I have had first hand experience. They take vulnerable people and pretend their lives will get better.
You do rituals to put you into the light but this also brings darkness to you like a moth to the flame. If you are not aware of spiritual practices you will become depressed and you life full of more problems than you had before. They pressurise you in taking more course and if you don’t have the money it will come. They issue cheap manuals use cheap or free accommodation. If you add up in a simple course for a day they can make 50k which is ludicrous. I have always believed that Spiritual work should be free or donations only as it segregates people who cannot afford it. I wrote to Gundi personally telling him I had no money and could i come on the course for free. Absolutely no reply. I also asked Gundi if he is saving the world with his rituals etc.
Why didn’t he stop the tsunami in his home town Japan. Simple because they do not have any power they use the same stuff as everyone else occult worshippers. There is only one source out there you either use it for good or abuse it. Their magic etc is nothing new you can read it in all books and obtain knowledge for free. All the teachers who enlist have no life they live for promoting the school. They have no money as they spend it on the school and quite honestly I do not see them happy they are in awe of Gundi like he is God. They do not promote love and their fees are ridiculous for what you get? What do you get? They prey on people. Martina says you must exercise and eat organic foods why then is she so fat? Living wealthy? It is really a mugs game just remember the best things in life are free and if its all inside of you why do need this secret cult to open it for you? If it don’t feel right then it isn’t right. My heart told me something was wrong and that’s what you need to listen to yourself it is a waste of money. And Gundi lives a lavish life with his young pretty Japanese wife whilst his ex-wife runs another cult the 7 Rays School all the same shit as her ex-husband again another charlatan at work. These people have lavish lifestyles don’t think they live in poverty. Please don’t be a mug take it from someone who went there they are robbing you and you may even go insane with some of the rituals they pass through you and they send spirits to watch you!!! You will go mad trust me if you dont know what its about. Its a bit like black magic they know what your thinking and when your down they prey on you – like oh you need a healing, a dna awakening!!! They are messing with your spirit, trust me if you tell anyone normal they will think you are mad and that’s because you are going mad. I know I’ve been there but luckily my spirit kept telling me what there doing is wrong. Trust yourself please. Need any advice contact me? (Address with DI)
Filed under: The Modern Mystery School
A lot of what you are saying is straight on. It is sad to look at the head teachers of the school – who sometimes make up to $50grand in one weekend, still have trouble paying bills, cuz all their money goes to Gudni. Abundance to take classes, but not for the rest of your life? Or a couple years ago, Gudni decided to be vegan, and changed the Mystery School teachings to say eating meat is wrong. …then started eating meat again. After a couple years, I realized I was incredibly happy and fulfilled in my personal life, but that I was constantly stressed over money issues tied to the school. I couldnt do the work I was really passionate about, because that work didnt pay enough to afford MMS classes – so instead of being myself, and doing work I loved, I was struggling at a job that sucked so I could pay for classes. What’s empowering about that? Things smoothed out so much since I really looked into my heart and realized how much MMS held me back.
Very interesting…. So Travis, you choose to pay for a product or service you clearly couldn’t afford and now you blame this organization? You need to act like an adult and stop being a poor victimized child. If I buy a Porche 911 turbo and cant afford anything else including doing the things I love, because all I do is work to pay off the car … that is my fault as a grown adult for being irresponsible with my money and not Porche’s fault. This organization didn’t hold you back… you held yourself back.
Dear Anonymous,
your sensitivity is overwhelming,
You have addressed one element of the above comment, care to offer more?
I will say this: the modern mystery school is not for everybody. It is for people that will take responsibility for all aspects of their life, people that want to transcend their weaknesses, people that want to be in service to the world.
Many people that do not make it energetically then become bitter and blame the school. I know all the master teachers very well: they do not live lavish lifestyles. In this school, the higher you go the harder you work. They are all human and have their quirks, I will honor that!!
It is difficult. It is expensive. It will take a lot out of you. All you get in response is fulfillment, empowerment, and joy.
As for the potency of the work they do, I know many, many, many lives saved. Most of what they do is never revealed and you will never know of it. Part of becoming a ritual master is getting yourself to the point where you can be attacked by those you have tried to serve and still feel love towards them.
To the guy who wrote the initial post, good luck with your journey! I support you all the way. And know that you, YOU create your reality so I invite you to look in the mirror and reclaim some of your power!! You are much more than you know! Love to you.
Don’t give up the day job!
it’s interesting to see that on the threads that have to do with this school, the posts that come across as negative and condescending and defensive are invariably from people involved with the school. The people who seem empowered, well, I’ll rather use normal terminology and say normal, are the ones who left.
Seems more empowering to take responsibility for the misinformed choices one makes in life, and expand beyond that–rather than blame others and participate in mudslinging.
Anonymous, I didnt blame the school for my decisions at all. I also didnt say I couldnt afford it. I said that I had to choose between doing the work I love, which doesnt pay enough to do MMS, or doing work that makes me miserable so I could pay. I made the wrong decision for a couple years before I wised up – now my life has never been better. All the teachers always told me: “the money will come” or “put it on credit” – trying to convince me to live in perpetual debt the way they do. There is nothing empowered about that at all. Empowerment is realizing when youve made a bad decision, and fixing it. It’s funny – as soon as I left the school, I finally got the money I had wanted to take all those classes – and I used it to pay off my only debt (medical bills from a broken hand). The universe provides when it is in your best interest!
@Travis: that’s also interesting, I’ve never been told I need to put classes I can’t afford on credit by any of the master teachers in the school. It seems to me like you might be twisting the facts here. I know they accept credit, payment plans, and occasionally trades sometimes. I have been told that “the money will come,” and it usually has. Sometimes it didn’t, but guess what–when it didn’t–I used my personal discernment and didn’t take the classes.
I would also like to point out MMS printed on the canadian website that many of the programs are very expensive and rigorous…Why would you attack an organization for something that you have been made well aware of from the beginning?
Seems to me it was still your choice. If you’re getting a whole arsenal of modalities that you can start a healing practice or profession from, that really help people, something unusual that not alot of people offer–why wouldn’t they charge for what they feel is valuable? I’ve seen people really have amazing successes.
In my humble opinion it would be an affront to how amazing and sacred these things really are to just give them away to someone. Is that why you are resentful? Because someone wouldn’t just let you take a class you wanted to? If you expect others to just give to you with nothing in return for all the years they’ve invested in this as their business and personal passion, you are expecting them to devalue and dis-empower themselves and enable your poverty mentality. Sometimes they have helped people who didn’t have the money though, I’ve found that when the energy is right and the student is sincerely not just expecting a hand-out, a few of them have found people scholarships, or been willing to trade for what they considered equitable services.
As for the comment in one of your earlier posts, where you said Gudni makes 50k in one weekend–its because alot of people come to his classes. They think what they learn with MMS is neat. Obviously if he didn’t have something to offer, no one would take classes from him and keep coming back. I find it a highly assumptive claim for you to say that all the master teachers are in debt…I have known many of them personally, and most are very comfortable..and through means other than MMS. One of them even owns their own chain of Gyms, One consults for corporations, one is a nurse, one is a computer expert.
anonymous are you paid a retainer to be the Minister of Defence for the MMS? You are really a busy lizzy on all the posts. If you think people are childish for giving their opinion, it seems to suggest you are to keep saying peoples experience was not as THEY suggest. If you are happy in your nappy with the School let it be, or actually reply to the thread
Anonymous: Your argument for MMS and Gudni is exactly the same as those from other people who defend their cult. They are extremely boring to read as there is no real information about the courses themselves and no testimonals from the many many people whose lives have been saved. You spend most of your time attacking other posts and I have a sneaking suspicion that what they are saying is already known to you as genuine experiences; the organisation boasts about getter bigger and this alone will make it very difficult to vouch for their mental stability. Idealistic rambling and a hodge porge of courses does not sound like the way to world peace!
