My Shopping Genie Vs RTE Primetime

Here RTE Primetime take a look at a new idea that has come to Ireland, one in which they “found many of the hallmarks of a classic pyramid scheme” – My Shopping Genie.

71 Responses

  1. Came across this on MLM news website. How come no one heard about it til now
    My Shopping Genie Raided in Ierland?
    by admin on June 23, 2011

    Reports coming in through My Shopping Genie Circle’s in Ireland states that the Irish Department of Consumer Affairs, raided and seized records in conjunction with My Shopping Genie and Mynet Universe from an now retired Global Distributor in Mynet universe.

    This happened last Thursday June 16th 2011, distributors are wondering what is My Shopping Genie’s position on legality in the Irish and European markets and what representation have they afforded to their estimated 5,000 distributors in Ireland who are waiting since the initial investigation by Irish television, consumer affairs and the serious crime squad of the Irish police force.

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  2. Whenever a post contains two or more weblinks it gets added to a moderation queue.

    So reporting it multiple times does not help make the comment appear any faster….

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  3. @ R Murphy

    If you are going to copy/paste text from another site, please include the original source.

    These are some articles I have found on this matter;

    http://www.businessforhome.org/2011/06/my-shopping-genie-busted-by-kalpesh-patel/

    http://www.businessforhome.org/2011/06/my-shopping-genie-busted-by-andrew-burling/

    http://togethertothetop.com/?p=2832

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  4. Andrew Burling June 16, 2011 at 2:19 am
    MY SHOPPING GENIE MELTDOWN?

    “AKA MYNET UNIVERSE”

    13 June 2011 – Complaints are coming in about selective commissions paid to Distributors. To the WatchDog, this is usually an indicator of a Ponzi-Pyramid meltdown. There are not enough new funds coming in to pay first or large distributors. There has always been debate that the licensed icons My Shopping Genie sold did not return money on shoppers as the company promoted. Editor’s Note: If the signup fee is all that is carrying My Shopping Genie…..the commission payment complaints certainly make sense.

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  5. Thanks Michael

    I was kinda on the fence a bit but you have convinced me now. If you have to give away 1000 apps to make 300 bucks you cant even cover the monthly subscription. Who knows 1000 people, with computers, who use them regularly, and thats the key point, just having the app wont send revenue checks, the app has to be used. maybe this is useful to people with a business but they wont get my greenbacks, I’d rather put my dollars on the bruins for stanley this year……and lose.

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  6. Hey Guys,

    Just to let you know I’m a Distributor of My Shopping Genie, and I have only gave the Genie out to 1 person, who is my researcher in finding out the cheapest products etc…, they have only used the genie to get price comparisons a few times each month. This has earned m 0.3-0.4cents per month on 1 person.

    This means you will need to give out 1000 Genie’s in order to make $300 per month. This means as a business, you will need to give away the Genie to a lot of people in order to make money. However the way I see it, is that the Genie is a tool to further expand your other businesses. If you already have a business, then it’s great to give the Genie away to your customers. So from the perspective of giving away the Genie it can be a good business.

    The second arm of the commission structure, in which you have to sign up Distributors, for me that method is hard because there is a saturation period where people beneath you will no longer be able to recruit new members. Ultimately it is up to your upline to help you out and give you the support you need.

    What I don’t agree with, is the some of the presenters and the presentations out there, they are trying to convince people that this system will make them a lot of money and it is easy. The truth is it’s not easy and requires a lot of work. A lot of people will fail at it, no matter how much money they throw at it.

    Now the reason why I joined MSG is that I saw the potential in giving away free apps. This allows me to build a better customer relationship with my customers, as I can help them save money with a free app, at the same time I get paid a PPC commission. This is no different to starting your own Affiliate Marketing websites, with Adsense making you money.

    I think with all MLM programs, it’s really not for everyone, people need to have an entrepreneurial mind where they can think of ways around it.

    The number 1 fear for all the Distributors out there, who haven’t done their own due diligence and back themselves, is if MSG was shut down, they will lose all their residue revenue immediately. Unless you build it as a business, and maintain a healthy relationship with your actually customers (Genie Users), then you’ll lose BIG TIME if they close down.

    Cheers

    Michael

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  7. @The End;

    Not sure if the post is pro or con the Shopping Genie, but I have extracted the juice part from the article.

    I am sure some distributor will contradict my comments;

    MLM Vs. Pyramid Schemes

    MLMs are often compared to pyramid schemes, but they are not. A pyramid scheme either sells nothing and instead depends on the contributions of new recruits to pay established members, or it sells items of little real value, depending on new recruits for the bulk of its profit. For example, Bernard Madoff was selling fraudulent investments, using new investors to pay off earlier ones; when his scheme was revealed, there was nothing of value in his “business” to give to bilked investors.

    MLMs are not pyramid schemes. A legitimate MLM will buy back unused product; it depends on sales to the consumer, not the purchases of new distributors, for the bulk of its profits; and it focuses on selling a product, not recruiting distributors, as its business model.
    ————————————————-
    The paragraph says it all, the end-customer needs a customer and MLM depends on sales. The Genie is the product a software given for free to the end-customer.
    MLM companies sell products; Avon sells cosmetics, Kleenex sells cleaning products, and so on, the end-customer has a tangible product.
    With the Genie you buy a licenses (non-tangible) to give a free product for free.

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  8. Hi, Rory here. You can contact me at rory@roryegan.com

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  9. i need to contact rory eagan does any one have his contack details

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  10. @R Murphy;

    What you to understand is that what they are selling you is an “idea and a dream”, the presentation is done “perfectly” so you walk out of the room thinking “free money” when I sign.

    In the presentation I attended they said something on the lines of “€199 is nothing, in average you get €3 per software installed, give 100 for FREE and get paid €300 a month” [this turns out to be false] but the seed is planted…..
    The presentation continues with “sign distributors and you get commission when they join and part of their income, so more income for you”; now the plant is growing, people working for you and earning you money….
    As the presentation continues, you have a full grown “tree money”; who said money didn’t grow on trees?

    This company and similar ones are resting on the fence of legal and illegal; for example, it is illegal to pay commission on recruiting, so these companies say the don’t, you are getting a “bonus” when 2 people (or pairs of people) are recruited. Because the payment is on pairs and not singles, then is not really a pyramid scheme company; or is it?

    They have taken REAL MLM compensation plans that are legal and removed the physical products (what makes the company work) and added new products (software programs) and made it “defendable”.

    Be advise that there are more companies like this one out there; all saying the same, “our compensation plans are legal”, but the more you examine the company, the more the number fail to show a credible long-term business company. Once the end-user doesn’t pay the whole thing collapses as there is no income outside of recruitment and monthly payments to pay for the compensation.

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  11. Thank you for that Carbayon

    I am not from this country and maybe that is why I dont understand

    I’ve been followed the input here and I dont understand is why become a distributor unless its to make money for someone else otherwise if giving the genie away is such a great thing, why not just tell your friend where to find it free.

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  12. @R Murphy

    The solicitor spins into a client confidentiality clause, does he doesn’t really say much.

    Ireland is a small country is now “saturated” so even though the Genie as a company is “expanding” on other countries, it is not growing in Ireland.

    What is “noticeable” about these companies is that they have almost no-employees, every single distributor is “an independent” person; thus, even though the Genie is ‘expanding’ worldwide, the “independent” distributors in Ireland have reached “saturation” and can’t sell the “product” to new distributors.

    I hope this answer your question.

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  13. Does the lawyer say that they are still operating or does he not know. If they have stopped does that mean they are doing something else

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  14. @ medboy

    On regards of your query, I have received a letter from the solicitor that MyShoppingGenie claims to be their legal representative in Ireland.

