New Kadampa Tradition – NKT
Dublin’s Tara Buddhist Centre is part of one of the West’s fastest growing New Religious Movements, the New Kadampa Tradition. The group, which was founded in only 1991, already has 1100 centres in 40 countries worldwide, a fact that it proudly proclaims on the organisation’s homepage. What the publicity doesn’t tell you is that the NKT is at the centre of a bitter doctrinal dispute with the Dalai Lama, who has referred to one of its central practices as the worship of ‘a spirit of the dark forces.’ What you are not told is that many of the senior figures in the organisation are also the organisers of a bitter anti Dalai Lama campaign which has resulted in a huge media campaign and bands of angry protesters trailing the Dalai Lama around the planet while he preaches his doctrine of love and compassion. Below are four websites that contain a significant amount of critical information about the NKT.
http://info-buddhism.com/
http://www.newkadampa.com/
http://www.nktworld.org/
http://www.newkadampatruths.org/
Those interested in reading how the group has responded to widespread criticism might also want to take a look at http://www.newkadampatruth.org/ which lists the groups individual responses to numerous allegations and which might equally be entitled, ‘Why the NKT is not a cult’. Have a read, and then decide for yourself.
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http://www.meditateinireland.com/
Anon Buddhist
Filed under: New Kadampa Tradition - NKT
It is a shame you have not examined the issue a little more deeply and that you have just assumed that the Dalai Lama is correct in his assessment of the New Kadampa Tradition and its practices. In reality, this tradition faithfully practices the Gelug teachings of Je Tsongkhapa as passed down through generations of masters, including the Dalai Lama’s own religious teacher and great master Trijang Rinpoche. We certainly do not worship a “spirit of the dark forces” — this is, to put it simply, dreadful slander of our Dharma Protector, whom we rely upon as a Wisdom Buddha.
The whole clamp down on the practice of the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden is dirty Tibetan politics that has led to widespread misery among the Tibetans in the exile community in India due to his ban of their religious practices. Your readers might want to check out http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org to see what is going on over there.
To balance out your one-sided criticism of the NKT (and inclusion of every anti-NKT site out there), your readers may also be interested in taking a look at the history of how the NKT became known as a NRM or cult. There is a series of articles on that here: http://www.newkadampatruth.wordpress.com
So begins the huge tirade of pro NKT comments that appear on the internet whenever the NKT are criticised on the web for their cultish activities. Whether this is part of an organised system of dealing with criticism (as manifest in the pages the correspondent points to) or simply arises as a result of the huge number of naive individuals with no knowledge of Buddhism that the group have managed to ‘convert’ is not certain. Either way, what will ensue is, yet another, lengthy tirade of expanded versions of ‘the party line’, designed simply to put the innocent off the scent and convince them that the poor old NKT are simply victims of anti cult persecution borne of the ignorance of those who do not know the ‘truth’ of the situation. Sorry, but the fact is that, despite your protestations, the world outside the NKT knows increasingly that all you are is the continuation of the reactionary and fundamentalist elite that dominated the Tibetan political system and was predominantly responsible for the death of Buddhism in the glorious Land of the Snows and whose sole intent is to dominate Buddhism in the post diaspora Western buddhist world (quick, set up another group!)-study the history of the politics and religion of Tibet before you try to sell yourself off as the persecuted purveyors of the only real truth to have survived for millenia in the mysterious land beyond the Himalayas. Truth has a habit of catching up with the dishonest and it seems your time has come!
Yes, this lot are the real dirty tricks brigade-they attack the Dalai for mixing politics with religion (his job) by standinjg outside his teachings with placards, alongsde chinese demonstrators, calling him a liar. Ur…mixing politics with religion-duh!
All the demos last year were organised by them then they claim they are completely separate from the political stuff-I thought Buddhists werent supposed to lie?Well done DI, nip this cancer in the bud before it spread across our glorious isle
I am so glad you have put your stuff about these on. If you look at the stuff they do, for sure they are dodgy. Also, they bombard ANY critIcs with loads of properganda-Look at the sites about them. Loads of it. I bet you this page will hAve loads of angry stuff from them in no time at all. POWER TO YOUR ELBOW. WASH OUT THE POISON!
There is no point arguing with you, Nemesis. Your comment is shockingly full of inaccuracies.
As for responding to criticisms with facts and the truth, we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t, as far as you’re concerned. You’ll never listen to a word we say in our own defense as you are blinded by prejudice.
However, for those with an open mind, there are enough balanced and neutral observers out there who are increasingly discovering that something fishy and dictatorial is going on with the Dalai Lama’s politically-motivated ban of Dorje Shugden. Check out the French documentary http://www.france24.com/en/20080808-dalai-lama-demons-india-buddhism-dorje-shugden for example, or the Swiss documentary and other documentaries that are linked to on this page: http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/dorjeshugden28.php#2
@ wisdomsword
Being someone who knows next to nothing about NKT and the Dalai Lama, knows nothing about the history of Buddhism and knows practically squat about this entire topic, your comment nevertheless set off some alarm bells for me.
Your ‘defence’ didn’t really defend anything. It cried persecution, did some attacking of someone you perceived as an enemy, denigrated those who hold opposing points of view to you and your group, applied rhetoric in place of argumentation and generally seemed more concerned with garnering support than actually refuting claims made against you and your group.
Whenever I see the following language (which I have highlighted below) used in place of an actual defence or in place of any argumentation it makes me think something isn’t quite right. To call a comment “shockingly full of inaccuracies” without pointing out a single one is strange:
I know people who have passion about their particular faith or faith group who would react angrily when challenged. It is almost a natural reaction. But to use rhetoric in the way you have is simply unnerving. The documentaries you offer are not even relevant to the charges that have been laid against you and your group, but instead are attacks against your perceived enemies.
Who defends their group in a genuine way by completely avoiding the relevant criticisms only to denigrate all and sundry whom you disagree with? I’ll leave that question hanging.
This for example:
“the world outside the NKT knows increasingly that all you are is the continuation of the reactionary and fundamentalist elite that dominated the Tibetan political system and was predominantly responsible for the death of Buddhism in the glorious Land of the Snows and whose sole intent is to dominate Buddhism in the post diaspora Western buddhist world”
What does that even mean? It has no bearing on anything the NKT is or does.
Also, themadhair, it might be better if you were to follow your own advice and not engage in judgmental rhetoric against the NKT given that you know “squat” about the situation. How can you stand on your soap box and judge others when you don’t know anything about the background and so on?
What do you mean by this?
“The documentaries you offer are not even relevant to the charges that have been laid against you and your group”
Are you being disingenuous? Can you really say this given that you know squat about the situation? Those documentaries explain very clearly why the NKT has been outcast and called spirit worshippers etc because we also rely on Wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden, as have generations of Gelugpas before us.
Sometimes tone does not come over on emails. I was not feeling remotely angry or upset when I wrote the comment above. Weary, perhaps, but also genuinely hoping people might want to follow up by looking at some of the background to the slander of the NKT. What is so wrong with defending ourselves against such slander? Why does that make us angry? I don’t think it does. We don’t have to be doormats just because we are Buddhists.
like I said-here comes the NKT PR team in their damage limitation capacity-Watch out for the properganda!
I remember seeing film of Tibetan monks carrying weapons when the Chinese invaded and thinking how shameful it was and how much it indicated the degenration of buddhism. I get exactly the same feeling when i read all this politcal stuff from the NKT and the people who bother to waste their time arguing with them. Shame on all of you-your mind games are destroying one of the few beautiful things left in this increasingly ugly world.