@DI : Which Anonymous are you calling out here? Many others here have also chosen the name anonymous. Since you fail to call out the other serial posters who have also participated in this and other threads… one can only conclude that the only reason you attack us for taking interest in your forum appears to be because we disagree with you.
Your compulsion to Question comes from the right place. We can definitely agree on that one. Unfair attacks, name calling and ridicule however, do not. Regardless of what you might be intimating, I’m not the only nor was I the first individual to visit your site or even this page who has called people out for actions that are both petty and “childish”.
To me, its unjust to not only blame others for one’s issues–but to spread gossip and say things in a public forum that are blatantly skewed by personal vendettas and judgements, I’m sure I’m not the only one who finds most of it distasteful, baseless and alot of it vicious. People who take an interest in this forum deserve to hear the balanced truth. So yeah, as you have openly given me and others that right, we have shared our beliefs and experiences.
People are right to challenge something if they disagree with it, but through fair discourse. The actions taken here very clearly negate the directive you have which is to empower people. Even journalists, if they are doing an expose will publish counter viewpoints to promote a more balanced perspective of the truth. You don’t really allow for that here–so far you’ve only published anything negative that you can find, and you seem all to happy to skew the truth in one direction, while openly attacking anyone who steps forward and states that they disagree with you or with the opinions on this subject in the forum. That seems the opposite of fair on your part. I find that very problematic because presenting things that way doesn’t allow room for other possibilities–which I guess from the looks of it is your whole point.
I realize my experiences and those of others here undermines your white hat stance or painting MMS as the big bad wolf, which is why you so vehemently make personal attacks and disregard the very fair and balanced points that many of us have made here…but I’m simply here to say, armed with nothing more than my personal opinions and experiences that the issues addressed here don’t fit into a box of ‘either or,’ ‘good and bad’–as much as you want them to.
You are free to say what you like. That is my only comment.
May I ask you if you are a part of the MMS?
Your IP address which I have noted is close to certain centres of power in the movement.
I have visited the area. You you confirm that you are not in any way a part of the MMS , an employee or teacher in the group?
Thank you for that last comment. Yes, I have taken classes with them, and have participated in many of their local and international classes held in the States and here in Toronto. I am not currently in any way a certified instructor or employee of MMS or getting paid by them.
Well what an utter load of tosh here hey! You sound pretty bitter and annoyed at MMS. If it didn’t work for you, why be so negative? When people do yoga for example in large groups and centres and pay for the experience is that an expensive cult too? When people pay up do psychology or NLP courses etc is that also a cult?
I’m not a teacher or instructor at MMS but know people that are and ive done a few things with them, at first I’m honest I was not convinced what it all was but about a year later I didn’t do anything and a lot of amazing things started to shift. I’ve always been into healing and light and yoga etc….but MMS brought it all together in a very classy way….and yes true, you can get a lot of what they teach in books and self study but it’s a great energy to sit in it in the classes with the master teachers leading great inspiring program’s.
Nobody has ever pressured me to do classes or healings, in fact out of service when things were not good for me, Martina came to me herself, travelled to London and did not even ask for payment for spending a whole day with me to see that I was okay and did not try and get me to register for anything else.
If you don’t have the money, I’ve been told that, when the times right for people they will have the funds etc….If they don’t, then it’s okay so it just doesn’t sound like them to be so blaze and say ‘oh the money will come’
Luckily I have a great business which allows me to do this work, which only betters me as a human and be in service….IT WILL NOT DELETE MY HARDER LIFE DESTINY LESSONS I STRESS, and so do they…..but it eases up some of the tougher energies we have to experience on our journey on earth.
And if they feel as the previous anonymous said that they would like to work with people who are truly ready they will offer large discounts etc…..I checked out all this, as I’m also skeptical about working with any organisation out there!
And some of the healings I recieved did give me huge energy to lift some of the depression I was going through at the time to move forward on to the next part of my journey instead of wallowing in crap!
So, to say such negative un true things isn’t brilliant!
Wishing you love and light on your path : )
For someone who is so convinced you seem to need to return a lot to defend. #expletive removed!
Was thinking the exact same myself Dialogue. It still surprises me when people are blind to the angst of students when they are abused by those held in high regard. As you know I attended the Tony Quinn Centre and they did yoga classes and NLP in their psychotherapy course. Tony Quinn controlled the structure and material of the classes and they were used to teach his philosophy. This was the main mind programme. In hindsight I know any additional material was slanted towards their interests.
Anon will probably think, what has that got to do with MMS?
There are similarities with MMS and EDUCO. Both SELL the idea that what they do on their courses is unique and never been done before. This, of course, is not true as it has been pointed out in many posts that there are books on the market that give the same information as you get in these classes and eastern religions have know about the power of energy for centuries. Both businesses are based on pyramid selling.Both Quinn and Gudnason are sold as having exceptional powers. Both groups, from what I experienced with EDUCO and students from MMS too, have been abused psychologically and spiritually and also financially by their, what I now consider, never-ending promises they market to fill their bank books and gain control over peoples lives ie control how they think and what they do with their time particularly when they become part of the inner circle. Both appeal to people who feel powerless and vulnerable and sold as having all of the answers in life.
When a current course or seminar ends they find themselves getting pulled further and further into the next course/seminar that will surely make a difference in their lives. Meanwhile, a lot of them are getting further and further into debt. Some are convinced that, if only they could take on the mindset of their guru they will blessed with abundance, but in reality, I would say it happens to few. As Tony Quinn points out to people who attend his seminars, the only way to make money is to avoid paying taxes and to access other peoples money rather than spend their own. It is a cruel awakening when they realise that it is their money the likes of Quinn take over and over again.
Quinn and Gudnason and people working for them SELL the idea that people cannot access their energy without their help. Both are master manipulators who gain control of their followers and if they cannot have APSOLUTE control they get rid of them. Both use psychological abusive techniques to do this as they deliberately set them against each other.
Both are highly adept and teach the use of relaxation/meditation techniques while their students attend/attended courses/seminars and these, as we all know, have a hypnotic effect and are used to relax and manipulate minds into accepting whatever is being said. These are the tools and that great energy feeling is the payoff and what keeps most of you there. Putting anyone into a trance brings an experience of peace and love if that is their aim. A lot of people find it difficult to accept that they are being manipulated and controlled and will become dependent on people who do this. It can certainly stop them from seeing clearly and unable to react against abusive techniques or deal with their problems and this is, more than likely, why so many get into debt. They are not thinking straight. They are set up to have no defence against very well thought out selling techniques that are used to keep them coming back for more, so called, amazing mysteries. You will meet ‘lovely’ people in these type of organisations. Most of them get caught up in recruiting, whether it is courses spoken about in the classes or by students who talk about how great the school is to their friends etc., listen for suggestions made to bring more people into the school. Are you a student or recruiter or both?