    These are extracts from the letter;

    “I am not an employee of My Shopping Genie nor I have I ever been and employee of this Company”

    then it goes on to say

    “I was retained to give legal advice by My Shopping Genie last year and I have heard nothing since my last correspondence going back many months.”

    That too me reds like a smoke screen, they hire a solicitor and then stop communications, wonder why?

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  15. @carbayon

    I agree with you entirely. It’s just that I won’t venture to post anything up here, or on any blog, unless I make an effort to keep spelling, grammar and punctuation in check. I just may know who this medboy is, solely by the style of writing, and I’m not going to apologize for making the jab. Some can’t face the truth.

    One hand will wash the other.

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  16. Lot’s of people believe what they are told, this is why this companies manage to work.
    People want to believe that can make money without work, this was true 2,000 years ago and it is true today.

    To further emphasise Carbayon’s point, the reason DI decided to cover this issue is because the techniques used by MSG are also used by groups like Scientology. The hope is to have an archive of examples where such techniques are used to help members of the public recognise such.

    Having a list of scams is pointless since any such list will always be incomplete. Highlighting the tricks used will help the public recognise such scams on their own. Learning by example as it were.

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  17. @KK

    Insulting people takes us nowhere. Lot’s of people believe what they are told, this is why this companies manage to work.
    People want to believe that can make money without work, this was true 2,000 years ago and it is true today.
    medboy believes he is right, even he admits that changes were done to comply with the law, he believes the law is wrong and he is right.

    Just as a warning, I believe the next company to be introduced in Ireland could be ‘Talk Fusion’; even though this company is *NOT* related to the one we are discussing, their compensation plan and their business model *LOOKS* very alike.

    I am sure sooner or later medboy and others like him will be saying “this one is the real one”, “this one is not like the other”, “this one will pay us without working”.

    My Shopping Genie is now “unofficially” dead in Ireland, all top people are looking for a graceful way out.

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  18. @ medboy – Just because someone takes something out of context and states it as the truth doesn’t make it true; a behaviour common of many,such as yourself, who *obviously* lack an extensive formal education and are basically illiterate…One lie to best the last lie.

    Do you smile when you lie? Do you convince yourself to believe that what you’re saying is the truth?

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  19. The justice wheels on this country move TOO slow, the investigation in Anglo (FEW BILLIONS) is taking over 2 years and is not concluded. The Mahon tribunal took over 10 years. An there are more examples.

    Fortunately, they move slow, but they actually moved. Currently the NCA (National Consumer Agency) is looking at this company and their business model.

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  20. ^ Let me translate the previous post.

    “Hey guys. We were illegal but now we are legit. Trust us and give us money.”

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  21. So how is the investigation that was startedon this scam going as a result of the interview that was aired !

    It was recently announced by the company that it made a few changes to descriptions of products that satisfied the Irish Government laws. hoping to read somethjing here and copies of pertinent correspondance on this issue ! Curious as to why the government has not shut this company down if all thats been said is true on this site! How are the donations to your site been I am sure they are tied to the controversity you report on ! you must almost have cult like followers too ! hear say is fiction facts make headlines

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  22. This post seems to be wrapping up. It’s apparently conclusive that if you have the patience to overcome naivety, and in your financial desperation – trickery, then one will naturally find themselves staying more and more away from these type of internet scams. My girlfriend and I agreed that you MUST WORK for money it doesn’t come that easy.

    These guys will give you the spiel about how some things are too good to be true, but man, this shopping genie is an exception…WRONG! It is too good to be true, it’s false, it’s a scam, don’t go near this product

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  23. [Sorry about the 2 prior posts, I can’t watch Vincent Brown and Minister Lenihan fight and type at the same time, this is what I wanted to post ….]

    How the mighty have fallen.

    I was at the meeting today (20-Jan-2010) for My Shopping Genie in Dublin, a very small room with just 30 chairs was prepared.

    The total amount of people in the meeting was about 15, I found later that at least 5 where there for other reasons and the rest, except 1, were already distributors. Yes, you read it right, 1 meeting to (try to) sign one person.

    The presentation only lasted 45 minutes, the first speaker tried his best to sell the product, but didn’t do to good of a job. He then called Hugh Paul Ward to go over the compnesation plan, which has changed radically since September. Hugh Paul Ward talked for less than 15 minutes and he covered in this short time, the very complex payment scheme, literalely he read the slides and added small comment without much explanation.

    I only found out after the meeting that Mr. Ward was avoiding one of those 5 people in the room that were not distributors, and he did not stay around to answer questions, he simply gather his belongings and left the room. The quick (very quick on my opinion) of Mr. Ward from the presentation leaves me to believe he was NOT prepared to talk to this person and defend the company he is selling.

    From the highs of August, when the room was filled with over 300 non-distributors, to the lows of today, where this meeting was done to sign a single new partner.

    Any how, they keep on trying to sell the product [the product is the license, not the software] as the next best technology item; yet it seems they can’t sell it any longer, as there is a lack of buyers.

    I wonder what happened to all those people that 6 months ago were told the product can deliver thousands of €uros a month in residual income.

    I wonder if people is going to reply to this post and defend the company saying how well they are doing, how everything they were told has come to fruition and how they have managed to break free from their financial burdens.

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  24. (sorry about the 1/2 post)
    out after the meeting that Mr. Ward was avoiding one of those 5 people in the room that were not distributors.

    The quick (very quick on my opinion) of Mr. Ward from the presentation leaves me to believe he was prepared to talk to this person and defend the company.

    From the highs of August, when the room was filled with over 300 non-distributors, to the lows of today, where this meeting was done to “try” to sign a new partner.

    Any how, they keep on selling the product as the next best technology company, yet it seems they can sell it any longer.

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  25. How the mighty have fallen.

    I was at the meeting done today for My Shopping Genie in Dublin, a very small room with just 30 chairs was prepared.

    The total amount of people in the meeting was circa 15, I found later that at least 5 (including myself) where there for other reasons and the rest, except 1, were already distributors.

    The presentation only lasted 45 minutes, Hugh Paul Ward did a 15 minutes and he covered in that short time, the new (and complex) payment scheme. I only found o

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  26. @Staveman;

    You should ask him that next time he calls…

    $10,000 a month @$3 per Genie (as they claim) means he has over 3,333 Genies out on world (I highly doubt that!!)

    Most of his income is from recruiting other people (like you), you are €50 to him.

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  27. I have been recruited to attend a meeting tomorrow in the red cow inn by a man who told me he earns 10,000 euro per month having started with the company 6 months ago. He stated that I’ll kick myself if I look back on this in a years time and haven’t joined. I was also told that this scheme will never become saturated and not to be looking at posts like this. He talks about meeting me for coffee to talk in more detail and has rang me numerous times.

    I think that this forum tells all and I honestly think that if I was on 100,000 euro per year, I wouldn’t be going out of my way to ring up a person in their early twenties, desperately to get them to become distributors. I think at that stage I’d be off on sun holidays all year round driving ferraris on beaches with 5 girls in bikinis sittin in the back and not give a flying fart!

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  28. And I don’t believe that the US has very much jurisdiction in Malaysia, if any at all:

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  29. I looked into this and I can say that this is a proper SCAM
    1. PPC: this application does not track any clicks and sends it to any server. so they are give false info on this and people are believing. I have all snap shots to prove this. there is no way other than paying out money which they are getting form joining the new members

    also why should I compare Google products and Kelko using this app

    when we search in google we can get google product comparison straight away so there is noting special this app is doing

    on fire fox we have prick blink app where it will show cheapest price

    Finally look at their email id for support it is a gmail account : mynetusupport@gmail.com

    This is more than enough to say that this is a very low profile company with no infrastructure

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  30. Looks like any type of click income goes straight to Google via Google click ads (AdSense) and the “PPC” from MSG is derived from 240,000 X 29USD per month–the *inner* layer of this trumped up scam.

