just because I haven’t seen something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. And I also have enough awareness and intuition to know that if there is anything in the MMS that I would not agree with, it is certainly not along the lines of any type of abuse. I am 100% confident in that.

    I’m choosing to refrain from discussing your questions regarding healings because you have sent a very clear message to me that your interest in conversing with me is driven by argument. Arguing doesn’t interest me.

    Wish you well

    Like

  5. MMS student – great that you werent one of the unluckky ones! But I think you can admit – just because you havnt seen something, doesnt mean it doesnt exist right?

    I was in the school for years, and was personally never abused. Lied to all the time, and they made promises that were never delivered on (all classes and healings fell short of their promise for me). I do know a number of students who were emotionaly, psychologically, and even sexual abused by members of the school (including Gudni himself).

    Pyramid scheme all the way (which are illegal by the way). That is obvious to anyone who hears about the school – I even asked my first teacher that when I signed up!

    And of course – If you dont have the money, you aint good enough to learn!

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  6. You spent $1000’s to learn “healing modalities”? And probably charge plenty for them too right? How many people you healed for those thousands of dollars? How may times do you need to be healed before it works? Just wondering…. Seems like once youre healed, youre healed – doesnt make sense you have to keep doing more “healings” and classes if the first ones worked at all….

    I finished their Kabbaah class twice – was pretty easy actually. All you have to do is afford it, and not wise up to how much of a waste it is. Not like they really give you any tests like a actual school would. I wish I had those thousands back, and more then that, my time back – biggest waste ever. Wasnt even real Kabbalah, just new age hocus pocus……

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  7. I’ve been a student of MMS for several years and I can’t say I can relate to a single thing I’ve read on this post.

    I take the classes I want to take and I take them when I want to take them.
    Classes are offered to me. They are explained. The prices are given.
    I have never been ‘surprised’ with the final cost. I have never been told that if I take a certain class, I will magically transform into anything. I have never felt even slightly pressured into taking any of the classes or receiving any of the healing modalities offered.

    People I interact with, comment often on my strength and deep level of self understanding. I receive this feedback from just about everyone I meet and from everyone that knows me.

    The people that were in my life that were closest to me, ie family members, close friends and my husband are all still in my life and not a single one of them is a student at MMS. There was a time that I was having some marital problems. The MMS guide that I work with played a huge role in helping me turn these difficult times around. As a result, our relationship is stronger than I could have ever imagined.

    I did not begin my studies at the MMS as a lost person. I was already successful in my career and I already had very positive relationships. I began with the MMS for the purpose of expanding myself spiritually.

    The MMS is not a crutch. The teachings are indeed extremely powerful and the support I have received on my journey has been amazing. My life has gone from good to awesome in the years I have been with MMS.

    No one reads my mind. No one tries to manipulate me. I am there of my own freewill. I’m an intelligent woman, I stand on my own two feet, I take full responsibility for myself and how I interact with others. I had that mindset before I began with the MMS and since the MMS. My years with the MMS have helped to refine and strengthen me as a human being.

    Yes, I have spent thousands of dollars on my training and healing modalities and the only thing that will prevent me from spending thousands more is if I felt the MMS is no longer serving me on my journey. I am most certainly free to make that decision.
    I do not regret spending the money I have spent for I see it as an investment in myself. A gift I give myself to live a more fulfilling, more meaningful life than I had before. It is by no means a fix for anything broken.

    I noticed some comments were made about Satan and evil spirits being sent after you. I have never heard any dialogue focused on this in any of the training I have received. No talk of conspiracy theories either.

    I also noticed some comments regarding Kaballah and someone that quit in the middle of Kaballah. Haven taken Kaballah, I can understand how that can happen. Kaballah is intense. Some will refer to it as working on removing the negative side of one’s ego. Completing a Kaballah course is no small feat. Students can expect their buttons to get pushed. Mine certainly have. But I also know that in order to grow and expand as a person, you are going to have to look at some parts of yourself that you would rather not see. This is similar in CBT and Shadow Work. It takes a lot of courage, determination and strength to do this kind of inner work. I can easily see how someone going into it that feels lost in life, unwilling to take an honest look at themselves, easily influenced by others and looking for a way out of life’s difficulties can have an extremely difficult time taking in these teachings.

    The MMS does not claim to be the only mystery school. Their claim is they are one of seven but the only one open to the public. I am grateful they are open to the public since I did not have any connections prior to my involvement to get in as I would need for the other mystery schools. The downside to this is there are many people that come into the school that are in a low point in their lives and would probably be best served by a therapist for some time before beginning this work. But that’s just my opinion.

    As for looking inside ourselves for our own answers, I couldn’t agree more. I don’t bother asking my MMS guide for the answers to my life…I have heard others and her response is always the same…”go into meditation and ask your higher self…you already have the answer”.

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  8. Similar to Tony Quinn, I would speculate Gudnason’s cult uses ‘focusing’/hypnosis to ‘create’ the scene (projected picture). The indoctrination is very subtle. They use it to ‘exalt’ and ‘ridicule’ simultaneously and, in the case of Quinn, to prepare them for seduction. There is never any doubt as to who is in control. The methods they use ‘hook’ the beguiled into believing a different version of Jesus and misuse Christian teachings using ritual (the sacrificial lamb comes to mind in Gudni’s ritual) and following the mind-bending techniques the ‘initiated’ are led to believe they have a special role to play in this world.

    They believe they are free when, in fact, they are ‘focused’ and caught up in minute details and somehow see the ‘importance’ of it all in relation to their life. It actually cuts them off from what is really happening around them and they rarely have an interest in groups who are very active in working on behalf of others. They may hate or adore the person who ‘hooked’ them but as long as they remain ‘focused’ (caught up the hypnotic ‘teachings’) they would find it very difficult to extricate themselves from the ‘source’ i.e., Quinn and Gudnason and ‘tutors’ who are trained in hypnosis, etc., who, under the direction of their leader, are very heavy handed in their approach. They are the ones who get blamed when something goes wrong.

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  9. How I agree with you comments Angie & DI.

    It is certainly about control and not liberation.

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  10. Angie thanks for your service to our MMS readers. What is also clear is that the Esoteric and NEW AGE Jesus often separated from Christ bears no relationship to the Jesus of history. Like with Quinn the person is reoriented to an occult Jesus who is used to control the person rather than free them. Only the Infinite personal can free the finite personal. Here it is actually the Infinite Impersonal,plus time plus chance masquerading as the real thing. It is about control not liberation.

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  11. Strange as this may sound, Dialogue, I have come to believe that there are people like Gudni Gudnason and Tony Quinn who, as well as manipulating people’s minds, manipulate what we call energy chakras. I saw bright and dark energy while I was on a Tony Quinn seminar. What they do causes change in a person’s psychic awareness and experience and how they perceive other people.

    MMS and Shamanic rituals encourage spiritual guide communication and the belief that this guidance comes from a higher power. Gudni taps into a student’s belief system, for example, Christianity and puts them through a ritual that convinces them they have a special calling and work to do on this earth. His methods cause a shift in the person’s sense of reality. They are encouraged, or insulted and abused, into letting go of their current perception of reality and of who they are and embrace the ‘new’ role in life, a different persona who is set ‘free’ to become a recruiter for Gudni and ‘love’ and ‘light’ in the world. Reality has a totally different meaning to someone ‘chosen’ to ‘fight evil forces’. Tony Quinn’s EDUCO cult looks for the same result in that he believes a person can reject ‘negativity’.

    From reading the posts on MMS I would say their new reality involves ‘living’ as a pure light, a dispeller of darkness who joins forces with Gudni Gudnason’s/God’s work. It raises the question whether Gudni uses drugs to heighten the experience as whatever he does has a very strong affect in some instances and similar to taking hallucinogens.

    Similar to Quinn’s methods, the ‘guilt of past deeds/insulting reminders of past behaviour’ and the ‘sins/not living up to his standards’ they commit in their daily lives are used to lower their defences. ‘Healing’ sessions could easily distort reality, past and present. Having experienced ‘pictures’, supposedly of a past life, being projected by Tony Quinn on his seminars it would not surprise me if Gudni used a similar technique. Imagination is a powerful tool to change reality. I would also say they are discouraged from talking about it and, when they do, they are silenced by accusations of either lying or hallucinating. Gudni charges large sums of money to perform the ritual and it would not surprise me if he stresses the ‘special’ calling and to remain silent about it; convincing them of their special status in this world and not to divulge the ‘mystery’. What I find very disturbing is the use of rituals, known only to MMS, that are used to reinforce a person’s belief in Jesus’s suffering and convince them they are called to live and suffer as he did. His ritual somehow ties in with Christian beliefs; The ‘energy’ light radiating around Jesus; the special message and healing he brought to the world; the spirit of Christ appearing to the apostles and his message ‘I will always be with you’ is referring to the ability of spirit being present in the world and capable of communicating with the living; the pierced heart of Jesus who suffered to save the world. Under the influence of Gudni all of the above could be used to confer special status and, simultaneously, sets them up to be rejected and reviled.

    His acquired hypnotic tricks are a menace to people. Anyone who is following him or being trained by him should stop! and consider leaving the school. It does not matter how many books you read or how many rituals you take part in, you do not have the power to change this world and anyone who tells you differently is lying!!!!!!

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  12. Hi Anonymous:

    Oh yes, there was the stuff about me having “special gifts” and how hurt everyone one felt when I left the class. I think what hurt them most was a kick in the pocketbook.

    Interesting that you describe what happened to me as a “glamour.” My experience was intoxicating, intense and that was only the one day workshop! I am SO GRATEFUL that my intution kicked in and said, “This is wrong. There is something very VERY wrong about what these people are doing.” I also had the same reaction when I saw the crystals and other paraphernalia on the table. My thought was, “Oh, brother, I’ve already been there and done that. Magic rocks? I mean, really?!!”

    I too have seen plenty of sexual opportunism in spiritual settings and been a victim of it. I think it is extremely common. I don’t think it is ever appropriate for spiritual leaders to get involved with their students sexually, even under the aegis of “Tantra.”

    MMS makes a complete shambles out of many ancient spiritual traditions and, yes, in the long run, I think it can make a person completely crazy. Add in the paranoia of the Good vs. Evil meme and it is one toxic brew.

    I don’t think Gudni has any idea of what he is doing. I suspect he is a master manipulator with strong charisma and people are sucked in by it, especially women. (Who especially love to be told that they are “special”.) He claims to be a master practitioner of NLP which is used by police and border guards to determine if someone if lying. When I took a look at Gudni’s facebook page, I noticed that an awful lot of his friends are young women ages 20-30. I found it predictable and also disturbing.

    But the thing to know about people like this is that, at some point, they are going to make a fatal mistake. The ego will have finally taken over and they will do something so nuts that the law will be broken or there will be a scandal. You can just about set your watch by it. When a certain amount of money or power has been gained, the underlying flaws of the personality will have license to come charging out. I am afraid for people in MMS who may have to witness or be involved in something truly horrific.

    I guess from having been inside and outside of a similar cult of personality, and I do believe this is a cult, I have a certain train wreck fascination with this sort of phenomenon.

    I think there very few individuals on the planet aside from Amma and the Dalai Lama who can staunchly withstand the temptations of the power, money and adulation that are being laid at Gudni’s feet.

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  13. Yeah Love. I was pleasant with you but that doesn’t mean I want you looking deep into my eyes and hugging me and carrying on. no offense. Sally

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  14. Dear Love,
    The purpose of this site is to assist the victims of cultism. Unfortunately you are promoting particular therapies and I suggest you do so privately with any person but not via our site. we will now delete those sections dealing with your commercial activity from our site
    DI Moderation

    Like

  15. Dearest Sally,
    I really feel the pain and humiliation that you have experienced and I am sorry that you had to go through what you did. All emotions that are held within, will find a way to come out.(This section deleted by DI Moderation)
    Blessings and love to you. If you were here with me now, I would give you a big hug and look into your beautiful eyes, acknowledging the divinity within you. Know you are amazing and no one should ever tell you otherwise. Love xxxxx

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  16. @E. Funny. This is the glamour. I also had intense experiences. My dna activation made me sick for days, clearing, clearing, clearing. I was very sick, but you know what, I would have cleared it anyway over that year. It would have been better and more integrated and on my own. I know other people where it had no effect. So what? Do crystals affect our brainwaves. In some ways, it would appear so. Do I want to learn that stuff from unhealthy people. No. Angie once wrote that it’s scary when someone gets a little power. For me, when i was in adept class for example, I looked at all the things the table was crammed with, pentacles, stones, statues, incense etc, you name it, and my inner reaction was “this is pathetic”. I said to verla, what is all this crap? She said, this is not crap, these are tools of power. So, typical me didn’t listen to my gut and off I went up the garden path. But deep down I have always known we don’t need all that stuff and you certainly don’t have to be SOLD everything under the sun. It all costs hundreds and hundreds and thousands of rands. But because of my DNA experience, I was hooked. But I always did wonder, how we can more into a new paradigm laden down with all this ancient baggage. Oh wait God, let me all all my tools of power, then we’ll chat. I looked at the size of verla’s suitcases and thought, that’s not me, I travel light. Does no one else notice this glaring discrepancy? “Ancient teachings for modern times and gudni making himself an honory “indigo”. I also had a healing with verla that I know did NOTHING …. and her reading? She told me I combined the elements for heavens sake! “Very difficult work.” What am i supposed to make of such nonsense. It certainly did not resonate but at the same time, I though, hey, I’m special (You were told you had special gifts right?) This is deliberate manipulation. But because the activation affected me, I kept going back. But I had to be honest with myself and my spirit was leading me toward christian mysticism, inner devotion. Had to leave all that excitement behind. So yes E that’s the glamour. In light of the emails from the leaders of this school, it is very difficult in the context of this site to advise anyone to take any classes with this group ever, even if you feel it’s your path. It makes it very evident where your mind will end up.

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  17. Yes, I did receive my money back. I have been following this thread because I still scratch my head trying to understand what attraction I had to it in the first place. It’s very strange. I had done a short workshop with one of the other teachers and it blew my socks off. My reaction was extremely NOT normal for me. I think that teacher used music tape with biaural beats in it. I think my brain liked that and, hence, the attraction. My common sense just stopped working. It was very weird. So I still read about others’ experience just trying to make sense of my own.

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  18. hi E
    I never had a problem with Verla. I enjoyed her fresh no-nonsense approach and she’s the reason I stayed with the school. The SA crowd were a bunch of bozos as far as was concerned. I am also American however, and I know a lot of south africans find strong american women “too much”. Of course she was in cahoots with gudni re the planned expulsion ritual and dealt with me absolutely duplicitously and I’m not sure I have processed all the anger I feeel towards her yet. oh well, such is life. why are you still so interested in the school ? it’s been a while and she gave you your back money right?

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  19. Hi Sally:

    Last spring I had a brush with MMS. I started a Kabbalah class but after the first weekend had such bad vibes that I quit. The head teacher was Verla W. I remember you mentioning her before and I would be curious to know about more of your experience. From the get-go, I never could get a read on her. I guess what I mean to say is that I could never get a feel for where she was coming from. Also, the class materials seemed garbled and going nowhere. I suspected that the rest of the Kabbalah class would be the same. Something just wasn’t right. Do you have any thoughts?