Well, I’ve known of MMS for nearly 3 years now and have attended a couple of programmes with them. I know many people from MMS/guides and masters and they hardly ask me to attend seminars, healings etc. I regularly go for hypnotherapy sessions, monthly in fact with a private hypnotherapist and she has nothing to do with MMS, I’ve used her for 7 years and she’s great! I love getting hypnotised and relaxing. Ive seen a couple of very good friends come through tough times emotionally and financially and they regularly do work with MMS one is now a guide….and the amount of abundance she has manifested in the last 2 years is huge! She was in debt prior to working with MMS, not anymore. As for myself, I can’t see myself doing huge amounts of work with MMS, as I have no real desire for it. They don’t say that their teachings are a secret though….as they openly advertise books people could read, and holy scripts (one of them is the bible) to become more enlightened and they are not written by MMS…..their teachings are mystical, yes….because they are from very well known holy scripts which I have studied through out the years myself, nothing to do with MMS. So, I find it laughable that you can say MMS say its a secret!!! They themselves tell people on the website, MMS/Canada one what to read and which movies to watch to become more enlightened on our journey here. I just find all this stuff so odd, that you can say stuff that isn’t even true. They do nothing out of the ordinary….not in my world anyway. I love having headings, hypnotherapy, yoga….and all this I do without any involvement from MMS. As for Gudni, I’ve never met him or have any burning desire too….I feel he has great knowledge and as for my friend who is now a Guide with MMS, she never really says he’s amazing, just that he’s a cool guy, a good teacher and she’s learnt some good stuff, but she’s certainly not in awe of him, neither are the other people I know from MMS. So, I don’t get what all the fuss is about. I just feel they are a community that help people feel better and point them in the right direction to better themselves. If you already know what works for you then you don’t really need to be a part of any group do you? Unless, you like being part of a group, then you can join anyone, including a church community, support group, whatever works for you! Are these also cults then too?? I think people should just RELAX and enjoy what feels right to them, whatever that is ; ))
Oh and also, after reading all about ”The MMS recruitment team” they haven’t done a very good job with me after 3 years have they! I only attended 2 programmes, I had a good feeling after attending them for sure….and then their main european master teacher, Martina came to my house when I was going through a pretty tough emotional time, and advised me to go on holiday with my friends to Malaga to relax and rejuvenate, NOT attend one of their programmes lol!! So, their recruitment is pretty poor don’t you think? Given, the emotional, vulnerable state I was in back then! I don’t have financial issues either and she knows that, as I run a very successful business….I should of been a perfect recruit for them…? My own money, emotionally vulnerable, and I didn’t even get an email telling me how ”my life would change” if I did a program. I have been brought up by my parents to do prayer rituals, meditation, yoga etc….so all that is a normal part of my life anyway, I don’t need regular programmes with MMS to bring that into my life. But I really think you should be careful when posting incorrect info on how they ‘recruit’ emotional, vulnerable people and then abuse them, its really incorrect information. Im always telling people to go to my best friend’s yoga centres, as they offer amazing yoga and meditation, so am I recruit for her and her company? Careful, what you say, as people need outlets and groups to relax and if MMS or my friend’s yoga centre feels right to them they will spend time and money doing that. If it doesn’t work out for them, and they are not happy then unfortunately all the negative stuff will come out like, ”they were so expensive, charged me loads and it did nothing for me…” etc….I hear this from many yoga/spiritual/healing centres. Everyone should find something that is right for them and leave it at that. By the way, I pay thousands a year (along with many other people) to be a member at my friend’s yoga centre in London, and if I want to train to be a teacher will have to pay several thousand pounds more….now is that also psychological and financial abuse? But I feel great after practising at her studios! Oh well…one fine day hey we will all be happy doing what works for us, rather than complaining about what doesn’t!
Sorry about the late reply. No I am not exaggerating or twisting facts. I was told on may occasions that if I couldnt afford a class, I should get a credit card to pay for it – they also told this to many people I know. They spent hours trying to convince me it was a good idea to put myself thousands of dollars into debt, receiving no practical training in the process. I would never call the classes rigorous – maybe for the old ladies that make up the bulk of the school, but not for me. I kept going, expecting there to be more, or for it to finally get good, but I was routinely disappointed by the mediocre quality of the classes. Please stop making assumptions about me – all of your arguments seem to be about stuff I never said, or even thought. And no, I dont think that classes should be free – only affordable and practical. MMS is neither. People keep going because they are addicted (look at the lives and behaviors of many of the older long-term students, and you will find them as much or more troubled then the average person – it’s all a show they want you to believe is real).
I have experience of Martina and others coming to my house or at events run by the school. The answer to every problem ever mentioned was a healing, activation, chord cutting etc from the school. When people were genuinely ill I never heard anyone say you should see your GP or consultant about that. One person was so ill with a serious infection and cancelled their health insurance while doing healings with the MMS and yet paid out thousands to attend an event in Japan. They were writhing in agony at times on the plane to get there. You see they were told of how important it was that they be part of the MMS classes and events and sucked it all up. I don’t fully blame the MMS, people make their own decisions and have to live with the consequences but when normally ordinary folk are behaving in this way you have to question how their normal decision making capacities become so skewed.
Travis and Dave:
Exactly my point! The use of relaxation/hypnosis/meditation in groups like this is very subtle. The over use of right brain activity has the affect of interfering with decision making. One of the signs of this is confusion, which by the way, is another state of mind that is easy to programme and it does not surprise me to hear that there are long term attenders whose lives are no better and probably worse than the average person.
The previous post from Anonymous is very clear about how she has been taken in by it. She has accepted other people taking over her life. She is very willing to pay out thousands to these people and will probably consider doing the same herself and ask for the same money from others if she so ‘chooses’. She is on good terms with Martina so it would not surprise me if she felt compelled to post her ‘positive’ experiences and downplay the extent of influence the school has in her life. This is very typical of someone ensconsed in programmes. She will continue to do this until she takes note of feelings of distress caused by the longterm effect of involvment with certain practices, or, maybe she is already aware of it and taken advise to cut back on MMS programmes. Who knows but herself.
Anonymous’s post does not take away from the many genuine posts sent by others to have a totally different experience with the MMS and it is high time the school was shown up to be what it is; a money racket. Their lack of caring for the mental and physical health of people who attend is criminal!
Would also like to just add, that there are real genuine healers out there – just not in MMS. There are many case studies (easily found on Google) of shamans healing all kinds of illness – including cancer and paralysis. Not s single practitioner in MMS has ever done that. They are not healers, they are salespersons. And yes, their deception will often keep people from getting genuine help for problems because they are tricked into paying MMS instead.
I find it very difficult to trust other healers after mystery school because they said their way is the only sure way and demons can work through different channels, like people in your personal life and certainly others you allow in like healers. That said I went to a lady recently because I needed some confirmation about a person I was about to let close to me who I really wanted but deep down had reservations about. This nice lady confirmed what I needed to hear from looking at a pic of mr woman and substance abuser, then she wished me love and she didn’t charge me a cent. Not that I go to psychics all the time but I knew I was about to make a mistake with mr chameleon who was so charming everyone else in my life was smitten. I’m glad I can begin to rely on healers when I need them :) most people are good, especially women working alone in cheerful homes who don’t charge an arm and a leg and don’t try to get you to come back or take a whole bunch of classes. Btw, that evening I had the great experience of being able to help a man whose family was stranded on the side of the road with a flat tyre. I live in a notoriously dangerous city but I could look in the man’s twinkling eyes and knew I could trust him because I had trusted myself. There was a lovely synergy that helps me know I am recovering from my cult abuse :) S xx
@Angie:
Basically what you have implied is that they are extorting money from people and that its one big pyramid scheme.
Just wanted to clarify that It actually works more like a franchise.
….in that once you become a teacher after you’ve paid tuition and attended the programs–you profit completely from your classes and healing work, and you get to use their name, no one makes any money off you once you are a certified teacher. They used to charge yearly “Teacher Alliance Network dues,” which annoyed alot of people and so they have recently stopped the practice altogether.
Niether Gudni or any of the Head people make any money off of any individual’s or groups earnings, other than people who have been referred personally as healing clients or students.
If they did, this forum would have like 5000 people posting. Also they don’t really have paid employees.
Also…
MMS is not a scam, nor is it EDUCO. You are blatantly twisting the truth when you obscure empirical facts with generalities by starting your sentences with such phrases as “groups like this.”
To anyone observing, and who has the patience to read your posts, it just looks like you are trying to skate around the fact that you actually have no personal experience with MMS.
Considering the facts, I would say just from my own experience and from what others have posted here and in other threads that your comparision is way off base.
Interesting that you are taking great efforts to slander them just the same.
@ Angie,
Also, Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t negate the credibility of their personal experience–its THEIR experience.
What you are doing is called “poisoning the well”. Its a common propaganda technique many politicians and lawyers use in their arguments to discredit an opponent through bringing attention to any pre-judgements the audience might have while dodging the real debate and facts–(in this case the assumption being made is ‘positive feedback about MMS equals brainwashed cult lemming’)–and this action constitutes the very definition of being unfair.
