Victory Outreach … What is really going on?

Victory Outreach–founded by

Sonny Arguinzoni

Dialogue Ireland has been receiving reports from victims, health professionals and former members which raise questions about the nature of this ministry. We have also been approached by those working in the courts who are concerned not all is what it appears. They are concerned with people who show up in court from this group. We hope that the blog will provide people a secure and confidential place to leave their experiences about this group. We also will provide a platform for Victory Outreach to reply to any comments made. Furthermore we will provide them with uncensored right of reply.

ministries

When trying to contact the group we find the above link or for that matter when we try to understand their background?

website_02 preacherwebsite_02mission_05vo hq
http://www.rickross.com/groups/victory_outreach.html

http://victoryoutreachcork.ie/history-of-victory-outreach-international/

http://spiritualabusesurvivors.blogspot.com/2008/04/victory-outreach-abuse.html

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/v00.html#vict

Views from a theological vantage not the perspective of DI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jymKyHu_sQ4

There are contrasting views about Victory Outreach, but we ourselves have a great lot of material which we are not free to release as yet.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/bakersfield-ca/T0TLAHTL9B5HU4G92

Victory Outreach

Kylemore
Ballyfermot,
01 623 9383

http://www.victoryoutreachdublin.ie/

http://www.victoryoutreach.org/

http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/hooked-on-addiction-by-jennifer-o%E2%80%99connell-sunday-business-post-23-october-2011/

Victory Outreach has no connection to the Victory Church or

Centre in Firhouse, Dublin

http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/category/faith-movement-abundant-life/

http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/category/victory-galway/

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176 Responses

  1. My experience with Victory Outreach Dublin Led by Pastor Andrew Valdez Senior, almost led me to taking my own life due to their mind controlling tactics. They are of the same mindset as the Drug Dealers that engage in terror directed at our young. Victory Outreach Ireland are a more subtle force. They are financed by their illegal fund raising methods by using young vulnerable men and woman to do their fund raising for them. They give false hope to these unfortunates that are bound to drug addiction. Moreover by their nature Victory Outreach intl Ireland is deluded into believing they they are the only Christian outfit whereas they are obsessed with their ministry rather than focused on Jesus Christ the centre of the Christian Faith. They have in reality substituted Religion for drugs for religion. The result that they have made addicts addicts to Victory Outreach rather than Christ. They confuse addiction to Christ with addiction to drugs as a result they engage in behaviour that relates to un-treated addiction which is far removed from the spiritual recovery. In my view the difference between religion and spirituality is that the former is a set of rules and externals and the latter is a relationship based on Christian faith; the chief cornerstone being the Lord himself.
    Victory Outreach in my view along with others of sober judgement believe Victory Outreach sets itself above Christ by its worship of its ministry and its leadership Andy Valdez Senior. He has stated on many occasions that one has to put God first followed by the family then the ministry. However, my experience is the opposite. If one tries to do that one will be accused of not serving God if one tries to express the idea of putting God then family before. It is total control in this group. In the event of a church member or some vulnerable young person stepping out of line in this area they will be assured to be a victim of bullying or what’s commonly known as spiritual abuse! I have only posted a tiny fraction of the sinister aspects and behaviours which I have experienced in regard to Victory Outreach international Ireland They are led by Andrew Valdez senior supported by the team of Elders: Pastor Martin Lynch, Pastor Gary Keogh, Pastor Stewart Murphy and Andy Valdez’s son Pastor Andrew Junior along with Marie Valdez who is submissive to her husband Andy Senior. However do not be naive she is the real power behind the throne. She is next in line to her husband in a controlling and abusive role in this dangerous cult. As I have stated above this only a small fraction and we will be bringing more details to the public’s attention. Professional in addiction, the law, and other Christian groups like Teen Challenge need to assist us as we try to come from under this cloud.

  2. My sister just went into victory outreach two weeks ago after been an addict for 20 years, she has two young kids who my family and I are now looking after, I am not a holy person but to see the love and care these people share with the people they take into there own homes really touches me and to say that there a cult is ridiculous, in the end I would rather my sister be addicted to god or victory outreach than drugs. So if that’s what this place does then I’m glad for it, because hopefully she can come out the other end a better person for it.

  3. This obviously is a V/O member who placed the comment, if  not it is someone that is close to V/O  long term.  I sense they are also fishing for the identity of the blogger.  In relation to Jessica question? Is it better for someone to be addicted to V/O or drugs? Better neither, but having her sister addicted to V/O, means more people being abused, by the V/O addict.

    ________________________________

  4. I would be a widow without victory outreach dublin my children would have no father…simple as that. I am greatful for the work they are doing in this country. Write whatever response you like there are always haters of good work

  5. Do write up your story and we will publish it. Explain how it works. How addicts are sent to collect funds. Give us an insight into how you deal with addiction? Get some of those who have graduated to tell us their stories. Do you publish your accounts? DI Moderation

  6. so are you saying these things never happened. Tell us your story?

  7. 1 corinthians ch.6 v 3:10…..
    Fundamentally,teaching Christ is bringing many lost and hurting souls into the kingdom,but the added dross comes from an almost militant mindset that is thought in the rehab homes and the church.In American culture this “Capatilist Christianity”seems to work ,but is drawing serious criticism in Irish Christian circles,whilst the us and them insular mentality is wrong also. But hey y’no the old saying,”find the perfect church,you better get outta it,before you ruin it..”
    I referenced the above scripture to show the mindset of such ministries.

  8. well isnt it better to have faith in god an be happy like all these ppl instead of doing wat everday ppl do, go out at weekends and hav 1 nite stands,cheat, be bad minded towards everybody i hav been to only 1 service an i can tell u the tears i cried were real because the lov i felt was amazing.i myself am thinking about going into VO to sort my life out im not a drug addict i just want to get my life sorted coz if i dont ill end up a drug addict in this country because society and people wud drive u that way!! whoever u are that wrote the comment about the pastor only using the youth to make money..u wanna hav a look at what the government is doing to us. they are robbing us mate!!

  9. Lisa

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. The government might be robbing us but that is no excuse for VOD to do the same to vulnerable people. Everyday people are not all the same. You have been to one service and have made your mind up already? You may be in for an unpleasant surprise.

  10. no i havent made up my mind yet. how do u know so much about this

  11. Lisa

    You posted:

    “i hav been to only 1 service an i can tell u the tears i cried were real because the lov i felt was amazing.”

    The scene is set for an emotional response. It’s called ‘love bombing’ and this is what makes people keep going there. Take care of yourself.

  12. Lisa
    You sound quite sincere and honest in your understanding of your first service at VOD. I myself was overwhelmed with love and emotion from the worship, but as it was your first service I can see how that would happen because its set up that way. I myself was there for 5 years and I’m telling you get out ASAP because eventually Sr Marie will let her mask slip and if you think this city will drive you to drugs that “church” will drive you there quicker.

    I pray you don’t have kids cause their “children’s chapel” has had convicted xxxxx working in them. What you see is not what you get with VOD.

    As of Friday 1:30 no evidence had been forwarded so this claim has been removed.

    I wouldn’t normally comment on these sites but you’ll destroy your life there, I know because I nearly did.

  13. Also Lisa
    Please feel free to ask me anything about VOD, 5years there was a long time. Anyone else from VOD feel free to reply also.

  14. i have spoken to a few girls in there an they seem ok. maybe everybody is just different. I don’t know to be honest what they are like. were u an addict?

  15. No I wasn’t , I had a friend who was an addict and I went to the church for my friend and eventually I went into the home because they convinced me it would strengthen my walk with God. Soon enough I was no longer surrounded by love but by control. Going in the home you have to sign a commitment form with 28 rules all of which apply to the home and “church” none applied to Fundraising but yet they tell you it’s part of the programme. And if you don’t want to do it you’re told you’re disobedient and if you don’t reach your daily target you’re told you’re in sin and so you receive punishment. I had to get up one morning at 3am and clean a tiled bathroom including toilet, bath, floor and walls with a toothbrush. I had to accept my punishment because as Sr Marie said God punishes those he loves. Heb 12:6

  16. are u talking about victory outreach in Dublin?

  17. Yes Victory Outreach Dublin Unit 11/12 Westlink Industrial Estate Ballyfermot. Pastor Andrew Valdez and his wife Marie run the “church”

  18. yeh but the girls and boys run the houses an they seem decent enough

  19. Oh people like Graham and Linda Bracken or Gary and Carol O Toole or Trevor. They’re all trained to reel you in they won’t show their true colours until you’re in one of their homes. The only decent Home Director there is Will Ryan but unfortunately for him he was thrown in the deep end, put in charge of a men’s home after only finishing the same home himself a couple of months earlier. It was good in a way cause it got rid of Aido who had the lads fundraising in pubs until 3 am even though they were supposed to be in a rehab.

  20. my God it must be really bad in there!! u wouldn’t think they would be like that at all. even on Sundays the parents go an they seem happy with their sons and daughters for doing so well

  21. My advice would be if you enjoy the service go on Sundays Only, don’t get roped in. Believe me you’ll be approached to go to a women’s afternoon which will soon turn to every week women’s training and bible study and after that they’ll find something lacking in you that could easily be sorted by you going into the home.

  22. @ Lisa its great going in and feeling the so called love the reason for this is your vulnerability?? They speak of love, forgiveness and healing what every adult that walks through their doors is searching for so almost instantly you feel this is the place for me !! I can speak from experience and tell you this is not reality what Marko has told you is the truth, to be honest they do more hurting than healing. They say they reach the hurting people and they do but hurt them more in the process . The reason why none of the men or woman in the home don’t say anything is they are told every morning in bible study about how they have let their family down and now they have the chance to show change, guilt keeps them from talking, They want acceptance so put on a brave face and false smile for their families to have peace. Just look around at how empty the church is they are here 15 odd yrs it should be packed with the amount of addiction in this country. @ Sharon why have you given the glory to VO for your husband rather than God, is that not a false idol ?? @ Dayo its not an old saying its what pastor Andy says to the rehab homes on a Tuesday morning to shut them up speaking negative about the church.

  23. Emma and Marko:

    I find your posts very interesting. It is very important that you let people know what they are getting into. I have never been in Outreach. The more I read the posts sent in by people who have been there and, in some cases, have been there for a long period of time, the better I understand what type of set-up they have and it is nothing new as many money-making scams have been set up in this way. Supposing, and I say supposing, this group had good intentions in the beginning, even if they do help some people, it does not take them long to show their true colours. Do they claim to cure addiction? Do they keep records of people with serious addictions who go to them for help? Do they keep a record of how their ‘treatment’ is helping them? Is there any evidence of how ‘bible study’ has helped them to turn their lives around?