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  31. I went to a MSG presentation early this evening and I was shocked by what I heard and saw.

    As an IBM tech analyst I know a thing or two about software, the internet and also business models.

    After the meeting I challenged what was said about searching through ‘all the internet’ for the best prices as claimed by the presenter . I could only see that the MSG software could be ‘hijacking’ Googles PPC in order to earn any money from PPC. The lady trying to recruit me couldn’t answer my technical question but phoned someone who could. He told me that the PPC revenue came from their own ‘partners’, some 240,000 of them. So which version is true? Does the MSG software search the whole internet and earn PPC money from sites that won’t pay them as they don’t have any agreement with MSG, or does MSG just search through the people who are advertising with them?
    What a scam! I was also told that the software distributors licence was a legal requirement and none of the £140 was going to them but to a legal company. Utter BS.

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  32. It’s difficult to contest someone who plainly fails to see at all! Some skulls just never cease to thicken.
    And there is no “new” version; only a selection of displays to fool the public. Never has been. MS .NET Framework v. 2 is still in place. Why don’t you find out for yourself, if you even know how or where to look!? Q: Are you “concerned” about losing your new car or your home to your country’s revenue agency? Or is it your social image you’re worried about? Why don’t you list *your* name, medboy? Looks like you need to find yourself a good counselor, as you certainly are NOT abreast of the laws concerning several legal issues. Keep dreaming!

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  33. These comments of course have me quite concerned but really need to have a lot more specifics other than accusations I did some digging on the skybiz accusations where the master distributors name was used in connection with a fraud that took place in this company with the owners moving money around it was quite scary untill i found out the person you mentioned is now over 50 years old and when he was about 20 he wrote a bad check he got caught and paid for it and at the time of the fraud he had no connection to it but was merely a successful distributorship at the time. kinda like a succesful avon lady being blamed for a fraud by senior excutives becuase she had a shoplifting charge when she was 14 years old . As for patents pending i learned that a new version has recently been released as its a new product old patents do not cover . Maybe just maybe this will fix any problems with Microsoft. Net frameworks. As for Mrs B comments on a diamond Distributor owing 17,000 dollars i again fail to see this as a blight on the company and distributors are not employees of MSG and should not be a reflection of the whole company. Mrs b should actually spell this mans name out so we can follow the court case in Wisconsin. Until then his hear say and should be discounted. I was also informed that the company was frustrated in dealing with anyone becuase every thing was slanted in one direction so they decided to go directly to the Irish government to have the programmed looked at to see if there is any thing that does not comply . Please up date us on the file that was opened against the company by the writers of these comments maybe copying any correspondance and posting to show the ongoing investigation that surely was open after the on camera interview ! Apparently anyone selling ebooks under the present laws in Ireland is breaking the existing law that has not kept pace with the internet revolution so if MSG and e book sellers were to put there books and programs on a CD or dvd disc they would have a product to be delivered to the customer . Of course the government is not going to lay charges i believe as that would cripple e-commerce . I looking forward to having my comments corrected starting by statements how the skybiz distributor is directly tied to the scandal that brought that company down please use names and when they were charged etc ! and Mrs B a name please ! or are you the wife of the one accused !

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  34. …and there’s probably enough supporting evidence to file a number of tort claims before things become criminal.

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  35. Check out the installation log for MSG, and you’ll notice that it’s driven by version 2 of Microsoft .NET Framework which is no longer supported by many updated operating systems and web browsers. In fact, version 1 has already been *disabled* on many and version 2 is most likely next on the list as more system updates become available…When this MSG software finally fizzles out, and I don’t imagine the original software engineer will be eager to revise any of it, all that will remain is a pyramid scheme. Ta Da!

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  36. Also interesting to note that one of the “top earners” a “Diamond Distributor” also owes $17,000 in child support here in the US.

    He has been taken to court in the state of Wisconsin on charges of running a pyramid scheme in the past as well.

    Further, taken to court in MN on charges of assult and teroristic threats.

    Great Leadership!!!

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  37. good but need some more improvement

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  38. Hi guys.

    I am the journalist that uncovered the Myshoppinggenie scam on Primetime and the Sunday Independent. I had no hidden agenda when I first went to one of their public meetings but, knowing a bit about computers, franchising and business I was concerned about the way this ‘get rich quick’ sheme was being promoted.

    I did a bit of research and the more I found out the more concerned I became. The fact of the matter is that, unfortunately, the whole scheme is a massive fraud on the public, the most vulnerable ones at that.

    For the record, after my interview with Andy Cauthen, David Freed and Bruce Bise, I received a letter from a very respectable law firm asking me and RTÉ telling us not to go ahead with the programme or they would sue us. After the programme, I heard they had moved on to second firm of solicitors, but I have heard nothing from them what so ever.

    I would like to thank all of you who have posted and written to me in support of what I did. It takes quite a lot to do an exposé on Irish television. The libel and slander laws in this country are very strict, and rightly so. They are there to protect all our reputations.

    The problem that this creates for investigative journalism is that you can write 99 correct stories that, I like to think, are some service to the viewers and readers I write for. But if you get the next one wrong you can lose your home, savings and everything you worked for by getting your facts wrong and making a mistake, however honest.

    I have to say that Primetime and RTÉ were extremely brave and courageous to go ahead with this. Having said that, we worked very hard to check every fact and there were many things that we were suspicious of but we left out because we hadn’t enough time to triple check them before we went on air, such as the’trackability’ of the searches.

    However, I am glad we did what we did and hope we have stopped innocent people paying out money that they can ill afford to lose, to a group of very shady individuals from the US, Canada and here.

    I will be doing a follow up article very soon and would be very interested in hearing your personal stories if you want to tell me them. You can email me at rory@roryegan.com

    Great posts from everyone and I wish you all luck in the future.

    Rory Egan

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  39. I am grateful for RTE. I invested in 6 licenses for fundraisers for schools, churches and healthcare. Then I incorporated, trademarked my brand, and launched campaigns. I issued many support requests asking how or why my apps were not being identified in back office. Rec’d loads of spam mail on conference calls that centered on selling downline and very little to any on app service and support. No one answered my question about why my apps installs were not being counted.

    I asked some tough questions about Mr. Byse. It does appear that RTE has basis for the felony record report.

    Then I researched the Federal Trade Commission, Attorney General and Federal Bureau of Investigation on pyramids.

    I asked MNU on several occasions to provide me with clear and concise compensation plans for pay per click, pay per sale, and pay per lead including how the revenue is collected, reported and paid out. For weeks…nothing. I understand failure to respond to compensation questions when your consumer buys your ‘license’ is ‘illegal’.
    I got out. Not before spending tens of thousands on fundraising campaigns. MNU did reimburse me my license fees (6) and monthly payments (12). The confirmation return cited, “Non Responsive” as the reason for the credits.

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  40. I think this was a fantastic report.A lot of people are desperate in this country at the moment and are very vulnerable to scams like this.
    True that €160 isnt a like savings but im sure it can be better spent than like this,and can make a huge difference to someone on the breadline.

    Scams like this is why so many people are sceptical about MLM,and there are genuine ones out there which really can make the difference in someones life

    The best way to check it out, is see if they are registered with the DSA
    If you dont see them,be wary !!