As for the NKT, i think the best thing you buddhists could do is pray fro their poor lost hellbound souls. Their anger and hatred is everywhere on the internet and there is no doubt where they are going
@wisdomword
That is what I am talking about. I make a simple comment explaining why I thought your post was odd and you proceed to denigrate me for engaging in “ judgmental rhetoric against the NKT”. I never made a single comment regarding the NKT, I never made any claims or accusations towards them – I addressed your comment and your comment alone.
To be frank, lose the persecution complex and stop perceiving everything as an attack or an act of prejudice. Or maybe it is your intention to try and turn everything into an attack?
As I said before, I have little experience with this topic but your posts (including the one you made under the name ‘Jimmy’) make very uneasy.
I think there is a difference between defending oneself and attempting to divert criticism (regardless of the veracity of that criticism). From what you have written here I only see you really doing the latter.
But what do I know? According to you I’m only here to engage in “ judgmental rhetoric against the NKT”.
the new kadampa tradition seems to be more interested in other non buddhist activities than buddhist activities ie
http://www.hotelkadampaitaly.com/en-hotel
http://www.hotelkadampaspain.com/en-home
a hotel chain
http://kadampa.org/en/centers/world-peace-cafes/
a cafe buisness
http://nkt-kmc-manjushri.org/service/business-meetings-venue
buisness venue
and of course a ’spiritual empowerment’ at disneyland paris
http://www.english-magazine.org/content/view/585/92/
http://kadampa.org/en/newsletters/3076/?height=500&width=500
THIS IS WHAT KIND OF BUDDHISTS THESE PEOPLE REALLY ARE.
THE NKT HAVE A INTEREST IN CHINA
http://kadampa.org/en/centers/kmc-hong-kong/
hate the dalai lama ? love china ! join the nkt!
‘The whole clamp down on the practice of the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden is dirty Tibetan politics that has led to widespread misery among the Tibetans in the exile community in India due to his ban of their religious practices’
Hold on-I thought the fifth and thirteenth Dalai Lama’s also banned the practice, as did numerous heads of the Gelugs throughout the deity’s three hundred year stint? And whats that on the Al Jazeera video ‘4 million worshippers’ where did they get that stat from? L Ron Hubbard? Did Al Jazeera know that the Shugden cult attempted to insult the Dalai by claiming he was ‘a muslim’ when they fed them that garbage I wonder?’Dirty politics? Yeah, right.
what kind of buddhists are these ?
http://www.hotelkadampaitaly.com/en-hotel
http://www.hotelkadampaspain.com/en-home
ones that dont mention they are buddhists when they are selling you a holiday.
what kind of buddhists are these?
http://www.kadampafestivalparis.org/
that have festivals at disneyland.
what kind of buddhists are these?
http://images.kadampa.org/news/news-header/2009_Brochure_page1.jpg
that use sexual imagery to sell buddhism
what kind of buddhists are these?
‘In reality, this tradition faithfully practices the Gelug teachings of Je Tsongkhapa as passed down through generations of masters,’
In reality, Je Tsongkhapa did not practice Dorje Shugden or Vajrayogini, two most central practices of the NKT. This is therefore a lie, though cult members are often blind to the truth about themselves, prefering to launch attacks on ‘opponents’ to justify themselves.(Google ‘Operation Freakout’ )
LRon Hubbard wrote:
‘Game: a contest of person against person or team against team. A game consists of freedoms, barriers and purposes, and there is a necessity in a game to have an opponent or an enemy….To live life fully, then, one must have in addition to “something to do,” a higher purpose, and this purpose, to be a purpose at all, must have counter-purposes or purposes which prevent it from occurring.’
This is the meaning of life for LRon…and the NKT?
Just watched Tommy Davis, senior Scientologist, being questioned about his religious beliefs. His response? That it was offensive and unethical to question another person’s religious values-the ‘freedom of relgious thought’ argument so prevalent in 21st century liberal society, an argument that does not take into account the great harm a particular relgion might be doing to individuals and society. Now where else have I seen that argument used recently? (Chants: ‘Dalai Lama Give Relgious Freedom’)-Aaah yes, now I remember!
Lets look beyond NKT and anti-Tibetan Buddhism propaganda:
The New Kadampa Tradition is the continuation and the final peak of the most conservative fraction within the Gelug school. To understand NKT one has to understand the history of Tibetan Buddhism and the history of Tibet.
Within Tibetan Buddhism the conservative fraction within Gelug school was the main opponent of democratic reforms and the ally of the aristocrats and they together were mainly the main opponents of the democratic reforms of the 13th Dalai Lama, which cut the rights of the aristocrats and gave more rights to the poor…
…and of course nowadays, since NKT has chosen to keep the heritage of the conservative lamas ‘purely’, NKT and Kelsang Gyatso are necessarily the main opponents of the 14th Dalai Lama….
The conservative fraction within Gelug school started to intertwine their conservative position in their teachings and the main point these were often issuing was, that the old time is glorious and pure and the new time very degenerated and impure, everything new is the work of the Mara (devil) and everything old is goodness by its own right.
It is in this context that worshipping of Shugden appeared and became so close to the conservatives. Not only that the 13th Dalai Lama predicted that these backward and closed (often sectarian and narrow minded) minds will lead Tibet into a catastrophe, when he actual died, the most conservative Gelug purists were able to gain more power again, and to make the controversial Shugden practice even more widespread than previously, ignoring the restrictions or prohibition of that practice by the 13th Dalai Lama. Actual it was Pabongkha Lama, the main proponent of that practice, who broke his promise to the 13th Dalai Lama, and this broken promise may have formed the basis that these power struggles and disputes did not die out and continue until today – prolonged by those who uphold his most conservative / sectarian heritage.
The predicted catastrophe finally came over Tibet and Tibetans had to escape altogether from Tibet (if they were able to escape) – no matter what faith they had. When they came to the West the most conservative Gelug fraction exported these issues to the West.
NKT’s claim Shugden worshippers would be “pure” because they do “not mix Dharma with politics” is a nice tale, but it is discordant to the facts. In fact Shugden proponents make and made politics as well and Pabongkhapa was a government agent from Lhasa, responsible for the destruction of religious artefacts of the Nyingma school and sectarian disputes.
However, though there are these power struggles, Tibetan Buddhism has really something worthwhile to offer to the world, no matter how ugly NKT show themselves.
NKT are just the peak of the most conservative branch within Gelug school with a strong tendency towards religious fundamentalism and purism. All this can be found in other world religions too, so my suggestion is to put these appearances into perspective by knowledge and understanding of the facts.
For more on history of Tibetan Buddhism I can recommend:
- Prof. Samuel “Civilized Shamans: Buddhism in Tibetan Societies”
- the Video “Angry Monk” by Luc Schaedler: http://www.buddhistmedia.com/uitzending.aspx?lIntEntityId=923&lIntType=0&lIntYear=2008
- The Shukden Affair and its origin by Prof. G. Dreyfus http://dalailama.com/page.149.htm
All commenters please note that including two or more links within your post causes your post to enter the moderation queue. This can greatly delay your post from becoming visible on the site.
Please try to restrict yourselves to one link per post in order to circumvent this.
Thank you.
i wish to correct one point: i’ve just glanced through the comments before I added my commment and it appeared wrongly to me, that there is “anti-Tibetan-Buddhism propganda” involved. the fact that there are movie strips from the PRC with monks holding weapons when they come out of the monastery is what i put into this category. in general in a war such images should be taken with scepticism since they are published for the sake of war propaganda to justify injustice actions, and it is not clear what was really going on in that monastery. So I am really sceptical with these Chinese images of monks coming out of the monastery bearing weapons – however my judement of “anti-Tibetan Buddhism propaganda” is very wrong in the context of the comments above.