    Thank you, E

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  20. Hi Love

    Thanks for your comment. I wish I could have been in your strong position when I met MMS and enjoyed their classes and been wise enough to pick and choose etc. I’m quite interested in advaita and tanta to be honest, and one day I might even take a class again but definitely with my eyes WIDE open. Certainly I would never get involved with a school as crass in their techniques as this one. And I’m definitely over the whole good and evil crap. And of course, with the whole money thing etc. The fact that MMS took me broken and absolutely deceived me and broke me further with their scapegoating, from a therapeudic perspective, which is how I’ve been using this forum and have stated such, is wrong. These general kinds of abuses is why the site exists, to help people through. You are very gentle in your statements above, which is appreciated, and I’m at the point in my healing process where I can accept what you say and even feel excited to move my life forward. But there may be others not ready to hear that yet so why make them feel like their healing process is not ok? Some psychologies could go straight into guilt, oh I’m not allowed to get better, I have to be strong. When really get need to get very very angry see. In my case, I have a wonderful loving friend who teaches tantra but I was too scared during and after mystery school to even let her near me because I thought she might be a demon. I though demons were everywhere. Gudni told me my best friend was a demon and it terrified me. Now I know she’s disfunctional in the same way my mother is. Why would he do that to someone as confused as I was at the time? Anyway, the tantra friend, now I’m reading her blogs now and relating to both her love and her strength and generally allowing the world back in, expecially with my sexuality because Gudni told me I was in Divine Union and ordered me never to have sex again! I just don’t know Love … you tell me? When I first posted on this site a year ago, I was afraid demons would attack me for doing so. Sooooooooo, while you’re very sweet, I think we’ll all know ourselves when we’re better. I’m familiar with most of the posters on here and there is no one stuck in victim mode on the MMS threads. People seem to be moving through nicely. I post regularly, but I’m interested in mind control techniques as well as still moving through my trauma. There’s a few nasty little tit-bits I havn’t been brave enough to share yet, but maybe, at some point, I’ll decide I want to do so. Another example, Angie posts reguarly but from a place of empowerment and vulnerability. When she’s ready I’m sure she’ll move on, but maybe not, maybe she’ll decide to work in this field because she’s passionate about making vulnerable people aware of the dangers. And that’s all OK, Love. Maybe you have never been vulnerable, maybe you had an empowering childhood etc, but there are a lot of people out there who can be very damaged by there groups. And anyway, I’m just using that as an example, Angie can post till kingdom come and that’s her choice and right and mine too, and as well-meaning as you are with your message of empowerment, that’s the PURPOSE OF THIS SITE. I hope you can understand that it’s not for us to put perameters on other people’s work and again I don’t see anyone “stuck” here. Best regards, SALLY

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  21. With the greatest respect to you all. Know that where we place our energy, what we focus on, only grows, either in positivity or in negativity. I kindly suggest, and this is merely a suggestion, that we all need to let go of the experiences of the past, the drama etc., by doing whatever it takes, to bring healing and clarity, then forgive those who “hurt” us, forgive ourselves, and choose a life of joy, by doing, having and participating in things that bring us joy and by spending time with positive and happy people.
    Let go of judgements and criticism and as we do these things suggested, we are, in fact, doing the greatest work there is, to work on ourselves, to heal ourselves, and as we do, we will see the world in a new light, like the sun breaking into the morning.
    Then together we can create a new world of peace, love and community.

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  22. I joined the Mystery School several years ago and yes, I was at a very low point in my life. I had many questions about who I was, what my purpose was etc. etc. I also had been drinking quite a lot and was incredibly unhappy. I had the Life Activation and I was instantly filled with a sense of peace and calm and gave up alcohol. I have taken many empowering classes, and yes, like any other classes one may take, it does cost a lot. I was aware of the encouragement to take more and more classes, but this is because they are special and so wonderful, and yes it is difficult not to want to take them, because of the energy and the experience, as well as the teachings. Yes, my bank balance was affected, and yes, maybe I didn’t practice all I learned about creating wealth. I now know that surrender of self to the divine purpose, raising my vibrations by healing myself, attracts abundance.
    Yes, I noticed the leaders still had a lot of ego, and whilst this disturbed me, I reminded myself that they are still human, aspiring to be more like our maker. Judgement further separates us from God.
    As I prize myself to be a particularly strong person, and a pretty fearless person, even before I joined the school, I am able to discern what classes I choose to take and how involved I choose to be. I have never been a sheep, question everything, have some differing views and opinions to the MMS, but this does not affect the underlying spirit of who I truly am.. When it comes to politics and drama, I don’t involve myself. I have met Gudni and received teachings from him and I see him as an eternal child, which is what I guess we should all aspire to in this life – to be like a child and have fun. After all, those of you who are Christians, may recall Jesus’ famous saying: “Unless you become like little children, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven” (not exact words, apologies).
    Whilst I am still with the MMS, I have moved beyond and found other profound healing modalities that I now practice. The MMS helped me to become fully empowered, know who I am and feel secure in the knowledge where I am going. I have healed so many broken parts of me and I have looked at the depth of my pain and released it.
    My journey has lead me back to look within myself, to live in my heart, to create from my heart, to share from my heart and to love from heart. And interestingly enough, instead of denying my human failings, I realize that if I resist what is in my life, it persists, and it is, in fact, about loving all those parts of yourself, and forgiving, accepting and loving the self, and integrating your divine self with your human self, that you find true joy and you realize life is but a playground in which to have fun. As you shine your own light, you become a beacon for others and a hope that we can all live a life of passionate joy through love. This brings us into deep connectedness to, and compassion for, all around us, people, animals and nature; and then we live a conscious life of enlightenment.
    Blessings of love, light and joy to each one of you.

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  23. To Anonymous: I agree no-one was helped by you being scapegoated but you are helping people now by posting and I, for one, have really appreciated your input. You jogged my memory and helped me put things into perspective as there were times in the past when I could not understand why certain things happened but it all makes sense to me now. Gudni Gudnason and Tony Quinn’s desire to replace revered teachers is ridiculous and more a testimony to their psychopathic personality traits than any real wisdom or desire, on their part, to make this world a better place. They are adepts at glorifying themselves and making a fast buck.

    I was aghast to read how many cults there are in America and I can see how foolish it is of me to think that the Government could control them and, as you have pointed out, there are certain political parties that have cult-like traits. It really is a case of educating the individual.

    To Sally: Yes, I agree. When they ask you to shut your eyes, relax and listen and also NOT TO THINK about anything while under their influence it should alert people to the possibility of mind control being the outcome. I remember being told that 20,000 Euro, the amount to pay for a Tony Quinn EDUCO seminar, was ONLY the price of a car. A lot of people were taken in by this purely because of the hypnotic technique they used to convince them and then went on to do even more expensive seminars that put them into serious debt. There are a few who give testimonials as to how great it was, however, they all come out with the same phrases and it is so obvious they are repeating what Quinn wants them to believe, just like you read in posts from Gudnason followers.

    The latest TQ seminar is called ‘The Thinker’. How is that for a big turnaround?

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  24. Anonymous 99, on October 12, 2012 at 10:33 am said:

    Is there a member of the MMS out there who would like to give an insight into how they got involved and what they were looking for in the MMS which attracted them. At some point on the line there needs to be a match between the ‘recruitment’ of the MMS and the desires of the ‘student’. These may well diverge subsequently and that is good to know also but what on earth is the attraction?

    Yes I am an ex member & can explain how the attraction works- I don’t have time now but will post in a few days

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  25. “Gudni deliberately created the scene as he knows that a violent act can bring about a state of relief in the group when they are not chosen as the scapegoat. He gives them a false sense of superiority and has set the stage for deepening their susceptibility to his indoctrination. It is also the case that the shock of being targeted causes a state of numbness and the ‘scapegoat’ is rarely able to stand up to them. He switches off their mind and heart. To use the Archangel Michael the way he does is sick. He sounds like a right head-case. Any belief you may have had in the Archangel Michael was damaged just as my childhood memories of Jesus were interfered with. I can understand you coming to the conclusion that their beliefs and behaviour are the opposite of Christianity.”

    Thank you angie for understanding so well. You know, I’ve thought it through so much, I know that I actually wouldn’t mind being the scapegoat if I thought it helps people. But it doesn’t, does it.

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  26. Hi anon 89 … long time. It’s Sally again, i’ve written a lot about my experiences above… and I value your comment. No one, whatever we get into, terrible relationships, whether personal or cultic or financial or whatever, can really get over it unless they understand the reasons they get into it in the first place and take responsibility. Otherwise, you go on and on blaming the other when in fact there is always a combination of “me and other”. I don’t particularly feel like relating my story again, there’s enough of it above, but certainly, no ultimately, it comes down to the individual’s emotions, state of mind and circumstances, why they got involved. And ultimately, let’s say for people many, many years later when it’s no longer an crisis situation for them, you being to see it as part of your life and between you and God and nothing else. And for me, it was personal certainly why I got involved … but it is also textbook. Fact is these groups (this group) know exaxctly how to prey on universal vulnerabilities, neediness, wanting to compete and suceed is huge with this school, and I was weak there but decided to compete blindly nonetheless, and tho they know full, full well, instead of being wise teachers and helping individuals let go, they manipulate these tendencies for what they want, rather than what’s in the interest of the student, for example what we would expect from teachers and spiritual leaders, these guys do the opposite it seems, tho in the end if you’re lucky you might learn the lesson anyway, it never had to be so hard. One of their favourite things is always to say the will of god flows clockwise, well, in my case these is no doubt that sent me on the anticlockwise route. And why? I say it’s because they’re fucked up and after coming full circle NOTHING will make me change my mind about that. And they’re upfront about this : you’ll be “serving a higher purpose” so it messes with people’s minds. It’s really really wrong, I have no doubt, besides the complete weirdoness we see written here (I just read dave lanyon’s writing at the top of the thread, for example), the cult hooks people personally and they trod on the person. Sooooo, you’ll find people believing what for example dave writes, buying into it, totally, and a person can only do this by subsuming their personal take on reality, because the group is made up of individuals. If they (culties) read this they would say, but I’m serving the higher purpose, but really there’s a sellout of the soul going on and WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE YOU ONLY BELIEVE AT THE COST OF A GREAT FEELING OF PERSONAL GUILT, which is good ultimately. It’s how you know you’re been duped. I guess this is the stuff that the pros try to get to when they work to help people recover, but the group subsumes all the individuals for sure and they would all have their own story to tell were they well. But it’s the glamour too totally that attracts people and it is fascinating and I accept I was there. Been there, done that, paid my dues, no problem I know there are thousands of ex students out there and they don’t post here. Many probably are continuing in their esoteric search, wanting to be magicians, wanting all the stuff mystery school offered but didn’t deliver. For me, to have let go of it totally, really came because of the scapegoating and I really do think I’m the lucky one. I remember at the time I got involved seeing on their site “ADEPT”. And so much had gone wrong for me in my life and I decided then and there that I wanted to be an adept, and i thought, finally this is for me I WILL be an adept. Nothing was going to stop me. Eventually, I was forced for reasons of my sanity to let it go. So what? I suspect it does make me an adept at this point just a very very boring one which is just fine. So it is an interesting question and one that all ex cult members need to be able to work through and answer, take responsibility for their parts, and move on. Hell, of a lot of anger is an appropriate part of the journey and it’s great this site is available for that. I wish more people were taking advantage of it.

    Moderator, re the original eight points of mind control, it was the earliest work on mind control/ cult thinking, whatever people want to call it these days, but it really does cover the basics and it’s not that complicated. It would be great if it could be posted on the site as a general topic. The only thing that’s not covered that’s so practical for people currently is to be aware that when a person tells you to “just shut your eyes and relax and listen” that it’s A. not a good idea because it those actions will put you into a trace-like state and B. by virtue of the fact they asked you to relax/pray/meditate/dance you should in fact be on high alert because that signifies they want you to absorb their message. This is happening to people ALL the time and more and more. Rather just leave or if you can’t and still feel compelled, then ask yourself WHY? Fact is our minds and emotions ARE vulnerable and there are basic strategies all people should be aware of consuming media, advertising and yes spiritual ideas. At least have your eyes open.

    Kind regards

    Sally

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  27. The book I’m looking for is Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism by Robert Jay Lifton so thanks for the introduction to his 8 points of mind control. They explain a lot of what is happening and, consequently, what to avoid.

    Will talk to you when I get back about the book. I have a copy….

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  28. It sounds like you were really doing well prior to getting involved with MMS and while you were with them, initially, due to processing your past. It does not surprise me that Gudni does not agree with processing past experiences. He prefers to cut people off from thinking about anything. It reminds me of Tony Quinn looking for a ‘clear’ mind. The less people think in his presence the easier it is to influence them. He does not believe in standard education and would prefer to replace it with EDUCO (being educated from within which usually results in his followers regurgitating what he talks about). This takes time. Whether I agreed with or felt comfortable with what he said or did, by the end of the seminar I, and the rest of them, were walking around in a hypnotic trance of ‘love’. To keep this mind-set permanent he recommended relaxation classes (I refer to them now as hypnosis classes). He’s a total believer in Freud and Mesmer – hypnotism and mesmerism. He would demonstrate this and have all attending believing he was unique and as I said before, believing he was Jesus come back again to save the world. Touching someone on the head and having them swoon is nothing new. The people he did this to, when I attended, had been around him for many years. They were totally taken in prepared to work for practically nothing. Even with all his millions most of them have nothing to show for the years of work they did for him.

    I don’t know whether it was because of my Catholic upbringing but I too felt ‘hooked up’ to Jesus and yet the longer I stayed in the group the harder it became to differentiate between the Jesus of my childhood and Tony Quinn. It was a deliberate transference on their part to somehow have others except that he was Jesus, to replace anything Jesus did on to him. I did not accept it and I totally resent that he did this. It lessened the impact of spiritual awareness of my childhood and replaced it with Quinn’s projected ideas of how great he was. Depending on how deep it goes some still believe this as they have no idea what he did to bring it about. The process of Thought Form is a big part of what he does. I felt cursed and emptied out; the opposite effect of what his followers ‘chosen’ usually feel. I know that it happened because I refused to pay huge amounts of money to attend seminars. From what I have read on other posts about these seminars it seems they break a person down and then convince them that the next seminar will sort them out. Their thinking becomes so skewered their focus (hypnotic suggestions) is on borrowing money regardless of their financial status. The people who do not comply or question why his techniques do not work for them are scapegoated. I believe that Quinn’s group ‘perpetrated or fermented’ the violence to frighten people who questioned him or could see through what he was doing. If they do not turn back to them for help they are left to suffer his abusive techniques on their own. This is a constant reminder of how important it is to educate people about Thought Form.

    I have not read some of the authors you mention but I totally get what you are saying. The original effect, I think, is due to the lessons of religion that bring about feelings of guilt shame and are followed by a reluctance to own the ‘negative’ human side and, from an early age, it is common to project bad behaviour/thoughts to avoid punishment or being thought badly of. The lack of conscience about being deceitful and doing harm to others and thinking its ok purely to feel accepted by the priest/parent/teach or the group is taking a backward step in the evolution of the individual and society as a whole.

    Gudni deliberately created the scene as he knows that a violent act can bring about a state of relief in the group when they are not chosen as the scapegoat. He gives them a false sense of superiority and has set the stage for deepening their susceptibility to his indoctrination. It is also the case that the shock of being targeted causes a state of numbness and the ‘scapegoat’ is rarely able to stand up to them. He switches off their mind and heart. To use the Archangel Michael the way he does is sick. He sounds like a right head-case. Any belief you may have had in the Archangel Michael was damaged just as my childhood memories of Jesus were interfered with. I can understand you coming to the conclusion that their beliefs and behaviour are the opposite of Christianity.

    Gudni, like so many of the self-proclaimed spiritual leaders, seems more interested in growing his bank balance. Isn’t it strange he convinces people of a new order and yet is very much part of the financial gain brigade. The lineage he boasts about has no reality in fact. Who is behind all of this? Why do people feel the need for false gods and a false sense of security? I hope our posts warn people off Gudni Gudnason, Tony Quinn and Scientology etc. I believe their methods are dangerous and the constant use of hypnosis/trance/ritual makes people vulnerable and open to suggestions no matter what the source.

    TV advertisements are highly suggestible when the viewer is not educated about how certain states of mind make them vulnerable. I’d have thought the one you mentioned would be automatically banned as some Americans have high levels of obesity. This has become a problem in Ireland also. A recent law which comes into effect soon has banned advertising fattening foods and sweets during children’s viewing time.

    The book I’m looking for is Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism by Robert Jay Lifton so thanks for the introduction to his 8 points of mind control. They explain a lot of what is happening and, consequently, what to avoid.

    The educational role of Dialogue is essential and I hope many schools take the opportunity to ensure their children are aware of the many cults in existence and their devious methods to create fear and gain control. The Governments of this world may not be perfect but they need to pass laws to prohibit cult leaders and I believe the next step is for ex-cult members to take them to a court of law and sue them for damages.

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  29. Is there a member of the MMS out there who would like to give an insight into how they got involved and what they were looking for in the MMS which attracted them. At some point on the line there needs to be a match between the ‘recruitment’ of the MMS and the desires of the ‘student’. These may well diverge subsequently and that is good to know also but what on earth is the attraction?