    Am I right in saying they ‘love bomb’ addicts and their families to attend and then put them to work in their house/s and on the street collecting money for them? Is the money counted and recorded? Does anyone know what the money they collect is spent on and do they keep receipts?

    What angers me is how they use selected teaches from the bible to keep them in shame and fear and dependent on them. How are they treated in the houses? There may be some who feel they have nowhere else to go, however, this is not a reason to allow themselves to be used or abused by workers. You can be sure the workers are benefitting from the money that is collected.

  24. Angie
    For someone who’s never been there your observations are bang on. They keep records of people who are good at obeying and remaining “faithful” to the cause as they say. I personally know people who have been there for more than a year who left and were in court for fundraising for VOD while they were in the homes and because they left VOD refused to give them a letter to say they had even been there.Most of the lads wouldn’t be well up on the law and end up getting a conviction for fundraising for a place where they’re supposed to be getting help for addiction. One day someone will get wise and realise they are allowed to Suppoena Pastor Andy Valdez snr to court to answer why a rehab sends recovering addicts into pubs, clubs, shopping centres and people’s homes to beg for money illegally. The lads have a daily target which is all handed in to the so called Pastor. I haven’t been there for a while but the targets when I was there were Tues- &250. Thurs-€250. Fri-€300. And Sat-€350 and there would be well more than 20 people a week bringing in these targets ” in the name of God ” any one not reaching a target are told they must be in sin and are punished. I personally saw the used fundraising sheets being burnt in a bin in A house they rented in Drogheda and it took hours, thousands of sheets.

  25. DI Moderation
    If you email me I can give you the names of the people and you can check out what I’ve said

  26. The ‘faithful’ collectors, I presume, return with the money and are considered as being morally better than those who don’t. The mind boggles. You say:

    “One day someone will get wise and realise they are allowed to Suppoena Pastor Andy Valdez snr to court to answer why a rehab sends recovering addicts into pubs, clubs, shopping centres and people’s homes to beg for money illegally.”

    I agree that the Pastor should be subpoenaed as it is clear the collectors are breaking the law when the Gardaí refuse them a permit. It is shocking that vulnerable people are used in this way. When they are sent out regularly to beg it puts them in a very awkward position with the law and also they may be tempted to use the money for drugs.

    It’s unbelievable that these, so called, Christian’s tell them they are in sin and punished when they don’t reach a target. How do they get away with this? I think it’s time to name and shame them. You have witnessed enough to know it is a scam.

  27. Marko I was in the home for a while. I had reservations about health and Safety Eg overcrowding domestic hygiene Also the Rehab Home was a rented house In a built up area. From what I gathered the locals were not aware of a drug rehab within their community. It seems they just rent houses and turn them into Rehab Homes. I am wondering does the Law require a licence for an addiction rehab to operate?.

  28. I would never think of going into that place it sounds mad!

  29. As a Mental Health Professional and a member of Victory Outreach Intl, the ministry does an outstanding job. Though many facilities are not government zoned or licensed, and many feel they are not qualified but the motive is pure. In my experienced I have seen many “so called professionals” not know how to work with a “drug addict.” As I look at the Mental Health Industry it is a “joke”, look at the words “Mental Health.” No one has access to the Mental Aspect of a human, no MA, Ph.D can touch the brain God created but only observe the outward behaviors. VO addresses the “spirit man” by solely relying on God the Father and his word and what he promises. Many people that may have had a bad experienced are wrestling with the spirit man and the father who “points out flaws” known as the process by many. I really believe VO should be federally funded, but the founder and elders chose to submit to God and his word. By receiving funds it can in a sense tie the hands of the gospel being preached. By submitted to totally to GOD is says and reveals the true motive of VO and it’s leadership, which is love for people. Overall the success rate is excellent, I do feel the name “rehab” should be changed to perhaps “discipleship homes” because the men are being prepared for ministry. VO is a tool in the masters hands.

  30. Setfree4good:

    You have a lot to say for yourself. You post that;

    “As a Mental Health Professional and a member of Victory Outreach Intl,”

    Are you telling me that it is an international organisation? What are your qualifications as a mental health worker? Where did you train? In what area have you received your qualifications?

    Your language is strangely antiquated and I believe “the founder and elders” got a nice little money earner going for themselves. They are no different to any con artist who uses others to work for them to line their pockets.

    You say “By receiving funds it can in a sense tie the hands of the gospel being preached.”

    Well well! It also means you are answerable to no-one and why draw attention to yourselves when you can get money elsewhere? You would have to submit any further money you collect and provide answers and records of what it is spent on.

    What exsactly do you mean by “Overall the success rate is excellent,”? Do you keep records of every addict that has attended your organisation? What are the figures for success? How much money did each of them beg for on the streets?

    You also say that you “do feel the name “rehab” should be changed to perhaps “discipleship homes” because the men are being prepared for ministry. VO is a tool in the masters hands.”

    Seriously, what ministry are they being prepared for? What jobs are available to them in society following your training? Do they receive a degree? Or is it more about being indoctrinated by chosen passages of the bible and influenced and abused by Pastor Andy Valdez snr?

    Oh dear! Now this concerns me and I’m not surprised Dialogue has listed you as a cult. For a group who has so much “love for people” you don’t treat them very well, in fact, you send them out to break the law. You must be kept very busy “pointing out flaws” when they don’t reach their target. I find it disgusting that you use this opportunity to remind people of their ‘sins’. Your reasoning about and use of bible passages to keep them in line is abhorrant and reminds me of old Ireland when the clergy got away with using the word of God to frighten and intimidate people into ‘behaving themselves’. What excuse do you have for this? Are you intimidating them into not coming back to the house until they make their quota?

    My stomach would turn if I had to listen to the garbage coming out of your mouth and I feel sorry for the people who rely on your methods of teaching the word of God.

  31. setfreeforgood, you contradict yourself as you say you are a professional?? If you are this you would be against the home taking control over a persons life as a person themselves only know what is best for them not so called leaders, The term rehab is a joke as there is no recovery or talk of becoming a productive member of society, its not about growing the kingdom of god as you are told but about growing VO as you said yourself its about ministry, the goverment wont touch them as they then would be accountable for the harm the cause people. Teen challange is government funded and also gets help from the DTF and they are still bible based ministry with professional people working there spirtually and physically.
    @ Angie yes its international where the founders get treated like they are king and queen with private jets and boats so sad to think of the amount of people who have given to this and not paid household bills while they live in luxury. I myself am guilty of this but thankfully i got sense and my time into more productive things.

  32. Lisa im so glad you have decided against the idea, I would never warn somebody unless there is good reason and in this situation there was. I no life gets hard and i hope you find whatever it is you are searching for but i can tell you from experience drugs is not the answer.

  33. It is well documented in VOD that Pastor Andy is Gods anointed its really V/O way of saying he is untouchable and there are “consequences” for those who come against him.
    In relation to health professionals and the view that Victory Outreach Dublin intl have.. I heard. Andy Valdez sen quote that Psychiatrists use who they treat, to keep themselves in a job. As a Christian I affirm on Mr Valdez sen words belittling the psychiatric services

  34. It sounds like Pastor Andy, as he probably likes to be known, a self-proclaimed ‘master’, is a slick conman. Convincing people that the psychiatric services are in it for themselves and by saying this, bringing about a loss of faith in any other method of treatment, it’s his way of reeling addicts in. He accuses others of doing exactly what he does; he uses them for his own benefit and destroys their sense of self in that they fall totally for the con, swallow the lie, or understand what he is doing and become part of it. Religious cults are well known to twist the meaning of certain passages to manipulate emotions and gain control over people who they have set up to depend on them.

    Neurological scans have proved certain people are prone to addictive substances and need to make a lifelong commitment to avoid using otherwise life can go badly wrong for them. Science explains addiction far better than any moral judgement of a person does and, I believe, gives a far more grounded reason for not taking drugs. I can understand why they would rely on the high (love-bombing) that draws them into a cult; however, I seriously question whether there are long-term benefits. Understanding human weakness and what they crave, conmen are notorious for instinctively knowing how to make someone feel special with only one motive in mind; to use them in some way that benefits them. The good times are short-lived and the real reason they are there becomes obvious. Pastor Andy is a master alright; he’s a master of deception.

  35. Setfree4good

    I can tell from your wording you’re more than likely from the US. It’s obvious you haven’t spent much time in VOD. The homes and church are not run the same as in the US. The homes here are motivated by money, the Pastor I’m sure came here with good intentions but when the big money started rolling in (approximately 1.2million a year) Greed took over. As you’re a member of VO intl. maybe you know that Pastor Sonny doesn’t agree with the homes out begging, for that reason when any senior Pastors or Elders visit VOD fundraising is stopped until they leave. As you’re in the mental health profession how do you feel about vulnerable drug addicts being sent out for ridiculous targets being told they’re in sin when they don’t achieve them ?
    And how do you feel about people blatantly bending scripture to suit their own ends ?
    All this happens in Ireland.

  36. Lisa has passed away. She took her own life two days ago. we are all sad. I think this wa too much stress 4 her it washer only hope of changing her life.. x

    If this was some kind of sick April Fools joke, it reveals the nature of what we are dealing with in an advocate of the VO.
    The problem with the above is that the said Lisa who had taken her own life was the same Lisa who left the comment! She did not get back to us so will be passing on her details to the Gardai for abuse of this site:

    We take very seriously abuse of our site. I have removed your comment as it is of a very serious nature.
    If you have not contacted me by Tuesday April 2 @ 11 I will be passing your details to the Gardai

  37. Andy Valdez sen has played on the Irish People who are noted for their charitable nature. Who in my opinion deem all charitable causes as good causes. However as for enterprise in VOD it is a nonstarter except for the odd “nixer” Mr Valdez sen is a smash and grab merchant, a quick fixer, thus holding on to his addictive behaviour. As a result he is compelled to feed his behavioural addiction and his greedy method of fundraising at the expense of others. To quote Setrfree that V/O.” is a tool in the master’s hands”. I would ask the question which master?, as modern day slavery is not of God or any form of humanism. . .

  38. Im hoping the comments were made by VO and not by Lisa. This is exactly how they operate putting fear and guilt into peoples lives. It shows their true colours. And why people dont come forward in talking the truth. The amount of peoples lives who are left confused by their so called theroy of how to live. Its so unfair that they can get away with using and abusing people for their own greed and power.