Thank you themadhair for your outsider and analytical perspective, this cuts through the polemics. Usually the discussion ends up in polemics and no body has any gain by using a polemical approach.
With respect to NKT there is also a BBC documentary called “An Unholy Row” and a correction by SWISS TV who has published similar to Al Jazeera and France 24 TV “facts” which can’t stand up verification (e.g. 4 million shugden practitioners and the persecution claims): http://www.tibetonline.tv/shugden_issues.html
Tibet scholar Robert Barnett of Columbia University states in TibetanReview.net:
(Western Shugden Society (WSS) is as well as Shugden Supporter Community (SSC) a front group of NKT, founded, run and financed by NKT. Only very very few Tibetans give them support or any credit.)
I’d be a hypocrite for not calling this out for being rhetoric after my previous comments.
Some corrections with respect to my own comments:
- instead of “fraction” it should read faction of course
- instead of “movie strips” it should read film strips
- when I spoke of war with respect to China, I meant the violent and injustice taking over of Tibet, which I refer to as an unilateral war against this people
- the term propaganda I used seems to be misplaced and exaggerated, so please excuse the use of it
themadhair probably I lack the intelligence to understand this:
Can you make this more clear to me?
(I said what you have quoted because I was happy to find a comment which is not just a exchange of polemics but tries to investigate the means applied to issue arguments.)
Since the post by “Dialogue In Ireland” points out mainly a “bitter doctrinal dispute with the Dalai Lama” I wish to add that unlike NKT’s claims criticism about the structure and approach of NKT comes not at all from the Dalai Lama but former members of NKT, including the own former teachers, monks and nuns. There exist a self-supporting group called the New Kadampa Survivors and some of them have issued a public note to make newcomers aware of what they should know before they enter or follow the organisation, NKT.
See:
http://buddhismnewkadampa.wordpress.com/
My experience of the NKT.
My experience (10 years) with the NKT leads me to believe that it is a cult. To me the issue of Shugdan/Dalai Lama is more of a smokescreen for the real issues.
The group uses individuals to fulfill its aims, it shows little regard for the individual. You are only useful as long as you do as your asked. The line is the guru wants you to do this and it will benefit all living beings.
Teachers generally do not have much experience before they teach, They may have knowledge, but the practical experience of this knowledge is very limited. These teachers are trying to push you to enlightenment, they themselves are not enlightened. They are trying to teach you how to solve your problems, yet their lives are full of repressed problems. one week you are the best student, this often means that the teacher approves of something you have said, next week your out, because they disapprove.
They mostly show blind faith in GKG and if they say anything that he or the organization does not agree with they are removed from their position. At least 3 of the main successors of the Guru (heart deciples) were allowed to remain ordained even though the guru knew they were sleeping with other monks and nuns. They were only disrobed when this information was published on the internet. Many ordained teachers disrobe each year. The organization is empire building, a temple for every city in the world.
In this organization, you are asked to give away your wisdom and accept the wisdom of another, you are not encouraged to question in any meaningful way the teachings. You are encouraged to attend courses, festivals and other events, they all cost money. I thought i enjoyed my 10 years with the nkt, it was only when i left that i realised i had allowed myself to be manipulated, i had also manipulated others when i taught. Am I bitter now, no, would i like my mother, brother, friend to join the group, no, why, it creates more problems for people than it solves.
sorry i forgot to mention, most of my experience of the NKt was in Ireland. Of the 5 ordained teachers that were sent to ireland over the 10 or so years, 3 of them gave up their robes. Two remain ordained, the current resident teacher and the teacher in the north.
http://www.newkadampatruth.org/
is the website of the organization set up to answer numerous criticisms. If one reads it to just see what the allegations are that have been made against them, it is absolutely terrifying. The dogmatic responses are further evidence of the cult-like nature of the group.
hey –
i’ve been practising within the NKT for 15 years and none of this is my experience. Tenzin Peljor’s historical analysis above (Another Anon Buddhist) is disputed, to say the least, and for every Martin, who has left and subsequently changed his mind about the tradition, there are many like me who are still here, still happy..
NKT is a new development in the western world, and has grown quickly. i think it’s inevitable that there have been mistakes made – as there are in any religious tradition. but one thing which i’ve been proud of my tradition for has been its willingness to learn from those mistakes and to improve – as there has been in every, valid, religious tradition. for example, the NKT’s been writing and revising a legally binding document it calls the “Internal Rules” (or “A Moral Discipline Guide – the Internal Rules of the New Kadampa Tradition, International Kadampa Buddhist Union”) which is steadily democratizing the management of the tradition and its member Centres, and moving away from the old-fashioned model of one person at the top with all the spiritual and temporal power that has been seen not to work for modern people.
in NKT i’ve met – and i’ve done it myself, i’m sure – over-zealous newbies trying to sell everyone they meet their “truth”; but you’ll meet the same people when you go to Church. they soon grow out of it.
newkadampatruth.org sounds defensive because it has to be! like wisdomsword said above, it seems we’re damned if we defend ourselves and damned if we don’t! if someone calls me a child-molester, how can i stay silent? if my very defense of my good name is then used as proof of my guilt, then what has this world become?
to me, NKT is a beautiful tradition that has a heart of gold – and that heart is Lord Buddha’s teachings. just because some of its practitioners have somteimes been immature in its infancy does not, to my mind, justify this label “cult”. i can leave, with impunity, the moment i feel like it. i can question – i often do! i’m not a member of any “propaganda team”, nor am i a wide-eyed convert. i’m a Buddhist, and i’m happy and proud to say i’m an NKT Buddhist.
my advice – to anyone – would be to meet some people like me and make your own mind up about us. they’re lovely at the Centres in Ireland – i just really don’t get how anyone could think they’ve got some kind of sinister purpose! but of course, i’m just spouting the pasrty-line, i guess, to appease my angry god… :-D
another view ……..
http://nktworld.org/leave.html
Since when was Dorje Shugden, the central NKT practice and supposedly the reincarnation of a 17th century buddhist teacher, ‘Lord Buddha’s teaching” Buddha died 2 and a half thousand years ago-do the maths! Spirit or Buddha: who cares? But it certainly is not the Buddha’s teaching.
PS is that ‘heart of gold’ the one that Shugden feeds on while he stands in his ocean of blood or is that the heart of his enemies? very buddhist!
My advice would be do both-go to an NKT centre AND read the critiques-then make up your own mind-If you dont agree, where does that put you?
”for every Martin, who has left and subsequently changed his mind about the tradition, there are many like me who are still here, still happy”
I always had my doubts of the tradition, if im honest. I always tried to see the good in it, i did not want to be mistaken about it, it was my pride that kept me there. I have seen a number of teachers and students (including myself) treat others in not a nice way throughout all my time. It never sat well with me. I have seen people that left ignored, I had been asked not to be in contact with people that left and have been frowned on for talking about them.
Im delighted that you are still happy and may you stay happy.
”i’ve been proud of my tradition for has been its willingness to learn from those mistakes and to improve”
Did it learn from Gen Tubten (gkg supposed successor) after he was found to be sleeping with ordained students, no they hid it.