I would say that because you have no real basis for comparision outside of your own biases towards organizations that use network marketing, that your posts are the ones where the credibility might be questionable. And I personally find it rather flawed claim that just because one organization has unscrupulous business practices it automatically means they all do.
Truthfully Minister for defence The Modern Mystery School. Do you get a retainer for each comment you leave on each post?
As usual there is nothing in your post that presents an opportunity for “dodging the real debates and facts”. I have nothing to do with MMS. I never claimed to study in the Mystery School. I am not interested nor do I need to attend or practice rituals as they are man-made and purely to focus attention on a preferred outcome etc., I have outgrown the need for pageantry. I understand that groups form because of a common interest. I have nothing against this. However, not all of them are harmless. I merely point out the similarity of their scams that permeate ‘groups like this’. Questions need to be asked when anyone who showed no previous signs of being reckless with money suddenly have the need to pay for MMS courses or EDUCO seminars as if their life depended on it regardless of debt accumulation and, for some, a mental breakdown. Like many who are part of these groups you choose to ignore these FACTS. Blame the victim.
Truthfully, I say to you there is very little difference between them. I have read Messages of Gudni. It reminds me of the ‘philosophy’ Quinn put out years ago to encourage a false sense of reality and create a special path for his ‘devotees’ that lead to servicing their ‘saviour’. Both see the conscious mind as a hindrance to gaining the ‘knowledge’. Thinking is discouraged when focused on being a ‘light’ and providing ‘love and peace’ in the world. I also find them extremely boring so you must forgive me for not delving into the mysteries of illusion.
As for “poisoning the well” – it’s cult jargon to avoid giving intelligent answers.
It’s old hat and on it’s last legs. There will be such a clamour for plane tickets you need to book NOW. Adios!
@DI: No, I’ve already told you truthfully my relationship to the school. I do have ties. I have taken classes. I too was deeply involved. I’ve never hidden that. I’m no longer involved with the school for many reasons, but I’m still friends with many people in the school. I came on to this site because I think what people have printed here are misrepresentations of the truth.
That and I have a problem with people who persecute others for having unusual beliefs. Paganism is still a four letter word with most people, and I’ve been a highly involved activist. While I think that what Travis and Jim have printed here are fair concerns, I truthfully feel that much of what others have said I felt was imbalanced, unjust, assumptive, dismissive, inaccurate, and just plain mean and vindictive.
I dont think that engaging people in a healthy intellectual debate is wrong, especially when its a controversial topic where personal experiences and veiwpoints differ. A provocative dialogue helps people arrive clearly at their own truth. Thank you for creating this opportunity for us with your site.
@Angie,
I find it really funny and hypocritical that you call my posts and the posts others that you have called nonsense, “boring” and “old hat,” when post after post you print redundant novels filled with tons of logical fallacies and repetetive generalities, most of which you’ve yourself as much admitted here have nothing to do with the MMS.
Its very presumptuous reasoning to agressively label something a “cult,” and then say to people who disagree that their answers are “not a real answer” because they’re “just part of this cult.”
Actually that’s the VERY definition of poisoning the well and it just further serves to reveal the strong biases on the part of the blog (especially when condoned by the moderator)!
“Poisoning the well” is highly documented and intentionally misused logical fallacy, and it is a form of ad hominem attack. Its a shady way to undermine the impact of a person’s points. It redirects attention away from the debate. And it is something you have intentionally used to try and target me specifically using the fact I am a serial poster like you (some of the time even when the posts weren’t even mine) while parroting your personal biases, and persecuting people for having strange beliefs.
Honestly, I think any counter point presented to you, because it doesnt validate your prejudice, would be boring for you to read, because so far any counter point presented at this forum and ANY experiences from anyone here that have obscured the blatant projection of victim and abuser, you’ve ignored them or invalidated them in some way and have gone straight for the jugular.
All of this when you’ve never had any real exposure to this organization….So excuse me for finding your posts ignorant presumptuous and close minded!
I have the right as does everyone here to debate what they feel is faulty assumptive and problematic.
Now I’m all for healthy debate—but how does mudslinging encourage the truth to come out? Or a balanced arrival at an answer? If me as well as others disagree, why not ask us why?
My educated guess would be that since you’ve already shown you’re not interested in hearing what we have to say–you are less interested in the truth and more interested cherry picking facts to support your claims–mostly to serve a need to make someone wrong.
Its true that Gudni is a very very odd man. He’s a flamboyantly eccentric guy. Do I think he’s a strange guy?…I know he is. Were we encouraged to worship him or anyone else, or do people follow him? I don’t know how they were doing things before I came to the school 5 years ago, but from my personal experience, NEVER.
Its also true–the subject matter, the philosophies taught are controversial and don’t fit in with most people’s views.
I AGREE with you and others that fair questions have been raised. Maybe MMS prices SHOULD shift and be more accomodating to people. But that still doesn’t excuse personal responsibility and lack of self-management. Pointing out this careless descrepancy in logic and people’s attachment to histrionics, shouldn’t be confused with a personal attack.
All fair criticism aside, I feel that the word “cult” is a label and an abusive derogatory slur that is being mainly used here to persecute and criticize people’s spiritual practices, and is used in conjunction with a messy pathos to manipulate the truth.
When I was with the school, I NEVER saw extortion. Do I feel they are price gouging? For some classes maybe, and I have experienced a little overkill on the upsell of new classes, but mostly they are charging what they feel is fair. That to me is worlds apart from the blatant unethical behaivor you imply with EDUCO.
But I’m not sure that having exhorbitantly expensive tuition and an agressive marketing strategy alone would classify them as a cult and that is where you and I mainly disagree. I feel that while they do upsell their classes, what I noticed with me at least was that they were never outside of ethical perimeters. I made the choice to be there until I felt there was nothing else I wanted to learn.
I’m pretty clear on the empirical facts, my own personal truth, and I came here and have truthfully shared my experience. I’m sorry you and others cant accept that and that you feel the need to invalidate my posts and make me and others who have shared here and who don’t agree out to be the enemy. We’re really not the enemy, we just don’t buy into the belief that the mystery school is a cult or a scam because we’ve had differing experiences.
You are entitled to have your opinions on what I write. I agree there is room for healthy debate on the purpose of MMS. It is long overdue. We need to question the people who run these schools and allow the students give their opinions on how the subject matter they study has benefited their lives. We also need to listen to students who have been distressed about the subject matter and how it affected their lives.
My opinion is based on observations of similarities between Gudni Gudnason Tony Quinn. I know some of you totally disagree with my method of exposing their scams but, since we live in a democracy and have the right of free speech, I will endeavour to clarify my reasons for pointing out these similarities.
Both of them disregard legitimate complaints which shows a total lack of responsibility for the effects of their courses/seminars. Both admit there is a magical content to what they do and teach. They delude themselves and others into thinking they have the power to change the world. Gudni admits he is ‘fighting’ negative forces. He also admits that there are teachers in his schools who are not properly trained and, in turn, are not qualified to train students as they attract negative energy. He explains away, in one fell swoop, the very damaging and negative effects the content of his courses have on students by blaming teachers and then goes on to claim to be the only one who has the lineage and training necessary to do rituals that won’t attract negative energy. Seemingly there are very few in this world with the necessary training to tutor and bestow certification of the myriad of courses he sells. The ultimate mystery he dangles seduces some people into continuing with courses in the school. He does not reveal the ultimate mystery ‘prize’ for lifelong service until they are well and truly committed/indoctrinated. He’s on to a nice money spinner there.
Tony Quinn is a megalomaniac. He also talks to his ‘devotees’ about being positive rather than negative. The ‘negative’ people are rejected simply because they question what he does and want to know why the promises he made to change their lives, and which they paid for, do not come about. Unfortunately, many experience the nasty reaction of Quinn and his workers as their behaviour sets off a chain reaction to perceived negativity and, in some cases, has become very abusive towards individuals who look for answers from Quinn. His shops and gyms are not making a profit but seen as useful for recruiting people.