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  30. Hi Angie

    I don’t think the cult really contributed to my highs of those years, it’s just concurrent. During the classes I remember being more dazed than on a seratonin high. Though you’re bound to have some nice times and meet some nice people just about everywhere, and I have no problem with the laughs I shared, just being myself, while around the cult. But just prior to getting involved I had had a kind of spiritual awakening which was very personal and had to do with my awareness of childhood stuff coming through, internal surrender, seeing a therapist briefly and opening up to religion. Prior to this I was very cut off from myself emotionally. So I was processing this stuff and reconnecting with aspects of myself while also getting into the cult, and the specific beauty, the general positive change in my mood, wasn’t from them at all, it was my own neural pathways being unblocked. I experienced this during this time despite all the horror of the cult and after leaving I never got depressed or down or “negative” in any way though I did get angry and emotional, which is good. Some people might think speaking out here is negative but it’s not it’s forthright and healing and about processing. Gudni btw told us “not to process” there’s no time, which is creepy. But here I am processing and hell there’s lots of time.

    BTW this is a classic indication of people vulnerable to entering strange groups ie when you’re going through inner transformation and your deepest relationships are in flux.

    The scapegoating stuff was unique to me, and maybe a few others, so I don’t expect it to resonate with most people. But the principal is universal. When it first happened to me I had the idea that I had to clear this stuff “on behalf of all” and that I was hooked up to the Christ energy, maybe in some kind of pyramid, maybe because the saviour couldn’t be everywhere and have all life experience. I mean, how is Christ going to clear lust from the planet, for example, the guy just doesn’t relate. This is what I thought. That’s why “Archangel Michael’s” soul was pushed through me, symbolising all people, and service to the planet. And I was the scapegoat in my family so I ended up reexperiencing things, as we do in life, irrespective. As you know the school is a hodgepodge extrordinare, but Christ is a big part of it, at least it was that way for me. Gudni has a ritual book, with christian rituals, jewish rituals, hare krishnas, the Green Man, you name it.

    And please don’t think I’m pushing ACIM in any way, just highlighting that is worked for me to deprogramme from MMS indoctrination because it seemed to directly refute so many points, from the atonement and sacrifice to lots of the other ‘hooks’ they had me on. It is a very spiritual approach, which I needed for myself, but my next step should probably be to take a wholly secular approach, if only because I do love Christianity so lol.

    Re scapegoating (sacrifice) I’ve worked out there are three scenarios:
    A. You don’t scapegoat, ie it was wrong to kill Jesus and we have to learn a better way to deal with conflict.
    B. It was wrong to scapegoat Jesus but after all the gospel says Jesus came to die for us, to save us and God said he must do it and after all is giving him the kindom of heaven, so it’s also OK, a neccesary evil so to speak. (girard however argues that actually He came to reveal the working of mechanism to us so version A and only the son of god could do this because of His perfection). But Jesus said he came to fulfil the law and gave us the eucharist and the more traditional line must be that the gospel shows us quite simply what we can expect if we’re true to God.
    C. Unconscious scapegoating where a group pounces spontaneously on a victim unaware the very next day why/that everything is rosy again. Ancient priests observed this occuring naturally and instead of speaking to people about it and developing alternative ways to deal with violence (!!!) they began carrying it out ritually in order to preempt violence. (Perhaps they had perpetrated or formented the violence to begin with?) It is presupposed in this scenario that without a victim, there will be bloodfeud and chaos. This was my experience with the cult, the other cult members were not made aware of their participation, just told, cultishly, that I was bad so they could feel good.

    In the second instance, in many tribes for example, the king was made the scapegoat, the ‘year king’, and this was regarded as quite honorable because the people were aware of what they were doing (this is deemed “the sacred” of all things). It’s like the atonement for the jews where the people have to consciously confess their sins over the goat in a “sacred” ritual. In the third instance, hideously, sometimes captives from neighbouring tribes were brought into the community and given a wife and made to live among the people before being ritually sacrificed by the priests. This satisfies the criterion that the vic be identifiable with the group so people see themselves in the individual and can project their shit effectively on to him/her, but also a bit different, deformed or foreign in some way, so people are happy to be rid of the affliction. On the appointed day, the priests would whip the people up into a frenzy and then set them upon the victim and they would project all their ills on the guy, tribal disputes, neighbourly disputes and family disputes, and then kill or expulse the victim. This is pretty much what happened to me. So even if you can argue that conscious scapegoating is unavoidable, mms did it the other, older way. What Gudni told people I will never know because no one has ever spoken to me since, but knowing him he said I was a demon.

    There’s lots of debate around this even if people don’t know exactly what’s going on, they know something is going on: ie most jewish thought wants a rebuilding of temple ie the sacrifice reinsitutued and christian sects all have their opinions. Their priests evidently believe people need this to survive. I say they need to have a little more faith and take a hard look at themselves. Dunno. Gudni definitely stated in a class that sacrifice is the way to go. The muslims stone the devil. The jains have banned sacrifice while hindus sprinkle buffalo blood on the wheels of their buses at Ganesh. There’s a photo of the Dalai Lami online knifing bread in a very sacrifical manner, and the shinto believe that an angry sacrifice IS a terrible demon, which part of me can certainly relate to hehehe! Maybe it’s a grey area … tho we know Jesus saved the adultereress.

    The school talks a lot about archtypes which to me is like mythology, identifying with what’s totally unconscious (and old and irrelevent) in humanity and bringing it up and acting it out because, seemingly, it’s fun and interesting. Girard in his work is utterly convinced of this (that people fascinated by mythology are tapping into the old, preChristian, unconscious streams, type C, which are VIOLENT… and perhaps to these MMS people, they have become “demonic”) and he holds the scapegoat mechanism as central to these ideas, discussing the “founding murder” as the founding of humanity, and even “thought” as sacrificial as in the word decide from the Greek decidir, to slice through. He sees his academic colleagues in the humanities as focused on and marvelling at Greek thought but embarrassed by and ridiculing towards Christian thought as part of people’s desire to go back to the unconscious scapegoating ways because they can’t deal with themselves. Myths are totally unconscious, he says, where the murder isn’t even mentioned because people don’t know what they’ve done wrong. There’s just chaos, then a stranger/cripple/someone a little different, then peace and singing to a god (the victim deified in what he calls a double transference, first they take on all society’s ills, then they die or are expulsed, then peace comes because effective scapegoating certainly brings a temporary peace to a group, so then the vic is deified.) He says scholars haven’t interpreted myths in a sacrificial context because they can’t see and don’t want to. To no avail… Everyone can see how the jew was blamed for poisoning the well and causing the plague in the middle ages. It’s a great example of the coming into consciousness of scapegoating for us all to see and know … and be appalled.

    Conversely, take oedipus, a child on whom freud projected some pretty sick things and made the child guilty (from his own sick mind) when oedipus was really a scapegoat. They said he wanted to kill his father and sleep with his mother (projected society’s ills on to him) and then he went away (ie he was killed or expulsed). So it all depends on your viewpoint, what you’re willing and able to see. Nietzsche is similarly on to the issue, he discovered it despite himself, but remained determined to push the genie back in the bottle. He even goes so far as to say the judeochristian propensity to be on the side of the victim stemmed from a miserable resentment. Because Nietzsche stumbled on the sacrificial mechanism, in his defence of myth he was obliged to defend sacrifice, concurrent with his own famous demise. Girard writes that the more Chrisianity besieges our world in the sense it beseiged Nietsche, “the more difficult it becomes to escape it by means of innocuous painkillers and tranquiliers such as the humanistic ‘compromises’ of our positivist predecessors”. He notes that paradoxically the unrelenting advance of christianity in the world goes hand in hard with it’s apparent demise.

    All I can say is I’m glad I have my mind back after the cult mishmash “don’t use your mind” nonsense and subsequent expulsion ritual. Like I said, mms is very mythological … and well you just can’t have it both ways. Ask Nietzsche.

    THEN, if you don’t mind, after the ritual I was told that the sacrifice doesn’t work anymore (SURPRISE!!! 2000 years of Christianity!) and so (drumroll) we are going to have to fight! The demons. Using the scopion energy. They said they’d call me when they want me which was a huge mind-game for a few years. I thought they might want me back. Eventually I realised they were insane.

    I haven’t managed to find much material online about groups doing this because of course they are very secretive, but i did find a reference from someone studying with ‘the golden dawn’ who was trained to do a scapegoat ritual on a frog. POOR FROG. This is where pagan groups are also treading a fine line, where some of the prechristian celtic myth in fact hails the victim as king, and other parts do not. (and again, maybe we have to stop this business althogether!?)

    Gudni also just loves the hermetica, which they hold up as a particularly marvellous work, which is nonsense, it’s just remnants of a whole lot of old text out of context and age, a lot of it proper nonsense, reflecting hodgepodge ideas from across the ages and cultures, interesting to dip into in an academic or cultural sense or to wonder at the virtuous Hypatia if you loved Rachel Weitz in the film … (or for me, to try to work to pick out what is mythological or unconscious in it and what is actually good). And then there’s the kaballah of course, which they’re huge on and is a big revenue stream for them. All those sephiratic associations and “training for ceremonial magic” just irritated me but unfortunately I persisted until they messed me up a bit. This touches on the KIND of meditation a group advocates, which is so central to thought control but is a whole nother discussion!!!! Needless to say the way I meditate now is nothing like what I was trying to do to my poor mind vis the cult’s instructions!

    All the people in the school evidently think Gudni is Sanat Kumara, who is an Indian god who has been picked up on by the new age movement to be the lord of the world. He also says he is the lineage holder of king soloman hence all the magic. Where the bible says one greater than soloman is coming, well, that’s gudni.

    Look I only met him a couple of times but in retrospect he was basically a bit of an idiot, ordering people around and petulantly refusing to speak until he got a 2 litre bottle of coke and lots of ice. I remember him asking where sun city is and saying (bragging) he got a brochure from them looking for investors or something along those lines, and I laughed and said well that’s where idiots go to flash their money around. He also mentioned that he has money invested on Bulgaria’s stock exchange, high risk/high return. Typical small man ego stuff that sticks out like a sore thumb but I chose to ignore it at the time.

    I agree that no one should get involved with any type of new fangled group whatsoever. But also that people should be trained to pick this stuff up because even marketers are so good at it now. There was a kfc ad in america that freaked me out. There was sepia tone and a droning kind of music and a girl stressed out on a train being bumped and dropping her papers and it was all a bit eerie and yes hypnotic. Next thing the lights and music go up and she’s biting into a kfc and all is well. I was aghast at the play on emotional eating and unsettled at how strongly it affected me in the first 15 seconds. Also, in america my friends who go to some Blue Box church right in the middle of the suburban town i grew up in are voting for romney because they believe there’s a UN/democrat conspiricy to wipe out the little fish (israel) and the big fish (america). They say all voting arguments to the contrary have to be ignored in this time of peril and are posting weird stuff on facebook. So it’s everywhere. The street pole ads for scientology and other guru types in South Africa are all over the place and it just makes me shudder. Ireland has a strong identity and like most of europe can kick scientology out. But SA doesn’t and is ripe for all this stuff and I’m afraid it’s going to get ugly.

    That said, while the tactics are the same, certainly some cults are worse than others, and even the experts talks of benign cults tho I’m not so sure. Groups that abuse people sexually and assault them physically and make them commit suicide are always going to be regarded as worse than those who make them believe demons are chasing them down the street and take their money. I’ve always been of the view that the most subtle abuse, the most insidious psychologically, is the worst because people can rationalise it away to themselves and counsellors might not pick up on it and so they never get better. But of course that’s my experience. Sexual abuse is rightly held up as the most hideous abuse out there and if Quinn engaged in that, he should be jailed no question. I just read an article by him in Inde and i see people thought he was jesus. how odd!!!! it says he would touch someone on the head and they would swoon. someone could make a movie about him…

    BTW, There’s also an interesting guy, lifton, who did the first research into thought control, when americans discovered the koreans and chinese were doing it in the 1950s. His research has been superceded now but it’s still interesting to see his 8 points of mind control he developed way back then. MMS is squarely on board.

    Milieu Control – The control of information and communication.
    Mystical Manipulation – The manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated.
    Demand for Purity – The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection.
    Confession – Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group.
    Sacred Science – The group’s doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute.
    Loading the Language – The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand.
    Doctrine over person – The member’s personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.
    Dispensing of existence – The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not.

    Anyway, enough of my rambling!

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  31. It’s great that you kept all of the material of courses you did. It gives the opportunity to look at it again with fresh eyes without Gudni’s interpretation and influence and see what YOU make of it. I’m sure this information would be very useful in a court of law if anyone wanted to take this course of action. From personal interest you could do a critique that, I’m sure, many would want to read. It would take up a lot of time but very helpful as an insight to how MMS operates. I’m sure Dialogue would be interested in the strange little self-published book by Gudni.

    I am interested that you had some beautiful spiritual experiences. I think if you’ve got it in you it will show itself and I wonder how they are triggered to happen. When a ‘high’ is experienced there is a lot of activity in the brain particularly with serotonin uptake. It is proved, scientifically, that too much serotonin being used all at once causes depression for a period of time. This is never spoken about in cults or eastern religions. They want people to believe that they can live in a state of bliss. It’s not possible. From personal experience I know the impact of a prolonged trance state interferes with cognitive and possibly neural processes, loss of memory as well as depression. If you know of any book that explains this could you post the details?

    I remember someone mentioning the book A Course in Miracles but I had heard enough about ‘positive’ and ‘negative’ thought and it was so obvious to me how manipulating The Tony Quinn ‘teachers’ are, I ignored any books on the market that professed to have the answer. However, I will consider getting it from the library if they have it. I wasn’t looking for an answer to anything, just to enjoy relaxation and have some peace in my life. If there were not so many influences from society and cults to change most of us would be happy to make the most of whom we are.

    I did the psychotherapy course and, years later, spoke to a hypnotist about it and now I understood why I was in a haze most of the time. They were not necessarily in the business of educating psychotherapists as two years of study and a diploma are not sufficient to work in this area. The students were advised to open a practice even though there is no accreditation for their courses. Recruiting and gaining ‘educoists’ was/is their main goal. Most of them changed from being regular people to being quite nasty during the course of being indoctrinated by the ‘philosophy’ of Quinn who appeared, while they were under hypnosis, as some kind of ‘god’ and some believed he was Jesus and some probably still do. Similar to your own experience, it sounds like the group who ‘rejected’ you were completely under Gudni’s control at the time and this changed their behaviour towards you. I’m glad you no longer take it as a personal attack and have devised a strategy to deal with what happened to you. They say laughter is the best medicine.

    Is there anything written by Gudni referring to Jesus as, from reading your post, it seems that the negativity you received is somehow tied in with what Jesus suffered on the cross. I find it quite baffling and confusing as to why he would think it ok for ‘rejected’ students to go through this experience and, somehow, relate it to Jesus and the idea of saving the world. Where in the bible does it say that this is necessary? Who are the people who filled Jesus with negativity, who Gudni believes, could not handle it? Is this some reference to sin? Is it that they passed their negativity/sins to Jesus and he failed by suffering them? Is it explained to students that to ‘take up his cross’ and suffer the negativity/sins of Gudni and his group is necessary? Scapegoating is a cruel act and can ruin a person’s life. Are those who suffer this expected to understand it as taking up the cross and, somehow, saving the world? It looks like Gudni uses the suffering of Jesus to cover his cult forming techniques as cruel behaviour is conducive to breeding fear rather than love in life.

    Gudni talks about some kind of shift that will take place in the world. He is no different to any other cult leader I have read about. There is usually a prediction of some event or catastrophe that never happens. I totally advise people to stay away from cults and new age religions of any sort. Best to be safe than sorry. Stay true to yourself!

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  32. The real reason gudni doesn’t want his students reading a course in miracles is because it states unequivocally that the belief in magic is insanity and demonstrates perfectly lucidly why this is so and how to free your mind from its tyranny. His power is based on people buying into insane magical beliefs and this why the book was so useful in my recovery. I think many people are enchanted or in terror of the magic (gudni included obviously, its why he believes there are demons to be fought everywhere) but the best way out of cult-think is to accept this reality like the rest of the sane world. U learn to do this my friends THEN you’ll learn a thing or two about how the mind really works.