Did they/we learn from Gen Samden(another successor of the founder), who we were told was a Buddha, by our Resident teacher at Tara centre in Ireland (2007), He did the same, he slept with many ordained nuns, at least 10 have disrobed, some more are in retreat purifying and some are working in nkt hotels to purify. No it was hidden for at least two years, even though Kelsang Gyatso knew of it. Only after it was released to the internet was any action taken. He stepped down and later disrobed.
Did we learn from Lodro, 2008, who had a girlfriend a nun. He eloped. After this became public knowledge, use of Nkt chat was forbidden.
This list is endless, its not just limited to monks, there are a list of senior nuns too. I can go on; no i don’t believe anything meaningful was learned. There are new rules to be broken and hidden.
No effort was made at any time to say sorry to people, every effort was made to hide this stuff, people and teachers vanished. The nkt survivors site has 800 members, as people heal they leave that site. Others don’t even join. This 800 is only the tip of the iceberg.
If it was a pure tradition, there would be no need to defend it. It purity would stand out; it would never even need to be mentioned. What is the line no pure dharma student ever went hungry.
If you remember your dharma, in 8 steps to happiness, there is the story of a lama, accepting a child after a woman said it was his, later she came to take it back. He never defended his honor, yet he was not the father..
I agree there are two lovely centers in Ireland, they are a credit to the practioners, and they raised the money and support the teachers. The buildings are great.
I also agree that there are fantastic people around the nkt (especially in Ireland), I think they were always beautiful.
In the last few months before I left, I saw that these lovely people were often afraid of the resident teacher, would she shine on them or scowl. That depended on how they behaved.
The shudan stuff, really to me is a non runner. The founder Gkg has the right to decide what his tradition includes.
What is more important is for people to be careful before they join any tradition, not just the nkt. Many traditions have had scandals associated with them.
The main difference being most of the other traditions held their hand up and apologized, the nkt no
Am I bitter, no Im happy. I actually consider this a kind action.
It is my experience, it is similar to the experience of many others. If only one person is saved some pain, then it is worth the effort.
I will not be posting again, I have nothing to defend.
martin
http://tinyurl.com/cshbsd
Look at this to see how they are rewrting their own history over the internet. There is hardly a word of criticism on Wiki. Why? Because as soon as it appears, a dedicated NKT team, obliterate it. I used to think the internet a good thing, leading to a higher understanding through sharing views-no, the NKT wiki page proves that it is last man standing that wins and that mob rule is the order of the day, buddhists or just old fashioned bullies?
The existence of the New Kadampa Survivors with more than 800 members disapproves a bit of what dougal claims.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newkadampasurvivors/
“NKT is a new development in the western world, and has grown quickly. i think it’s inevitable that there have been mistakes made – as there are in any religious tradition.”
Why then NKT do not excuse for the faults and harm they have done to others? Where there is an excuse to those misled, financially and sexually abused and left alone when asked for help – even insulted by Kelsang Gyatso to “destroy the pure tradition” by pointing out NKT’s wrong developments?
“but one thing which i’ve been proud of my tradition for has been its willingness to learn from those mistakes and to improve – as there has been in every, valid, religious tradition.”
I can not see this really until now, no official excuse… mainly attacks against other Buddhists and self-defensive behaviour.
If you can acknowledge to learn from mistakes why NKT is unable to respect that the Dalai Lama learns from mistakes too. e.g. that worshipping Shugden as a Buddha is a fault? and instead NKT and their members denounce him to be a “liar”, a thief and “hypocrite”?
“for example, the NKT’s been writing and revising a legally binding document it calls the “Internal Rules” (or “A Moral Discipline Guide – the Internal Rules of the New Kadampa Tradition, International Kadampa Buddhist Union”) which is steadily democratizing the management of the tradition and its member Centres, and moving away from the old-fashioned model of one person at the top with all the spiritual and temporal power that has been seen not to work for modern people.”
what a joke! the nkt is solely in the hands and under control of Kelsang Gyatso, since he will step down and die soon NKT has to change how NKT is governed, until now NKT has been an autocrat spiritual ‘regime’. I acknowledge the fact that NKT can sell defeats as wins. NKT did the same when Kelsang Gyatso’s uncle, Kuten Lama, the oracle of Shugden, turned his back on NKT…, and since then NKT is completely isolated… or as NKT puts is “completely independent”. ;-)
“in NKT i’ve met – and i’ve done it myself, i’m sure – over-zealous newbies trying to sell everyone they meet their “truth”; but you’ll meet the same people when you go to Church. they soon grow out of it.”
of course long-term members are not “over-zealous newbies trying to sell everyone they meet their “truth”; ” they are far more skilled and patient to “sell everyone they meet their “truth”” ;-)
“to me, NKT is a beautiful tradition that has a heart of gold – and that heart is Lord Buddha’s teachings. just because some of its practitioners have somteimes been immature in its infancy does not, to my mind, justify this label “cult”. i can leave, with impunity, the moment i feel like it. i can question – i often do! i’m not a member of any “propaganda team”, nor am i a wide-eyed convert. i’m a Buddhist, and i’m happy and proud to say i’m an NKT Buddhist.”
NKT came into existenece based on conflict and and schism – the root is poisoned, hence the branches, leaves and fruits are poisoned.
“my advice – to anyone – would be to meet some people like me and make your own mind up about us. they’re lovely at the Centres in Ireland – i just really don’t get how anyone could think they’ve got some kind of sinister purpose! but of course, i’m just spouting the pasrty-line, i guess, to appease my angry god… :-D”
I usually say half-joking: “NKT will smile you to death.” Here you can read a report how impressive this is, however, ex-cult-members call this “love-bombing”.
http://tiny.cc/mCyCi
So my advice is to learn the warning signs of a cult and to listen to your own inner voice and try to prevent that your own inner intuition gets corrupted by NKT member’s skills, skileld in undermining your self-esteem, and to sell you holy (or respected beings) as unholy and the unholy as holy.
Warning signs of a destructive cults:
http://www.factnet.org/headlines/destructive_cult_warning_signs.html
In general I think, the solution for NKT could be to detect what’s going wrong within NKT, its leadership, and the own mind. Some self-awareness would be very helpful.
All the protests, websites and advertisment, the mission to spread NKT world wide and to “build a Kadampa temple in every major city” are mere distractions.
As long as NKT focuses on external development and the mission to spread worldwide and abuses – maybe unintentionally – money, energy and good will of new and old members while being unable and unwilling to reflect openly and courageously wrong developments right within NKT; and instead using time, money and energy to hide all these faulst under the carpet and to run slanderous internet campaigns; such an approach is counter-productive for an inner development, its counter-productive to really see and to learn from the own faults, it’s just a distraction prolonging the own inner samsara, isn’t it?
The respect people have for the Dalai Lama and other holy beings is due to these beings’ obvious, tremendous qualitiies, which they have developed inwardly (over many lifetimes), and everbody can feel and touch if he is open.
I think, a healthy growth, respect and honour do not come from advertisment, new internal rules, Kadampa temples, books or websites.
If NKT wants
- to be respected, respect others,
- to be loved, love others
- not to be criticised, don’t critisize others
- to help others, help yourself first by keeping ethical discipline
- to be a servant of others, be humble and modest
- to develope, respect those elder in experience than NKT
As Martin has pointed it out indirectly in his second post, the solution may be to start to love and have real compassion for those within the OWN organisation and those who were abused by its members, right now, and to have espect, attention and love for those people one is living with.
I think the “New Kadampa Truths“-site has something to offer for those interested to improve NKT, something to think and reflect about:
http://www.newkadampatruths.org/
Probably a correction of NKT is only possible when GKG has passed away, since he seems to be the main factor for what went wrong.