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  41. Can anyone help to get answer folowing questions
    mynet universe decided to do network/MLM marketing of myshopping genie why do not they think once company is in public/network mkt how can they be not transparent ? why they do not have their own authentic company website for all clear transparent info? where is their annual income disclosure? Even if any exect members past is controversial or not clear they can do positive PR on rebuilding life with good intent instead keeping close how can it help company’s salesforce when you enter in public/mlm marketing? why company’s business practices are not open? It does not help in MLM/network marketing in specific raises suspicision?they may have good intent but way they are practising is not of much help to company/business and salesforce . more suggestions/advise to copany pls

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  42. Just to correct in earliar post I mean no company’s own website(inspite of distance selling) and big worldwide comany leaves room for suspicicion. It will help and clear all suspicions if company have their official website and transparent clear information about product,business practices,management and their vision,intent etc Any more advise to company——–

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  43. Big worldwide company with website of their own to disseminate authentic info to prospectives or public leaves room for all kind of suspicision. Is comapny member of any trade association ??? any more info pls

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  44. Even company says patent pending on distributor site.when you check U.S patent and trademarks site it tells trademark patent was abandoned. Any more information ?Which patent company is saying is pending. On jointhegenie.com which is distributor site should be regulated by comapny states patented software application ??? what is the truth ?any more info pls

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  45. Just one response sharp and short on one comment only. Google? Why havent they taken action?
    Google do take action but dont ever do it in courts or arguing with anyone? They fix things and people. They will and it will not be a sticky plaster. Unfortunately when they have come up with their permanent solution there will be no need to exchange views BUT the horrible thing is the thieves would have a few million in the bank and the Irish Distributors can be open to 5 years in prison and a e150,000 fine and if they still dont understand the situation e10,000 a day should they not pay attention. Sounds like a pretty dodgy business risk driven by emotional meetings on a product that is under question?
    love you all but dont get carried away with MSG
    x

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  46. @John D Walsh;

    Have you see your posts over the past days? They are very interesting, on the first posts you were a TRUE believer;

    “The Prime Time programme has just been nominated by North Korean Television for a major prize in manipulating viewers. ”

    On the last post you have come down a little;

    “The company will be responding to all its critics – it simply has to or its finished! …It has to show in a transparent way – and showing all the links in the chain – how the income is generated. ”

    I can only wander what is changing you mind; would it be what you are reading here and in other posts? could it be the lack of PPC received?, could it be the lack of response from the company?

    There were claims on the days after the Prime Time interview that a solicitor’s firm and a PR firm were hired, what happen to that? Has anyone heard anything on relation to this? The company seems to be really quiet about this publicity. Even Ivor Callely, who did something morally wrong, but totally legal is in the courts defending his case. How come MyNet Universe is not on court? What is the PR firm doing?

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  47. PPC is the key to the legality of the business; MSG claims you can get a piece of the Billions spend on PPC. If they don’t get paid (this has been proved already), how can they pay distributors? Are they moving funds around from license payments?

    If a simple question; where is the money to PPC come from, if they don’t receive PPC income? can’t be answered, then there is a problem with the business model.

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  48. To ALL concern;

    I am the technical person that run the investigation on regards of the communication between MyShoppingGenie and the different search engines.

    MSG read the “search parameter” and then passes that to the search engines, at no point there is any TRACEABLE information passed to the search engines. To them, the page opened by MSG and a page opened manually are the SAME.

    Genie Gems has a good tendency of taking what s/he wants from posts and use it on his/her own website. I was looking at her site and I found extracts of my posts, all twisted to benefit him/her.

    That facts are 3 and are simple;
    1.- MSG tracks the usage of the software (this populates the BackOffice)
    2.- Search engines CAN’T trace searched done by MSG and they said publicly they don’t pay MSG
    3.- MSG is paying PPC without receiving PPC income from other companies; how can they pay this money?

    The program “almost” delivers what it promises, it promises to find the cheapest price, what it does do is save time my narrowing the search the a max. of 6 REAL search engines.

    If any one wants to read the document, I can email it, just contact me (http://www.carbayon.com/contact) and I will email you the report. -Genie Gems has never requested, I wonder why?

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  49. The company will be responding to all its critics – it simply has to or its finished! Either the product is genuine, and it does not operate a pyramid scheme, or its a fraud! Its as simple as that.

    It has to show in a transparent way – and showing all the links in the chain – how the income is generated. All of us looking at this are trying to be honest and truthful. None of us want to be made fools of and the company owes to its participants to establish the integrity of the Shopping Genie beyond all doubt.The truth will out!

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  50. @ Barry

    Care to share a little more details of your story?

    Like

  51. Anyone who claims that distributing genies without recruiting can earn money is an outright liar. I became a distributor because I was mesmerized by the Google comparison at one of the presentations, and I was assured that I would not have to recruit in order to make money. After giving away literally hundreds of genies I still haven’t earned one red cent after a number of months. At this point I realised that it was a pyramid and cancelled my membership soon after.

    I only lost about 400 bucks so I likely won’t be suing. But take it from me, this is sheer pyramid being run by lying conniving scumbags who will tell you anything to get you signed up. Download and use the program if you must, but steer clear of becoming a distributor.

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  52. You have some folks who object to ‘vulfarity’, but yet see no problem with insulting others and deceiving people? Is this what supporting scams does to people?

    Why wait for the middle of the month? Is that how long it takes to draw up the lawsuit to harass your critics? If you were honest wouldn’t you just detail how the app tracks its clicks?

    So many questions, so little (believable) answers.

    http://www.mlmhelpdesk.com/2010/09/27/breaking-mlm-news-ireland-investigative-reportors-asking-same-old-questions-about-my-shopping-genie/

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  53. Those who resort to vulfarity in this debate are doing a disservice to themselves. Abusive language is no substitute for sound arguments.

    The news is: by the middle of the month Madhairs et al’s points will be answered – it takes time to get these things right.

    Alas the jury is out until then……

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  54. Fair play to you madhair for sticking with this and sifting through all the sewage. Im not good person with computers most days, but if Ican understand what the sniffer does then I think the other fella is simply acting the maggot.

    At the meeting it is hard to raise any real questions, and you certanly dont have the time to sit and think things trough. On here is it a dfferent story, and lthe oad of shoite being peddled can be seen for what it is.

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  55. LOL! I know what your concern is MadHair – it’s VERY evident that your concern is over “recruiting”.

    Of course my concern is over recruiting. After all, it is the recruitment model that is an unsustainable pyramid scheme. The application, in and of itself, has little relevance to that. I feel like I am repeating myself in these comments.

    It’s a 40-1 ratio – which is pretty solid. But if you want to hold onto RTE being right – “that it’s aaaall about the recruiting” – about all I can say is “you can lead a horse to water”.

    This is completely missing the point as I already explained in my previous comment. It is of interest to me how you seem to think an application, with no monetary value and no means of earning money, will have a monetary effect on the recruitment scheme. It won’t, but you are desperately hoping that the folks reading this don’t realise this little factoid.

    If you want to talk “sleight of hand” let’s talk SkyBiz. I’m not going to tell you that I would have gotten involved with the company, but unfortunately I was never given the opportunity to even look at it because guys like you went all spastic about it and the Government shut it down. Point is it DID NOT run out of prospects or people.

    Care to tell people what the government said about Skybiz? I doubt you will since it would completely torpedo what you are trying to say here. When you have figures like only 13% earning back their money and only 6% making profit, similar figures to any pyramid scheme btw, then you should be able to smell the problem.