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  33. One other thing I wanted to mention was A Couse in Miracles. I would obviously never get involved with people who run their workshops but the book itself is the modern spiritual book par excellence and it was the second pillar on which I founded my recovery. Interestingly, Gudni seems to warn his students specifically off it. It was relayed to me (open gossip, of which there was a lot) that it’s a good book but there is a small piece of evil in it, where it apparently says, we don’t NEED god. With Gudni’s mastery of manipulation, that’s enough to keep most students well away. It certainly warned me off and it was a big step when I started reading it online and then ordered it. Well, I’ve read it through 3 times and dip in regularly (less so now…) and there’s no passage that says that. I think he doesn’t want people to read it because it transcends his “ancient wisdom” and renders it worthless and dumb. It makes the bible seem passe tho it does make a point of reframing controversial bibilical passage beautifully to be simple and positive. Through this book, I learned to say, “this thought means nothing” whereas the cult taught me: “Thoughts are things, you are responsible for your thought, all thought is acted on.” This thought means nothing lol what a relifed. If I had to choose between the bible and ACIM id choose the latter because it’s fresh and timely. It draws your mind again and again to oneness and to the Holy Spirit as guide but it’s also meaty and challenging and satisfying. And it doesn’t mention about f***ing demons!

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  34. Hi Angie

    … well, I think the info on the site is public and anyone could use it in a court of law. But I’m anon and I doubt mms wants to get involved with that … but you never know!!! However I have kept all the materials I was given during my time at the cult, and they include a very strange little book self-published by gudni which cost me … $100! What’s inside that book will make the judge’s eyes pop out. It would be remiss of him/her not to send him for psychiatric evaluation thereafter.

    There’s always a bit of ambiguity I’m finding because I had some beautiful personal revelations during my time in the cult. I refer to your statement above that aa michael helped you, and so it’s important to work through the spiritual side too. I actually wrote a long reply yesterday, which was very personal so I decided not to post it here, but it’s an acknowledgement that I experienced spiritual beauty too during my experience. I guess it’s like coming to terms with a bad relationship in that way. Yes the person is not for you because … well it’s clearly elucided in this site why, but at the end of the day you have to appreciate the good times too. You can’t hate your ex forever cuz you’re over it now. In a cult, where your soul is also at stake, healing involves reflecting and sifting through what works, and what’s the crazed cult aspects, then one day laughing about it all and it having no effect on you anymore. No one is all good or bad, even Gudni, even though this is what he teaches. Light, dark, fullstop. I lost faith in angel types because the girl whose soul they pushed into mine, they said, oh, J is archangel michael. So another nice mind f*** for me! So I worked with Christ and the Holy Spirit and I’m very happy with them:):):) The expusion ritual I experienced very much mirrored Christ’s passion in that I couldn’t control the negativity being directly at me by a core group led by this J, I was betrayed by Gudni and another teacher, Verla Wade, who I thought were providing a safe environment for me to get stronger but ended up pulling the rug out from under me. There was a part of me though, that wanted to help this effud up clique. Jesus also wanted to save the world, in my case it wasn’t a pure desire like His. I have discovered from my own growth that I wanted the group to be well so they would like me, a simple unconscious pathology which Gudni maniputed. In JC’s case … it’s most unlikely I can relate to His pure love and knowledge that led him to prophecy his crucifixion and see it as neccessary … and heal in just 3 days! In light of Rene Girard’s work which I’ve mentioned elsewhere, he died in this way to show us this is how the sacrifice works, he said watch, this baying crowd is innocent but after you’re read the Gospel you’ll be less innocent because you’ve seen in fine detail what’s really going on. This really bugs me. Why are these people using pre-christian rituals this way? The essence of this for me is ambiguous like like the Gospel story. It’s wrong to kill Jesus but he saved us so he is a god. Actually, that is the essence of the paradox, and Girard expounds in detail on it, using the term “mimetic desire” to define the principals that cause people to fight and the “scapegoat mechanism” as the term for what priests have always done to reconcile communities. Very few people are interested in discussing this I have found; only if you’ve been scapegoated in some context does it ring a bell. Someone fairly enlightened at Stanford allowed him to work there after he was booted unceremoniously out of Harvard. So it’s true most people remain clueless even in this day and age. Girard is clear that scapegoating is wrong. Gudni clearly thinks its right. Or at best a neccesary evil. As a Christian I think it’s wrong but Christ’s voice on another level says, follow me, it’s the only way. I was really pissed off that I wasn’t dead after the experience, that I had to stay here and come to terms with it. And, again, obviously, I wasn’t christ, who saw it coming and agreed to it. I was just a normal scapegoat, one of thousands, to was lied to and tricked. Afterwards I was told I don’t exist, that I’m invisible, that I’m never allowed to have sex again and sent away. Nothing special about me. But the horror of the earlier expulsion/sacrifice victims freaks me out. That’s the horror that led Girard to devote his career to scrutinising myth and religion to sniff it out. I’m just so grateful I could search on the internet and find his incredible books. I’m grateful I can write about it and help the process of unfolding along.

    I guess for Gudni it was just a magic trick to keep his group together because I can’t possibly believe J is AA michael and me some kind of goddess, which is what they told me. THAT would be cult indoctrination and I have to err on the side of the sane!

    I’m not sure, however, that Gudni is as bad as this quinn character and I don’t think you’ll find any ex students willing to go masked. I dont think his sexuality is distorted for example. He’s just hung up on demons and fighting them. Everything he does he does because he thinks he has to fight demons. It’s very sad.

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  35. Hi Anonymous, It’s great to get honest feedback.

    Isn’t it strange how, when people react badly to the cult meditation/hypnosis and strong arm tactics to silence them, the cults want to disown and, to all intents and purposes, forget that they exist! What happened to me had a detrimental effect on my mental and physical health. Unfortunately, due to the ignorance of the doctor I had at the time I was not given the help I needed. I was left to figure out for myself what had happened and rely on my inner resources to fight back. It sounds like you have had to do the same.

    The cult I was in (it’s now called EDUCO) had a veneer of respectability with courses in Ki-massage, psychotherapy (heavily influenced by Quinn’s ‘philosophy’), gym classes (some exercises they taught are actually banned now because of injuries), diet advice (spending huge amounts on supplements), yoga classes and relaxation/meditation and, of course, hypnosis which they never openly admitted to doing. The ‘teachers’ use every opportunity to speak about their ‘god’ and ‘saviour’ Tony Quinn, who, by the way, is now facing alleged rape and assault charges. He had some weird sexual ritual for ‘enlightenment’ going on and, so far, one ex-eduocist has had the courage to bring charges against him. His seminars cost thousands and people were/are so deluded by his ‘philosophy’(mainly comprising of hypnotic suggestions to borrow for his courses and sell them to other people) they mortgaged their homes and borrowed huge amounts from banks to attend and now many of them are in terrible debt. As if that wasn’t enough Quinn illegally got himself the position of a director in an oil company INE in Belize, using his ‘philosophy’ to influence members of the board and then he helped himself to shareholders money. He now lives the high life gambling in Vegas. The good news is the shareholders want their money back so the media are reporting about it and Dialogue is demonstrating outside their AGM meeting this week-end. The truth of his EDUCO cult will be exposed in its entirety so help me God.

    I admire your strength of mind as I know only too well what it takes to survive this type of abuse. They ‘reject’ you as if you are somehow inferior when the truth is you were not compliant to their needs. I am very glad you were ‘rejected’. You are so right about

    “the fear created is projected on to all potential demons outside the cult and your dependence on the cult grows”

    I remember when I was ‘rejected’ by these, so called, evolved people; I went through a terrible time. This is something I would never have openly admitted to anyone but I couldn’t handle it on my own and, eventually, had counselling, quite a few of them in fact till I found one who understood what I was talking about. He was qualified in the area of cults so was a great help. It was such a relief to know that what I had suspected all along about Quinn and his workers was true and typical of how a cult works.

    In some instances paranoia is justified as the last thing they want is someone telling the truth about what is really going on in these ‘educational’ schools. I stood up to them, asking questions and complaining about the behaviour of Quinn’s workers, they deliberately ‘treated’ me again to hypnosis to try and shut me up. I had days when the effects of their hypnosis triggered off a need to protect myself from the enemy (anyone who looked at me for too long) and I had images of attacking them back even though there was no real threat. Night time was the worst. Bloody battles were fought and won, by me of course. As you know, in situations like this all resources are put to good use. I called in the Archangel Michael to fight on my behalf. To some this would sound daft but it worked. The real enemy are the abusive people in the cult and the fear generated about negative energies I send right back to them. Give them a taste of their own medicine. Part of the negative energy Gudni fights is, most likely, the genuine complaints made against what he practices and preaches.

    What shocks me is how ignorant the general public are and how slow they are to react against these cults and mind controlling techniques. Family life, in many cases, is disrupted and some beyond repair. They have no idea of the stress caused by cult indoctrination. Why are the parents not doing something about it?

    Unfortunately, the cunning ways of enticing people into these cults are getting better. The masses are fed garbage while their rights are taken away. They need to WAKE UP. We need to become more active in how we deal with these groups; demonstrations would be a start. Is there anyone or any group that you can appeal too? Max. Meditation sounds dangerous and strategies are called for to counteract it. There is a company here in Ireland, Boylesports, where relaxation classes, under the guise of training for the job, are compulsory and the reaction to avoid this influence is very strong. Very qualified, probably the best in the country, are being asked to leave or leaving their jobs because they won’t succumb to taking on the ‘philosophy’ of Tony Quinn. When the workers started posting and letting us know what was happening I recommended they should sing the National Anthem to themselves with heavy drumrolls when the woman to gives the classes talks about topics like ‘success for living’ and ‘great results’ etc., This is not sufficient in the long run but at least it provides some kind of distraction away from their conditioning techniques. The woman walks around in a haze of ‘love’ and ‘positive’ thinking and completely oblivious to the resistance of the workers. I was at the seminar where she had a nervous breakdown and Quinn had her life taken over before she left.

    Scientology is on its last legs here in Ireland because of the amount of demonstrating and people speaking openly about what really goes on. Most of them wear masks to hide their identity. It would be great if this sort of set up was done by ex-MMS students.

    The great news is Dialogue is protected by law and not obliged to give, in a court of law or otherwise, any information collected on this site. Stay true to yourself!

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  36. Hi angie. Thanks again for your insight and help me look at the issue more clearly. When the teachers were verbally abusive (telling me I was psychotic and sending sending me lawyers letters and all the rest of it), the subtext was that you have to be strong in the face of abuse and that its part of your training because out there in the real world people (demons) will attack you and you will have to learn not to react. However the reality is that an attack is an attack, and to my mind the analogy of kids at a boarding school is best where kids are mistreated but teachers or nuns convinced themselves it was in the child’s best interest because they weren’t aware they were simply repeating the experience inflicted on themselves due to their own dissociation. Because the reality is that these people (the cultists) were inflicting damage and there is no subtext. The correct course of action is to get out but what ends up happening is that the fear created is projected on to all the potential demons outside the cult and your dependence on the cult grows. Its the classic stockholm syndrome we see all over the world. (The phenomenon can be seen as so basic and fundamental and universal when its stripped of its glamorous trappings … and while its not openly tolerated with schoolkids in say england and germany any more, in south africa’s schools, particularly black schools, damaged teachers are just totally messing up kids.) They, the mms cult, are also very good at labelling their enemies all the things that they in fact are (I see the republican party in america does this too) and it can be very confusing to the mind, especially, as you say, when hypnosis is involved. Since I ‘left’ the cult (was mercifully kicked out) I know they have changed their approach, which now involves free ‘Max Meditation’ as a starting point. Previously they gave talks to try to get people in so clearly you see the techniques being deliberately refined. Thanks again angie, this isn’t easy for me but boy is it enlightening!

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  37. Sally, hope you don’t mind me commenting on your post. It reminds me of relaxation classes I used to attend in Eccles Street with Aideen Cowman. I don’t know if you read the blog on Tony Quinn. I read practically all of them particularly MMS and I find most of them have a lot in common and because of this I am of the opinion that hypnosis is the main tool, in the guise of relaxation and visual meditation, is used to change how people think and is also used to control their choices in life as Quinn is more interested in getting as much as he can out of them i.e. money and free labour. If a person attending the class reacted to something they found disagreeable it was seen as ‘negative’ and sharp comments were to be expected. The lash of the tongue is a useful method of undermining a person and very effective when they are in a vulnerable state. The Tony Quinn ‘philosophy’ encourages very deep relaxation and no reaction was seen as ‘positive’. A quinnite or educoist (what they are called now) in a relaxed state is no longer able to think and very receptive to what is being said by the person giving the class. In other words, the hypnosis is working. What I find obnoxious about this is the person is lead to believe they have reached a higher state of being. The more controlled they are the better they suit the purposes of EDUCO. This state opens their mind to Quinn’s techniques of brainwashing. He has proved himself very competent at conditioning minds to accept what he wants them to believe and talks them into what doing what he requires and has trained others to do the same. These people, in turn, are seen as highly evolved. There are many people walking away from these groups as they know that what Quinn says is ridiculous. However, not all of them are capable of undoing the damage on their own.
    Many of them no longer think they are superior since he has rejected them for not reaching his standards of ‘awareness’. Unfortunately there is an element of fear about talking out about it all in public and this is a pity as we need to protect others from attending classes of ‘relaxation’ when run by people like Gudni Gudnason and Tony Quinn and the ‘teachers’ who work for them. Their goal is to make a lot of money off the backs of unsuspecting people, and this includes their workers, who are not aware of control techniques that may change their lives and in the long run, if they keep attending, will ruin their lives.
    The more we understand how they operative the better we can counteract what they do.

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  38. Hi anon:) its Sally. Thank you for your post, for publicly demonstrating the kind of treatment prospective ‘students’ can expect after they hand their money and their souls over to this cult. I remember cult members bragging about how much shit gudni had treated them like so there was this idea going that if u can’t take abuse you’re just not ritual master material, archaic ideas that hark back to the worst of 19th c childcare and equine abuse during ‘training’. Anyone can contrast the character of God in the link I posted above and your display of love, kindness … And yes weakness. There is a great flaw in the ‘work’ of this cult and in any event I have moved on:)
    ‘You have never reacted to someone else. You project meaning on to nothing. There’s nothing separate out there. And you’ve reacted to the meaning you’ve projected.’ BK

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  39. @Jim: “I do wonder of those that blog in support of the school the extent to which they might be aware of the impact of their involvement on those around them. […] Any thoughts/experiences?”

    Its true that some people have choosen to take courses with the school that plain and simple can’t afford it and shouldnt do it, and choose to make selfish decisions that impact the well being of the people around them. It becomes almost like an addiction for them or something. However, there are by far many more people who are involved where their home situation is stable…usually the latter is in situations where finances are a non-issue, or their family is okay with the school’s occultist leanings, they have a really strong foundation outside of their studies firmly grounded in reality, or the people have a healthy understanding of their own limitations.

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  40. @Sally…so is everyone who disagrees with your imbalanced reasoning, verbal vomiting and crazy rambling to be labeled a “pro-cultist” or “attacker?” Because logic would denote that using this website to vent your personal drama and air personal neurosis isnt encouraging anyone to heal its enabling people to stay stuck. And your consistent attacks are getting in the way of some decent healthy dialogue. At least Jim here is venting his concerns with some class and fairness.