  39. Joey,

    It is so typical of cult groups to cause confusion in peoples thinking and is a well know method to manipulate them into taking on beliefs they would not have previously. It’s works better for the cultish group when these beliefs provoke fear and guilt. The sad part is it works and they are afraid to come forward. It takes a lot of courage on their part and I hope the comments will help them understanding what has happened to them.

  40. it is all a scam i made mistake of going there nd i never will again they just want money nd disciplined me by starving me for a night..

  41. I have alot of concerns about this group Vo my ex partner and father of my 2 children is currently in 1 of there homes as he is a drug addict i was so worried when i heard he was going in there because i think there nothing but a cult and out for the money he has been seen many times out on the street ( begging ) or as they say fundraising which i think is terrible why put temptation in someones way and test them like that and what i`ve noticed is they seem to send them into the council estates and places with higher drug addiction is the method there with this do they think people will give more in these places because they see what drugs have done to there estates thats my thinking on it anyway i cant understand how they get away with this victory outreach have realised there is money in addiction and they are going to make it Also what i cant understand or how i see benefits the recovering addicts is when the pastors wives go to conferences over seas like america amsterdam etc paid for dont forget by the begging men and women on the streets what is that all about or is it as i see a nice little holiday for them so much wrong with the group that it worrys me about my ex partner and what they are putting in his head and what they have him doing i myself wanted to go to a sunday service and ask questions myself about there ways which i think i might do because it is out of control how they are getting away with this

  42. victory outreach is the best place to go to get off drug unlike treatment centres they dont get you clean and send you on your way the give you a work ethic and help you with family issues. if you go to a service you will see for yourself how happy everyone is. all theese people who say its the worst mistake of their life just didnt have the strength to stick it out

  43. Hello John, learning how to beg is not receiving a good work ethic and encouraging people who have come through the home to stay in church and marry someone else who stays in church and forget their responsibilities at home ie: previous partner and children, is not my idea of helping with Family issues. And as for you saying about people who didn’t have the strength to “stick it out”, they had the strength to leave unlike yourself. As for me and a lot of others on this I am drug free and living a happy life which is My Life and not the life I’m been told to lead. The Bible says there is freedom in Christ, pity there’s no freedom in Victory Outreach. Victory Outreach has helped a lot of people to get off Drugs but stay there long enough and you’ll be back on something like most of the leaders with there Solpadene and Nurofen Plus. But who am I to judge I was was only there for YEARS.
    By the way it’s easy to be Happy Clappy at service, when you know what you have to face back home if you show how you really feel.

  44. At this moment of time I do not desire to get into a power struggle with the cultic mentality of VOD In my view their last number of comments, are a just set of games ; For Further Reading. Google “The Real Victory Outreach”? Topix

  45. john please tell me what work ethic you learned im curious ??? Also could you give me examples of others who have a good ‘work ethic’ the only people who are employed by the church still collect their dole how ethical is that ?? Your wrong in saying people are not strong enough to stick it out, its weak people who stay I am not disrespecting anyone. They give you an illusion of a covering to keep you safe and this keeps people in fear of leaving.Its another control tactic of VO to keep you there. When a person leaves and continues to live a full and productive life they have more strength than you give them credit for.

  46. No matter how sweet and idealistic you’re trying to portray Dialogue Ireland in your introduction, you’re placing yourselves above the rest of these “poor people” who fell “victim” of what you call cults. You are doing the same as those people that you accuse of mind control.
    Because of your “noble” work and the scaremongering activities of people like you, some members of these new religious movements were kidnapped and confined. Kidnapping is against the law in any country! Yet your type of organizations have use it continuously to “convince” people that they were wrong! Who is the “mind controller” in this case?
    Perhaps you haven’t really tried to “dialogue” with the new religious movements. I’m sure that most of these movements would be happy to share their believe and practices if you would report them objectively without your “cultish” mind behind it!
    I have been harassed myself so excuse me if I don’t leave my details. If you can do it, I feel that I can do the same.

  47. My brother spent time in Vo Dublin while it saved his life and got him clean, it destroyed him in so many other ways… He spent most Tuesdays and every Thursday Friday and Saturday “fundraising” he had a target and if he failed to reach his target he would have to “fundraise” in pubs till very late… He often went hungry.. For a Church Of The Poor they sure have no problem hiding their Lavish lifestyles.. There all on the dole and living of the ” blessings”

  48. my brother is in one of the homes and we are very worried about him

  49. Karen,

    Could you not try and dialogue with your brother, take me to a G.P., help him and bring him into the folds of your family. Just a thought, kind regards.

  50. Many family members whose loved ones left the “Rehab Homes”? of VOD are led to believe by V/O leaders that if their child sibling mom or dad, had not left the “home”? they would not have (“backslidden”) gone back on drugs. if they only knew how much effort they put into their recovery and to be victims of slave drivers in order that their treasured chest be overloaded.. I would like to know what kind of Vehicle are you driving Mr Valdez sen along with” Pastor” Mr Valdez junior, who in your late twenty’s have you ever done a days work in your life, Mrs Marie what vehicle are you driving . There is Time Mr Valdez sen and Family
    John Newton took the opportunity he did not go overboard

  51. For a poor church the cars are expensive… Goes to show how much is fundraised…

  52. Lol I think this page is HILARIOUS its just another excuse for people to pass judgement and gossip and say nasty things. This page should be shut down.
    @anon “love bombing” did you make up this phrase yourself ?
    @ marko 5 years ? I’m also here five years an

    you sound awfully familiar …..

    You are exercising your right to comment anonymously on this site. Please do not make personal attacks on other commenters without evidence. Even if you do guess who another person is please respect their right to privacy. We will editing the following personal attacks.
    DI Moderation

    You fail to mention how you were put xxxx of the recovery home for xxxxx around and aaaa xxx and you xxx fundraising xxxx and then asked to come back !!! I’m a graduate of the home and there is no “punishment ” for not getting target.
    You obviously don’t no xxxx , xxxx,, xxxx who are all graduates they don’t reel people in, these men and women call them up and ask to come in to the home, no one is told ere “in sin ” for not getting target & 28 rules ? Very precise !! You weren’t here for five years you were here for less than two & no one goes in to e home unless they have an addiction of some sort.
    @hope none of them own thee cars , the majority are on finance !!

    @ Angie you have never even been to our church ?? Your very opinionated and misinformed so. Off course we keep records, we are audited yearly, we have permits issued by a Garda station, it’s a Christian Recovery Home, not a rehab.
    If anyone actually bothered to come and talk to us instead of these silly sites we could answer any qs.
    @marlo 1.2 million ? I’m embarrassed for you, how much money do you think people give !! They’d be all driving gold tinted mercs for that amount!!

    If all these comments were true that we are a cult, we mistreat ppl, we make 1:2 million a year , we don’t feed ppl , en how come are homes are Always full & we have a lot of graduates, how come we haven’t been closed down yet?
    Whoever is in charge of this site, why don’t you contact Vo Dublin yourselves
    We don’t worship our pastor we love God and we are grateful for the ministry of Vo for leading us to Christ. We have churches an rehab homes all over the world

  53. If all cars are on finance who pays that….???? Ur on par with the Catholic Church abusing society’s most vulnerable for ur own gain…

  54. And also to the creators of this page, you have at the top that you couldn’t get on to our page, I just typed in Vo Dublin on to the google Abrams there website just came up !!

  55. Dear “jesusforlife”…you are wasting your time offering explanations etc to this blog site. It is totally one-sided, poisonous and virulentagainst all those it attacks. It has such double standards and lies that it is laughable.
    I would expect that in ANY entity, offering itself as a charitable organisation, that there would be….CHARITY….which means being that bridge to bring goodness and help into an area of deprivation.
    Is that what DI does?
    NO…DI is a singular poisonous site managed by morons. So do not try to get justice or fairness here…rather request that this site is closed down and denied any recognition.Keep on doing what your organisation is doing…even if you rescue one person from addiction…it is a battle won. Best wishes

  56. Thank you Angie I wish you all the best to !

  57. @ hope who do you think pay for the cars – they pay for them themselves ! A lot of people in the church work like normal ppl do ! You should try it yourself an so should your brother instead of making things up ! We’r hardly on par with the Catholic Church who have numerous charges against them for pedophelia an who basically controlled country years ago But each to their own we are all the body of Christ and each part of the body has a different function- we all have a part to play. I hope your attending a church regardless

  58. @hope – you could have come up with a more original name ! You an your xxxx were exactly the same anyway making up lies “going hungry ” your brother never went hungry and you were always arguing with ppl in church over your brother & sister !! I suggest you look after xxx xxxx an stick with the church your at and find something else to do with your time rather than post on this an make stuff up !!

    DI Moderation removing children reference

  59. I’ve notting to hide…. Notting I’ve said is a lie.. And please leave 3 innocent kids outta this.. That was low…

  60. Jobs..!!! Like who..??? We all have seen the white envelopes bein passed out on a Sunday… As for my brother why bring him into this….

  61. this is really a shitsite that refuses to publish fairness …but e have captured all the deleted posts…which were the real substance of complaint…well done angie and co for your help…..

  62. @hope you mentioned your brother by saying “he went hungry ” etc
    Personal attacks deleted in full
    DI Moderation

  63. Posted on December 10, 2012. It was under construction then. Do feel free to post the link if it has been updated.

  64. Jesusforlife do you normally talk to yourself?
    The Angie in the comment above is not the one who left a comment on VO earlier.

  65. I don’t go to any churc let’s clarify that… Everything else doesn’t warrant a reply..

  66. @hope ye but you were going to a church but to be Honest explains ALOT !! thanks for clearing that up for me

  67. So you have a site which people regularly comment on about a church an yet you have t checked the churches site since December hmmmmm ok . As for posting a link I would assume your computer literate so type Vo Dublin in to the search bar an their site will come up !!

  68. Nope I attend a service in a different church twice…

  69. This site is a joke ! Your removing comments “stating personal attacks ” but in a previous message there are FIVE people named from the Vo church on your site ! I believe that’s slander ?

  70. ,Quote J,,,,,for life how come we haven’t been closed down yet? (YET)

  71. If you aren’t allowing personal attacks & if people aren’t allowed to name who they’ve
    Guessed then why is my name and my husbands name mentioned in its entirety ? There’s Lynda & graham an carol & Gary’s names & you’ve allowed us to be personally attacked. Also pastor Andy an sister Marie Valdez names as well . Remove my name an my husbands immediately thank you

  72. Jesusforlife:

    You are outed by dialogue for posting from ‘Angie’ siding with yourself and VO; perish the thought! Henceforth you’ll be known for sock puppetry although I doubt any readers were fooled by it. To clarify my position on this blog I am totally against cultic behaviour and VO tick the boxes for indoctrination with intent to manipulate abuse and extort for their own gain. I wonder, have you suffered addiction and what position do you have in Victory Outreach? Do you solicit current addicts on the street to attend your ‘church’? Are you well versed in how to put the fear of damnation into them that keeps them out there begging for all hours?