    But I do find it quite telling that you attempt to defend Skybiz over this despite the way it got its ass handed to it court. If you cannot spot why Skybiz was a pyramid scheme it may go some way toward explaining your inability to spot why MSG recruitment is also a pyramid scheme.

    He’s spending HALF of what he use to spend on his diabetic medication thanks to installing the Genie.

    For the umpteenth time, you are trying to distract from the recruitment model by using the MSG application as a façade. That you and John have repeatedly tried to do this is quite interesting.

    Gang, don’t even bother looking for “sniffer software”

    I read this comment as effectively saying the following:
    Oh God!!! Please don’t investigate the claims regarding pay per click!!!! Whatever you potential MSG distributors do, don’t investigate for yourselves!!!!

    If the Genie can transmit the search term – it’s communicating. MadHair can get as mad as he wants – but this simple fact makes the software completely unnecessary and unwarranted.

    You can see the exact string passed on to the search engines using the sniffer. In fact this very point was detailed in the forum link I gave, and it was noted that this search term does not contain any MSG identifier whatsoever.

    I’ll even demonstrate it. If you hit Google with “search term” this is the string that MSG passes to Google:
    ‘http://www.google.ie/search?&q=%22search+term%22’
    The q= extension contains no identifying information for MSG whatsoever. Firefox does the same thing when you use the Google search bar within it – do you suppose Firefox should be earning pay per click on that?

    Now why would you be so insistent against people learning this?

    If you’d like to check further, do my example on Amazon – there again you’ll see not only the search term but the unique identifier is placed inside the URL.

    I encourage people to look into this, because with the sniffer they can see that the identifier used in the referrer is actually the same identifier as the search engine that MSG took its result from.

    Had you pursued the forum link I provided you would see this process demonstrated with BestBuy. BestBuy adds an identifier to the referrer, letting the website know that the user came from the BestBuy website. In the example shown the MSG application has simply copied the same referrer that BestBuy uses. In other words, the ID you refer to with Amazon is actually for the search engine whose result MSG is displaying. And this can be checked by using a sniffer (which you don’t want people to do, I wonder why?).

    At this point I’m left wondering whether Genie Gems erred out of ignorance or out of malice. They clearly are trying to disguise the fact that the ID isn’t for MSG but for the search engine that MSG took the result from. It is hard for me to give them the benefit of the doubt on this while they simultaneously insult me and desperately try to dissuade people from examining this for themselves.

    And one final little thing, to really drive this point home. When I emailed Amazon regarding MSG they were pretty explicit:
    It is a shopping application and is not affiliated with Amazon.

    Instead of sniffer software, why don’t you try the actual product?

    I used the sniffer software to examine the MSG application…

    That I have to reiterate this almost beggars belief.

    Sorry, can’t answer this one because the two are not identical.

    Where I come from we call this sidestepping the question. This is one of the key issues though, so trying to simply fob people off with non-answer in light of the information now available isn’t going to work.

    Just checked your example with Amazon. You ROCK!

    Did you then compare the referrer with those of the search engines to verify that the id really is MSG-specific and not simply what MSG copied from those search engines?

    Of course not. That would have defeated the point of the sockpuppetry. I did find this line of yours interesting though:
    We DO need to show this in meetings to squash the haters who want to blow smoke.”

    Gee, who are ‘we’?

    He’s had his questions answered a dozen times – but just keep regurgitating the same questions over and over. (It’s rather amusing.)

    Actually the MSG crowd has been completely smashed on that thread, and it is well worth reading though (something I suspect you don’t want people to do):
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056017156
    The diversions and rhetoric weren’t working well to begin with, but when the issue regarding the lack of tracking for earning click revenue came up the MSG promoters went very very quiet for some reason. One chap noted, and anyone with the proper software can verify this, that by reverse engineering the MSG application it can be seen that the only outgoing protocol for the MSG is to add search terms to search engines (for example adding &q=%22search+term%22’ to google). From there all it does is reproduce the same links given to it from those search engines, with the original referrers intact (including the search engine IDs that Genie Gems is claiming to be associated with MSG).

    Of course, Genie Gems is hoping people won’t do the research or bother looking at that thread….

    Amway went through it…All still standing and doing fine.

    I just don’t understand how an informed person of sound mind and body would think it wise to mention Amway in a case like this. I doubt you would want people to know about the legal undertakings Amway had to accept in order to avoid being shut down. Hopefully people will spend some time on the Google machine and learn somethings you don’t want them to.

    Don’t let the small minds bother you. They just like to feel important and smarter than everyone else.

    Just had to finish with another little dig, just in case you hadn’t smeared me enough. Attack the messenger is always fun, especially when the tactic is used in such an overt manner like this.

    Me, I’ll choose to stick to the pertinent questions and not allow you to dance around them. Only so many times you can try to deflect before people start noticing:

    1) What factual errors were made by RTE Primetime that nullifies their claims?

    2) Where is the flaw in my analysis that cast doubt on MSG’s claims of earning click revenue?

    3) What qualitative difference would apply to the MSG recruitment method if there was no MSG application? In other words, if the MSG application is merely incidental to the recruitment method then how can anyone continue to claim this method is not a pyramid scheme?

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  56. My pleasure Todd. Spread the word and USE IT.

    BTW – I’ve been reading the thread that MadHair has been participating in. He’s had his questions answered a dozen times – but just keep regurgitating the same questions over and over. (It’s rather amusing.)

    Nor does the group appear to have the first clue on what to look for or what questions to ask. (Also very amusing.)

    I’ve been with another company that came under the same type of fire and accusations. It’s still in business to this day. Amway went through it – PrePaid, Herbalife, and even USANA. All still standing and doing fine.

    Don’t let the small minds bother you. They just like to feel important and smarter than everyone else.

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  57. Genie Gems,

    Just checked your example with Amazon. You ROCK!

    We DO need to show this in meetings to squash the haters who want to blow smoke.

    That’s AWESOME!!!!

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  58. LOL! I know what your concern is MadHair – it’s VERY evident that your concern is over “recruiting”.

    Trust me, I understand perfectly how this strikes fear and emotion in you. Most just let it go saying “No thanks – not for me” like a normal person – But I can at least acknowledge your phobia over the practice of recruiting while at the same time informing others why it’s so completely ridiculous to hold your belief that it’s all about recruiting.

    It’s a 40-1 ratio – which is pretty solid. But if you want to hold onto RTE being right – “that it’s aaaall about the recruiting” – about all I can say is “you can lead a horse to water”. Not my problem that the horse has turned around showing his other end.

    If you want to talk “sleight of hand” let’s talk SkyBiz. I’m not going to tell you that I would have gotten involved with the company, but unfortunately I was never given the opportunity to even look at it because guys like you went all spastic about it and the Government shut it down. Point is it DID NOT run out of prospects or people. The Government was the case of the last man standing – not the model dear boy. And it’s an example of the model doing this that’s the type of documentation I’ve been looking for going on some 6 years now, and nobody can come up with ONE documented case.

    Tell my Father-in-Law that the Genie doesn’t have value. He’s spending HALF of what he use to spend on his diabetic medication thanks to installing the Genie.

    Tell my neighbor the Genie doesn’t have value. She’s coming home with $300 worth of groceries for $97.

    Tell me it doesn’t have value. I’ve saved THOUSANDS. Hundreds on a new flat screen that I just LOVE.

    And I’m the only one who was “recruited”. (Who knew?!)

    Gang, don’t even bother looking for “sniffer software”. If the Genie can transmit the search term – it’s communicating. MadHair can get as mad as he wants – but this simple fact makes the software completely unnecessary and unwarranted. If you’d like to check further, do my example on Amazon – there again you’ll see not only the search term but the unique identifier is placed inside the URL.