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  41. I want to thank the moderator for defending the cult survivors against this attacking person on the thread. Healing from abusive cult experiences requires unconditional support, which is not always possible on an open site where pro-cultists post as well. Engaging them is not effective either as I see on the thread but again its heartening to see that the moderator will step in on our behalf and point out comments that invalidate our traumatic experiences and try to put the blame on us. Why pro-cultists feel the need to post here I don’t know. I don’t go to some of their tribe group or anywhere else to attempt to dissuade pro cultists. Tho understand many people have ambiguous feelings toward the cult, its important to remember there are people who have been deeply damaged by the cult and this is a place for them to relate their experiences in safety. If uve had a nasty time, we hear you, if u think its not all bad, we here u but why attack the wounded. How about, I’m sorry you had that experience. Period. I found a lovely link yesterday from a cult survivor writing about her experience and her healing, well worth reading if ure trying to deprogramme. She highlights that it is a process and that every time we open up about a particular that damaged us, we heal a little more. I hope it helps u as much as it did me. Sally
    http://recoveringfromspiritualabuse.wikispot.org/Recovery_From_Spiritual_Abuse

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  42. I was in the school for a couple years, and knew some of the higher level teachers very well. Sometimes, I would work/volunteer for them in their house. They had no friends outside the school, and never hung out with each other either, unless it was a MMS event. I could see many of the teachers and students developing social issues the longer they stayed in the school – cuz all they talked about was MMS, so others get bored and move on, or others talk about something not MMS, so the students cant relate (as they only know MMS). There seems to be an unconscious pattern in students and teachers to place more importance on rituals, money and classes then family, friends, and sharing a good life with the people you love. At least, that is how it looked and felt to me.

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  43. It might be an idea to refer back to the original thread above. Regardless of our understanding and beliefs about spirituality, interconnectedness, mysteries, ego’s etc, this all started with someone that was very concerned about their partner. The concerns arose out of the interaction with the MMS and the impact this was having on her life and relationship. It seemed that the person that wrote this was not involved in the MMS but their partner was deeply involved. The partner seemed to be happy in their involvement although the benefits were not apparent to the writer. I do wonder of those that blog in support of the school the extent to which they might be aware of the impact of their involvement on those around them. This impact might be non existent if their close relationships are with others that are involved or where financial, time concerns do not arise. Where whole families move into a cult situation their relationships may remain strong, where one individual from a family enters a cult situation this has a hugely worrying impact on the others outside. Any thoughts/experiences?

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  44. To Anon:
    Thanks for the video. Do they really believe, in the age of technology, and the amount of information we have about abusive groups, that they can fool people with this type of simplistic marketing? I very much doubt he lives there as he looked very unfamiliar and out of place in these surroundings. His ‘stage’ looked ridiculous. I was more interested in seeing the cat I heard miaowing in the background.

    Be at peace:
    Instead of giving me your opinions about what I have not said, why don’t you read my posts again with a mind to understanding what I have said.

    This forum is for peopIe to share their experiences. People need to be informed of the dangerous methods used like NLP and hypnosis by ‘educators’, particularly when practicing relaxation/meditation in a group setting.

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  45. @Angie:
    “There is little difference in the rhetoric used to draw people to MMS and EDUCO.”
    In the above letter the author doesn’t actually cite any actual words or marketing material that the school actually uses to draw people, only the author’s personal opinion about what she sees from the outside looking in, so wouldn’t it be safe to say that because no such “rhetoric” is actually in the letter, other than that of a third party, that your opinions might be based on simply the opinions of others who have posted here in this forum instead of hard-core evidence or first hand experience?
    This forum could be an interesting case study on how once an opinion takes hold it becomes difficult to see through any other lense.

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  46. *take on

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  47. @Anony:
    Hiding behind the straw man you’ve erected of the MMS founder rather than take the points I’ve made directly, (or using any logical fallacies at all for that matter to debunk my argument and redirect attention away from the actual debate), proves exactly my point.

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  48. Nice try you keep playing the devil’s…..

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  49. To be at peace, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6O808GSq7I so this is what you have to say . To be fair , I would have to say that I would always want people to be protected from the ” Happy chilled out guy in the video ” at one with his own ego !! And to be fair , this guy is not a patch on John Lennon .

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  50. “Feeling a little angry are we?”
    I would’nt say angry, more like have a strong opinion about fairness. Had some time to kill and I felt like assuming a “devil’s advocate” position, But nice job on the Ad Hominem attack there. All I can say in response is… If you’re choosing to attack an organisation, you might as well be fair by hearing what people who disagree with you have to say, right?

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  51. The above letter was a reminder of the outcome of people who attended seminars held by Tony Quinn and his EDUCO ‘philosophy’.

    What I found was a well laid plan created by a group of people and it’s sole purpose to convince/deceive people, using potentially dangerous methods, into believing that they have the answers that will truly change their lives otherwise they will not reach their potential. Their agenda was/is to mislead and gain control over peoples lives, particularly financially.

    There is little difference in the rhetoric used to draw people to MMS and EDUCO.

    Convincing someone that they will finally have the answers to the mysteries of life, if they continue to pay larger and larger amounts of money, is extortion in my book.

    When posts are genuine, and I believe they are, they raise many questions that need answering. ‘the tiny number of disgruntled people’ are heard from and the silent majority want to forget how easily they were taken in by false promises.

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  52. My answer to be at peace is be at peace! Feeling a little angry are we?

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  53. @Angie:
    “Knowledge about the mysteries of life pale into insignificance when the teachings have a dangerous element that, in truth, serve very few.”

    How interesting that you say “knowledge about the mysteries of life.” Do you mean to say that you have personal experience with MMS? , or are we just having a philosophical discussion about your general opinion because of other experiences you’ve had?…That’s fine if that’s what this is about, and I respect where you are at.

    If you haven’t, then what would you know, other than what you’ve gathered from the biases of the tiny number of disgrunted people who post on this blog, what MMS’s teachings really are and who they’re serving? Because it seems to me that your stance comes from limited authority.

    Being “inclined to judge” “these groups,” and creating an opinion fabricated from what can only be relegated to as talking sh–t serves “very few” as well. Something to think about when bandwagoning.

    Blessings.

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  54. The point I am making is, some of these groups are, first and foremost, a lucrative means of accumulating wealth. Most of them had no interest in Ireland before the celtic tiger so I remain unconvinced of an altruistic motive to ‘educate’ people.

    I don’t judge people on how much wealth they have and I certainly would not judge their teaching ability on whether or not they believe in prosperity and abundance. The most revered teachers, down through the ages, did not have much to say about the attainment of wealth accept in spiritual understanding and living their lives accordingly.

    When this mindset takes hold for personal gain and becomes a goal in life the opportunists take advantage and moral and ethical standards become meaningless to the detriment of many.

    I’m inclined to judge a school on how they treat their students and reading the above letter would cause concern as his family unit, financial security and mental health were put at risk. Surely the teachers who were encouraging him to come up with more and more money to pay for these courses noticed what was happening or does their greed blind them to the damage they cause? Knowledge about the mysteries of life pale into insignificance when the teachings have a dangerous element that, in truth, serve very few.

    The goal of prosperity and success were the main selling points in the Tony Quinn EDUCO group and that caused huge amounts of money being borrowed which have left many in debt. The seminars were sold in such a way that they were convinced they would have prosperity and abundance as a result in whatever area they chose.
    https://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/category/tony-quinn/

    Quinn, and his core staff, feel no guilt when they use hypnosis and other questionable dangerous practices to manipulate others to serve their own need for abundance and take no responsibility for the financial problems or mental health issues that are a result of their greed. They deserve exposure and government action to put them out of business.

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  55. People are certainly entitled to their views but I am of the opinion that public slander really crosses the line, especially when judging the facts for myself that people are being unfair.

    You agree but then spoil it all by saying because they disagree with you it is slander. You are saying those whose experience is different from you are slandering the MMS?
    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-libel-slander-and-defamation.htm
    Slander is a verbal statement that causes defamatory damages. The statement in question usually must be made to a third party, and generally must be considered to be intended to have a malicious effect.
    People come to us because they have experienced something negative. will you please now let it go!

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  56. @DI:
    “what you are not entitled to is to draw inferences which contradict other peoples experience. You are entitled to your opinion, but if you read carefully you will see you are in fact saying it was ok for me, it must have been ok for you”

    With all due respect, my personal experience directly contradicts what others have written here and their experiences, which is why I have shared them.

    I fully acknowledge that what works for me may not work for someone else, but I can only come from my own authority, from my own experience. People need to make empowered informed choices where they can discern what’s right for them. If MMS doesn’t do it for them, so be it. People are certainly entitled to their views but I am of the opinion that public slander really crosses the line, especially when judging the facts for myself that people are being unfair.

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  57. Not exactly what was implied. Inflicting bodily harm on someone versus being sold on some esoteric course about metaphysics are very clearly two distinct things.

    I was not comparing levels of abuse but the philosophical view underlying it.

    You may have exercised free choice, the point of those who have seen the effects on family members is that they felt their partners did not!

    I simply don’t agree with some of the views here. Do you mean to say that because I don’t agree that my opinion is irrelevant?

    Not in the slightest, you are entitled to your opinion, what you are not entitled to is to draw inferences which contradict other peoples experience.
    You are entitled to your opinion, but if you read carefully you will see you are in fact saying it was ok for me, it must have been ok for you, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY

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  58. @DI:
    “Please do not tell them they are responsible for what they regard as a scam.”

    Not exactly what was implied. Inflicting bodily harm on someone versus being sold on some esoteric course about metaphysics are very clearly two distinct things.

    “If something bad happens to you in Scientology you are told you bring it onto yourself.
    If you are raped it was you who brought it onto yourself.”

    I have no experience with Scientology, however, I can agree with you that obviously rape survivors need help and counseling…but I see that as being different than someone who makes a bad decision to spend money that they need for rent on mystery school classes. There are huge chunks of time when I couldn’t afford classes or programs and chose not to take them…I was treated with understanding and respect, or people were neutral about it.

    “The[y] regard as what has happened as abusive[…]That you did not find it so is really not that relevant on this site.”

    I simply don’t agree with some of the views here. Do you mean to say that because I don’t agree that my opinion is irrelevant?
    You’re 100% right, people are entitled to vocalize their opinions when they feel they’ve been wronged or for whatever reason…and it’s blessing to all of us that public forums like yours exist. I would also like to point out that its also a more fair and balanced dialogue when all views are fairly represented.

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  59. I’m sorry that you and others have had the experience you did, but I really think that people who make bad decisions should take responsibility for them…rather than transfer the blame to others…Isn’t that the very definition of scapegoating?

    That is the point they are and the regard as what has happened as abusive. Please do not tell them they are responsible for what they regard as a scam. That you did not find it so is really not that relevant on this site.
    If something bad happens to you in Scientology you are told you bring it onto yourself.
    If you are raped it was you who brought it onto yourself.
    Karmic views have that difficulty of turning the victim into the aggressor?

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  60. @DI: I’ve been a student with the school, and I’ve taken their Healer’s Academy training. I’m not representing the school, only my own views.

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  61. Actually Angie, like my above post stated, I have extensive experience with the school, and have known almost all the teachers on INT personally. But do to my own personal experiences in metaphysics prior to as well as with the school for several years, in taking what I learned and applying it–I found that for me in my personal experience what I learned expanded my understanding of metaphysics, and I saw physical tangible results in my life as a result of using the tools.

    I was already pretty well read and experienced before I came to the school, but people who have really taken the classes know that its not just about information and words. I wouldn’t exactly call that plagarism, rather I would say putting information in the appropriate context. I would say my prior understanding of metaphysics from figuring things out on my own is what legitimized it for me.

    My experience may not be the one you say you had, or that others have had, but I speak from my own experience…I don’t think its really about the money. If it were, I wouldn’t have been able to do trades. I’m sure there are more lucrative careers that people resourceful enough to make a career out of the metaphysical could be doing. Its also not about dis-empowering people by enabling their poverty mentality either. People have the right to decide what their time is worth. I would rather be mentored by someone empowered and hard working enough to create prosperity and abundance. Someone who hasn’t mastered that isn’t really qualified to teach people to become empowered.

    Its also not that you’ll just magically fix all your problems either..that takes hard work and self discipline…something that many people like to avoid.

    I’m sorry that you and others have had the experience you did, but I really think that people who make bad decisions should take responsibility for them…rather than transfer the blame to others…Isn’t that the very definition of scapegoating?

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  62. Be at Peace

    DI moderation: Perhaps you could let us know your official relationship to the School?
    FRom the IP address it looks a bit close for comfort. we will not of course reveal it, but if you are a troll better to get it off your chest
    before things go pear shaped. Awaiting your reply!

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  63. I don’t worship anyone even if they put themselves on a pedestel. I do not live the life of a victim or a martyr. I have a right to post my opinions about groups that proclaim to have something unique that costs a lot of money. They are set up to pull people in. The techniques they use are very manipulative.

    Have you read the original letter that was sent in? It has all the hallmarks of dangerous manipulation. A person does not change to such a degree unless there is something very questionable about the leadership. The use of NLP is rife in some groups and I would suspect that hypnosis was used. Some groups are inherently dangerous. Very few find out what the group’s intentions are until they have committed themselves to the core group.

    If one group does something ie set out to make a lot of money on plagarised information, is it ok if other groups do the same? My answer to that is NO and it’s a pathetic overused excuse made by many who condone such groups.

    People have a right to post in their experiences. They were coerced into delving into certain things as if their life would be improved by doing it. It is a deliberate ploy used by those who give the courses to create that need and some people end up feeling undermined and blaming themselves for their lack of ability to use this information.

    Why do you want to silence the ‘victims’? Why do you need to talk up for a group that you probably know very little about? Are their questions you need to ask yourself? Facing the truth does not make you a victim. Being a truth finder, even when isolated from those who rejected you, does not make you a victim or martyr. It is a learning experience that should be shared to deter unsuspecting future ‘victims’ from taking a path that fleeces them of what they already have financially and otherwise.

    I can be at peace with myself and still observe groups behaviour and the outcome of their experiences. I have no need to fool myself into believing the information given on these courses will change me for the better, in fact, from my experience I have every reason to question what is really going on in Ireland since the proliferation of these groups and all should be concerned and not take the easy way out. The ‘I’m ok Jack’ can blind you to what is really going on!

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  64. @Angie and Anoymous:You and the people on this forum have the right to play the victim for as long as you want, and others have the right to exercise beliefs about God and a worldview that are different than yours.

    Thank God that there are such a variety of beautiful paths for all of us to choose so we can discern what’s right for us. Honestly it’s your path…no ones forcing you to follow anything or anyone…do what you will.

    In my extensive experience as a student with MMS, when I was actively taking classes, never was I given the advice to spend money that I didn’t have, and in many cases I was able to do trades and scholarships. They HIGHLY and very vocally discourage Guru worship. If they do get that kind of unwarranted devotion, its because people are really excited about what they are learning. Yeah, they upsell classes, but like one of the above posts stated its pointless to fault them for doing what almost all other successful self-empowerment organizations do. If anything, its kind of impressive that they have this kind of following mainly through just word of mouth.

    Granted, my experience isn’t everyone’s experience, but if you’re going to slander the reputations and careers of people, you need to know that most of us ex-MMS students have had really good experiences with the school. If one does put the teachers on pedestals they are sure to have a rude awakening and discover that these are real people, and that they have egos and sh–t like anyone else. People have personality conflicts, and differing opinions with each other all the time–but that’s life.

    Honestly, the price point for the classes aren’t that different from other informational seminar courses that are out there and I found the information to be just as valuable as any Anthony Robbins course or Millionaire mind seminar I took…but just like with any of those courses, if you learn the tools, and then let them sit on the shelf, it’s solely your responsibility.

    Sorry to say it, but there’s no magical fix for all your problems, until you first fix what’s inside yourself. You can have all the tools in the world, but without the wisdom to use them, you won’t move forward in life. Remember the biblical passage on “casting pearls before swine”?

    I’ve encountered false prophets and crap out there in the metaphysical community, but this isn’t one of those things. Honestly what I’ve learned through the school are some of the most valuable things I’ve come across in a sea of useless information that didn’t work for me.

    People I’ve observed to be disgruntled about the school are people that came to the school expecting it to solve their personal problems and fix their lives, and when they came up against personal obstacles due to the lack of inner work they did and their inability to be self managed and responsible adults, they blamed their dissatisfaction on the school. It’s just the truth.

    Sorry, but no one’s a victim or martyr here, unless they are actively choosing that for themselves.