‘Students’ of Quinn’s ‘philosophy’ never manage to live up to his expectations and his ‘dream’ (scam) of the evolved human has never reached fruition. According to him he is the most evolved person on this earth. He continues to charge huge amounts of money selling ‘amazing breakthroughs’ that entered his mind while he sat on his **se surrounded by luxury paid for by borrowed money. Part of his promise is a ‘life of abundance’ and since they will be able to do what he does after the seminar they will surely make their money back. Does this sound familiar to students from MMS? The subtle con keeps the money flowing into Gudni and Quinn’s pockets.
The craftily written ‘Messages from Gudni’ covers all the bases. Those who are questioning his life are said to be living in “negativity and judgement”. He approves of and clearly points out that “It is the one in the arena” who works and toils that is acceptable to him. In other words, he tells his ‘devotees’ to ignore ‘negative’ and ‘judgemental’ people and just get on with their work. After all, contracts were made and cannot be broken.
Even though he speaks out against people who were trained in MMS he goes on to say: “Don’t support a system that breeds evil and fools people into a false sense of security and light. Choose instead the Rocky Mountain Mystery Schools’ true lineage under the guidance of Gudni Gudnason and RMMS leadership. ” He continues to encourage people to attend the schools even when the teachers, according to him, are not trained properly.
He also writes:
“Remember I told you all that you would wander in darkness, you would be misguided and that I would lie to you to get you of the path, this is what I promised you in the beginning. It is interesting that you now judge me for the things I told you I would do. Instead of doing your job and fulfilling you contract you choose negativity and judgement. Predictable to say the least, my dear humans”.
According to the above paragraph it would seem that Gudni has kept his promise. By the way, what planet is he from?
As many of Gudni’s mysteries will remain mysteriously hidden there is no legitimate basis for discussion on the final outcome of transformation of his mythical world.
Beating this dead horse again? I sincerely hope I have made myself clearer and I will also point out that I have no desire to persecute you or anyone else in MMS.
I was in the school. It is certainly a pyramid scheme – I saw that from when I first started with them. And money from most classes goes to Gudni or the Toronto team (I think something like $150 from the $650 initiatory class goes to Toronto). Also, they require $500-$1000 “tan” payments each year otherwise they basically kick you out of the school. (they say it is to recertify you, but they teach you nothing new, and it is a joke). Then you send your clients on up the ladder to higher up teachers and Gudni – everything about it screams PYRAMID!
Anonymous, the truth has set you free. Lets home many others will get the message.
Actually they are no longer collecting TAN.
@anonymous 2 above: You twisted the facts a bit so I wanted to clarify a few things.
Empower Thyself is the only class, where a portion goes to the school directly They have 2 year round office employees, also that money goes towards event expenses, and towards supporting the organization with expo marketing, etc. If the rest of the six hundred goes to the facilitating guide. Also, they don’t “kick people out,” they just won’t recertify them to teach officially with the school until the next time recert is offered again. Its definetly not my favorite thing about them, but that hardly qualifies them as a Pyramid scheme. Even if it were, strictly speaking numbers, those profit margins would be skewed in favor of the Guides. With any other class except ET, you do recieve 100 percent of the proceeds from your own classes.
Heres the link, Gudni and Dave Lanyon (Gudnis mini-me in toronto) claim that this knowledge is passed from King Solomon. (btw i was a member for a few years before i left) They claim that Gudni is sent from an old school from (1900′s) called “The Golden Dawn” and Gudni tells every1 its an invite school and impossible to join unless u have100k to pay. A little history here, the Golden Dawn was created by Mr. Mathers and 2 of his peers, who where all Freemasons and Rosecrusians, they created a lodge where they could teach and practice Magick). So i left and a few years ago i got accepted into the Golden Dawn, and also am a Freemason now. The only contact Golden Dawn had with Gudni was to ask him to take down copywritten symbols Gudni put on his old website when the school was called Rocky Mountain Mystery school. So I felt like i was completely lied and taken advantage off by Gudni and the whole Modern Mystery School umbrella. Even my FM brothers most never heard of it, and others told me to be careful with these ‘counterfit’ operations. Basically Modern Mystery School from my understanding (being a member for over 3 years and climbed the ranks) isa ‘counterfit’ of an occult ‘chapter’ of Freemasonry/Rosecrusianism, in which Freemasonry/Golden Dawn/ and the Rosercusians DO NOT ENDORES OR RECOMMEND. This is my experience and thank you for letting me share, I leave it up to the individual to make up their own mind and make up their own decisions.
Man, I remember watching the guides do training…. They had to bring 10 paying clients to their teacher ($650 a head) and 100% went to the teacher training them (about 8+ people were doing this at once, so 8 guides x 10 students x $650 = $52,000 that they earned, but gave 100% to their teacher instead. Not a pyramid scheme? Really? I saw 2 people get kicked out for smoking weed after investing thousands of dollars, and multiple people get kicked out because they were too poor to pay for TAN. I also watched them put every guide on “probabtion” because they didnt sign up enough new students for the Empower Thyself class….. And $150 of each Empower Thyself class goes to the INT team to print out a plain, black and white pamphlet that costs about $4-5 to produce….. And they still have to pay for their own marketing (even tho you claimed that money goes to marketing for them – it actually goes to the people youre paying!).
And ya – MMS is ripping off the Golden Dawn, and unethically making money off of other peoples copyrighted material and work (they even include lots of directly quoted material in their pamphlets and study guides).
as anyone stopped to consider “Anonymous” may be GUDNI !!!!!!!!!!!
Bella,
It’s a nice thought but highly unlikely. Unfortunately there tend to be a lot of people that use the blog who use the name ANONYMOUS. There are likely to be multiple contributors on this and other blogs using that name.
While it is entirely posible that GUDNI does make comments he would likely see this as another example of the way that darkness works in the world attempting to destroy him and the MMS and working to prevent MMS members becoming the magnificant spiritual beings that is their calling.
I have attended to one of those classes, I think anyone with no background of examining one self and life, might fall easily into their teaching, in the other hand, it is easy not make a fuss about it, because,
1- the material and teachings are mediocre, we can see that from other comments and from the guy who is supposed to be a master.
2- It truly is a pyramid scheme mixed with religiosity and self help book
3- It haven’t been commented, but at least the one i attended it was a massage place, so I think that it is the way of getting the people to follow up their teachings, which they have an specific branch for healing.
4- Lots of placebo
5- their main point is, feel free to believe it, what works it works, (and then they throw every kind of religious charm into the air.
I think a lot of people commented very well and in depth about how they work.
From having experiencing first hand, I can say that I was not very impressed about the whole thing and I was actually disappointed, their knowledge on theology and occultism is laughable.
Truth will come out in less then a month… their entire ‘faith system’ is based on the “veil” dropping on december 21, 2012 at 11:11UST
Where demons and angels will pour through portals and invade earth… i wish i was joking kiddies, this is their faith! God bless them and have mercy on their ignorant souls.
Anonymous (immediately above)
MORE PLEASE. I can’t wait for DEC 21. Whats the story behind Dec 21 thats other than the Mayan connection?
@truthfully a little way up on the franchise system. It is true statemnt that the profit the teachers make, once they’re met their basic living expenses, will all go toward mms classes? I venture to say yes so the “supply chain” is closed. All the money goes back into the school. neato
Hi,
I very very recently did this class (less than 5 days ago) and even as I was going through with the actual initiation I knew that I should just turn around and RUN…but I didn’t. And I regret it. In the blog you mentioned that it brings in darkness. I haven’t practiced any rituals since after being initiated and I def don’t plan on doing so ever again or ever doing anything related to the MM school. I’m afraid that I’ve let negative spirits into my life. What’s your take on your experience AFTER you got out of this ‘lifestyle’?
You havent let any negative spirits into your life – that is thinking along the good/evil lines that MMS tries to brainwash you with. Distance yourself from them, and surround yourself with good friends – and you wont need to worry about evil spirits or anything. I was in the school for 3 years, and have been out for 1 year – I’m happier now then I have ever been, have no evil spirits around, and am happier then I could ever explain to have finally distanced myself from that crack-brained cult!