However, I think a healthy development can be possible if NKT’s then elected leadership is open for other Buddhists and Buddhist masters, and invites them to help and to teach Buddhism within NKT.
We’ll see.
Tenzin -
??? are you serious?! who on earth do you think you are? i alternate between amazement, exasperation and horror at your writing every place i see it. your karma…
at least you had the courtesy, this time, to call your ordaining master and root Guru *G*KG.
stop it now, Tenzin – please. for your own sake (and this is *not* a threat – it’s a plea from a vajra brother and a Sangha friend.)
LOL!
what kind of buddhists are these….
‘??? are you serious?! who on earth do you think you are? i alternate between amazement, exasperation and horror at your writing every place i see it. your karma…’
‘this is *not* a threat ‘- it’s a plea from a vajra brother and a Sangha friend-glad you clarified that-why on earth would people think something was a threat?Oh, because your NKT!
‘Vajra brother’-oooh-is this a ploy at making someone feel guitly about tantric vows? Dont worry-the foundation of all vows is refuge, and if you take refuge in worldly gods………
‘Sangha friend’-Sangha? ordained according to which Buddhist tradition?
Alll of your ‘Sangha friends’ are disgusted by the damage you are doing to our faith with your base, deceptive behaviour and arrogant proselytizing.
NKT, you suck!
dougal , stop embarasing yourself and pray to your demon god for some more money to build the supreme beings temples
wass not was ! samdens vanishing sex scandal!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samden_Gyatso
and the masters behind the puppets ! recognise any names?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Samden_Gyatso
Reactionary comments posted on sites like these have resulted in genuine forums being closed down. Sometimes by the host and other times by the NKT legal team. I find its better not to make personal comments on others posts and to keep posts free from sarcasm. Even though I do the same.
These types of comments have in the past put people/seekers off reading genuine experiences (positive or negative). For this reason I steer away from Ds stuff.
I ask (and I have no right to ask) that posts are based on genuine experience of the tradition. This way people can really see what the tradition is about and make up their mind based on facts.
This is not directed at any one post, it for me just makes it easier for new people to read the posts.
Also in the past when comments on the tradition have been posted, the nkt? Team brought up Ds stuff, this then took over the whole forum and the points being made by others were lost in the on slaught.
So if I want people to really benifit from this forum, then I must ask myself each time what is my intention before i post. Is it to get one up on another poster, is it to belittle someone or is it to genuinely help someone.
In peace
Martin
Thank you Martin for your mindful reminder. I agree with you. It’s better to avoid any type of sarcasm and to offer genuine experience be it good or bad, as you’ve done here or as others have done elsewhere.
I think this approach will help people far more to sort out things for themselves.
A quite impressive experience has been posted by a former bodyguard of Kelsang Gyatso: The title of the post was “Is it all in my head or not?” and it explains quite well what can happen if someone follows NKT.
PDF of this post:
Is it all in my head or not?.
I was ordained as a nun within the NKt 2 years ago in 2007, after 12 years studying and training in nkt. When I came back to Tara Centre, Dublin, Ireland, I moved in and my relationship with the resident teacher changed.
The first thing that made me question my decision to move into the centre was doing a small job, sticking on pads to the bottom of the legs of some chairs, (so they would not scratch the floor) the resident teacher said to use glue, I said I did not think we need to as they were self adhesive pads, the look of shock and horror on the other student face just because I had question the teacher over such a small thing. She could not believe I could question a request from the teacher.
Later my brother-in-law was taken seriously ill, it looked like he was going to die that night, I told the teacher I was going to the hospitable to be with my sister, it was clear that the teacher did not want me to go, she said I should check my motivation for going and I would see it was out of attachment for my family. She asked what use would I be to them. I went anyway.
After that things got worse, I was called in to her room and given a 3 hour talk on all my faults and (supposed) mental problems, my attachment to my family, my lack of interest in the centre, my pride and so on. She expressed her surprise that I was not crying, so I was told to go to my room and stay there till I was ready to go to the mediation room and prostrate in front of my spiritual guide and when I was ready then arise with my guru.
I went to my room, rang a friend who told me he had heard of this sort of thing been done before by some hard line nkt teachers to (fast track their student) in other words break you down and then rebuild you!. What nonsense, I now understand why so many monks and nuns leave or become unstable.
Now you would think I would have had the sense to leave and I did not, I believed that the teacher was doing this for my benefit ( I was so conditioned to believe that she was the expert. She told me her teacher had done the same to her. I was also afraid to because we were told that if you break your connection to the spiritual guide you would go to hell. (yes the Buddhists have hells also)
Thing got worse my self confidence was at a all time low, everything seemed to be my fault. ( I rang a friend (for support) who had left a few weeks previously, he would not speak to me, even though I told him I wanted to leave, he believed I was trying to trick him back to the organization). I was not the only one having a hard time at the hands of the resident teacher.
As education program coordinator i was told to report to the teacher about what people were talking about in the centre, i was expected to tell people off for their behavior so that the teacher would not look bad in front of her peers.
One class was on mother day , some of the students missed the class and i was told to but black marks after their names, 3 or 4 black marks and you were expelled from the study program. I was also expected to tell them off for not attending the study program.
One day, I found a young girl who did some volunteer work around the centre, she was in tears because of something the teacher had said to her. When I pointed out to the teacher that she was a very sensitive person the teacher said no she is a very self cherishing ( a term used frequently in nkt centers to torture students) person! A another girl borrowed a centre pen to write with, she got a telling off in front a study class … why? Because she was stealing ink belonging to the centre!. What nuts, I could go on more and maybe I will later.
As for me I decided to move to another centre in the Nkt, the teacher told me they don’t want you they are taking you because they have to. ( she was saying this to a broken woman, that was doing her best to stay ordained), she said who would want someone like you in there centre. You have let everyone down you have let your spiritual down and lots more. Its not that I wasn’t feeling bad enough.
In the end, I left the tradition, I disrobed. It has taken me two years to recover, Im still in recovery. Thankfully I have a good family and friends and they support me.
In my experience the nkt have become less democratic in the last few years . When i joined 12 years ago the community (in each centre) was made up of 4 directors who were elected by the members of the centre, the teacher was not allow to be a director . Now the teacher has all control and if he or she does not agree with a decision by the GKG or head teacher, they get removed. This happens, so the teacher is sanctioned by the nkt and will be removed from their position if they do not agree, they are asked to vote and then told how to vote on issues within the organization.
This is some of my story
Hi
Cassidy, thanks for posting your story. I remember your time well. You were treated very badly. I feel compassion for anyone wishing to ordain in this tradition. I feel compassion for the misguided teachers, who fail to learn from their mistakes.
Im glad your recovering.
martin
“Cassidy” –
it breaks my heart that you had such experiences – i’m so sorry that you went through all that. if you ever want to talk (without judgement – you know me), then you have my number.
love,
Jigme
people have had bad experiences with NKT, such as Cassidy, for sure – but people have bad experiences everywhere, in all traditions. that doesn’t make those traditions themselves bad or wrong.
in recent years, much has been done to democratise NKT management, as shown by the Internal Rules, precisely to prevent this kind of thing from happening. it’s not correct to say that, in general, NKT has become less democratic – but by saying this, i’m not trying to say you didn’t suffer, Cassidy, or that NKT is perfect. *no* spiritual tradityion is perfect – they’re all made up of imperfect individuals like each of us, doing their best to practise their spiritual path. the path taught by NKT is a valid one, a Buddhist path, and the folk trying to teach and practise it are, by and large, good and kind people. i’m sorry that your experience differed, Cassidy.
dougal , do you or have you ever lived in a ‘centre’?
deck chair –
yes – so i speak from my own experience. i appreciate that others have had different experiences, but afaics these aren’t the norm, by any means.
just to clarify Dougal,
nkt survivors has over 819 (and people join and leave after they have posted their story) people posting their negative experiences, that is 5 to 10% ( id say 10%) of the population of nkt students on study programs, so it is not a random thing. (Im not counting people that attend general meditation classes as these people are not committed to Buddhism and they come and go on a regular basis)
Things may have changed with the new internal rules, Im sure they have.