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  65. Both anonymous above and awesomeblossom have points. Some of us here on this thread are, at least on this level of our lives, a bit of a mess. YES. We, like many of the people I knew while in the school have had our heads filled with a lot of superpsychic babble rubbish, so you appleblossom coming here with and with a wave of your nonchalant hand referring to what are in fact absolutely nonsensical notions such as ” houseclearings and aura clearings and things of that nature… ” as if you were taking the dog to the beach, does not serve this thread either. To me you sound just as unbalanced as anyone else with superstitions and wacko beliefs. This is exactly the kind of BS many of these people are trying to escape from. There must be thousands of ex-mms cult members out there and yet only a handful come forward to speak of their experiences. That is terrifying for me! We see in the world the strong people whether victims of physical crimes like rape or psychological abuse, or this spiritual abuse, the ones setting an example for others are the ones talking about it. And yes it facilitates their healing, tho of course some get trapped in it a bit and make it part of their identity for a while. Rape Survivor. Cult Survivor. Maybe for too long but when they realise they have a choice, they will choose and move on. It’s not for you to say. My point is, and only the moderator knows, how many people come here to read but are too scared to pos
    t.

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  66. Awesomeblossom; I read the above posts with interest and I think they have the right to express themselves whatever way they need to right now.

    People are interested in self development which is the guise these courses usually use to market themselves. They cash in on genuine interests and the only way they ensure themselves of income is to add more and more courses with the promise of amazing results in living the life of your dreams, psychic awareness or connecting to your true nature etc., In abusive groups they set it up that you have good experiences in the beginning but then it becomes nasty as pressure is put to conform, to work for the group, to attend whatever they want them to, in other words, to remove them from the wider society, friends, family influence and become dependent on them. It doesn’t matter what group it is or how they present themselves. These people take control of your life if you let them and are not adverse to using physical abuse and frightening people as a last resort. Nobody is holding a gun to anyones head. It is far more subtle than that. Their aim is to undermine peoples natural sense of self and any sense of security they have acquired in this unpredictable world we live in. Occult practices are another way to gain control and power over individuals in a group.

    I can relate to the above because of experiences I’ve had in the Tony Quinn EDUCO group. They hold out promises of increasing awareness and one of them, I was told was psychic. During the time I attended her classes I noticed some people were actually afraid of her and I wondered why. I found out when she realised that I was not going to get a loan of 20,000 euro to go on a Tony Quinn seminar. The only way I can describe what happened is being psychically attacked. It was very frightening and debilitating. I won’t go into details here but I feel these people should be locked up. She wasn’t the only one resorting to intimidation. What these groups do is very dangerous because what drives them is the accumulation of money and power. They don’t care about the individual who is psychologically damaged or in debt as a result of their manipulation and greed.

    I’ve seen enough to know that some people have psychic abilities. However, there are pretenders who use manipulative techniques to influence the direction you take in life for their benefit.

    People who have experience of abusive groups have the responsibility to expose them and using Dialogue is one way to bring it out into the open.

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  67. So far all I’ve gotten from this train wreck of a thread, is a bunch of disgruntled imbalanced people with chips on their shoulders and axes to grind.

    I have a few experiences with the consciousness movement network circuit, and honestly while this organization definitely has its politicking, it’s histrionics, and problematic issues that every other organization does–from my multitude experiences with it and with other organizations, suffice it to say they certainly aren’t performing weird crap on people…they’re formatting esoteric teachings in a way our consumerist western mind set understands.

    While it may be normal to be irked by that if we have no prior exposure to it, or even judge it for spoiling spirituality by charging for techniques and teachings because spirituality is something WE judge as being priceless…then you have to judge every organization out there for doing the same thing. It’s what the TM Movement did under the guidance of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in the 60’s/70’s, that’s what Eric Pearl is doing, and that’s what all these new age/thought teachers do with their stuff. Its pretty much the standard format for marketing that stuff, because unfortunately being marketed to is what most of us understand being socialized in this culture.

    OMG! Marketed spirituality, marketed to the highest bidder! Get the F— out of town! Newsflash! Come on people…how many of us are going to go to India and meditate butt-naked in an ashram? Or are we more likely to go to the mall and by a book on palm reading or meditation at Barnes and Noble. Sadly the latter.

    Some of MMS stuff is really good, some of it I don’t personally care for, but who cares?? In my experience the people at MMS certainly aren’t perfect, but neither do they claim to be and neither is anyone else. There’s all kinds of snake oil out there in the world of consciousness and the paranormal. Take the good, use your personal discernment to leave the bad, be empowered enough to tell people who deserve it (even authority figures) when to shut the F— up, and leave the rest.

    Seems to me like you got your buttons pushed. And your inability to move beyond this drama, and deal with it in an empowered way (and I’m taking a shot in the dark here by guessing all other drama as well that has nothing to do with the mystery school) is probably what keeps you stuck on this and probably stuck in your life too. And suffering. And perpetuating a sad message-board-troll existence.
    No offense.

    So my question for you people is…why harp on people specifically for doing what everyone in the conscious movement does? For what PEOPLE do. Why spread the hate? Seems to me a pretty large contradiction for people who seem to see themselves as being so spiritual.

    Did you ever think to consider that maybe your own personal issues and judgements need healing? (which is probably why you took whatever happened to you so personally in the first place.)
    Also, If classes are too damn expensive for you, it doesnt seem like anyone’s holding a gun to your head…so don’t f–ing take them.

    I can also safely say that the doomsday stuff is bullshit and hearsay. Obviously the world is still here. MMS does deal with houseclearings and aura clearings and things of that nature…but how is that different from what others offer…all shamanic paths of study, all spiritual practices and all religions have practiced some form of it in one way or another? So why the witch hunt??

    This foolish hate mongering and mudslinging is probably not the answer to resolving your suffering or anyone else’s or finding your path in life.

    Regardless of what scapegoating activities, money related issues or clandestine conspiracy theory crap you experienced…don’t you think it would be better for you own benefit to let go of your anger?
    I’m by no means saying that what wrong you experienced is excusable, and it certainly is your right to hold onto your anger, but guess what–regardless of the sh-t people threw on you, by holding on to your grudges towards these people, you are giving them ironically what you say they want: your power.

    I will agree with you on one point: no one is responsible for your self love, empowerment, spiritual awakening and guidance, connection to God, or defending your personal boundaries when others cross the line–except for you, so why blame?

    Honestly, from these posts no-one can tell who’s crazier, you or the organization you are smearing.

    Word to the wise: Take your power back…because going into Blame and victim isn’t helping your cause or anyone else.

    In love and Respect,
    KH

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  68. The answers are within you, stop searching on the outside no one can answer your questions but yourself. You need to learn the art of listening to yourself again and trusting your intuition. Life is a fantastic journey and if you knew all the secrets to how it works then like a toy it would be most boring. All i can say is to stay positive, to not judge and to have a mind of your own. Watch your mind as it now controls you and not you control it!! All of lives answers are really within you, you just have to learn the art of looking on the outside which is mainly materialistic!! First start off with bringing back all your senses. Sit and listen everyday to the noise around you for 10 minutes. Focus on senses not just the five you know. The body is amazing more amazing than your IPhone, internet etc. If you spent as much time nurturing your body as you did many other things then you would grow. Outside distractions even love becomes unsatisfying because none of these this sustain and the love your really looking for is on the inside. Everything works with nature so if your working against nature then that will work against you. Its like we have lost the meaning of life in the west, happiness is NOT a thing you can find, but only feel within yourself. Stop Searching on the outside and trust me no other human being is going to give you the answers your heart longs to know. You will know the melody when it comes because even with your eyes shut you will feel it. Love everything and everyone and know that what your seeing and experiencing is REALLY just an illusion.

    Stay blessed. Asherah x
    p.s. Sorry for any spelling errors i channel and do not read over my emails x pps. for those that do not know when I channel I do not think it comes purely from the heart and i can touch type 80 wpm too!!

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  69. I did some reading about Elizabeth and Mark L. Prophet. From what I understand, they treated their inner circle terribly. People who lived in their house with them were subjected to all kinds of psychological trauma and threats of being thrown out for the smallest infractions. Even having romantic atractions that were not sanctioned by the Prophets could get person severe punishment. Some of the followers stayed with them for decades, too afraid to leave, they believed they would lose their salvation.

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  70. Well, you don’t have to be a mind-reader to know that the concept of loyality is essentially linked to guilt. When Gudni was carrying on about loyalty, I felt distinctly uncomfortable. Now I know why.

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  71. E,

    To be fair, even though I am not psychic, sometimes I get visions that eventually happen. They’re usually just scenes I recognize later. Never really in depth and detailed.

    I believe there are charlatans out there who want to take advantage of people. However I did come across four people who come up with details in my life that no one ever could have known. When they had come up with these things, I wasn’t even thinking about them and had even forgotten about these things. The times when I do come back to see each of these people, a large chunk of time (a year or more) would pass before I see them again. I’m sure they they wouldn’t remember what the last session is like and they still come up with issues that I thought I had dealt with. One of them told me that I would be an owner of three cats. I never thought about having cats but fifteen years later I decided to take in an abandoned cat found by a landlord of a friend. She was pregnant and I ended up keeping two and gave away the third. None of these people are my friends. I actually would have a harder time taking my friends seriously because they would know me more.

    A couple of psychics have told me how to open up my third eye (between the eyebrows in the chakra system) by meditation. If I ever open this up. I’ll let you know what it’s like.

    So as I took an astral travel class being taught by one of my friends at MMS (RMMS back then), I was having a good day and was having happy thoughts to the point that all I kept laughing in my head. No one else knew but it came to the point that eventually I was distracting my friend and he kept looking at me. I couldn’t tell if it’s because he’s psychic but at least he was reading my mind.

    Maybe I should have chosen another name than anonymous so that at least you all can differentiate me from the other anonymous.

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  72. Yes, please, someone discuss the psychic thing more. Are people really psychic and how can you tell if they are? Some professional psychics are just good at reading people and have no psychic ability at all. If others believe they are psychic, it is much easier to take advantage of people.

    Asherah, how could you tell if people were reading your mind or sending spirits? If they said they did this, what was the purpose? Were there tangible signs? I am asking this sincerely, not to disprove you. If you were bullied psychically what did you experience?

    I saw a lot of ego and intimidation with MMS, it wasn’t very impressive. But, I could see how innocent people could be overwhelmed by it and taken in. That, and all the “mysteriousness.”

    Thank you,
    E

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  73. P.S. Besides, Ashereh, I choose to where clothes because it would be awkward and unprofessional in some cases to go around nude. In the last three years since I lost my job and sold my house, I replaced my worn out clothes with things that were on sale so that I can look professional in interviews to be able to work. When the job hunt became difficult, I took up photography in the past year. I’m not a pro at it yet, however, I have just taken up an unpaid internship with a major company just so I can take my photography skills to the professional level. So don’t talk to me about not doing anything unless it’s for money. I am fulfilling my dreams.

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  74. Ashereh,

    Thanks for the input. Unless you have walked in my shoes, you don’t know yourself what went on in my life. I said I have experienced things with MMS, but I have also experienced things on my own prior to and after being with MMS. I worked in a negative environment for years that affected my choices and I wanted an outlet. I found my way through martial arts, meditation and reiki prior to joining MMS. There are a lot of things I can’t control like what other people do. But what I do know is I have choices. My life is better now and it is through experience I learned. That’s all. I believe I have said it already that people are creators of their own lives and I was trying to support what you were saying before. Did I mention I have a post graduate diploma and have started a new career on my own without MMS. I have left them years ago.

    I believe you need to address E regarding the psychic thing. I once asked a psychic friend what it’s like. She said I don’t want to know. Once you get it, it’s never ending. Besides, why do I want to know and what do I care? She said I really should care about how I live my life.

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  75. Hello Annonymous, yes people can read minds and send spirits to not only watch you but to take you over. I can take you to many towns in Africa / India where this is very rife. Infact you could go into mental hospitals in this Country and witness it also. Until you witness something first hand you should not chose to believe it does not exsist just because you havent experienced it. MMS is quite simply a cult, like churches, scientology etc. Governments control and manipulate people every day with TV, Radio, Mobile Phones. Everyone can be controlled. You are most probably out of control yourself. Simple test how long can you stop your mind from thoughts? How we live is no longer natural or in touch with nature. MMS like other cults is quite simply after your money, they are running a business. Like most human beings now who are controlled by money now do nothing unless it is for money. That is how sad the human race has become. Everything is on the inside. What you believe really does become your reality. If only people would start to trust themselves, there is absolutely no where in the world you have to go, no one you have to see and no one you definately have to pay.

    What you are searching for is inside you. And until you start loving yourself and know who you really are and love your fellow human being, that is when the whole of life will become the bliss you have been searching for and all the above will no longer matter to you. You are love and the creator resides within. We came with nothing we go with nothing. The spirit lives within and is eternal. When the body starts becoming tiered or as we have forgotton that we create our lives we become weary and try looking for ways out etc. The way out is inside and until you start looking inside and taking responsibility for the way the world is (as you created it), you will continue to go round and round and round.

    You claim you arent controlled, look at the clothes you wear, what you watch, what you eat. These arent natural choices that you have chosen you have been munipulated by captialist companies, tv’s, magazines etc. You no longer have a free mind it is polluted even with the air. We are like zombies lost to a controlling world full of corrupt Governments.

    Freedom resides within you and a real searcher will find it. Listen to your heart it is always guiding and telling you, but you no longer hear it?

    Bless Asherah x

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  76. Dear Anonymous:
    I don’t think anyone is capable of reading minds nor sending spirits to check up on people. That is bullshit. Some of the teachers in the MMS practice Neuro Linguistic Programming. It is a highly manipulative communication modality that be used for a multitude of things including being able to tell when people are lying. I think you were manipulated more than anything else. It’s good that you got away and have been able to start your life over.

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  77. I attended their classes years ago partly because some of my friends were involved. Even if they were psychic and can read my mind, I totally hated it. My mind, even if negative thoughts run through it, is personal my space. Once I started to realize that they were reading my mind during classes, I would still let my mind run like what they were feeding the class is BS and how I thought a few of them were so full of themselves. I would get looks from people even though I wasn’t verbally saying what was on my mind. I knew it was working. I often wondered why Gudni would know so much. Then one class while he left to allow us to get some good points together for an assignment, I saw a mini tape recorder on his desk. I wondered if he would use this as a way to find out if anyone had whispered bad things about him or how we came up with the points we did. I think it’s creepy and psychotic that they have to send spirits to check on people. Don’t they have their own lives to live that they have to care so much about what others are doing and what they think, especially as it relates to the school?

    I agree with Ashereh on a lot of points, but mostly for the fact that you can find answers within yourself and that you are your own creator. There is no reason to spend exorbitant amounts of money to be spiritual. It may sound confusing that I believe I made some connection with a higher power or guides through MMS, I also believe I made similar kinds of connection on my own through prayer in my 20’s prior to joining MMS. When I first joined, I was confused by the teachings and never really understood the purpose behind the teachings. I asked questions and found the instructors never really answered them. I asked once that if we are reincarnates and have past lives, what if we were already initiated in the past? How do we know? I am not psychic, or at least my psychic power is not open. I cannot tell you of my past lives or if any of them have been initiated into the Mystery School. If so, why do it again?

    That time when I was taking classes, I lived on my own and worked hard to keep my home. I even took a second job and a roommate for extra cash. I totally felt I was beaten down and tired and felt I was still running out of money when I decided to continue with MMS. I eventually stopped when they started charging an annual membership fee plus some course requirements (which of course were not cheap) to be in good standing with MMS as well as to advance. That’s where I drew the line. I was barely getting by already, on top of not really fulfilling my own dreams and more so filling their pockets with my hard earned money. I wasn’t even an RM and was in the minority for not being one. I did feel I wasn’t good enough and was often asked when I would take it. BTW, you would need to be approved to get in.

    I feel lucky that I managed to get by and not foreclose on my house. I sold it instead a year after I was laid off. Yes, the recession hit everyone. The day I decided to sell my house, I was very emotional. I worked so hard to have the life I did. I got a phone call from someone in the Mystery school asking me what I have been up to since I stopped coming to class. At first, I thought how wonderful. Someone I can talk to about what’s happening. Then I came to realize it was a marketing tact to see if I want to come back to the Mystery school and they are willing to assist me fulfill my dream. I was already crying over the fact I was jobless and that I am putting my house for sale.