Ya i broke free of that evil cult (Rockey Mountain Myster School aka Modern Mystery School. Gudni Gudanson) which chapter (area) did you belong to? I was from Toronto.
Interesting you call it evil. What did you see or do to make you feel this?
Reason i say Evil is because thats what it is…. they use the typical Bait and switch scam. First they tell u this is an off shout of a secret society the golden dawn, which is a lie. As im an initiate of the golden dawn and also a freemason. Then they tell u to spend insane amounts of money because the end of the world will be on dec 21, 2012 and that date has passed and nothing happened, so they lied even more… the list goes on.. and on…
Anonymous Feb 15th above.
I think we all were aware of the DEC 21 thing and the multiple explanations for the end of the world, change, transition, new paradigm etc. It would be great if you had the time and could detail the list of lies that goes on and on. The greater the exposure the greater the awareness for anyone entering the school.
I can mention a few lies. They say their lineage is 3000 years old, and that the Golden Dawns lineage is 3000 years old – the Golden Dawn is less then 200 years old, and the mystery school was started in the 90′s. There is no one in the school before 11-12 years ago except Gudni.
Along the same lines – the LBRP is their main banishing ritual that they use all the time, and they say it is very powerful and dangerous – and only learnable if you are a ritual master (which costs a minimum of $10,000 with pre-requisites). The Golden Dawn was only a public outer order, and the first thing they taught their students was the LBRP. According to Golden Dawn sources, the ritual is not very powerful, and is only useful for beginners, or unimportant rituals.
They say Carl Jung was a Golden Dawn initiate – he was not.
They say that basically every celebrity was an initiate – almost none of them are (they claim the Beatles, Sting, David Bowie, Leonardo DiVinci, Paracelsus, Pythagoras, Hermes, Issac Luria, Jesus, Buddha, Dali Lama – all despite the fact that these people have little in common, and their spiritual beliefs and practices often contradict each other, and contradict MMS teachings).
They say they teach traditional Kabbalah – they do not. Almost all the info they teach about Kabbalah is wrong – they dont even use correct translations of the Hebrew words, or really any traditional Kabbalistic practices at all.
They say they are healers, but I havent met a single one who has actually healed anything (I’ve met hundreds of MMS students/teachers).
Basically – anything about the history of the school is completely fabricated.
They teach and hand out printed copy-righted material – claim it as MMS teachings, and charge you out the ass for it.
They claim they dont need to be accredited as a school – but actually, they were rejected.
They claim to be a school – but they have no tests or standards unless you count being able to afford their classes.
They say that the Dali Lama is the true head of the school, and there is always rumors that he is going to send lamas to help with their more public events – but there has never been any hint or evidence of support from the Dali Lama.
They say they do not teach dogma – but most of what they teach is dogma.
They say that they honor the traditions of others, then continue to slander and bash those traditions.
They tell you that you need classes and healings that you dont need.
They say their healings work – but they do nothing.
They claim to be the best form of magick education – they are the worst Ive ever experienced.
They paint pictures of themselves being abundant and rich, and successful… But if you get to know them, most are in debt because of the high class prices (even most of the head/master teachers).
They say you will become more abundant – the opposite is usually true.
They claim to be warriors, because they do a phony “warriors of light class” once or twice a year – but most of them are middle aged soccer moms who would cry about squashing a spider.
They claim that they are stopping evil, and that they need you to help them – but they are the real evil.
This list could easily be 20 times this long……
To the above comment: you are 100% accurate.
Annonymous: It is to your credit that you saw the scam before you were enticed into taking more courses or taking them seriously. Unfortunately, many of the students have not had the insight to form their own opinion about MMS. I would hope the numbers who do courses at this school have diminished although I would like to hear that this is actually the case.
My experience after being in the school for a short while, and knowing many people still in the school, is that the numbers stay about the same. Enough new people get pulled in to replace the people that leave….
Theres a saying, “Theres a sucker born every minute.” and that is why my friends The Modern Mystery school is still in business. kinda like Kevin Trudeau and his Global Information Network wanabee secret society.
Poor people, may God show them all a light away from deception.
To Anonymous: In reply to your comment “Theres a sucker born every minute” I find this comment to be lacking in understanding and empathy for those people on a quest for spiritual answers. Do you consider everyone who makes a mistake or does something they later regret a sucker? How patronising to call them” poor people and may god show them a light away from deception”. What god whose god? It is in the name of god that people are searching for answers and in your post you are suggesting that only your version of god has the answers.
It is the people who are dishonestly running these types of organisations that are to blame not the honest people who believe them. When are people going to start looking at things that the dishonest operative is not a hero for ripping so many people off but a criminal that should be brought to justice for false advertising, fraud & abuse of trust etc. There is inherently something wrong in a society where criminals are seen as heroes.
hmmm. . . six months into my own experiences with the Modern Mystery School, I admit to having wondered about some of the issues that have drawn criticism in these posts. What has impacted me more though is the compassion and far reaching support I have received while making a very rough transition into a higher level of being. My first Guide does incredible work around the world on behalf of the light, but I still feel her checking in on me ( a rather inept one of so many others in her care) and responding with compassion, generosity and humour to my own small, often self-centered struggles. The people I meet at the School touch me with the goodness of their hearts.
This website comes from Ireland. One of the most truly good-hearted and kind women I’ve met at the school is one of your own. She is a Master Teacher and Guide, and probably more as well. Be proud of her. Trust that she is not greedy or stupid or brainwashed and blind. The Modern Mystery School may not be beyond reproach, but they are doing good work. Let them do it and go gently elsewhere if you are drawn else where. So much good work needs to be done to bring about Shambala. Lets give all our energy to our own serving.
J:
You cannot convince me that you have attended this school for six months. You are already brainwashed into using their language and this alone tells me you have attended for some years if not one of the ‘teachers’ of a group that has all the signs of being a cult. You may be convinced/brainwashed/indoctrinated but, in reality what you do is abusive and totally useless and makes no difference at all in this world accept to manipulate and distort perception.
J, you are talking about Martina…. She is just as brainwashed as the rest of them, and also way to invested in the school to leave, even if she admitted to herself the school is bullshit. I was in the school 3 years – it is definitely bullshit, believe me!
Taking peoples hard earned cash for fake healings isnt “lightwork”, and even the term “lightwork” should put up red flags that this is a person who wants to do good, but isnt willing to do the real work of learning a real healing practice. You are not a healer because you took a weekend workshop, or even a week or two of training here or there. Real healers train and study for years before they start their work. MMS doesnt heal people – it steals their cash by selling them “fluff.”
Anonymous I want to second you post regarding the length of time and study it takes to become a real healer. There are different modalities but each of them take as you say years of hard work and study. It seems to be the fashion at present for unqualified unaccredited “Guru’s” to teach healing courses in a few days for vast sums of money.
I think maybe we met two different Martinas. Likely you didn’t have an opportunity to meet the other guide I was referring to either. I’m sorry that you are struggling.
I know some healers whom you might approve of because they work for free since their living is earned in other ways. Two are my mentors. They have never been involved with a formal school, but their spiritual journey also brought them to a place of struggling. We have to face our own shadows before we can stand in the light–on any spiritual path. This is just a mechanical fact of the process. You don’t need a school to do this, but you do need courage and love for yourself and others to come through.
Like you, anger is one of the challenges I’ve struggled with. Once, before I started looking for training, I experienced rage as a red horse that I was invited to ride. The experience only lasted a few seconds but it got my attention. There are choices we make that have consequences. I was angry at someone who’d caused a great deal of harm to me and to my young child, but that doesn’t make the anger-approaching-hate wholesome. If I had gotten on that horse personification of rage, it would only have ridden into darkness. Your anger at the school could cause you more harm than any you feel the school has inflicted. Go and be a healer in the way you respect. We need commited and passionate healers.