    To remind you about the growing concern regarding Victory Outreach you need to read the above letter and the following is a reminder:

    “Dialogue Ireland has been receiving reports from victims, health professionals and former members which raise questions about the nature of this ministry. We have also been approached by those working in the courts who are concerned not all is what it appears. They are concerned with people who show up in court from this group.”

    To put the record straight Dialogue does an important job and I am one who has benefited immensely from posting and commenting on this site.

    Take care you don’t lose your head with false ‘power’ given by such a group as Victory Outreach!

  73. @stillclean it’s great your “stillclean” but your nit picking – that’s not what I meant !

  74. @angie I was hardly “ousted ” lol I made a mistake with a posting ! And “sock puppetry” r you living in a time warp ! No one really cares whether you clarify your position or not an whether I suffered addiction is completely irrelevant ! I love God regardless of my background. Copying and pasting what they said at the start of the page does nothing to back your unfounded claims. There has not been a shred of evidence – there are unsubstantiated comments about Vo having pedos in children’s chapel

    That comment has been deleted
    DIModeration

    and making 1-2 million per year ! The word of God is not about “damnation ” because God is LOVE ! We don’t do the things ppl have said here an the site is unfair pols comments have been edited when defending Vo but ppl attacking Vo can name ppl an attack them aswell ! I’m sorry the ppl on this site feel the way they do but it’s just not true ! We would invite anyone to come to our church an leave at any time ! We are certainly not a cult ! Thank you & goodbye

  75. Please do send us the link to that comment and we will edit it. We do not have eyes in the back of our heads, also I do sleep now and again!
    DI Moderation

  76. Now that you have named yourself it is bit difficult to remove it. You have outed yourself!
    In regard to pastor Andy an sister Marie Valdez they are named for the obvious reason that they are the subject of the post!

  77. Well your quick enough to edit posts defending Vo !!

  78. Maybe you should sleep !! It was done purposely – you have to change your name in the search bar to do it !!

  79. Again you seem to have missed the fact that we have the web site for the Church on our site.
    http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/8899/
    Here it is:
    Victory Outreach
    Kylemore
    Ballyfermot,
    01 623 9383

    http://www.victoryoutreachdublin.ie/

    http://www.victoryoutreach.org/

    http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/hooked-on-addiction-by-jennifer-o%E2%80%99connell-sunday-business-post-23-october-2011/
    Victory Outreach has no connection to the Victory Church or
    Centre in Firhouse, Dublin
    By definition as this post was written in December of last year it is now part of our archive.
    Here are some of your links for new people to read
    http://www.victoryoutreachdublin.ie/giving.html
    http://www.victoryoutreachdublin.ie/services.html
    http://www.victoryoutreachdublin.ie/recovery.html
    http://www.victoryoutreachdublin.ie/ministries.html
    As it was in December this link still says under construction?
    A Mission that claims to be ministering to people and still does not have its act together to describe what it does. That was a real own goal?
    Also as we wrote in December the offer still stands to exercise a right of reply:

    We also will provide a platform for Victory Outreach to reply to any comments made. Furthermore we will provide them with uncensored right of reply.

  80. J for life why do you use the Lords name.. You said it is great that I am still clean if you are VOD you are incorrect as VOD does not desire anyone to survive outside of the organization J forlife who drafted you in, your language does not express the mentality of VOD.However the content is equal to the deluded mentality of the slave driving organization

  81. You are confusing two issues.
    People’s right to post comments anonymously. You attempted to guess at who these people were. Then some have named you like Marko as being part of the ministry they find totally unacceptable. You are therefore a legitimate subject to comment on. Your response is to make a personal attack on that person and attempt to breach their privacy. You decided to come out then when you getting a bit of heat and dropped Jesusforlife as your confidential name. If you are not involved with VO let us know and do not wish to be associated with it we will remove references to you. However, if you are in fact involved people have a right to comment on what you do!
    As I said we will not only allow you to comment but will give your own post to reply without censorship!

  82. Jesusforlife:

    Thought you might be interested in this as the impression you give is wanting to follow Jesus:

    2 Corinthians 9.10

    “Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of our righteousness.”

    Paul is talking about receiving donations in payment for preaching the word of God. Since people in Victory Outreach are sent begging for donations without giving a sermon how do they justify using the above bible quote?

    They want us to believe that; “Every financial donation you give is used to change lives with the Good News of Jesus Christ.”

    Really?????? It does not mention anything about cars and weddings. Are you sitting on your backsides waiting for it to roll in? I recommend you read 1 Corinthians and take his advice about not taking advantage of vulnerable people.

  83. Jus to clear up a few things.. Yeah I did argue with people, with very good reason I saw wrong and I spoke up… That’s guaranteed to cause an argument where Vo is concerned.. What I say or write I know to be true.. I’ve notting to gain by lying… Lastly my views don’t reflect any of my family members..

  84. (Nit Picking) what I said relates to that of a cultic mentality. V/O dose not desire anyone to survive outside of its organization it is well established by the leadership that if anyone leaves the “Recovery Homes,” you should pray for their safety, but the prayers are based on them in returning to VOD. The prayers for these unfortunates do not relate to Gods will, as they are so focused on those in coming back to the home., and not just alone in praying for their well being. VOD is not the way the life and the truth.,, The are many ways to recover from drug addiction in the Christian ethos ..
    The idea of any of its graduate members intending to leave and go to another church, is totally frowned upon, moreover If they leave they get no blessing from the leadership. Again I repeat myself in that you are glad I am still clean, How patronising you are, and to fob off my comment of nit picking is to deny the controlling mentality of the organizing, that you now relate to . And I emphasise that you now relate to.

  85. Jesusfor life
    You’re embarrassed for me ??? Obviously you can’t count, do the math yourself. Actually get your calculator out. You say the homes are Full. So here we go…….
    Tuesday’s €250 x 12 people = €3000 x 50 Tuesdays a year = €150,000.
    Thursday’s the same.
    Friday’s €300 x 12 = €3600 x 50 Fridays a year =€180,000.
    Saturdays €350 x 12 people x 50 Saturdays a year = €210,000.
    That’s not counting the women’s home or the Re-entry homes who have the same targets.
    So I’m being very generous here and the total so far is ………€690,000.
    That’s calculated for 2 homes, as you commented earlier all the homes are full, so there’s 4 homes plus re-entry and the women’s home. So as I said I’m being generous.
    So. Jesusforlife my question to you is Where’s it all going ? Would you pay €590,000 to kit out a church in a building that you’ll never own ? The building and the cars are all rented for one reason, you haven’t been shut down but when that day comes Andy and Marie Valdez will go home to their house, their boat and their cars that they OWN in America.

  86. Dear Malko they are not begging. They are fundraising. There’s a difference they have permits and I’d badges. Plus the men’s home have a landscape gardening van and go out every Tuesday Thursday Friday and Saturday. So I think that is good work ethic in relation to your question

  87. John
    Yes they have a permit now for Dublin only but they didn’t have one for the previous 11 years. Maybe you’re a newcomer. A work ethic is created by working for a wage but the lads Don’t get paid. The pastors and leaders get paid off the backs of the fundraisers so if you think that’s a good work ethic I can only conclude that you must be a pastor or leader. The funraisers are basically Slaves. And as for the landscaping van do the lads get paid ??? I’ll guess at NO. But the people who are having their gardens done are paying for the service. Cop on John.

  88. It is not a good work ethic when people don’t have a choice in ‘fundraising’ they are not volunteers either they are voluntold what to do. There is absolutely no learning for men and women who hav to lower themselves in a time when they have to be built up for a stable recovery. It’s disgusting that people will get on here and defend what is happening to people who just want a way out. Andy is a clever man sending people out to use their past to pull on people’s heart strings before they know it they have given money. I hope all around the country people will start seeing this and won’t give to the fundraisers from VO.

  89. I believe there has been enough said on this blog regarding the mechanics of VOD for the time being. I sense they are seeking advice from outside sources, in my opinion they are entitled to do so. I suggest that VOD survivors along with other interested parties to refrain from posting on this site for the moment, and not to take the bait As the auld saying goes {Keep your Ammo for a rainy Day) In relation to the above request I am only making a suggestion. If VOD survivors who have posted on the blog already and intend to post further I am leaving that entirely up to you. However what’s being posted by V/O in my view is the same content coming from a different angle. As Dialogues Ireland has past their one million views last week. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to be aware that there are more than the commenter’s reading the blog.
    Just a Reminder what has brought attention to VOD (Letter on Top Page}
    Dialogue Ireland has been receiving reports from victims, health professionals and former members which raise questions about the nature of this ministry. We have also been approached by those working in the courts who are concerned not all is what it appears. They are concerned with people who show up in court from this group. We hope that the blog will provide people a secure and confidential place to leave their experiences about this group. We also will provide a platform for Victory Outreach to reply to any comments made. Furthermore we will provide them with uncensored right of reply.

  90. Is “stillclean” another proxy sock-puppet of Dialogueireland?
    You really cannot trust anyone these days

  91. Stillclean: I just want to clarify the above comment is not mine and Dialogue will note where it came from.

  92. stillclean

    I suggest that VOD survivors along with other interested parties to refrain from posting on this site for the moment, and not to take the bait As the auld saying goes {Keep your Ammo for a rainy Day)

    Rather strange advice, what we want is for people to tell their story and not allow themselves to be diverted. It is the tension between the real experience of people and the attempts to defend that help bring this forward.
    DI Moderation

  93. Is “stillclean” another proxy sock-puppet of Dialogueireland?
    You will note our reply to “stillclean.” Does that answer your question?
    Also as Angie suggested you ain’t her!
    As you put it yourself:

    You really cannot trust anyone these days

  94. Everything the survivors are saying is true. Believe them. I know all about VO. Yes, it’s all about the money!

  95. The person who runs DI Mike Garde has it in for every religous org in ireland because he was abused by the christian brothers when he was a boy so i woulnt take any notice of this website

  96. That comment is SHOCKING.. Shame on you…

  97. You are daft alright and Hope a friend of yours?

  98. That is no friend of mine….

  99. he was abused by the christian brothers when he was a boy so i woulnt take any notice of this website

    There is a slight problem with this in that I never went to a Christian Brother school either primary or secondary.
    Perhaps you could check the drugs you are on?