But where is the acknowledgment for the experience of these people.
(thank you Gen Jigme, we know each other also, I admire that you posted your post, it leads me to think that some change is taking place)
It is just some people, its a large number of people.
Its good to hear the Nkt is made up of imperfect people, most of us knew that,
yet were encouraged to see the teachers as perfect, I think even the teachers might have believed it also.
I totally agree with your assertion that the majority (maybe all) of people in the nkt are good and kind, they are trying to help reduce suffering. This was my experience, meeting kind and lovely people, its what made it so hard to leave.
anyhow have a good weekend and enjoy the spring festival
martin
Jigme
You seem like a good sort. Dont you have even the slightest sneaking suspicion that you might have been duped into somebody elses long-term religio-political mind game in the guise of Buddhism. Do you really believe that all the vitriol spouted here and elsewhere has ANYTHING to do with what the Buddha taught. Its more like a scene from a barroom brawl in a Western. Save yourself man. If you get out, youll still have dharma; if you stay, the illusion will quickly fade and you could lose everything-as many already have. Leave the NKT, join the Dharma!There is a whole welcoming world of genuine Buddhists out there waiting with open arms, people who will sympathize and accept you and finally you can get on with the genuine business of Dharma, instead of feling fear of being thrown out of your local centre because you refused to go on the demos(sick isnt it?)
Dead Dougal,
I think you and NKT can’t blur the fact that NKT has damaged many members and that all the organisations related with awareness of cults or new religious movements have received complaints for many years now about NKT.
An official excuse and the proof that NKT make it better now is still missed. Former members see the “New Internal Rules” as ‘damage control’.
Also the New Kadampa Truth site does not give the impression that NKT has leaned anything from the past and has a new awareness of facts, since it spins that behind the criticism would be another Buddhist organisation, FPMT, and the Dalai Lama and it presents NKT as the ‘innocent victim’ of the actions of others.
There is a survivor forum for ex-NKT too with more than 800 members who share similar experiences worldwide within NKT. The existence of this is also a testimony that NKT is distinctly different from healthy religious groups (is there any such survivor group with respect to other Buddhist organisations?), and your trial to whitewash this by stating “people have bad experiences everywhere, in all traditions” is very dubious.
Among Buddhist groups NKT is the most controversial, there is no doubt about this, and this is also stated by David Barett, author of “The New Believers: A Survey of Sects, Cults and Alternative Religions” who states about NKT that it is “one of the newest and most controversial buddhist movements”.
Democracy in NKT is something on the papers as you find it in communist dictatorships. In fact Kelsang Gyastso has total power and control, and those close followers or resident teachers who disobey him, and don’t follow his demands or those who have their own mind are quickly removed from their positions without any democratic process. There are numberless examples for this autocrat leadership, a recent example is the removal of Lucy James who had the courage to question the protests Kelsang Gyatso ordered. see: http://nktworld.org/Lucy.html
The claimed democracy is also not functioning as long as Kelsang Gyatso covers up abuses as he has done with Gen Thubten and Gen Samden, and threatens those who correctly ask him to take actions. In that context it is also interesting that as soon as the misconduct is made public and NKT risks to loose reputation he takes actions immediately putting the blame on others and directly or indirectly claiming ‘I have done no faults.’
Only after the death of Kelsang Gyatso there could be democracy. The last more than 20 years he has established himself as the sole spiritual authority and his authority, decisions and actions are not questioned in NKT but are believed to be coming from an omniscient Buddha who is beyond understanding of ordinary beings. If people who hold position in NKT question him or actions of him he takes actions to remove opponents without any democratic process.
The former BBC documentary “An Unholy Row” is also a testimony about the autocrat structure within NKT http://www.tibetonline.tv/shugden_issues.html and since the production of this documentary the autocrat structure has not changed really, what has changed is how NKT presents their face and the skills of NKT to hide what they think deeply from within, e.g. that Kelsang Gyatso is a Buddha who can’t be questioned, that the Dalai Lama is an evil being who is possessed by a mara (demon), and that those following the Dalai Lama are degenerated or mix Dharma with politics and hence are not pure etc. NKT won’t tell this in the public or to newcomers… or if they reveal their thoughts than only after the new member has enough confident to be faced “with the truth” or via front groups like the Western Shugden Society or Shugden Supporter Community which are run by NKT but about which NKT claims they have nothing to do with NKT.
thank you for the post, another anon buddhist,
it helps refocus on some of the issues. I have to disagree with you about your point on the possibility of democracy after the death of gkg, i believe it will never be a democratic organization. The power will always be held by the head person and students will always be controlled by resident teachers. The resident teachers will always have to toe the party line or will be dismissed. There will always be an imbalance of power as the teaching on reliance on the guru are flawed, they will be transmitted in this manner. All people are not equal in the NKT, it could not function if they were.The fpmt have recently released a book on guru reliance, its worth a look.
love
Martin
If you want evidence of whether the ‘cult’ term is applicable to the NKT, take a look at the discussion page on Wikipedia ‘New Kadampa Tradition’ under the sub heading ‘Recent addition to intro’ (its neear the bottom) Someone tried to introduce the phrase ‘Some have even gone so far as to refer to the group as a cult’ Boy, did the s**t hit the fan! talk about savaging!!
Hi Martin, thank you for your comment. I had some doubts when my idea came up that democracy in NKT will probably come when GKG has passed away, because since the last 20 years the closest disciples who are going to be the upholders of NKT have not trained themselves in democracy, they are just not trained in welcoming criticism or different point of views which do not follow the ‘party line’.
So the hope for democracy in NKT in the future seems to be mere wishful thinking, because realistic hope should be based on a factual basis which enables such a change. Rather most NKT RT seem to have trained in controlling and intimidating others based on their own insecurities and lack of self-esteem etc. (At least this is what I understand from the Survivors’ forum.)
Most often (cult) groups based on charismatic leadership fall to pieces when the charismatic leader is not there anymore. Many refer in this case to what happened to ISKCON when its founder died…
Personally I was also thinking there may be more fanaticism due to a loss of fear to loose control, and finally people will quarrel about the meaning of what “Geshe-la said”, since NKT is based so much on his authority that an independent analysing approach for own opinions / views and actions is almost non-existent – a thoroughly lack of discriminating wisdom and a presence of much naivety is the result of the autocrat leadership where every opinion not following the partyline is either perceived as wrong, as an attack or as an delusion….
We’ll see.
Thank you for referring to this book on guru reliance, I saw it but did not have a look into it yet. I will do this in the future. Our teacher emphasized recently:
“HH the Dalai Lama stresses that seeing the teacher as a Buddha, is a training for the student.” And he added: “the teacher can be a Buddha, a Bodhisattva, a hearer or an ordinary being.”