    So it has taken me a few years to assess my own life since losing my job and what I would like to see in my future. I had quite a few sessions with different kinds of healing modalities with people such as tapping and sound healing and was even provided a test along with flower essences to help heal some issues on my own. None of these people pressured me to come back to them for more sessions. In fact they preferred I try to help resolve things myself. It was a bit of a struggle, but I find I am finding my life in a new career and so on. I can’t say I did it on my own. I had help through networking and people willing to give me constructive criticism on my resume before I started seeing results. This is all about putting your own life into your hands. I achieved a lot without the help of MMS including being a homeowner at one time, connecting with God in a whole new level, attaining a post graduate degree and now starting a new career in something else.

    I don’t want to bust my friends because I know they are good people inside. I just feel this was not for me. At first I wondered why I wasn’t getting some stuff while others were experiencing things. All in the end, I figured my intuition was telling me I have another path.

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  78. Ok so here is a question. If it is true that they send spirits to watch you and also if you have called darkness when you do call upons….how do you get them to go away?

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  79. I wish they would give me the money back I paid for classes but then was prohibited from attending! SALLY

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  80. Update on my tuition request: The head teacher has decided, that under the circumstances, I will be given back the unused portion of my tuition. This is not the usual policy of the MMS if you read the terms and conditions on the main MMS website. I am grateful that she arrived at this decision. I will post updates as they occur.

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  81. I am starting to wonder if, at the beginning, MMS was focused on very positive, good stuff but as time has gone on is breaking down into paranoia. I did some reading on Elizabeth Clare Prophet and Mark L Prophet. After a time, they were terrorizing their followers and claiming to be the only sources of “credible” messages from God. They made all kinds of threats of “excommunication” if you went against their will or went against their strange whims. I wonder what kinds of demands Gudni makes of his deep inner circle.? I wonder if there are people trapped there and fearing to leave.

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  82. yes the pyramid scheme element is very strong in the school and people who are suseptible to that kind of basic ‘amway’ stuff won’t be alerted to the other, much bigger kinds of psychological problems the school can cause. There are other people posting on this blog who say they were with the school for some time so perhaps they know about the enochian magic, whatever that is, and that they have people they say are goetican magicians. i had a little exposure to this stuff and it certainly was a bit weird, a bit like doing drugs or something. they said you should never mention this stuff in public because then the forces of darkness will come after you … but I don’t give a hoot about that, only that some people stuck in the school will be very afraid and whatever there is to those types of things, its certainly something that once you become involved with it, you will be scared to leave the school.

    Back to the financial side, I remember when I was involved my group got involved with a pyramid scheme where you get a diamond, you sign more and more people up and then you get a diamond. The one girl thought it was amazing and got everyone to sign up … and they were devestated that the diamond scheme turned out to be a scam. I have always been turned off by amway types, any company set up on that structure turns me off, so I just ignored the diamond stuff and all the excitement about money, where if i’d listened to my gut I may have started to question more things, more quickly. For people who are not turned off by pyramid scheme stuff, the school can be so dangerous because the next thing they know they’ll find themselves involved with some really weird stuff like I mentioned above.

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  83. Thanks to all who have followed my meanderings. I feel better for just writing about these experiences..

    Elizabeth

    Thanks for these actual responses because we find those that most people are unable to articulate what is going on in their head and they make comments like until you do the course you will not understand….leave $2500 at the door when leaving..
    We will be posting your comments as part of the May 5 event on their calender. E please feel free to to not only comment but if you have an insight into the events surrounding May 5 send us a doc and we will post it.

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  84. Hello Elizabeth, at least your Spirit is still alive! It gave you all the necessary information to let you know what you were learning was not learning but control. Yes you get realled in to get you hooked, but then nothing makes sense (even if you pay more money). Yes it is a pyramid business & trust me you will NEVER make it to the top because you will go mad by then at the amount of negative entities around you that you have called to your light with rituals. Yes they keep you down and make out you have found Heaven with little magical tricks. Its disgraceful that you have come to a point in your life when your Spirit want to be discovered to unfold all the mysteries of why you are living on Earth, these people take advantage of that natural human growth to seek themselves and charge you for free things which you already have within yourselves but have forgotten how to activate these energies and memories. Everything in life is an experience and all your instincts which are working greatly as they do naturally told you something just was not right with this organisation. Yes because forthmostly they are a business and have no concern about peoples spiritual development and they have no love in their hearts and this is what humans ultimately crave for that Bliss. Everything you learn is out there for free if you want it. The secrets and rituals they conduct belong to every spiritual organisation. Dont let this experience put you off the path to find yourself. Anyway your spirit has been stirred now so it will not let you rest as you are on a natural human mission to ‘Know Thyself’. Trust me no one outside is going to be able to tell you the truth, the truth is within you and only you can find it. People / Books may assist you, but just remember if it dont feel right it probably isnt. Dont worry you will find Enlightment but it is a path sometimes long sometimes short, just enjoy it along the way and have fun, we learn from our mistakes and most importantly we Grow Spiritually!

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  85. Here are a few more musings:

    I thought that this was a pyramid scheme early on and I chuckled to myself. Years ago I had had some experience in Amway and I spotted this element in the MMS right away. At least with Amway you get good laundry soap! Perhaps they ought to change the name to Metaphysical Multilevel Marketing School. That would be more honest.

    The MMMS borrows or steals quite liberally from other traditions. The MMS draws heavily on the Golden Dawn mystical tradition. One of the key members in that group was a woman named Dion Fortune. I read quite a bit of her book, “The Mystical Qabbalah.” This book was on the book list from my Kabbalah class. Luckily, reading this book was instrumental in my leaving the class. Ms. Fortune freely admits that Golden Dawn draws unabashedly from the Jewish mystical/kabbalistic tradition because mysticism in the Christian tradition was discouraged so vehemently throughout the Church’s history. (I tend to agree with her on that one, my apologies to the blog’s moderators!) Another book I read about Golden Dawn states that the founders of the traditions were Freemasons and Rosicrucians. The Golden Dawn tradition is a synthesis of many things put together by middle class people in England in the late 1800-early 1900’s with a keen interest in metaphysical studies. I think this was the time period in which Theosophy really took off. Needless to say, the practice of magick is deeply emphasized, if not the key component. That was what also sent me away from the school.

    There are layers to my rejection of the school.

    The teaching felt disjointed, uncohesive. I remember trying to practice the rituals and thinking, “Why are there so many prayers for protection? What kind of energy are we messing around with that we require “protection?” That frightened me. At other times I had a hard time taking it seriously. I mean, I could not understand what any of this magickal practice had to do with creating a more satisfying life. It just never felt right or good. No matter how hard I tried to justify it, I could not find any good reasons for continuing with the program.

    Thanks to all who have followed my meanderings. I feel better for just writing about these experiences..

    Elizabeth

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  86. Here are some other reflections of my experience of the MMS. Some of this may be a repeat of the above-

    Even from the first Kabbalah class things just didn’t add up. Firstly, this class was taught by a different teacher who came in with a very different vibe than the first gal I had met. This woman was older, colder, distant and did not have the air of someone who teaches “The Mysteries.” She was imposing and intimidating and, at times, oddly dismissive of the class. She spoke to the apprentice teacher harshly at times. This seemed odd to me. This head teacher also spoke to other returning students in ways that sounded intimidating to me. There was also talk about the role of Satan in the world which left me feeling very disturbed.

    There was discussion about how she wanted more students in the class and would we ask around for people we knew who would be interested in starting. We were being asked to recruit. I understand that now but even at the time it seemed strange to me, actually it felt downright inappropriate.

    There were many inconsistencies. I thought I was paying for the whole program when I plopped down my $2500.00. But then I was told there would be study groups at 20.00 per session once a month. There were also “highly recommended” healing session, two of those. One was $150.00 and the other 100.00. Then I was told about the “retreat expenses” which were $350.00. Then there were the study guides at 10 or 20.00 per book. By the end of it, who knows what this would have cost.

    Even before I came across the DI blog, I was having serious doubts about the teacher, the teachings, and the organization. I probably would have left anyway but after finding the postings on the DI site, I was positively shaken. I wrote the apprentice teacher and told her I was quitting immediately. She called me and tried to talk me out of it. She said I had so many gifts to share with the world. Also, that the head teacher had invested so much energy in me. Blah, blah, blah. If I had not read the DI posts, I wouldn’t have been prepared for that conversation. As it was I was prepared for the arm-wringing I got. And the attempted guilt trip.

    Right now I am trying to get the balance of my tuition back. Apparently, the policy is that I can only get credit for other classes and no cash back. The apprentice teacher says she told me this the first day of Kabbalah class but I don’t remember having that discussion. I do not what to have any involvement with this group again, so I am probably out this money.

    Whether or not there is such a thing as supernatural powers or enlightenment, I don’t know but what I do think is that this group has just enough truth runnning through it that it attracts people but it’s mixed up with a lot of confusing energy and plain old human greed. I have been around things like this for years, seen good and bad teachers, but it took me a while to sort it all out. I had to do a lot of soul-searching to understand, that at bottom, something just wasn’t right about these teachings, well, at least for me.

    My involvment was really quite short but I am glad I am out.

    -Elizabeth

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  87. Dear Asherah:

    My first experience with the MMS was wonderful. I took a one day workshop. During the workshop we did 5 seperate visualizations/meditations. I loved them all and at the end of the day I felt so calm and good. The teacher said our experiences in the workshop was only a “taste” of what could be experienced in other programs about Kabbalah. I was immediately hooked. It was the great experiences I had that made me want to have more. I wasn’t being very cautious about what the other teaching would be like. Why should I? I hadn’t seen anything to be cautious about.

    I agree with you that MMS seems to have a knack for snagging people who are questioning their lives. The class I was in was mostly composed of young people in their 20’s and 30’s. The workshop I had taken earlier was only myself and a young woman in her early 30’s.

    I think younger people are justr trying to find themselves. But, I also have to say that I am almost 50. I am going through an identity crisis as a result of aging. I have been seeking something too. Seekers are open and vulnerable. I don’t think that the folks of MMS are such great mind readers but are more, perhaps, master manipulators. And there seems to be a toxic brew of truth and lies all mingled together. It has taken me weeks to sort Iit all out.

    One of the earmarks of cultic environments is that the leaders want the new members to have many peak experiences early on. The brain likes peak experiences. We want more of them so we keep going to meetings, trainings, etc. I think that is one way we get hooked. SImple brain chemistry.

    That’s my two bits,
    Elizabeth

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  88. Dear CS:

    I am reading an excellent book by the Grand Archdruid of the Ancient Order of Druids in America (John Michael Greer). The book is entitled, “Mystery Teachings from the Living Earth” — http://redwheelweiser.com/detail.html?id=9781578634897

    In this book he gives a complete list of things to look for and to avoid in pursuing studies within a mystery school. Here is an excerpt from an email exchange I recently had with him:

    “First, a valid mystery school charges only what’s necessary to pay the very modest costs of teaching.

    Second, a valid mystery school is modest. It never claims to be the only or the best source of mystery teachings…

    Third, a valid mystery school is honest about costs and expectations, and about what students can expect to achieve by studying. It doesn’t lure people in with a single class or program, and then pressure them into taking more…”

    Please consult John’s book for his full criteria. It is clear and easy to understand. Hope this helps.

    -Elizabeth

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  89. I wish to ask the right questions. What am I missing? When I read the “information” it appears to me, to be all about the “money”!
    What are the right questions?

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  90. Yes could anyone enlighten us into how certain cults get you sucked in. Why do have to be initiated? Why do things have to be handed down by other members? I have always felt that these people mind control you. They seem to know what you are thinking also what level your spirituality is on? I feel they work with lower level spirits who guide them who to recruit who will be gullable. Usually people they recruit are always at a cross roads in their lives or have just had something unfortunate happen to them.

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  91. Hi Travis,

    Would you be able to say more about why you felt it was a scam and the experiences you have had that have led you to that conclusion. It is really important for people to hear the methods that have been used in order to know what to expect if trying the MMS out. Clearly they have managed to suck you in as they have with others on this blog and if people become aware of the techniques that were used on you and others it will at least let people know some of the things to look out for if they are feel a little dubious about any of the activities. I have only had minimal involvement and this only due to the attempts by my partner to get me recruited, I always remained sceptical. however some people are really hooked and knowing how they hook people could be very enlightening to others.

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  92. Hello All;

    After having read the above I have made the decision to leave the Kabbalah Program I had recently enrolled in. I too have experienced some major misgivings about the group but it was confusing because I had had some powerfully positive experiences as well and those were difficult to ignore. Please reply to me here if you have other helpful information to share.

    Elizabeth

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  93. Would you like to discuss this in the strictest of confidence?
    Please contact us at info@dialogueireland.org

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  94. Someone I love appears to be caught in the cycle of classes and foreign trips. And against their usual self have become secretive when it comes to “school related matters”. Are there any suggestions of how to communicate onces concerns without driving a wedge between us?

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  95. Yes and what we need to do is email Dialogue Irelands website to as many people you know in the school that you can. These people need to wake up. I have not witness one persons life that has changed for the better since joinging the school. It is a scam and preys on peoples inner yearning to find out about Spiritualism. They mind control you and pretend you need to go on course after course after course none of them of any benefit. Really if you done all those rituals etc. you would have no life left!! Thats how it would change. Peoples families are being destroyed by people wasting money on this nonsense and there hard earn cash is just funding those at the top. I wish people would WAKE UP. This school is scamming you. Everything you learn you can get it for free out there. There initiations are bringing you into there cult. They have absolutely no love. Saving the world why didnt Gundi save Japan then where he lives? R u all just blind? They are a complete waste of time and prey on people when they are down. Trust me you have NOT found enlightment and you have NOT found God! Only Gundi Goodness who is an excellent busnissman and mulipitatior! Thats what you found a con artist!!! Wake Up PLEASE.

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  96. Any tradition that says you need to be protected from the truth, and therefor their secrets are necessary, is a scam. Unfortunately, I have a few years experience with this school, and I do not recommend there program for anyone. There are always more secrets then answers, no matter how deep you go, and really this school does not empower students, it controls them.

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  97. A very damaging as aspect of my experience with this cult is the setup that makes you see everything as either lightness and darkness. This type of mental polarity is absolute nonsense. Things are what they are, people are what they are, the world is what it is … and there’s nothing to be afraid of:)

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  98. Oooooh Sally your so right, right right!!! I feel exactly like you about the Modern Mystery School. A bunch of thieves who are controlling you. Why is there such evil in the world? Why is every secret about how to live a secret? When is someone enlightened going to spread it in the world like God would? Why have we forgotten this shit? Why does Gudni only know it and we have to pay some stupid money for it. I thought for months I was enlightened and people were coming to me for guidance but then I realised I had been recruited to bring more people it!!! I wrote to Gudni and told him my business had gone under and could I get on a course cheap? No reply! Asked Gudni who is saving the world with his young Japanese wife why he didnt stop the Tsunami in Japan. No reply. Have you not noticed that everyone who comes to the school arrived at breaking point. They issue you cheap manuals. You do rituals you know nothing about and you are calling down darkness believe me thats why you need protection. They send spirits to watch you also and mind control you that you MUST go on next course or theres no point in living. Everybody behaves like it some big magical secret and we are special. Yeah special enough if you have thousands of pounds to pay for there courses. Yes its a cult. Really like you 2 years on I do recognise things that i did not before maybe thats because we are just evolving. Since then i have still been searching but i’ve come to the conclusion there is no other Human Being higher than yourself. What were looking for I dont believe is out there but we are all our own creators. What I dont understand is why is there more bad in the world than good? Why everyone struggles? We live we die and inbetween everyone just looks for love and happiness. What really is the purpose of this life if we really do not have any control. Like the Mystery school everyone wants power, control to make money and yes so many Charltons out there its unbelievable. So now i just breathe cos thats the only thing really that we need to exsist and its FREE unless Gundi starts charging us by the breath!!!

    Take Care, Asherah

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  99. One last thing … the reason I suffered so badly from the expulsion ritual is because they tried to destroy my identity. Everyone in the cult gets “magickal names” some crazy made up ones, some pertaining to mythology etc. But since I was to be expulsed, I didn’t exist of course, and so I was told you don’t exist and I was kicked out believing I had no right to exist. Not as Sally (they teach you your personality means nothing) and not with a lovely magickal name, the besowal of which at a certain “level” is something all the “novice magicians” look forward to. This caused me great distress and it was seemingly done just for the heck of it. In 2010 I went to see the Dalai Lama speak at Radio City Hall and he spoke very gently about existance and non-existance and said if anyone felt at all uncomfortable with the idea of non-existance to leave it, it’s no big deal. The way he handled the great dichotomy of the human mind with such compassion gave me a flash of insight and a quiet place in my mind … and I wondered how mystery school could have handled me so roughly. I had also been in touch with the office of the Dalai Lama btw because Gudni claimed to have links to him and that one of his sidekicks had been a body guard of the DL. In fact, the joint secretary of the DL informed me that they knew of no such person and had never heard of this group. I also have this mail on record.