  100. “Anonymous” I’m far from daft….!!! I’ve seen first hand what’s going on… People of VOD are always gonna defend it because they have an invested interest init… There is truth to what’s going on… Lets call a spade a spade while no organisation is perfect some try to make things rite instead of pretending its not happening… Everybody who leaves couldn’t be wrong…

  101. Victory outreach are now collecting under the name Urban Outreach, I wonder why they have changed their name- must be all the bad press.. And why are the recovering addicts living in these rented houses not claiming the dole from the recovery homes instead of their family homes- isn’t that fraud, and do Vo declare that they receive 170 euros per week off each addict from their dole on top of fundraising? Where do the so called pastors get their degrees from,what bible colleges did they attend to be certified as pastors?

  102. I am back despite what I stated whether Dialogues Ireland are right in what they said. However I had my own reasons at that time in what I had said; maybe I was right maybe I was wrong only time will tell. Nevertheless I give the benefit of the doubt to Dialogues Ireland as they seem to be the one with the experience of dealing with cults moreover In my opinion VOD fits that description. As for Dialogues Ireland in relation to being a voice for human rights I have reservations in some quarters as for some of the blogs I find depressing nevertheless I do not think what’s posted is for entertainment purposes, however in the long run I believe Dialogues Ireland gives the reader the opportunity make up their own mind .

    Victory Outreach/Urban Outreach?

    The organization fund-raised under the name Victory Outreach until they were awarded charity status under the name Urban Outreach which was around 2006/7… ,.

    Under the Andy Valdez led Victory Outreach. Its method of fundraising began from almost the time he arrived in Ireland around 1997;. So one can take into account the time span of eight to ten years of blatant illegal collecting on door to door and street collections. also the fundraisers were issued with Illegal IDs that VOD produced from their own computer

    Before the granting of charity status to Urban Outreach It was said among the leadership in Victory Outreach that they could not obtain charity status due to its alleged financial discrepancy’s created under the leadership of its previous pastor. This was echoed by Andy Valdez senior
    The name Victory Outreach for the purpose of charity status was transferred to Urban Outreach This was supposed to be done on the alleged advice of a civil servant involved in the area of granting the proposed charity number. This meant Victory Outreach could hold its name as a church and fund-raise under the name of Urban Outreach. .

    However as highlighted above that in the interim years Victory Outreach int Dublin without the knowledge of the significant government department Andy Valdez sen was responsible for illegally fundraising without a charity number and Garda permit.. if it where known at the time to the relevant Government Agency would Urban Outreach have attained Charity Status in the wake of Andy Valdez snr corrupt way of collecting funds .

    The question also remains today is VOD collecting within the confines of their permit and not to mention the infringement of the human rights, of using vulnerable adults, for their purpose of fundraising, and feeding the fat cats of the organization with their riches.. Yes modern day slavery dose exist. I know I am a witness .Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

    stillclean, on June 26, 2013 at 9:15 am said: Edit Comment

    In relation to Victory Outreach and their method of fundraising that I posted on the 21st and/ 22//06/2013 I was wrong to post the contents that I did. As a result, I am retracting what I said, and I am sorry for causing offence to Victory Outreach Dublin

  103. Just to Clarify Urburn Outreach is the rehab home and charity

  104. Is the approved permit not just for 4 single days a year? Think these were known as flag days…..?????

  105. The approved flag days were issued when Urban Outreach gained charity status. Today they are seemingly fundraising legitimately with a court licence but they are using the licence for what they are good at and that is by corrupt means in order to extract more funds from the donor.

    stillclean, on June 26, 2013 at 9:15 am said: Edit Comment

    In relation to Victory Outreach and their method of fundraising that I posted on the 21st and/ 22//06/2013 I was wrong to post the contents that I did. As a result, I am retracting what I said, and I am sorry for causing offence to Victory Outreach Dublin

  106. Today they are seemingly fundraising legitimately with a court licence

    So what is your problem with them?

    they are using the licence for what they are good at

    What are they good at?

    corrupt means in order to extract more funds from the donor.

    What are the corrupt means and what evidence have you for your claim?

  107. When fundraising with a court licence for a prize which VOD are doing. The lines or raffle tickets must be printed by a recognised printer and each ticket and line has a set price. Whereas Urban Outreach fundraisers (VOD) Tout for funds outside of any standard amount that would be normally granted by a court licence.. in other words they are still collecting without a permit, though they have a licence but it is used as a smoke screen, in order to extract funds beyond the normal legal limit.

    The evidence I have is when I was approached by VOD fundraisers on a number of occasions, usually out side of convenience stores supermarkets shopping centres. I listened and examined the method of fundraising that they were engaging in.It was there and then that I witnessed their corrupts means of collecting funds as.in my experience the nature of this method is part of their mentality going back to its foundation in Dublin. . .

    To summarize to run a lottery the tickets or lines must be at a set price On the other hand to collect funds (Flag Day) a charity must use the method of collecting by the use of a tin/bucket the charity must have a permit from a local Garda Superintendent. Though Urban Outreach (VOD} have flag days. using a bucket/tin in the way of collecting.. In relation to the lottery for a prize. VOD are using boards touting for an unlimited donation this in itself is collecting without a permit and the fundraisers are putting the funds in their pockets without the use of a bucket/tin. In V/O terms God sees what they (Fundraisers}} are doing with the funds, However at the end of the day the money goes into the fat cats pockets…

    What I have witnessed in relation to their present method of fundraising is that Urban Outreach (VOD) are effectively collecting without a permit.,,,.

    stillclean, on June 26, 2013 at 9:15 am said: Edit Comment

    In relation to Victory Outreach and their method of fundraising that I posted on the 21st and/ 22//06/2013 I was wrong to post the contents that I did. As a result, I am retracting what I said, and I am sorry for causing offence to Victory Outreach Dublin

  108. What I have witnessed in my time with VOD along with the level of present enquiry s I have made. Outside of flag days Urban Outreach/Victory Outreach have and are collecting without a Permit.

  109. listen to all of the ppl that think this home is great its not its all about money. i was in the home a couple weeks back and i had to leave. they tried say that u have to give Jesus 10% of your earnings in life. They wanted 20euro off us out of our money every week to give to the church. when they came back from fundraising i heard them bragging about how much money they made before 1 o’clock, the money they fund raise goes to there tickets to America and Barcelona and where ever else they want to go to fund raise in different countries. We were to give 140 a week out of our social welfare to stay in the house and there was no food and the beds were falling apart. all the people that are in victory outreach are all on the social welfare and they are better dressed than any people out there with full time jobs. I think this whole organisation of vod is a big money scam and I have proof I was there so believe me and I was never on drugs. This was only last month that I left and I only lasted a couple days. Prison would be a better place to live than vod

  110. When fundraising with a court licence for a prize which VOD are doing. The lines or raffle tickets must be printed by a recognised printer and each ticket and line has a set price.

    You are writing as if we know how this works. It is imperative you explain it for our readers. What is the set price? How is the permit operated? What is legal and how do they abuse these permits. Please explain.

    Whereas Urban Outreach fundraisers (VOD) Tout for funds outside of any standard amount that would be normally granted by a court licence.

    Are these tickets with a set price say of €10 or what? How do they manage to get more than the set amount off people?

    in other words they are still collecting without a permit,

    Mqay I suggest you are not correct in saying they ‘are still collecting without a permit?’Rather it is they are abusing the scheme is it not.

    though they have a licence

    e.g. they are legally doing what they do and have a permit, but they are behind this legality abusing the system? Is that what you are saying?
    Could you answer specifically rather than going onto a new argument. Let us clear this up.

    but it is used as a smoke screen, in order to extract funds beyond the normal legal limit.

    What is the legal limit?

    The evidence I have is when I was approached by VOD fundraisers on a number of occasions, usually out side of convenience stores supermarkets shopping centres. I listened and examined the method of fundraising that they were engaging in.

    It was there and then that I witnessed their corrupts means of collecting funds

    Describe in detail their corrupts means of collecting funds?

    as in my experience the nature of this method is part of their mentality going back to its foundation in Dublin. .

    Describe the mentality and then the method they use!

    To summarize to run a lottery the tickets or lines must be at a set price.

    Explain it please for our readers. What is the set price?

    On the other hand to collect funds (Flag Day) a charity must use the method of collecting by the use of a tin/bucket the charity must have a permit from a local Garda Superintendent.

    Am I mistaken in believing that Flag Days are no longer legal?

    Though Urban Outreach (VOD} have flag days. using a bucket/tin in the way of collecting..

    Is it rather that it is not so much Flag Days as collecting in designated pladces like outside a Supermarket they have to have a permit for?

    In relation to the lottery for a prize. VOD are using boards touting for an unlimited donation

    Do you mean a Sandwich Board? What do you mean by an unlimited donation? Do you mean they are only allowed to awsk for a specific amount by then say ask for €100?

    this in itself is collecting without a permit

    Have you any evidence of it and did you immediately report this to the Gardai?

    and the fundraisers are putting the funds in their pockets without the use of a bucket/tin.

    Have you any evidence of it and did you immediately report this to the Gardai?

    In V/O terms God sees what they (Fundraisers}} are doing with the funds

    In other words they should fear divine wrath is what you are saying, but don’t or what?

    , However at the end of the day the money goes into the fat cats pockets…

    You told us the collectors put it into their own pockets now you say it is going ‘into the fat cats pockets…’ How does it get out of the collectors pockets into the fat cats pockets?

    What I have witnessed in relation to their present method of fundraising is that Urban Outreach (VOD) are effectively collecting without a permit.

    To begin with you told us they had a permit, so it is not that they ‘are effectively collecting without a permit,’ but rather they are abusing the permit system is it not?

    What I have witnessed in my time with VOD along with the level of present enquiry s I have made.

    Part of what you are writing about is a long time ago and so me is what you have researched> Which is which?

    Outside of flag days Urban Outreach/Victory Outreach have and are collecting without a Permit.