Many problems in NKT, I think, come due to that there is a quite narrow minded and literally approach like one may find it in evangelical groups, then it is understood in the literally sense that the teacher, GKG, is an omniscient unfailing Buddha, and oneself a deluded idiot who mus be rescued by only this unfailing – godlike – Guru. The approach in NKT appears to be rather mixed with Christian concepts: GKG is the Redeemer and solely through him and by ‘complete devotion’ to him salvation can happen.
What do you think about this?
a good post, ill read it again in a few days and reply
martin
Here is an interesting quote, I have cut and pasted it from newkadampasurvivors, which has 860 members now with new members joining daily.
Here is a link http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newkadampasurvivors/
I recently came across a quotation that I thought brilliantly reinforced three
tentative explanations that had gradually evolved after years of watching the
chain of events that made up my twenty years in the NKT. Like so many others I’d
started out so full of enthusiasm. However, after seeing with my own eyes a lot
of what was really going on behind the facade of religious euphoria, for
me,there developed the three seemingly ‘un-connectable’ ideas below :
>
> (1) The one quality that all the diverse people who made up the NKT shared was
a common desire to make themselves into ‘better’ people, who were kinder and
more able to help others.
>
> (2) Years of study didn’t actually transform anyone into a ‘nicer’ person. The
people who were the most genuinely caring, were the people who were nice when
they arrived. Yet , on the other hand, many people who arrived seemingly
perfectly ‘normal’ went rapidly downhill on some form of spiritual power trip.
Those who arrived as dickheads, remained in the same condition, (though often
with titles of authority, or sporting a new set of purple robes). But, as far as
I could see, no one actually seemed to become a ‘better person’ than they were
when they arrived.
>
> (3) Many members of NKT management and ordained sangha, despite all kinds of
vows, dedications, blessings from the guru, and long lists of empowerments,…
comitted all manner cruel and selfish acts to other members. Usually, the more
devoted and ‘high up’ in the organisation they became.
>
>
> I was never able to connect all these loose observations together until the
other day when I came across this wonderful, concise and precise quotation :
>
>
> “There will always be good people who do good things and bad people who do bad
things,…. But to get good people to do bad things you need religion.”
20 years a genuine follower of NKT, Martin, and then to go – to let go – what a step! My respect!
I hope you are fine and well that you may find your way outside of the NKT world!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and this 3-point-summery. Nothing to add for me, it says what has to been said.
Do you still try to use Buddhism as a mean to transform yourself or did you make a distance or a pause, just sorting things out?
still practice so form of buddhisim, thought transformation and some lam rim.
some zen via plum village and mostly work with non dual teachers, tolle, byron katie and so on.
life is good
fine!
nice to hear that.
I wish you from my heart all the best on your way!
just to clarify there have been many sexual/power abuses within the NKT. In the last two years many monks and nuns, both gay and straight have disrobed due to breaking thier vows.
Tubten, was the monk in the first case, gkg knew of his abuses of young nuns and hid them.
Samden, was disrobed last year having slept with many nuns (he was a spiritual director and pure sucessor of gkg), gkg knew of his behaviour for a least two years and failed to act, people who told him were told to keep their mouth shut.
Lodro, another senior monk had an affair for years with a female nun and student and left with her. gkg knew for some time this was happening.
Vajra, spiritual director of austrilia/new zeland left with a monk, straraight monk and both disrobed once their affair was discovered, the lis is endless.
look up nkt on this site for more information.
I suppose no tradition is perfect.
The sex abuse is one thing, emotional and power abuse is rife within the tradition also
for an interesting discussion on rigpa, nkt and fwbo look at the rigpa link on this page
I remember very clearly that one of the main things that attracted me to NKT
was, as it appeared to me then, its ethical and moral core. From the very
beginning I felt that while there was a powerful energy surrounding the centres
which could provide intense spiritual experiences, these things were not the
main goal of practice. They were not to be taken too seriously; the focus was on
maintaining a high ethical standard in daily life and working towards the
ultimate goal of enlightenment, following the humble example of Je Tsonkhapa who
forbade the demonstration of miracle powers, instead emphasising moral living
and setting a good example. I had already realised that my previous mentor, for
all his `spiritual’ abilities, was morally bankrupt and actually would have been
better off with no spirituality at all. NKT, on the other hand, seemed to have
its priorities straight. It seemed perfect. So I went in at the deep end,
falling head-over-heels in love with the Kadam Dharma. Nobody mentioned the
schism with the Dalai Lama which had come to a head in demonstrations just
eighteen months before; by the time I found out about them I had already
invested too much in NKT. While I was troubled by the conflict, by this time I
needed NKT too much to turn back. Instead I managed to persuade myself that –
against my intuition – the odd explanations that I was provided with by members
of the organisation were actually wise and just.
> So. Fast forward a decade or so, and I’ve left the NKT. Looking back, I had a
lot of wonderful times during my period as a practitioner. The bliss of tantric
practice is something that still moves me, as well as the Lam Rim and Mahamudra
meditations. I formed deep and significant friendships and had a strong
underlying sense that my life had acquired a greater meaning. Because of this,
it is difficult sometimes for me to reconcile these memories with the fact that
I have left it all behind, and not only that, I have become very critical of
NKT. It is even more difficult to explain my reasons for leaving to someone who
is still in love with the tradition. This evening, however, I was struck by the
parallel between my old mentor and NKT, and I thought that’s a good way to
express it; for all the extraordinary experiences that NKT can offer, ultimately
a set of true moral principles is lacking throughout the organisation and this
renders all the positive aspects irrelevant.
> This may seem a strange statement considering the great emphasis within NKT
on moral discipline, cherishing others and so on. But it is clear to me that
while NKT makes these sweeping altruistic gestures on the outside, at its core
is something rather different. Under the highly-polished surface lies ingrained
sectarianism and a disparaging view of all other forms of spirituality; an
expansionist drive that uses the energy of new recruits to spread the message
with no concern for their burnout; a cultish dependency on the word and approval
of the leader and an abdication of critical thought that is actively encouraged;
and a systematic, widespread rash of sexual, emotional and financial abuse
practised by those in positions of power. Ironically enough, it is the humble
practitioners who are not involved in running the show that tend to be kinder,
less judgemental and more open-minded. The further you travel to the heart of
the NKT, the more you are twisted – in the name of enlightened principles – into
the very opposite of what it is supposed to be about. And you don’t even realise
it’s happening. Until it’s too late.
> On reflection I do not feel that I was as badly afflicted as many. Although I
had a reasonably senior standing in my centre, I did not get ordained so never
became a Resident Teacher or anything. This meant that although admittedly my
moral life was tainted by the negativity of NKT culture to some extent, I didn’t
undergo the full transformation that many good men and women are subjected to
once they have given over their lives fully to the Guru. Perhaps that is why it
took so long for the penny to drop. But when it did, I had no option but to
leave.
> Now, more than eighteen months since leaving NKT, I am still without a
significant spiritual life. I find the notion of faith problematic. It seems to
me that faith is tantamount to believing what has not been demonstrated to you,
because someone you respect has said it. This, to me, seems to undercut one’s
own powers of critical reflection and leaves one in a position which is
extremely vulnerable to manipulation. I am, of course, open to the idea of
developing respect for someone else to the extent that you take their views
seriously. But that person has to earn your respect rather than be awarded it
because they state they deserve it. And what is the point of actively developing
faith when it grows naturally if someone wins your respect through their actual
good qualities? I think that if someone is encouraging you to develop faith, the
only reason can be that they are not truly worthy of that faith. Otherwise you
would have it naturally in the first place and it would not need to be mentioned
at all.