    THAT’S what you need to be showing and promoting at the meetings and what people need to see. Then when they come across guys like MadHair, they’ll know exactly where the hair is coming from. ;-P

    And regarding you questions MadHair.

    1) What factual errors were made by RTE Primetime that nullifies their claims?

    Distributors give away 40 free Genie’s to one “recruit”. Ignore it if you want…but the numbers claim otherwise.

    2) Where is the flaw in my analysis that cast doubt on MSG’s claims of earning click revenue?

    No doubt. Every click pulls up the exact search term on the corresponding site. Instead of sniffer software, why don’t you try the actual product?

    3) What qualitative difference would apply to the MSG recruitment method if there was no MSG application? In other words, if the MSG application is merely incidental to the recruitment method then how can anyone continue to claim this method is not a pyramid scheme?

    Sorry, can’t answer this one because the two are not identical. Try asking something that actually applies and makes sense.

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  59. What they can’t get paid on is “click income” generated by free Genies installations tied to their license agreement with MSG.

    I see you have ignored the posts made on this thread which detail why this isn’t the case.

    Concerning the “factual errors” in the RTE report I’ll just start with the fact he can’t divide properly. The report documents that there are 1.6 million Genie installations and 40,000 Distributors. That’s a 40-1 ratio of installs over Distributors. Yet – all our focus is on recruiting Distributors?

    Yet again a nice piece of rhetoric is used in the way of logic. People can get the app and use it, but this is not what people are expressing concerns over. The concerns are over the recruitment scheme itself and, just like John D Walsh, you are trying to use the application as a distraction from that. As I have pointed out, repeatedly now, the actual application is completely incidental to the recruitment scheme. But, yet again, this little factoid is ignored, and in the process so are the concerns that RTE Primetime raised.

    Also – how is this a factual error? It continues to surprise me how asking such a simple question like “1) What factual errors were made by RTE Primetime that nullifies their claims?” is met with commentary like the above that completely miss the point.

    Avon has been around since 1889. Tupperware – 1950. Amway – 1959. Mary Kay – 1963.

    Two points that are worth addressing. Firstly, it seems odd that would want to be compared to Amway. Secondly, and this really illustrates the scam that is the MSG recruitment, in the examples you cite at the end of each node is a person with an actual product that they paid for – something that is not true of MSG, since the ‘right to be a distributor’ is not an actual product that can end with a stable node.

    I encourage people to look into how legitimate MLM’s operate since it will help them see why MSG is different.

    I could care less – because none of you can e-ver give me one documented example of company running dry of prospects.

    The companies you cited provided an actual physical product with value, which meant that further money could be obtained through means other than recruitment. If you want an example of a company running dry you need only look at Skybiz. Gee, I wonder what the chap behind Skybiz is doing these days? I heard he got involved in some we shopping application….

    Nobody needs “sniffer software” to conduct a search on any major search engine

    Did you notice the deliberate sleight of hand here? And he probably did it with a straight face too. I’ll explain the sleight of hand in more detail below.

    but their unique Amazon.com account number embedded inside the URL.

    And anyone can use a traffic sniffer to verify that this is false. The sleight of hand above was to imply that the sniffer is being used to perform a search. It isn’t, it is just gathering all the traffic information from when the MSG application does a search. Whether this a mere misunderstanding on your part or a deliberate attempt to deceive will be left up to the readers.

    The purpose of using the sniffer is to collect all the traffic to and from the MSG application. Generally there are two ways pay-per-click systems work, and we can use a sniffer to rule out both. The first way is for the application itself to send on pay-per-click information, and a network sniffer can be used to show that this does not happen (i.e. the application does not send traffic to any third party servers). The second way, as you allude to here, is to use a URL referrer. We can use a network traffic sniffer to see what those URL referrers are, and they turn out to be exact same referrers as used by the search engines that the MSG took its results from (meaning that the referrers do not contain information telling the website that MSG was the sender).

    Here is where I first learned of this problem:
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68157238&postcount=40

    You can get the tool in question here:
    http://www.fiddler2.com/fiddler2/

    Try it out and verify what I am saying for yourself. Compare the referrers for the search engines with those in the MSG links and see for yourself that they are identical.

    The “sniffer software” and this claim that the Genie doesn’t communicate is either a load of rubbish or you have no clue what you’re actually looking at.

    I am familiar with these ‘attack the messenger’ tactics, and I actually encourage you to continue using them. At your conferences, or in one-on-one situations, you may get away with such a transparent methodology, but not so on the free and open internet.

    To conclude I think it is worth reiterating the three key questions, just in case our MSG friends had thought they succeeded in their distractions:

    1) What factual errors were made by RTE Primetime that nullifies their claims?

    2) Where is the flaw in my analysis that cast doubt on MSG’s claims of earning click revenue?

    3) What qualitative difference would apply to the MSG recruitment method if there was no MSG application? In other words, if the MSG application is merely incidental to the recruitment method then how can anyone continue to claim this method is not a pyramid scheme?

    Also worth mentioning that you MSG promoters are your own worst enemy sometimes. The more discussion you encourage on this the more thin the façade becomes…

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  60. The problem with mixing “passion” with “conflict” is that passion often dilutes and sometimes prohibits logical and rational thinking.

    There is no money exchanged for the “right to be a distributor” – that would be an illegal pyramid and all the countries MSG operates in would be after MSG – not just one fruitcake reporter or nameless poster on blog.
    Regardless if a Distributor maintains their $29 License – they can still sell Genie software distribution licenses and get paid. What they can’t get paid on is “click income” generated by free Genies installations tied to their license agreement with MSG.

    Therefore you have the payment structure completely backwards.

    Please make note and correct accordingly. We’d like the general public to know the reality of this payment structure and have no interest in promoting your passionate fears or phobias over recruiting.

    Concerning the “factual errors” in the RTE report I’ll just start with the fact he can’t divide properly. The report documents that there are 1.6 million Genie installations and 40,000 Distributors. That’s a 40-1 ratio of installs over Distributors. Yet – all our focus is on recruiting Distributors?
    The reality is – all HIS focus is on recruiting. What MSG reported is the complete opposite.

    Or can you justify how that math makes any sense? He’s bought into the same lies and myths about “recruiting” you have. All bent out of shape (excuse me – make that “passionate”) about protecting the little guy at the bottom of the pyramid.

    Avon has been around since 1889. Tupperware – 1950. Amway – 1959. Mary Kay – 1963. I could go on with dozens of others who’ve also been recruiting for decades and still haven’t found that pour soul either of you want to protect.
    I know all about the “math” and have seen the example of how it’s supposed to work. I could care less – because none of you can e-ver give me one documented example of company running dry of prospects.

    And what is with this “sniffer software”? Nobody needs “sniffer software” to conduct a search on any major search engine – have the Genie pull up and then click “Amazon” to see with their own eyes that the software not communicated the matching search term – but their unique Amazon.com account number embedded inside the URL.
    The “sniffer software” and this claim that the Genie doesn’t communicate is either a load of rubbish or you have no clue what you’re actually looking at. (Based on my comments above – I’d probably side with the latter.)

    Look – I can appreciate being passionate about something. But when it clouds judgment or rational thinking like it’s done with you – it’s time to take a step back and breath. There’s no factual basis to any of your comments or the reporters for that matter. He’s just buying into the brainwashing embed by other zealots who are uncomfortable and fearful of a distribution model that’s been around for more than 120 years.