    How so? Give us the evidence for your claim!
    stillclean, on June 26, 2013 at 9:15 am said: Edit Comment

    In relation to Victory Outreach and their method of fundraising that I posted on the 21st and/ 22//06/2013 I was wrong to post the contents that I did. As a result, I am retracting what I said, and I am sorry for causing offence to Victory Outreach Dublin

  111. You have asked me a lot of good questions I will respond ASAP

  112. I suggest you number them for clarity and break up the answers into paragraphs.

  113. In relation to Victory Outreach and their method of fundraising that I posted on the 21st and/ 22//06/2013 I was wrong to post the contents that I did. As a result, I am retracting what I said, and I am sorry for causing offence to Victory Outreach Dublin

  114. Thank you for your reply. We will edit your original comments and put this retraction under it.

  115. Another life lost through drugs but victory outreach are just as much to blame with their ridiculous way of dealing with addiction. What hope have people got its a disgrace.

  116. I think the bottom line is that it is a bad practice to have people in rehab on the streets having to collect money to keep their rehab open. This burden should not be put on the people seeking help. These people should have time to deal with their issues and root problems that got them into addiction in the first place. I have spoken with many Victory Outreach participants and have heard the stories of how they have daily targets of how much money that have to collect and if they go above the daily target the extra money goes into their pocket. I have seen first hand how this has negatively impacted vulnerable people seeking help. I even met someone who had picked up a charge sheet because he was fundraising for V/O without a permit to fundraise. That man relapsed.

    There also seems to be no medical detox involved with people going into V/O which can be very dangerous. There are facilities in the country that provide medical detoxification from Methadone, Benzo’s etc. This is done safely and slowly which reduces the risk of people taking fits. I am aware that V/O does not do this and actually practices cold turkey detoxifications without medical supervision. Very risky and dangerous practice.

    If anyone is going to open a rehab centre it needs to be done properly and professionally. Offering people the best care possible. I’m sure that V/O has helped many people but I’m also sure they have harmed more people. I admire the heart behind V/O of wanting to help those caught up in addiction but I cringe at the lack of care given to the people participating in their program.

  117. I agree with your comment Liam. I don’t believe a rehab should be used as free labor to generate money for the church.

  118. I SEE A BUNCH OF THEM ARE HOLIDAYING IN AMERICA NOT BAD FOR A POOR CHURCH..!

  119. Jus to clarify for some.. The comments I’ve left here are mine not anyone else’s.. I will not be used as a scape goat.. If Vo refuse to take my brother back that’s their right but please don’t use me as an excuse… Surely everyone is responsible for their own action and their own salvation..

  120. I came across this discussion in December 2012 and I have followed along over the last number of months. Let me get this straight I am not in anyway affiliated with Dialogue Ireland or Victory Outreach.

    During the last few months I have investigated in my own unbiased way about the Victory Outreach Dublin ministry.
    After attending a Sunday morning service I felt somewhat different and I could relate a a lot to what the speaker talked about that morning. I said nothing to nobody and I walked straight out without stopping or talking to anyone I was thinking about what people had said on here about been sucked in.
    I made up my mind to go back the following week where once again I went in sat down the back and listened to the music watched their videos and listened to the speaker again.
    I could not see any of the bad things that people wrote on here.

    I further investigated various websites and the history of Victory Outreach in Dublin.
    Andrew and Marie Valdez along with their 2 children came to Dublin in1997 from Los Angeles California to Dublin leaving behind there comfortable home, family and friends to move into a house in Tallaght.

    Later on they moved to Portmarnock where they opened up there house to people who suffered through addiction.
    It was and is still a “No Waiting List” policy. The “Recovery Home” what they like to call it then went to Leixlip, Ticknevin, Drogheda and now they have 3 men’s ” Recovery Homes and 1 Women’s “Recovery Home”.
    They have up to 50 residents spread across these “Recovery Homes” and daily they receive calls and are referred men and women from places such as the HSE, The Courts, Irish Prison services and many community based Programmes.

    Upon reading some of the reports that people spoke about on here regarding their “Recovery Homes” I spoke to some of the residents that lived in them and I must say I would never in my life think any of these men or women had ever been on drugs.

    I understand with everything in life there is good and bad and maybe some people had a bad experience with their “Recovery Homes”.

    Another point I might add it is so easy for people to come on to a website where they don’t have to leave there own name or contact details and can hide behind each computer screen. I really think it is something that needs to be looked at.
    This site clearly has to stick to the laws of this country and if anybody has been ill treated by Victory Outreach they should report it to the police and not post on a website that might hinder an investigation.

    I attended this centre on 3 occasions and I could not see any of the negative things on here.
    Dialogue Ireland let these people know in private how to deal with these issues that they so passionately have hatred towards Victory Outreach and the work that they do.

  121. @ Mark O’R.
    You seem to be an intelligent man with to much time on your hands that you have taken the time to go to church services just for research purposes. Aren’t you lucky you were level headed enough to get out before they got the chance to try and change you.?? Did you also know that by talking to the girls who are in the rehab home they would have gotten into trouble for speaking to a man? through your actions them girls were probably up half the night writing out the bible. I also just want to say that you should further your research before you comment on things. I Know 100% that the HSE do not refer men or women to victory outreach as it does not fit into their regulations and guidelines maybe you should read their ethos ? Also 99% of community projects do not mix religion with clients. The addiction field is so much more advanced than anything VO could teach a person, not one person ‘home director’ have the skills to work with anyone in addiction. by your calculations VO would be here 16 yrs did you not find it strange how small the congregation is ? I don’t believe people are on here because they have hatred towards them but to raise awareness for vulnerable people.
    @ Hope
    Your brothers salvation is secure as it was given by God and not by man If you cannot do good works to get saved, then how can you do bad works to be unsaved?
    2 Timothy 4:3-4
    3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. Don’t listen to the lies as none of them have biblical education behind them and are accountable to God for deceiving the ‘hurting people’ they so call reach.

  122. Another bitter person Joey, time on my hands did you ever consider I could be working.
    I talked to the women and the men with permission due to my profession and I’ve actually liaised with the HSE and other community services.
    You say addiction field is so more advanced who better to help addicts then men and women who have been in that position and have found a way out of it.
    I come up against a lot of addicts in my line of work that will listen to what’d I have to say but won’t do a thing about it because they know I’ve never been in there shoes.
    This is continued proof that there is nothing but people with hatred towards Victory Outreach on here. It seems like any time anything good. So said about their organisation someone comes on and tares it down just as quick.
    I’m just sharing what I observed with these people and in an unbiased way.
    I am not taking any sides in this discussion.

  123. Mark you say you come up against a lot of ‘addicts’ in your line of work well whatever that is the correct name for a person who is in addiction is drug user. if your clients aren’t listening to you maybe you need to refresh your skills. The motivational interviewing model has a pre-contemplation stage if your a professional then you know the thought process has it never occurred to you that you did make a change that when they are ready the will move onto the next stage nothing gives me greater joy than to see life changes like this. I don’t think you should be so hard on yourself about not having a drug background because all it does is give you a common ground with the person your working with and if you are professional you have boundaries so that is not brought up as you are there for the person and not yourself so really its irrelevant weather you were on drugs or not to work with drug users.
    Im not a hater of VO but disagree on so many levels of how they treat people as you have really no idea what it puts men and women through, you should be a professional working with people as you learn to emotionally disconnect from someone who your working with to give them the best chance but you cant get that in VO they tell you who you should be and what’s best for you instead of discovering things for yourself. They steal a very precious part of recovery and leaves a person with emotional and mental scars that’s extremely hard to recover from. I’m not one of these people who has a vendetta, I just know what I am talking about. Them directors are not emotionally stable enough to be looking after men and women I know this from experience. You have no idea the impact it has on vulnerable people if you work with people the way you say you do well you would know this already. How easy is it to turn a sleep deprived vulnerable person into a robot as such or better terms brainwashed ?? Going to three church services doesn’t give you any sort of experience of what really goes on there are a lot of people who have left and are in need of professional help and im not talking about addiction I mean emotional and psychological.

  124. Greetings Joey, just in relation to the beginning of your comment the reason I use the word addicts is because I work with people with drug, drink and even gambling addictions. I don’t just work with drug users. And u can use words and terms in counseling but the truth of the matter is people will listen to people who they believe have a genuine interest and actually care about the person they are working with. I am very successful at what I do and people do listen. I’m just stating a fact that somebody who has been through an addiction and who has came out the other side has a much stronger opinion than someone who has never suffered in their lives.
    Also their are a lot of success stories who have came out the other side of their “Recovery Homes”. Two of which where interviewed by a national news paper.
    I believe everybody is different and I know NA, GA works for some people, the HSE programmes work for some people and so on. I know a lot of people who have both good and bad things to say about all the different programmes that are out there.
    I just believe everyone should be given a chance to make there own decisions regarding the different programmes. I don’t agree with half the comments people can come onto this site and hide behind a fake name and write whatever they want.
    Yes there might be faults with this place and other places for that matter.

  125. I’m sorry I totally disagree with you, I have been given the best advice in the past about recovery from people who have never touched a drug and I knew this to and the thing is because the had so much understanding around addiction I really admired and respected them. The only thing anyone who has taken drugs have in common is how to take then each and every person is on a different journey with different personalities and things effect different people in different ways and again I say them directors haven’t the first idea how to handle anyone the don’t know how to meet the person were they are at. I wasn’t trying to show off before was really just saying I know what I’m talking about. They bully people tear them down send them out onto the streets to make money for them. It’s not up to the person in the recovery home to keep the running of the church they are the weak people who need nurturing and love and care. I think it’s a shame that if you are a professional then you would know you need education and skills not something in common I’m sorry I strongly disagree with what you say. People who have been in addiction and enter recovery are still sick in the mind without the proper care and that’s the truth.

  126. I respect your opinion Joey everyone is entitled to share.
    I just have a different view and while I understand there might be bad the good will always out weigh the bad and I believe this is the case with Victory Outreach “Recovery Homes”.

  127. I don’t agree with half the comments people can come onto this site and hide behind a fake name and write whatever they want.

    Just like are doing, but we protect the anonymity and identity of our commenters. Some people take the option to use an anonymous name and others are willing to come onto the blog using their own names. We protect both types!

  128. @dialogueireland I have seen people with my own two eyes write comments that have not one piece of evidence to back up there comment other than what they hearted from somebody else or just to stir this particular topic up. I even refer to the comment that was left about the Director of Dialogue where a person said that he had been abused by someone in a religous organisation. There was said to be no truth in what was written which is why I make the point.
    Anybody can come on to this site and say whatever they want with no questions asked or proof other than what they speak.
    I remain anonymous because your site allows me to not because of any other reason.
    As I said in the beginning I will not take anyone’s side in this discussion.
    I’m jus sharing my own experience and thoughts.