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  100. more hogwash. I’ll tell you exactly what they teach people so hold on to your pants. I’m not saying this is all they teach becuase I’m sure the story changes. They believe that there are gates of hell in … where else, Iraq and these ritual master types actually believe there are invisible gates of evil energy everywhere and it’s their job to close them. This is all made up stuff. Some of the people say they see these things, others hear voices but a normal person would never notice a thing … it’s all VERY CRAZY. I even met a guy who said he was in special forces, whether he is or not, I really don’t care but at the time it seemed to validate this perspective. But we see evidence of this in other places, for example that Men Who Stare At Goats movie, where the poor goats walk around maimed, which was very funny for me because in fact this cult did do an expulsion ritual on me (presumably everyone was told I had turned into a demon because my “friends” wouldn’t and have never contacted me since.) This is not a very nice psychological experience, but presumably I carried away all the sins of the group away into the wilderness and they could get along with each other for a while longer thanks to my great sacrifice. This ritual is pretty much an open secret on the planet now right? If you’re confused of interested, read Rene Girard, whose excellent analysis of of the “mechanism” and its slow unfolding into human consciousness from Myth to Christ, makes for fascinating reading. OTHERWISE … they think the planet was colonised by “Kumaras” and Gudni (wait for it…) is (drum roll) SANAT KUMARA. He is the lord of the planet. I was told I am also a kumara, so I am also some kind of great one of the planet (autographs later people) They believe that the kumaras came to JAPAN and that Japanese islands on the map look like a sword. Otherwise, they’re just having fun and making money and they really (REALLY) don’t care at whose expense. They’re nuts. They definitely believe they’re saving the world and they’re part of a very special group and they use just about every mackical system under the sun, from eastern stuff to paganism and kaballah. If you believe in these systems, the effects on your psyche can be profound. If you don’t believe, well, there’s really nothing to believe anyway … But I did notice, and anyone with experience in the group will know, while they hammer into you the need to “control your thoughts” … they never use the term believe. Because they know the whole time youre soaking up their beliefs and so youre hooked. Of course I wouldn’t have understood this had I not go into a recovery process all on my own and examine the nature of mind very closely till I evenually stopped having very unusual experiences (which were all in my head). But hey, if any of them are reading this (I noticed a post by someone “high up” on a related thread), what did you expect except that I would eventually share my experience and tell all your funny “secrets”? I’m a gemini and a journalist and I am certainly not afraid any more. After the ritual experience I contacted Gareth Knight whose books are used by the school and told him what had happened, and he said he highly HIGHLY recommend I have nothing more to do with the group, which was the first of my life savers. Funny:) But he’s also hooked into all this hocus pocus because when I described some of the dreams I’d been having over the experience he got a fright and said (very nicely) he was no longer able to be of any assistance and also refused to answer my mail. I was so deep into meditation and doing the insane rituals all day long, I certainly had some very strange experiences. I was so scared when this ritual happened, I could hardly look at people for months. At age 37 for the first time and last time I cut myself with my swiss army knife a little on my ankle. I was just in so much pain (I had become estraged from my family not a month before and was just starting to process my childhood repressions when I met the cult) and the cult said I needed to move out of my house so I was living in a strange place. The reason I’m giving you this song and dance is not for you to feel sorry for me but to say that when I wrote to Verla Wade, my “kabbalah” teacher at the school, who was evidently in on the expulsion ritual, the school got back to me with a horribly worded LAWYERS LETTER saying I had threatened them and they would take me to court. I had to issue a letter of apology and at the time I was terrified. But I had threatened Verla… I wrote to Verla and told her I had cut myself. I received no reply. I then had a couple of beers and wrote back to her “I’ll kill you!!!” Not 7 minutes later (I still have the email record) I wrote again and said sorry, I won’t kill anyone. Then I got the lawyers letter, which terrified me. But not anymore. I don’t have to tell you I have no record, whisper of violence, nothing … only a string of professional and personal contacts vouching for my stable and rather pleasant character. So this is what the mystery school did. And they’ve very very good. Before being expelled, I was told, we’ll call you when we want you (some time in the indefinite future … to fight the evil energy with the scorpion!!! which was to be my “job”). Oh yes, Gudni was going to “possess” me and then I would be the one to physically save the world. If you think this is weird, well, everyone in the school believes this kind of stuff. They think dragons are real and fairies and they talk to the elementals and they will charge you to teach you how to do this too. Fortunately, these aspects never quite hooked me, I was always like yeah right about dragons, but they certainly got me on the other stuff … which may be why they’re so eclectic, if you think about. What’s your poison?:) They placed dozens of little hooks into my mind that did take (although others I noticed they tried, but they didn’t take … like having people chasing me, and it has been a real slog to work through them all. I think they teach different people different things. The one girl believes she’s achangel michael, another thinks she’s channellling mechelzadik, that kind of stuff. Well, that’s my experience with the Thrill Kill Kult! You can make your own choice, but really if you’re drawn to paganism or kaballah or whatever maybe ask yourself how its going to help you to be a better citizen, a better partner, to filful your dreams. To me it seems our truly great spiritual teachers today, they talk about us, staying present, learning not to hook into negativity, they don’t carry on about metapsysical beings and historical baggage, and the modern mystery school is really one great hook of all the spritual mumbo jumbo that the human mind has ever conceived over across cultures and time. On that level, they might have something to offer if you’re fascinated enough. Two things Gudni said to groups I was part of in retrospect are so funny. He said, you’re all crazy!!! And he said, I am going to lie to you. Anyway, this public writing process helps me not be afraid which is the main reason I’m posting. This whole thing happened in 2007 so I’m much much better and I get through most days now with hardly any fear at all. Although I have spent years writing crazed bitchy messages to Gudni on Facebook, which would certainly portray me in a bad light, I don’t think they can have me locked up:) What doesn’t kill you certainly makes you stronger!

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  101. Hello, yes in answer to your comment the a teacher from the Mystery School approached me to rent one of my Therapy Room in my business. As a perk I was offered some of the courses for free or minimum fee. To be honest for the large amounts they charge I would have been unsatisfied with what I received. As I said before you are initiated into things you know nothing about, and they do not explain it to you. You speak Ancient languages Hebrew etc. Do you really know what you are calling down?

    The reason the Creator filled your wish is because you asked for money. Money is not God made but man made. The Governments made it to control people and control materalistic items. The best things in life are free like the air you breath. You asked for money which is a negative engergy and that is what you got. You think you got money but really you invited a whole load of negative energy into your life.

    People find religion, cults, schools, gurus etc. The genuine ones ask for nothing in return, but to share experience, learn and grow.

    I wish you well on your path. You may never know good unless you experience bad. Infact i believe like you nothing is bad it is just an experience. But with the Mystery School Charltons you may find yourself going around in circles for years as you really have no idea of what energies and forces you are involved in. But if you continue to pay them your hard earned cash they may one day tell you what your really getting involved with. Or perhaps Gudni will send you a postcard from Bahamas explaining it all to you!

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  102. Asherah,If I may ask,why did you go to the school in the first place?If you believe that all the answers are inside yourself,why didn’t you heal yourself?If you truely have faith in what they teach,but more so in God your Father you won’t go around blacklisting properties of good people.I went to a course,the first thing I did was ask God if He wanted me to go,and I said if that was the case,He had to provide the money and He did,every person was given free will by God,and if you mess up your life that is your choice,not the schools fault,but that is only my opinion,Peace be and Be Peace

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  103. Just listen to your heart. Everything is within you you do NOT need to search for it on the outside. The school is for those that are lost. Nothing is explained in detail, but what they dont tell you is receiving too much light can also make you go crazy. These schools should have health warnings as they do control you – if you do not know how then you are not in touch with your spirit. No person in this world is better, higher or any more special than your own self. If you took the money you were to spend at the school and went perhaps to a monastry, silent retreat, sweat lodge etc. you would then find yourself. All the schools do is give you tools and start the awakening process if you dont know what you are doing you are messing with forces – that trust me can destroy and control you. What drew you to the school was probably their light and others will be drawn to you to. If you can change your thinking yourself in your own time you will progress in your spiritual path. Remember we are hear on earth to live a life as a human and have human experiences. In my experience everyone who joins these school or are part of them are looking for power and to control elements in their lives. You cannot control people or events that happen in your life the world keeps spinning the only thing you can change is your reaction to them. Try and control your mind and your thoughts, to master this would then give you the key to life – Yes you create your life!! So if you find yourself going to a Mystery School then yes you are lost but remember you created it!!! Trust in yourself all the answers of life are already in you the Creator made you perfect with everything you need. Now stop searching live life and all of the Universe will bow down to whatsoever you desire, love and blessing………………. Asherah x

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  104. Asherah, this is a truly powerful comment. There is a real sense of someone who feels they have been wronged by their involvement in the School from your writing. It sounds as though you got quite heavily involved and from what you say about asking for more classes than you could afford it certainly sounds like you were deeply committed to learning more. Did something specific happen that made you then change your opinion and withdraw and how was this received by the school.

    You clearly feel now that what you were dealing with was a cult but presumably you were not aware of that initially, what were the things that happened that now make you feel that way. It would be hugely beneficial for people who are considering going the way of the school to hear that type of testimony before they go down that path.

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  105. Yes it is a CULT they initiate you. I have had first hand experience. They take vunerable people and pretend their lives will get better. You do rituals to put you into the light but this also brings darkness to you like a moth to the flame. If you are not aware of spiritual practices you will become depressed and you life full of more problems than you had before. They pressurise you in taking more course and if you dont have the money it will come. They issue cheap manuals use cheap or free accommodaton. If you add up in a simple course for a day they can make 50k which is ludicruious. I have always believed that Spiritual work should be free or donations only as it segregrates people who cannot afford it. I wrote to Gundi personally telling him I had no money and could i come on the course for free. Absolutely no reply. I also asked Gundi if he is saving the world with his rituals etc. why didnt he stop the tsunami in his home town Japan? Simple because they do not have any power they use the same stuff as everyone else occult worshipers. There is only one source out there you either use it for good or abuse it. Their magic etc is nothing new you can read it in all books and obtain knowledge for free. All the teachers who enlist have no life they live for promoting the school. They have no money as they spend it on the school and quite honestly i do not see them happy they are in awe of Gundi like he is God. They do not promote love and their fees are ridiculas for what you get? What do you get? They prey on people. Martinina says you must exercise and eat organic foods why then is she so fat? Living wealthly? It is really a mugs game just remember the best things in life are free and if its all inside of you why do need this secret cult to open it for you? If it dont feel right then it aint right. My heart told me something was wrong and thats what you need to listen to yourself it is a waste of money. And Gundi lives a lavish life with his young pretty Japanese wife whilst his ex-wife runs another cult the 7 Rays School all the same shit as her ex-husband again another charlton at work. These people have lavish lifestyles dont think they live in poverty. Please dont be a mug take it from someone who went there they are robbing you and you may even go insane with some of the rituals they pass through you and they send spirits to watch you!!! You will go mad trust me if you dont know what its about. Its a bit like black magic they know what your thinking and when your down they prey on you – like oh you need a healing, a dna awakening!!! They are messing with your spirit, trust me if you tell anyone normal they will think you are mad and thats because you are going mad. I know I’ve been there but luckily my spirit kept telling me what there doing is wrong. Trust yourself please. Need any advise contact me.

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  106. The more that I have looked at this the more I have come across people whose relationships have broken down as a result of the involvement of one of the partners in the School. From personal experience I would recognise that the involvement in the school may not be the single factor that broke those relationships but intense involvement in the school has such dramatic effects on the individuals, time, finances and alters the view of the world to such an extent that if there are cracks in the relationship (very few have none), then these can easily become chasms due to the pressures involved. What is very disturbing is that where the partner outside of the school questions the involvement, the thinking, the practises or the impact it may have on the relationship or the family this is seen as evidence of the work of Satan/evil/darkness that the school warn you of. Very early on in your involvement they will say that you will be challenged by those you love and love you. They will explain that this is how darkness works to keep you from reaching the full potential that only the school can lead you to. When this thought process becomes true for the person involved then the result is serious for the relationship as any expressions of concern can then be dismissed as the work of the devil. They also say that humankind is in peril (it may well be) and only the school through it’s work and rituals has the answers to save us. They will tell participants of their special talents and that they can asssit them to develop them for the good of the world. This produces such an inflated sense of the individuals importance in the destiny of the world that they feel they must ignore obstacles so insignificant as their relationships, friends, finances etc. as the work is too important. The evangelicism about the school I have seen from participants is sycophantic to say the least. Weather or not this is in it’s strictest sense a cult or not is arguable, however the workings of the messages on the minds of participants mean the the effects of cultism are very real from the school.

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  107. Hi, I have a close friend who became very involved in the Mystery school over the past few years… It became by far the most important thing in her life to the extent that she neglected her marriage and now that is falling apart. Once she had to become aware of her own income, she became aware of how much the Mystery school had cost her financially and was quite shocked. I couldn’t say if it is a cult, but for some people it seems to become the main focus of their lives in a way that I don’t personally think is healthy. At present she regrets the extent of her involvement with it, but that may change… I don’t know enough to pass judgement but I would be very wary.

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  108. It’s interesting that the school have felt the need to deny that they are a cult and list their reasons why this description does not apply to them.
    From my limited experience I am aware that people are free to come and take classes and leave. However I am also aware of people being put under pressure to take more and more classes and also told how important and vital the work and teachings of the school, are in the future safety of humankind. I have known people who have spent thousands on courses to the detriment of their financial security and to deny themselves basics in order to do so. At this level I definitely feel there is an element of cultism involved. It is purile to say that people are free to leave when you are telling them that it is all hands on deck and those who leave will be left floating in a vast ocean of wilderness without the school. There are plenty of examples of psychological pressures being put on people that I am aware of and this is a fundamental element of cultish behaviour.

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  109. Gudni’s facebook profiles gives an interesting insight into the man and activities of the group:

    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1019439344

    https://www.facebook.com/modernmysteryschool

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  110. He claims to be a descendent of King David, Solomon and Jesus so i think it’s fair to say that his claims are bogus. Interestingly he poses as Dr. Gudni Gudnasson but their are no records anywhere of him ever acheiving a Phd. So now that we have established that his history and qualifications are bogus we can assume that his entire setup is bogus.

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  111. I have come across the Mystery School and have had similar concerns. It is very hard to know what really goes on there but I have had some of the initial treatments and found nothing of benefit. The DNA activations were sold as something very powerful but I cannot say that I noticed any effect. Also the ‘Empower Thyself’ to me seemed to be a mish mash of a number of religions wrapped up in a belief system that was dubious to say the least. They made a lot of claims about what is happening in the world today being based on conspiracies and satan’s work but with no evidence to back up what they were saying. They said they could teach techniques and rituals to protect yourself against all sorts of things as though every day you were walking a tightrope where satan could you get you any minute. They seemed to want to build fear and concern and then say they were the only one’s that could teach you to protect yourself. It just made me mad.

    I came across them through a friend who had a very strong belief in the school and their powers. However my friend did spend a lot of money on following the School and their teachings and doing their courses but I can’t say that I noticed any material benefit to them (they would argue different). In fact I know they were struggling financially as a result.

    It seemed to me that they wanted you to take all the courses and as you were initiated up through the levels you could sell the courses on to others. I liken it to a pyramid selling scheme. It seemed to me that a lot of ordinary people were spending a lot of money on what they were being told was important but with little evidence.

    I have no doubt they are a powerful group but to me this power only seems to be the hold over their participants rather than seeing material benefits. I never came across the head of the school Gudni Gudnasson but did a little research and some of the claims he made about himself and his lineage are fantastic if true but diffucult to verify.

    I wont be rushing along again to any more of their courses or treatments for reasons of cost and lack of evidence.

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