    MSG works – and MSG will continue to prosper regardless of your “passion” against it. Your comments and perceptions make you look uneducated and irrational to those who have done their due diligence about the industry, and the company.

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  61. However, MyNet Universe are satisfied that what they are providing is a legitimate product with no intention to defraud.

    As I have tried to highlight, the ‘right to be a distributor’ is not a ‘product’. You are conflating the software application with the recruitment model, and as I explained above the software application is incidental to that recruitment model.

    It is worth pointing out that click revenue problems highlighted on this thread were not discovered by myself. I first seen them noted here:
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68157238&postcount=40
    From here it is a simple matter of downloading tools for network analysis to verify this person’s claims.

    By the way in the hurly burly of the debate we hope no one was offended!

    It is possible to have disagreement with conflict, and a bit of passion is always worth having.

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  62. The last comments were submited by John Walsh. By the way in the hurly burly of the debate we hope no one was offended!

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  63. The above points will be replied to shortly. The arguments are good and the person who has submitted them is doing a valuable service to us all – as they are matters of genuine concern. However, MyNet Universe are satisfied that what they are providing is a legitimate product with no intention to defraud. However, because of legal reasons, it is deemed prudent that we refrain from further debate until all matters are clarified to the satisfaction of all concerned. Hopefully, this will done by the end of the week.

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  64. Reading the latest reply from John D Walsh I note that he has, yet again, failed to highlight a single factual error in the RTE programme that nullified their claims.

    Again, why were hidden cameras used?

    Because getting an account of the sales pitch helped inform viewers of how the scam operates. You ask this question but I suspect you already knew the answer. Remember that, despite previously agreeing, the MSG reps refused to filmed when being interviewed?

    Those at the very bottom, or in the middle, can earn far more than those at the top,

    Aside from the small fact this is refuted by observing the undercover footage from the meeting, and ignoring the small fact that even a moments thought is sufficient to find this logically impossible when you consider the upstream flow revenue, there is the small matter that has been highlighted in my previous post – since the business only gains money through recruitment any earning gradient must necessarily be one way.

    This is the beauty of an open forum like this. In a one-to-one meeting a comment like yours above might bamboozle a potential mark. But here such a comment can be exposed for the nonsense that it is, allowing the public to see how this scam really operates.

    By the way, a Pyramid is an isosceles triangle; a binary is 3 sided square upside down – no resemblance.

    It might help your case if you thought about your words before you post them. Some of the silliness in your comment include:

    – A pyramid is a three-dimensional solid while an isosceles triangle is two-dimensional solid. How can you sensibly compare the two?
    – A square is, by definition, a four-sided shape. If you have shape that is three-sided then it is, by definition, not a square.
    – Binary implies two, not three as you suppose here.
    – Pyramid schemes are so called because they resemble a pyramid. The resemblance is the way that both have increased size for each subsequent level – something that any sensible person can see is also true of a binary recruitment system.

    If the Shopping Genie was pikie-backing on Google then why have Google done nothing about it?

    Google has not done anything about it because MSG is not piggy-backing. I have explained how this is the case in detail in my previous post. Whether the ad is displayed in Google direct or in MSG makes no difference – when the user clicks it Google collects revenue in exactly the same way.

    f Google’s income had diminished because of the Shopping Genie would they not have taken legal action to block it?

    Google would have no case to take legal action, and I suspect that your lack of computer knowledge may be blinding you to why this is so. Since the MSG application operates entirely on a web user’s computer, and since it is only doing things thing the web user can already do manually, any case Google takes would be tantamount to them claiming the right to determine how a web user uses their own computer.

    For an actual example of the legal reasoning here see the Electronic Freedom Frontier’s take on the Skipscreen case:
    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/its-my-browser-and-ill-auto-click-if-i-want

    The same legal reasoning would bar Google taking a similar lawsuit. Of course, understanding all these legal shenanigans tends to puncture your use of rhetoric here.

    Anybody I know that uses it are happy that it definitely works – and prove it by the amazing amount of money they have saved.

    Yet again you are deliberately trying to distract from the key point. The application might help users find products cheaper, but that is completely irrelevant to the analysis in my previous post where I showed why MSG cannot earn click revenue. I am not surprised that you avoided that analysis since it cuts right to the elephant in the MSG warehouse.

    PS Please refrain from any more vularized comments on this site.

    Calling bs when it is warranted isn’t something I will stop doing on your account, particularly given the shallow and disingenuous commentary you have offered so far.

    In conclusion.

    The key questions still remain unanswered, and it would appear that attacking the messenger type comments and off-topic bluster are attempting to distract from this. I’m repeating these key questions, as I see them, here to nip these distraction tactics in the bud:

    1) What factual errors were made by RTE Primetime that nullifies their claims?

    2) Where is the flaw in my analysis that cast doubt on MSG’s claims of earning click revenue?

    3) What qualitative difference would apply to the MSG recruitment method if there was no MSG application? In other words, if the MSG application is merely incidental to the recruitment method then how can anyone continue to claim this method is not a pyramid scheme?

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  65. I hear that The Prime Time programme has just been nominated by North Korean Television for a major prize in manipulating viewers. It was a cut and paste job. The problem is that the reporter came with a pre-conceived view, irespective of the facts, and wished to use film footage to convey that view. For example, he had High Paul Ward saying “you could become a millioanaire in 12 weeks” . However, Hugh Paul was not talking about the Genie he was quoting a Bank claim of interest made on deposits! Again, they showed an interview with Genie executives in a corridor and they immiediately getting into a lift – giving the impression they were running away. However, in reality they got into the lift 20 minutes after their quoted comments! The idea the journalist was giving was that all these people at the meetings were suckers being duped out their money by these scheming scammers. Again, in reality, people at these meetings are hard headed businessmen and women who could spot a shark a mile away.

    Of course to refer to this as a “Shopping Genie Pyramid Scheme” is as credible as referring to the “Bart Simpson Institution of Model Childhood Behaviour”! Again, why were hidden cameras used? I know for a fact that people have brought video cameras into meetings clearly visible on tripods and there has been no problem.

    If it was a Pyramid Scheme why are the earnings not from the top down? Those at the very bottom, or in the middle, can earn far more than those at the top, By the way, a Pyramid is an isosceles triangle; a binary is 3 sided square upside down – no resemblance.

    If the Shopping Genie was pikie-backing on Google then why have Google done nothing about it? If Google’s income had diminished because of the Shopping Genie would they not have taken legal action to block it? Obviously they are happy with it sitting on top of their application and it must be increasing their revenues.

    The Shopping Genie is about using Google optimisdation and aggregatting search engines to the maximum benefit of bargain hunters. Anybody I know that uses it are happy that it definitely works – and prove it by the amazing amount of money they have saved. They soon tell you where they want the boring tiresome begrudgers to go!

    PS Please refrain from any more vularized comments on this site. English (and Irish for that matter also) is a beautiful language – lets keep it that way!

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  66. A pyramid scheme is where people are invited to invest money on the basis of large returns. People at the top make a lot of money, those in the middle break even, and those at the bottom lose out. The scheme is self-destructive because as soon as the money drys up it collapses. The people who push it are acting fraudelently because they are deliberately fooling people out of their money

    This sounds like a perfect description of the MSG recruitment model to me. I could not have put it any better myself.

    It works on a binary system.

    So do some pyramid schemes. If you had spent more than a moment’s thought on this you would be able to concoct a pyramid scheme that is binary. This is quite a common talking used by MSG promoters, and that it is so clearly missing the point makes me incredibly suspicious of those using it.

    At present they are those in the Shopping Genie who do not invite anybody to join the business and yet are making a lot of money.