  129. Further proof I just changed my name and can say what I want. This is Mark O’R

  130. This is Mark O’R

  131. I wonder dialogue Ireland if u deleted the majority of the different posts you have regarding organisations on here and re-opened all the discussions fresh with a rule you had to fill in your correct name and email Address and provide proof of your accusations with reports from the local Garda station where these people should be making there complaints known.
    Exactly how many posts would be here.

  132. @dialogueireland I have seen people with my own two eyes write comments that have not one piece of evidence to back up there comment other than what they hearted from somebody else or just to stir this particular topic up.

    Possibly seeing is not what you mean but reading. However, as long as you hold your opinion, allow others theirs.
    It is clear you have totally different views from Joey but we will allow both access. He regards your evidence as suspect. So what….

  133. Dream on, we have your IP address and can tell who you are. As long as you do not get into sock puppetry
    you can use as many names as you like. How do you know they have not gone to the gardai!

  134. Oh did I hit a nerve my bad. So Joey is suspicious do u know him personally or do you discuss things off line or in person.
    IP Adress from a Phone using 3 G.
    Sock Puppetry ?

    I must of hit a nerve so I’ll leave it at that I said what I had to and the proof is in the posts.

  135. @ Mark O R I don’t know anybody from dialogue Ireland personally. But I do see your immaturity now and I understand why you didn’t see the harm in VO. I was confused when reading your comments how a health professional would think it’s fine for none educated men and women to take over recovery homes. It’s fine now you put my mind at rest thank you

  136. This is my argument Joey where is the proof. I’m reading bad and good but I haven’t seen any proof of bad. I’ve seen one piece of proof about fundraising from the courts. I’ve seen a girl write a book I’ve seen stories in the paper of the good 2 lads who escaped disaster I’ve seen them on our national TV station. I reacted yes it was immature but my point remains the same.

  137. Mark… I’d be very happy to sit down with you and tell you Facts…

  138. Mark you are wasting your time you are beating a dead dog. As far as people can see on here there is no good in that place leave it be and stick to what u seen and believe.
    There’s always good and bad in everything.

  139. And my argument is people should not run recovery homes who do not have the tools and skills to support people. What about Garda vetting ?? Anyone in a role lets say ‘care giver’ should go through screening. Why would you think it’s fine to send men and women out collecting for them. They have to serve the leaders it should be the other way around leaders should serve and let the men and women feel love and worth not to be ‘humbled’ for their purposes they use people it’s disgusting. I would never advice one single soul to go there. Just because you confess your a Christian doesn’t mean your living an honest and spiritual life.

  140. You seem to want to put a sock in it. Bye bye. Seems like Surrender outreach!

  141. @ hope: why does your brother want to go back to this place if its so bad u never have anything good to say about the place all you do is name the people and slag them off for helping your brother in the first place and now that hes strung out again u want the people who you’ve been slagging off on a website setup by a man who is just out to make a quick buck by bring down as many religious organizations as he can.
    and if vo is as bad as you say it is why? do you want to send your brother back there, so i ask myself was the place that got him clean for months really that bad in the first place. why not send him to another treatment center if its that bad. i think your (hope) just a mixed up woman that needs just as much help as your brother
    and what iv been told is that your brother was offered a place in a VO Recovery home in England but that not good enough for you, why don’t you go yourself and ask the questions u want answered rather than putting garbage up on a website belonging to man with nothing else to do only stir crap.
    and mikey garde iv copied and pasted this so don’t delete any of this as you say your only looking for the truth and your supposed to be a christian or theologist or whatever the heck they taught you in maynooth

  142. Firstly I don’t want my brother to go back there that was his decision…
    I’ve never named anyone on this..
    The experiences I had with you all was bad.. What people asked me to get them and took from me in Vo was beyond belief.. I shall say what if ya like..?? Yes he was asked to go to England but his family and children are here.. Whom he supports and sees regularly.. Please be assured my issues have bein addressed by others that have come trough the claws of Vo.. I’d stand in a court of law I know the truth.. While u all live in a twisted bubble I live in the real world.. Would half of u still be there if ur rents were not covered and fundraising was not a nice little sideline as well as ur social welfare pavements..?? I’ve text a very senior woman in Vo last week I’m still waiting on a reply.. While my brother did get clean in Vo the question still remains who benefitted more from him bein there..?? Maybe if he had of spent less time fundraising maybe jus maybe he might not be in the position he is in now.. I stand by every word I’ve said I know the truth and the truth has set me Free…. I pray for u all.. Remember On judgement day we all stand alone we will have no organisation or person to stand behind.. And remember Gids grace is sufficient and love covers all… I pray for u all..

  143. yes id still be there because my rent is paid by me and me only i dont live in any recovery home or in any vo home not everyone involved in the church lives in a vo home!!
    OK you dont want your brother to go back there so lets leave at that!!
    subject closed that should be the end of your ranting and raving move on with your life coz i know the people of vo have
    lots of love, i wish your brother the best and hope he gets clean
    hes a nice bloke

  144. If Vo Dublin have so much love Why did Vo Dublin refuse him a bed and blamed me on him losing his salvation.. Why should he suffer because of what I’ve done..?? I shall be no scape goat for no one and I will not be bullied or forced to keep quiet.. If I could stop 1 person from what I went trough then ill never stop…

  145. Most men and women relapse if they do not finish a none structured programme and the ones who do finish and don’t stay a very unhealthy connected to the church relapse also because there is no recovery learned praying and reading the bible doesn’t get you ready for the real world but only to build a VO army.
    @Hope there are plenty of recovery homes out there that would love to take your brother and learn him the things of God without looking for anything in return. See all they talk about is a false ‘calling’ from God and because its been spoke about so much you believe it. So when a person walks away they feel as though they left their calling behind and they only way of getting it back is by going back to victory outreach. vulnerable people believe most things this being one of them they are very good at manipulating and distorting the truth for their purposes
    @Garbage Ireland Why do you think this girl needs to go somewhere is that not a judgement? for only a person knows what’s best for themselves when others get involved confusion starts and this is my point again about VO.
    proverbs 10-9
    Whoever walks in integrity walks securely, but he who makes his ways crooked will be found out.

  146. on a website setup by a man who is just out to make a quick buck by bring down as many religious organizations as he can.

    Would love to know more about the quick buck we are making? Perhaps you know something we do not?
    May I suggest carbolic soap and City Bin to help with your brown waste

  147. hey joey for all the scripture u quote us swear u were leading a Christian life but I know who u really are and know ur living a party life so stay off the Charlie and get ur own life together before giving advice to others
    I think u watch to much EastEnders pal

  148. @ Garbage Ireland I never claimed to be Christian sorry, If I am out partying im not hurting anyone and there are no restrictions on my life so I live as I please and don’t know anybody by the name of Charlie.

  149. Victory Outreach is a total cult! Was in their mens home for 6 months in Los Angeles. They are shady and very sneaky with their fundraising tactics. While I was in the home they collected my unemployment money and would only allow me to have 20.00 dollars a month to myself. While in the ho,me trying to get better they refused to send my unemployment money to my wife and two kids. Bottom line this is a cult and a organization that deals in a very mafia like way. However what do you expect from a leader who is xxxxxx.

    (Amended due to its racist nature.) DI moderation

    Pastor Sonny Arguinzoni. I have so many more stories to share about this group but hey!! Most of us already can see what the leaders of this church are truly like. Stay away from this church!!! There are other Bible base churches that do not behave like they do.

  150. One thing i have learn in my life i have been with VOD over 17 years yes 17 years and i love my church and my leaders that people make there own choices and do what they want no one puts a gun to your head you make the choice to do what you want with your own life

  151. Victory Outreach Ballyfermot is just a money racket- no matter the weather the men and women are out on the streets collecting to fund the lifestyles of the church leaders- I mean come on have you seen the gaffs they have coz I have and have the pics to prove it and thats not counting the house out on Lake Isabella, top of the ranges cars and jewelery and nepotism of the highest degree, what do they actually give back to Ballyfermot? The place is overrun with ‘PASTORS’- can anyone from V.O tell us where these PASTORS went to bible college or who converged this title on them? Also the print buisness , restaurant and creche thats run from there are they charitable organisations as well? How many of your home leaders have completed any training in addiction studies? Is,nt it true that you also claim people are not (Fully) saved if they smoke or continue in certain patterns of behaviour? My understanding of the Bible is that by grace we have been saved and not works- therefore when you confess with your mouth that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died and rose again you are guaranteed salvation, walking in sin will of course destroy the journey but nothing or nobody can rob us of the promises of Christ otherwise the Bible is lying?
    I serve a good God, a God of love , compassion and GRACE GRACE GRACE.. I see so many commenting on how they love their, church, their Pastors their church family and not very many mentioning the one who died a horrific crucifiction to make it all possible for us- Jesus, thats who I love JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS – not a BUILDING OR A PASTOR OR A PASTORS WIFE !
    I love and worship and idolize only God for the scriptures tell us to take no false idols and personally I think this unfortunate congregation are taught to idolize A & M ..V and of course now theirs the Pastor junior, they cant even address each by their Christian names as it makes the leadership feel that bit more superior, so if anyone would like to answer any of my questions I would be extremely grateful.
    May the Lord of Hosts open your eyes the schemes of the evil one, be blessed..

  152. @jesusforlife
    Your wasting your time asking for answers they are that immature in life they don’t know why they do and say the things they do. It’s like ripple effect guilible people recruit guilible people.

  153. I see a couple of them are on a “road trip” to England, and a pastor is of to America… Wounder did they inform their local social welfare office..??

  154. the poor addicts who just want to get clean and pastor andy uses this to his advantage sending them fundraising while he and his wife enjoy
    turkey in america today for thanksgiving! atthanks for giving so we can live in luxery !! maybe he should fundraise himself the mad scammer
    soon enough the people of ireland will see him for what he is!!!!

  155. Been a few times. Not for faith though, but what you all say is true- they’re brainwashed. It’s sad and they’re pumped to the brim with money. I think they have something shady going on and launder it through their Overclocker brand.

  156. Watch primetime on Rte this Tuesday.. The truth will out. Anyone know how to contact primetime, ive some photos they might be interested in?

  157. Also isnt it true that these churches lose their charity status when a buisness is being run from it- as far as im aware their is a restaurant, coffee shop, internet cafe, gym and creche being run from the Ballyfermot site, now if Victory Christian Centre in Firhouse which i know is in no way affiliated with Victory Outreach lost their charitable status for having a starbucks why has’nt the same happened in V.O Ballyfermot- by the way Pastor Andy Valdez senior- lovin the new hair colour.