J
J
It sounds to me like you are very vulnerable at this time in your life. Please do not let harmful actions caused to you and your child by someone else to seek help in the MMS. I joined a, so called, healing centre, namely Tony Quinn Health Centre, and they have, so called, healing massage.
Believe me, there are very few genuine healers out there, however, you take on much more than you seem to be aware of at this present time. After what you have been through a kind word is sufficient to draw you into, what is now known by experts to have all the hallmarks of a cult. They will tell you a pack of lies with a sweet smile on their faces and it won’t be till a few years down the road you will realise you have made a huge error in judgement by putting your well-being in their hands. People have suffered in so many ways and have lost everything they owned because of it. Step away and do research. There is plenty of material on Dialogue site to give you a better idea of what goes on. Please read as much as you can before you commit to this cult. In fact, take a year out because it is the wrong time to attach to anyone particularly when they make promises that are too good to be true. I wish you the best in building a life for yourself and your child. For the sake of your child, do not think that MMS are the answer.
Thank you for your care and advice. You seem like a sensible and kind person. You will be glad to know that I got appropriate help for my child and I from Children’s Aid, lawyers etc. I only joined the school two years later when i realized I needed training for some emerging spiritual gifts. I just told the story about my experience with anger in the hopes of helping the person who responded to my post. There was so much anger and bitterness in what he wrote. His points could have been perfectly accurate and I’d still be concerned on his behalf. The energy behind his words was very troubled.
I think the Mystery School is rather evangelical about encouraging their classes and I’ve never been comfortable with a lot of marketing, but I will say that the quality of the classes I’ve taken has been high and the spiritual experiences I have as a result of my work in the classes feel authentic.
I’ve done graduate work in Christian theology and I come from a family of parents who both explored other faith traditions. What I’ve learned at the Mystery School really does seem to be authentic spiritual training that is consistent with long-standing tradition. What may be missing is a pastoral care and counselling component to support the journey of people who often arrive at spiritual training during vulnerable periods of their lives. Spiritual transformation has a history of triggering very challenging periods of inner struggle.
I have questions about how much responsibility lies with the person offering teaching and how much belongs to the person asking to be taught. I will say that I know of MMS Guides who have freely given their time and energy to supporting some very vulnerable seekers, including working with the seeker’s families and psychiatrists in supportive, non-interfering roles. This does not mean that there may not also be cases that were less ideal.
I will certainly take your advice and continue researching and being open to dialogue. I also train with teachers who are not affiliated with a particular school and work with a spiritual director who came out of a mainline church tradition. This diversity helps keep me from getting locked into a single, blind track.
Good luck to you. May both our journeys be blessed!
J
Thank you for your kind reply. As I have gone through a similar experience to posters on this site I am inclined to believe them as I also knew nothing about the group I was with till it was too late and, let me tell you, the only thing they were interested in was my money. You tell a very different story to other people I read about in Dialogue and I cannot reconcile the two accept there are ‘guides’, as you put it, who are also under Gudni’s influence. I have gathered from information given that there are rituals performed by Gudni and other people he trained that have very strange effects. I would say they were mentally destabilising. There are also daily rituals to fight off negative energy and the strange belief they are fighting the negative energy in this world. Some are convinced they have a special role to play yet what comes across to me is they lose far more than they gain and without the mind-set induced by Gudni and others they would fall apart. As with all cults, there are courses that seem above board, however, I cannot forget the horrendous story I read sent by a spouse whose husband was totally taken in by MMS and was seriously in debt because of courses. Their marriage was ruined. He was still involved at this time and close enough to the inner circle for them to have an impact on his decisions which were totally geared towards making money for the school.
If people work for nothing Gudni must have a particularly strong hold over them. Tony Quinn’s EDUCO cult had people who worked for nothing and, by the way, they also sold the same mind-set of getting rid of negative thinking and ‘making this world a better place’ one of his top workers even boasted about working for free and encouraging others to do the same. How strange she would work for nothing when her ‘boss’ owned millions and all of it came from his workers and people paying for classes and a healing request system that he must have made millions from. He had one of his workers dig up their ill-gotten gains from where they had buried it and smuggle it into the country he now lives in as a tax exile. They only ones to benefit from the false belief of ‘abundance’ are the ones who sell the idea. All they prove to me is they are prepared to lie to the vulnerable and even the greedy to change their lives by doing the same as they do. It is very sad when good people fall for this type of scam!
J – you are making a lot of assumptions about me. I am not suffering, and I am not angry. And I never said that healers should work for free – I only said they should have some real experience and training instead of a weekend workshop. Everything you are saying just makes MMS and it’s students look worse……
I dont speak out against the school because I am angry at it – it has nothing to do with emotions. I think the school is evil, and almost everything about it is a lie. Gudni lies about his own credentials, the school lies about it’s origins and lineage, and everyone in the school lies about the effectiveness of the classes. I actually worked alongside some of the “master” teachers, until I realized most of them are in debt to Gudni for Mage classes (4x a year at $4-5000 a class, plus airfare and hotel in Japan), and that the “master” teachers didnt even know basic info about Golden Dawn, Kabbalah, and magick in general – the school is laughable (except for the part where they rip off innocent costumers).
So could you please explain what the relevance of having studied Christian Theology has in regard to this issue? Normally, those who have studied at that level have developed the skills of evaluating different views. So are you a Christian? Would you not then defend your faith? Or have you like your parents moved from your own position to embrace the Mystery School? It is not at all clear what you are trying to say?
Using your post graduate skills as a theologian give evidence for the assertions above please? Which long standing tradition? Spell it out with peer reviewed evidence!
If you think MMS teaches a long-standing tradition, then you havnt researched the history of magick. They teach new age spirituality, which is a modern blend of western and eastern ideas, watered down and altered till they mostly fit together, following the traditions of other new age groups like the Theosophical Society and Golden Dawn. Their version of Kabbalah is so dramatically altered that it hardly resembles traditional Kabbalah (they dont even have you read the traditional Kabbalistic texts, but instead recommend new age ones like Dion Fortune). If they were traditional in any way, you would have to know Hebrew and Greek, as well as have a strong foundation in Torah before learning Kabbalah (that is the only way to learn traditional Kabbalah – you can learn new age Kabbalah without that, but it is a totally different practice).
At the furthest, MMS can trace some of it’s teachings back to Eliphas Levi and Agrippa – but even they arent that old. And those two are known for changing some traditional practices to be more modern, or to fit systems like Kabbalah and alchemy together (they contradict each other unless you alter them). All of MMS’s material comes straight from Golden Dawn and Theosophy, tho further simplified so it’s easier to sell. Heck – most of the stuff they teach is copyrighted – I even received printed out materials that was all just stolen straight from Golden Dawn authors – they sold me other peoples copyrighted material with the original copyright still on it!
Thank you for that erudite response, hopefully we will also hear back from that Post Graduate Theologian, but I am not holding my breath. As a theologian myself and one interested in the field of religion I find what you say rings too, but let us wait to hear back
J I don’t care if you have studied theology or origami, you seem like a very sweet, innocent person and all I can say from my experience with this cult that if you don’t open your eyes you are in for one nasty ride with these people. You are sound like exactly the kind of sweet person they will take advantage of and abuse spiritually and psychologically, never mind financially. I was ritually scapegoated by these people and there is another reference to this on this site where a guy wrote in to say his friend who wasn’t even really gay was pressured into having gay sex with an older man by gudni and then kicked out (expulsed). In the literature of how sacrifical priests work, this is textbook and it sounds even worse that my situation because it seems gudni created the ‘sin’ in a guy who didn’t even want to go there. I think you should be on high alert my friend unless you want your life snatched away from you right under your nose.