    I am quite prepared to call bs on this claim, and I base this on two points that have cropped up during my research:

    1) There is no mechanism by which MSG can tap into click revenue sources.

    Look at how click revenue is generated. A seller pays a company to host adverts, and when people click on that ad the company then charges the seller for those clicks. Usually there are intermediaries such as advertising companies, but this is the basic underlying principle.

    Take an actual example. A company like Amazon will pay Google to display adverts. So when a web user does a search for a product some of those adverts may be for Amazon. If this user clicks on an Amazon advert then Google will bill Amazon for that click. Pretty simple.

    MSG has no mechanism to tap into this. Suppose a web user has installed the MSG application. They do a search as normal only this time MSG is displaying the Amazon sponsored Google advert. A user clicks on this advert and Google will charge Amazon as normal for the click. Here is the problem – neither Google nor Amazon are affiliated with MSG so they will not be giving MSG any money. Primetime discovered that Google is not affiliated with MSG, and when I emailed Amazon they replied back “It is a shopping application and is not affiliated with Amazon.”.

    In short MSG has no mechanism to tap into the click revenue in the adverts MSG is displaying. If the seller (eg: Amazon) paying for the advert is not giving MSG any money and if the search engine (eg: Google) is not paying MSG any money then how can MSG possible earn money from click revenue???

    2) The MSG software does not track user clicks.

    This is further evidence in support of point one above, and anyone can check this out for themselves if they have the technical know-how. Install the MSG application, and have a network traffic sniffer running. Do a search and then click on an MSG result. When you go through the network traffic logs collected by your sniffer you will note that the MSG application DOES NOT track any user clicks and DOES NOT send that information to any MSG related domain.

    If there really was click revenue then such a tracking mechanism would be needed to determine how to distribute the revenue among MSG distributors. That there is no such mechanism is strong evidence that MSG is incapable of tapping into click revenue streams.

    If there is no click revenue then the only source of money is through recruitment, which puts the entire operation firmly and unequivocally in the pyramid scam section.

    By giving someone a free product that saves them between 100 and 150 Euro a month, you are not taking any money from them so how could you be derauding them of their income?

    Classic sleight of hand, and one that is also commonly used by MSG promoters. The people getting scammed are those who are paying the €160+ to become distributors, and they are getting scammed because they are being sucked into a pyramid scheme.

    The crux of this issue is that the scam is the recruitment model. The MSG application, in and of itself, is thin window dressing that is being used to distract from what the recruitment model really is.

    The jourmalist involved was invited in good faith to the meeting.

    Yet again back to attacking the journalist. Any argument of good faith would fail given the bare faced lie being told during the meeting regarding click revenue, but this is all simply a distraction from your utter inability to falsify the case the journalist made. What point of factual error did the RTE production make that nullifies their claims? This is the question that no amount of attacking the messenger will address.

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  67. A pyramid scheme is where people are invited to invest money on the basis of large returns. People at the top make a lot of money, those in the middle break even, and those at the bottom lose out. The scheme is self-destructive because as soon as the money drys up it collapses. The people who push it are acting fraudelently because they are deliberately fooling people out of their money.

    In no way does the Shopping Genie fit into that definition. It works on a binary system. At present they are those in the Shopping Genie who do not invite anybody to join the business and yet are making a lot of money. They are doing it by giving away genies. By giving someone a free product that saves them between 100 and 150 Euro a month, you are not taking any money from them so how could you be derauding them of their income? The licence to give away free genies is a little over 160 Euro. Even if you get a dog licence you have to pay for it. Surely you not expecting to get a computer application that will earn you money for nothing? Your overheads cost just a fiver a week!

    The jourmalist involved was invited in good faith to the meeting.He betrayed this trust by attempting to depict it as if was a Dutch Auction. This was devious. So this is the kind of person we are supposed to believe acted honourably? How could anyone believe him? Michael O’Leary will never give a recorded interview. Why? Becuase he believes the tv company will manipualte what he says to his conpany;’s disadvantage. Journaliasm was ill-served by that broadcast,

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  68. I have been following the aftermath of the Primetime investigation on numerous forums over the last few days, and I am somewhat surprised it took so long for a MSG defender to pop by here.

    And how does this person defend MSG? Well…they don’t actually. They cry ‘Tabloid television’ and ’sensationalism’…. but kind of miss out the part where they show any of this. The claim regarding the hidden cameras is laughable when you consider that A) it was apparent throughout the show that MSG personnel were not happy being filmed and that B) the undercover cameras captured the type of sales pitch being delivered (as well as an awesome shot of the picture depicting recruitment, which screamed pyramid).

    And what hidden agenda did RTE Primetime have? Informing the public? Exposing this scam? Oh the horrors of the RTE hidden agenda. How dare they inform the wider community against a scam!

    Anybody who properly examined the product and business model would know its a franchise and the income is based on click revenue from search engines.

    It is interesting to me that so many people defending MSG across the forums make this claim, despite the small problem that not only is it untrue, but the MSG folks got cornered into admitting it wasn’t true during the show. Actual search engines that do actual click revenue, such as Kelkoo or Google, are connected with actual product sellers to be able to deliver said revenue. MSG isn’t connected to sellers, and does little more than sit on top of Google displaying results from genuine advertisers such as Kelkoo and Google (which is arguably fraud but that is another matter). That the MSG chap tried to pull a figure out of his ass, a figure that still managed to blow his own façade-business-model out the window, when cornered on this point just emphasised the recruitment-based nature of the business.

    Primetime actually understated the fundamental problem here, namely that the recruitment model does not depend on the existence of a product. Imagine an identical recruitment model but with no software app to confuse the issue. Here there would be no qualitative difference in how that recruiting method operated, and the pyramid nature of the scheme becomes obvious.

    160 Euro plus is hardly anybody’s life savings!

    Comments like these abound the forums, and it really does make question the integrity of those making them. Let’s reiterate the charges being brought against MSG here – namely that the recruitment model it operates, the basis of its business model, is a pyramid scheme. When a person makes a comment like the above they are making use of a rhetorical device, but one that completely, utterly and totally fails to address this charge on any level whatsoever.

    And it isn’t even a true comment. Part of the recruitment meetings is to encourage people to sell to friends and family (even recommending starting with the numbers in your phone). Since any exponential recruiting model must necessarily fail, there will be people who are not only out their money but will now have pissed off friends and family whom they recruited. That is why pyramid schemes, no matter the amount of initial investment needed, are really stupid things to be involved with. But with your comment you are not only not addressing these very real problems, but you are actively avoiding them in lieu of making a shallow sales pitch.

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  69. The Prime Time report on the Shopping Genie was the worst form of Tabloid television. That Prime Time should have taken a story from The Sunday Independen without checking on its veracity is astonishing in relation to their previous high standards. The Sunday Indeoendent, once a respectable paper, is now regarded as a rag! Sensationalism is preferred to truth. Did it not occur to anybody watching this programme that people who use hidden cameras might have a hidden agenda? There was no need for hidden cameras as it was a public meeting. The use of these cameras is to give impression of sinistership: all of these gullible people taken in by fly-by-night quick rich charlatans! Anybody who properly examined the product and business model would know its a franchise and the income is based on click revenue from search engines. 160 Euro plus is hardly anybody’s life savings!

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  70. Well done Rory,

    Fair play to you for exposing these scammers. Although, be mindful, as multi-level marketing is actually legal, they may sue either you or the channel as a result of this report.

    From talking to some of the people actually in this programme, this apparently is on the cards. This report could be very costly for both sides here.

    Let’s hope honesty and integrity wins!

    Good report.

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