  158. Also hope you had a blast at Lake Isabella for Thanksgiving while most of your congregation will barely scrape by this Christmas, but still feel the need to buy extravagant gifts for you, your wife and children and grandchildren- shame on you.

  159. Happy Christmas Bobby Cruz aka Pastor Andy Senior..

  160. My experience of Victory Outreach was exactly the same as everyone else who’s ever been involved with them. It’s a very sinister, ambiguous organisation that’s hiding behind Christianity. There is zero love or support shown to any of the addicts who are in the church homes. They are seen merely as dispensable pawns to be used for the leaders gain. Bullying and isolation are common tactics that are used and you are constantly told that if you leave Victory Outreach, God will take his hand from you and your life will be 10 times worse than it was before. You are told that Victory Outreach is the only true church. Pastor Andy and his wife are deified almost above God. After 6 months in this organisation and having raised tens of thousands of euros for them I still had never been spoken to by either of them.
    My heart breaks for the people still involved with VO. They all know that it’s wrong and that what happens there is against God but for their own reasons they can’t find the strength to leave. For a lot of them it’s fear that’s been engrained in them. While Victory Outreach reaches out with God in one hand, they destroy lives with the other. It’s a very sad situation

  161. Loved the primetime report, hope they rot those disgusting people

  162. It is an excellent programme. I can’t believe they got away with it so long nor do I believe that it only happens in Ireland. Even when told there is evidence they still deny it. People’s lives are in danger staying in their premises. I am glad to see that the young man and woman interviewed went on to full recovery.

  163. What a shame Prime time on RTE just ran a program on Victory Outreach that was totally one sided. They “only” interviewed people for whom the Victory Outreach program failed and clearly had a chip on their shoulder. Like the AA of which I am a member you will always hear critism from a former member if the program does not work for them and that’s what happened in ths biased presentation by Prime Time. It has clearly worked for some people, why were they not interviewed to get their opinion ?. It is very eay to knock good works, it makes a good story and because we are a nation of knockers RTE feeds into that train of thought. RTE should run another program interviewing people for whom the VO program worked, this will put a bit of balance into the mix. It is unfortunate though that the Pastor didn’t give an interview, his refusal to do an interview only feeds suspicions.

  164. Fuck em Ger, they’re disgusting people. They’re not happy or recovered, they’re just hooked up to pseudo-religion life support.

  165. I entered V, outreach Birmingham in 2010 and for nine months lived on a diet of 1 tin corn beef, 1 tin sweetcorn(small) 1 tin tomatoes and rice between up to 8 people, each person had to hand over £40/wk for digs and claimed housing benefit at a rate of £164/ wk so works out that they drew in a total of £6528/month.
    The pastor lived in a large house with his wife and daughter and ran two cars and also bought his son a brand new focus and took all the guys from the home to buy it? at times we were forced to fast, to teach us gratitude and other times this was followed by a day where rice with no salt or pepper or any other condiments topped with 3 or 4 kidney beans per person, the pastor always went on about how we shouldnt focus on buying new clothes yet he himself had over 20 pairs of trainers and designer watches, large gold chains and designer clothes
    etc. as punishments we would have to cut the lawn with butter knifes and paint rooms with little kiddies paint brushes or go without sleep for up to 3 days or stay up till 11.30 pm and write 5000 scriptures till finished(we were allowed to go to bed at 3am but back up at 5.45 am. I was made home director after nine months and stayed on for a further nine before seeing through the whole regime, the pastor would allways take the huff if he didnt get his own way and not speak to individuals that he had the hump with (spitting out his dummy at times) also treating people with favour when scripture clearly says otherwise.
    This is definately a money making organisation using GOD as an excuse, dont get me wrong there ARE THOSE WHO DO BENEFIT BY FINDING GOD But many fall back to their old ways due to the lack ogf support and the pastors having their own agenda ie money, they always plead poverty but seem to manage to travel to the states 3 or 4 times a year? when I became director I was given £60/ fortnight to feed 8 grown men, no easy task, this was after much pleading with the pastors wife.
    After an outreach in my home town in Scotland the pastor of the new church there asked me to come and help him set up so I approached my pastor and spoke to him about it and he said if thats what i thought i had to do then that was fine.
    When i went to Birmingham i had to sleep on the floor for a wk that is untill a fellow member of the church lent me a room in his house to stay in.
    I tried to contact the pastor by phone ,txt and going round to his house and he didnt even have the decency to answer me this was after i helped build the interior of the church, fix broken things in his house and also maintain the home with no pay at all, you prob guessed im a builder by now and i spent months slaving my heart out reformiong an old building into a church even building a pulpit in the shape of a cross ( no easy task) but thats what he wanted.
    My time as director was harder than doing the program and the pastor gave me the outline and told me he wouldnt interfere, I remember one particular guy who would wind everybody up on purpose and i had to intervene 8 or 9 times to stop him being beaten up and asked the pastor to move him but because his dad donated money the pastor let him off with murder untill eventually he had to send him to manchester but when i was on a break in Scotland he brought him back, two days after he arrived 3 of my best guys left then another he was then given a chpoice to go to london or leave, he left but returned to manchester 2 month later where he still is he is the biggest sycophant i have ever seen. Anyway enough said the people that leave clean and stay clean do so with GODS grace and not because of V.O it is a slave camp run by former gangsters and dealers to make money from the vulrenable and from the state and should be investigated in depth.

  166. shame on victory outreach what a joke u should b ashamed of yourselfs takin advantage of vunrable people fair play 2 rte exposin yous and your cult

  167. Jmes1;17 the god in whom there are no lights variations or shadows, if the leaders of v/o are creaming of the backs of the vulnerable it will all come out in the end, the reason I use this scripture is because Jesus half brother and the first pastor in Jerusalem was explaining that you might hoodwink men, but you cannot blindside GOD , all knowing all powerful all seeing, so whatever is done in darkness will come to light, I don,’t follow church I follow Jesus, who humbled himself even to the point of death of the cross, so its not about church, I don,’t play churchianity I’m about Christianity and pray that only good comes out of all this, keep the faith Jeremiah 17;5-8, cursed is the man who trusts in man but blessed is he who trusts in the lord ,for he shall be like a tree planted by streams of living water, I pray for peace unity and direction for all involved in the name of our lord and saviour Jesus Christ who divested himself of all his rights and hung on a tree for all mankind, that throughone man entered sin, through jJesus sin was atoned for and we are brought back into fellowship with our creator and king ,,,’shalom my friends your bro in christ

  168. I was in Victory Outreach men’s home in Dublin almost 8 months. I was forced to fundraise and to stay out all day on houses,shops,pubs I mean whatever it took to hit target was done. I was so vulnerable when I went into the home and it took me months to recover and to think for myself, and as soon as I had came round I realised that these people weren’t Christians, they were using Christianity as a way to deceive people to thinking they were Christ like and had the addict’s best intentions at heart. How was fundraising helping people to recover?
    It makes me so angry now to think back at the manipulation that was used towards people who’s lives were already manipulated enough by the drugs that we were addicted to. The abuse that we suffered daily from the public out fundraising or begging was bad, did pastor Andy have to listen to that abuse? ha I don’t think so. However I did meet some nice people up there and I am glad that this exposure will put an end to all the lies being told to the public and church goers alike.
    What’s done in darkness will be brought to light.
    people cannot portray themselves as godly in order to gain themselves, it just is not right. But I’m not here to judge, it doesn’t take a theologian to see what’s going on.

  169. Be aware people victory outreach are back out fundraising and using other charities names. They are now calling themselves war against drugs and based in Blanchardstown.
    Them men and women don’t stand a chance confusing them they are told to be Christians a fresh start a second chance but also being sent out on the streets to lie and deceive people, For greed and power they should be ashamed of themselves for what they do to people in their care and the general public its a disgrace.
    Jeremiah 23:1-2
    “Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!” declares the Lord. 2 Therefore this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: “Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done,” declares the Lord.
    They use and manipulate the bible to very vulnerable people but don’t take heed of it themselves greedy horrible people.

  170. They launder the money through the internet cafe and childcare buisness.also a house has kennels tbat are 15 a night.plus ” donations” on a sunday…. they have screwed us 15-18k a week per house and theres now 4.thats avg 50grand a month fu draisin only.to be a pastor you have to be a bully type and be good at using scriptures to manipulate people. Andy sr is no.1 with gary keogh his errand boy and stuart murphy his henchman.gerard andy jr garyo are all part of valdez’s henchmen. Gangsters with bibles who use vulnerable addicts to be their slaves.they have a bank account in connaught under name urban outreach.valdez does not even have his car under his own name.a few pastors,maybe 4,got him it for birthday.A FUCKIN 40GRAND JEEP?.?! ….on their doles…..andy jr has an audi a4s!!all pastors kids want for nothin….

  171. All the comments against Vicory Outreach sounds like a bunch of disgruntled anti-true christian folk. A true brother or sister in Christ would never write negative comments about a ministry that has been tested to be accountable, honorable, and in the Big picture has produced good fruit all over the world and still does today. I have been studying ministries all over this world and woe to you who have bashed this imperfect ministry and minister who if you really stuck around long enough you would see that their an awesome group. Wake up and smell the coffee, the whole World fundraises to all peoples for finances to help with millions of causes ie: marketers, the wealthy, business owners, banks, industries, its all in everyones faces through advertisements, commercials, bill boards, ……we are all THE vulnerable….. Victory Outreach has every right to receive funds to help rehabilitate the worst of society….because society doesnt care anymore….please GET A LIFE, STOP HATING…… leave this beautiful ministry alone, they are always upgrading theirselves, what about you?

  172. “they are always upgrading theirselves,”

    Do you mean their fundraising techniques? It looks like it.

  173. You reference how Christians should react:
    Try this reaction:
    1 Corinthians 5

    New International Version (NIV)
    9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or

    greedy,

    an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

    12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[d]

    Christians must definitely judge those inside the Church.
    Watch this video and tell me this genuine Christianity.
    Also we know even more than is published here.
    Give us a break………………………..

    http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/victory-outreach-prime-time-special-report/

  174. a true brother or sister in Christ are you serious? anybody who lives in Christ would never treat people the way they do. Honorable and accountable more like exploitation and humiliation that’s what the ministry is built on. victory outreach do have funding from the social welfare it takes most of any persons weekly allowance. It certainly doesn’t rehabilitate there are a lot of people who claim victory outreach have left them with emotional scares leaving people with more to deal with than their addiction alone meaning it does more harm than good. people who get on here and defend VO are just insulting peoples intelligence. All the defending cannot cover up what goes on in the homes anymore.

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