But I want to write about another experience I had recently with an ex-member of mms which speaks to the kind of insidiousness that exists around this cult. This woman was quite high up in the school 3rd step RM and I know she left suddenly and I contacted her specfically because I was looking for information on ritual expulsion as practised by the school as I am interested in this subject in both the judaic and western mystery tradtions. She replyed to me to say no she had never been exposed to ceremonial magic for sacrificial rituals and that ‘no being of light’ would do this. This comment was supposed to make me think she was my friend (in fact ‘beings of light’ have been doing sacrifice ever since god commanded moses to do so….) She said she was a “high priestess, kabbalist and ritual master” (this is the party line ie cult speak) and that she detected negative energy around me and that she could help me but she didn’t know how many sessions it would take. This seemed to me a snapshot of how msytery school recruits. Find the person’s weakness (I’m angry and fascinated by sacrifice), then come with some cult sounding authority crap and undermine the person’s self-worth … make them think there’s something wrong with them and that they are surrounded by ‘demons’ or negative energy or evil spirits (when I got back to her and called her out or it and told her to stay the F away from me, she warned me that evil spirits can impersonate others…). And it was just fascinating to see this play out because in fact this is how the school often operates only now I saw it in the light of day and I was appalled, both by the rediculous simplicity of the ploy and by how easy is it to fall for it … particularly if you have been taken in by a few of their courses first…
and as for you you DI, why are you attacking this vulnerable person who is here openly looking for information and could use ministering more than anything else, to use your parlance? If does not seem like you were asking about this person’s theological studies in good faith but for some other reason? I would would expect better from a Christian, but maybe you were just having a mo like anyone and of course you can just delete this comment. It’s your perogative.
J
When I read your advice to a poster, for instance:
“Like you, anger is one of the challenges I’ve struggled with. Once, before I started looking for training, I experienced rage as a red horse that I was invited to ride. The experience only lasted a few seconds but it got my attention. There are choices we make that have consequences. I was angry at someone who’d caused a great deal of harm to me and to my young child, but that doesn’t make the anger-approaching-hate wholesome. If I had gotten on that horse personification of rage, it would only have ridden into darkness. Your anger at the school could cause you more harm than any you feel the school has inflicted. Go and be a healer in the way you respect. We need commited and passionate healers.”
I have more questions that I suspect will not be answered. What school, and who were you involved with when you “experienced rage as a red horse that I was invited to ride”? Have you not realised yet that people who promote MMS have no qualms about messing with your mind to keep you there? Think long and hard about this. I understand why Dialogue would react the way they have because most of your post reads like an advertisement for the school and it is too easy to give a story with nothing to back it up particularly when it comes to education in what you think are relevant areas that you hope gives credence to your stance on how great the school is. We have heard from too many posters to the contrary.
Anonymous:
First of all congratulations on having the insight to see through what that woman you posted about was doing. I also took the same view as you and thought J was in need of support and strong advice to move away from MMS, however, anyone who has attended with any intelligence will see the attempt to sell the school.
Because we respect the privacy of the person who who leaves a comment and we have their IP address, this was in fact giving them an opportunity to actually answer some questions. There seemed to be a logical problem in the argument and the person was using their academic qualifications as a justification. I would have thought that was clear? Asking a question seems in your book to be attacking a person and what makes you assume they are vulnerable?
I will use your reply to her to get a sense of your views:
It seems you seem to have now also got psychic ability as you are now also able to address my motivation.
We certainly will not delete your comment, but it is clear you do seem to have some problem with Christianity by this reaction. We will have a better idea about this if J replies won’t we. By the way this site has nothing to do with Religion but with influence. Best Wishes DI
@DI One does not need psychic abilities but a simple grounding in English to detect derision, sarcasm and academic one-upmanship. A sincere, eager heart would ask another of his background in the context of respect with the view to sharing and learning, or would likely choose not to speak. I realise your background is academic but as moderator of this site which brings you into contact with people with so many varying beliefs, I would prefer to see the dialogue coming from a place that respects such. This is what I meant by Christianity as I see the best Christians I admire as coming to inquiry from a place of profound peace, a deep knowingness in their spiritual faith in Christ, and love. I do not know what it means to you.
Specifically, I am pointing this out in the context of a spiritual seeker posting here. To me it does not matter where the roots of the western mystery tradition come from or tit for tat (we all know gudni plagerises… but then we’re all plagiarists on one level or another aren’t we?) People who to grow to become interested in the western mystery tradition generally tend to be spiritual seekers. That’s what motivates many people to get involved with this cult. People who are drawn to cults like this are by nature spiritual, looking for experience rather than mental information, just like an athlete is naturally athletic or a scientist is naturally interested in deduction by the scientific method. This is 101 stuff right? And it is the essence of the tradition to understand the dual nature of the mind and about how our egos operate on the level of mind, just like we can point to the basic tenants of other faiths, Buddhism or Christian, as many of the cults on this site are for example to gain insight in how to best help cult abusers. So by your response I feel you show a very poor understanding of where abused adherents on this thread are coming from, and also a lack of respect of others.
By the same skills that I discern your motivation, which I’ll go out on a limb and call obvious, it’s clear J is honestly inquiring in good faith. In my view, he hasn’t been completely brainwashed by hypnotic techniques yet. He is clearly openminded and sincere and he is open to some common sense comment. He’s asking for it. In my view your comment, particularly where you say something like‘so have you left our faith like your parents?’ speaks volumes. A. He didn’t say anything like that and B. Our faith? For all WE know, J is from Timbuktu. Your JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ is pretty meaningful, tho Id’s have to speculate to really determine what unlies that, and then I could validly be accused to psychism.
You have used the word Christianity as a barb twice now. This is not a competition. In my understanding of the Christian faith a man would offer witness, and offer genuine counsel if asked, as well as simple love and prayer.
In your case, perhaps dealing with the really brainwashed other techniques might be called for right? Perhaps this is your purpose. And such techniques would need to be used only in a state of high awareness with deep clarity, right? But in my view J is pretty lucid and so far still capable of making up his own mind of it’s pretty straightforward.
Hi Angie
“ however, anyone who has attended with any intelligence will see the attempt to sell the school”
As you well know for people locked inside cult thinking, it has nothing to do with intelligence. People in the cult are brought to a state of FEAR which renders intelligence peripheral. This woman is no longer with the school btw and hasn’t been for years. She wasn’t trying to sell the school, just to put money in her own pocket etc. And I’m not saying all the people in the school operate this way nor so blatantly, although I did experience this kind of thing in the school.
Ie, just as a fictional example: “I had a bad dream people were chasing me last night and I was afraid.”
Common sense: Why don’t you go for a surf?
Good spiritual guidance: There are many interpretations of dreams you can choose from but maybe forget it and see how you feel next week. Maybe you can find some peace by lighting a candle or going for a walk in nature, and know ultimately that only love is real.
(I could also add, bad secular counselling and good secular conselling here for example. Eg. You will have to come to Freudian therapy for 7 years to understand your Id. Vs. if you keep having more dreams, you could journal them and if you feel you’d like to talk more about them, come and see me.)
Cult member: Oh, you need the cord cutting and negative energy removal (to get the demons away from you) and you need the ensophic ray healing (which will link you to God and only I can do because I’m authorised by the hierarchy of light) and and and and. And the problem is, and this was my experience, the healer might say to you, just as an aside, I sometimes get bruises from fighting the negative energy in my dreams. So you leave with your eyes like saucers and fear gripping your heart, and your intelligence, if you mean the part of you that acts to protect you and keep you safe and sane, is kind of inoperative at that point.
I shared the experience because it crystalises the modus operandi, of, I think, spiritual abusers everywhere. In this case, I approached for her specific information and not therapy or healing or anything else, so I wasn’t at all vulnerable. But she is a ‘healer and therapist’ and it’s just horrific to imagine these kinds of spiritual abusers out there and people in crisis going to them for help.
@DI out of interest, can you tell us what the ‘
flaw’ in J’s thinking is?
Anonymous
Dialogue is able to trace the poster’s ID. When DI comments on a post with specific questions I understand there is good reason for it. Why has J not replied to Dialogue’s enquiries?
On reading the first post I felt J needed help to open her eyes to the evidence from others who attended this school, instead, she replied with an answer that was an advertisement for MMS. No matter how sweet J’s post came across I smelt a rat and, possibly, there is good reason for it.