> Moreover, given the powerful role of psychological drives in attracting me to
and keeping me in NKT, I have a large question-mark in my mind with regard to
the existence of any form of higher power and ‘hidden objects’. Doubtless I have
experienced the power of the Buddhas and NKT practices; but could this not be a
psychosomatic? In truth I do not know, this issue is very unresolved for me.
> Finally, I think that the moral vows that NKT encouraged us to take upon
ourselves all too often served to stunt our moral awareness rather than enhance
it. After all, it is easy to adhere to a rigid code (for a certain length of
time at least), but it is difficult to meet each situation with nothing but
one’s own moral compass to rely on. And I think it is the latter that leads to
spiritual development, however many mistakes one might make.
> There is, of course, a lot more that could be said, and I hope we are able to
exchange views on the subject. But for now I’m going to leave it there.
>
Why would Dalai Lama try to prevent Buddhist practice? Of course he wouldn’t. But is NKT practicing Buddhism?
NKT has a leader, whose family has practiced a protector practice for generations that the leader doesn’t want to stop it. One knows that those who are familiar with spirits, they are afraid of the revenge of the spirit, if they stop the practice.
Why Dalai Lama stopped the practice? Because an oracle told him that the practice has lead them to flea from Tibet, it’s not good for Tibetans. It’s a practice to gain wordly things, therefore it’s not a Buddhist practice.
The only ones that create chaos in Buddhism are the MKT-people. Could it be that it all comes down to a certain spirit worship?
Moderator edit
Wikipedia material removed. Link to the original article is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijang_Rinpoche
End of moderator edit.
The last line can be used as my closing statement!!
Why HH Dalai Lama has asked to stop the practice? I trust him much more that KGK.
Guru Rinpoche announced some protectors for Buddha Dharma – Dorje Shugden doesn’t belong to them.
Worldly spirit practice.
Kev, though it is true that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche spread that practice this does not indicate that practice as being valid or without doubt. There are many highly realized masters from Gelug school and the other schools, including eminent Sakya, Kagyue and Nyingma masters who are very opposed to that practice.
You may quote extensively from Shugden sources which ignore the fact of Shugden opposition completely but this does not help in this context. Shugden was and is a very very controversial practice and it was controversial right from the start: a vengeful spirit or demon, making trouble to others who had to been tamed.
Most think it is very correct that there are restrictions on that practice however, if you like you can practice privately. No problem.
btw, kev, you miss many points here: e.g. Pabongkha Rinpoche was just ONE of the many lineage holders of the Gelug school. Though he is seen as important, he is not the only lineage holder of the gelugpas. It appears some could manage to establish him as the most important one, but this is also a matter of belief.
It is common in Buddhism that wrong developments are corrected by eminent present masters, this has been since 2500 years now.
‘All these facts can be found on Google/Wikipedia, they’re un-biased’
FACT-wiki pages on the NKT are edited constantly by the NKT to remove critical or contradictory info. If you want evidence of that, simply add a small piece of critical info on the page-it will last no more that a few hours, if that.If you check the edit histories of wiki, they are riddled with non-NKT editors who have simply given up in the face of concerted opposition by NKT members.
‘Je Phabongkhapa respected the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism and discouraged sectarianism.’ another piece of NKT propaganda which relies on the ignorance of westerners unable to read Tibetan-Volume cha of his collected works is a collection of letters, esays etc, many of which indicate gross sectarianism. In at least two of the letters therein, he colludes with a local Chinese governor in disputed territory in an attempt to close down non-Gelug monasteries.Again, the wiki page on Pabongka contain aboslutely no critical information. Check editors edit histories.
The practice of Shugden has been controversial from its inception and there is clear documentary evidence to prove this.
However, the NKT claim the ban on its propitiation affects ‘millions worldwide’ The ban in fact applies to monks in the Dalai Lama’s monasteries, Government employees and tantric disciples of the Dalai Lama.Everybody else in the world is free to practice Shugden-In Chinese controlled Tibet, Shugden monasteries receive disproportionate amounts of state funding and only Shugden worshippers are granted permission to study in India.
Thus, the truth of the matter is that the ban effects only a small minority of the 130,000 exiled Tibetan community. Some of these are Kagyu, some Nyingma, some Sakya-none of these engage in Shugden worship. Within the Gelug, a small minority choose to disagree with the Dalai Lama.
Why does he ban the practice? Because it has been recognised that the deity causes sectarianism and, according to reliable sources, is now utilized by the Chinese.
There is a similarity here with the NKT. Do you honestly believe the protests organised by the NKT and its political wing the WSS JUST BEFORE THE OLYMPICS were genuine reactions to religIous opression?
Think-Tibetans revolt in China to draw attention to their plight in the run up to the olympics.
A few weeks later, the NKT/WSS turn up outside teachings by the Dalai Lama, alongside Chinese protesters. They hold the same banners, chant the same slogans.Could it be possible that the protests were engineered from Beijing? In fact, is there any question of this not being the case?
Of course, the facts that the WSS is run by the NKT, the WSS has Western and Eastern branches, members of the Eastern branch regularly meet with Chinese officials in India and Nepal, as well as China itself are all COMPLETELY UNCONNECTED.
Sadly, innocent people come to the NKT in search of Buddhism. What they get is entrapment into a centuries old dispute between fundamentalists and non-sectarians within Tibet and, more widely, between China and the Dalai Lamas.
People who pretend to know a little about history (as those in recent posts above) need to think outside their own narrow, conditioned view of things. Look back a long time and consider ALL available information. Then, make up your own mind.Rely on human intelligence, not following the party line.
Remember, if believing something gets you kicked out of a ‘religious organisation’ that may well be a cue to set the alarm bells ringing. Ask yourself would this happen to you? And if it could, what makes your organization more holy than the Dalai Lama? You accuse him of religious oppression because monks have been expelled by monastic elders for their devotion to Shugden and yet you support a cause which has repeatedly expelled followers for questioning blind devotion to the NKT/Shugden/Kelsang Gyatso. This is the same fault.
If you are going to commit yourself to a cause, first study hard, consider all available info and take some time to imbibe everything (say 30 years) otherwise, you become just another of those hot headed westerners who have no knowledge of Tibetan politics, history or religion and yet consider themselves educated enought to stand up and scream insults at the Dalai Lama on behalf of a ‘holy man’ they may well never have met’ and who may have kicked them out a few months down the line (ask Lucy James)
If this “article” quoted by kev is from Wikipedia, i can only say:
Good Night Wikipedia, and Good Night people who use it!
Already the second sentence quoted by kev starts with a perversion: It says “He was the junior tutor and spiritual guide[1] of the 14th Dalai Lama”. What is wrong with this? Though he was the junior tutor, he was ONE of the spiritual guides of His Holiness. Of course the NKT propaganda team has a keen interest to claim that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was THE Spiritual Guide of HH the Dalai Lama, in order to “proof” that HH the Dalai Lama has gone “against” “his” “root Guru”, hence he is a condemned person, “corrupting the Dharma”….
I guess all the other unique and factual wrong tenets of NKT have been interwoven well in Wikipedia by the NKT PR team; and now NKT followers can present these perversions as “facts” to the reader who lacks knowledge.
Kevs official NKT propaganda is typical-Pabongka’s own guru invented the idea of Shugden as an enlightened being. He passes the practice on to Trijang, then Kelsang spreads it in the West, claiming the practice was widespread in Tibet. it takes no time at all to find historical evidence proving this to be untrue and further that
a) Shugden was not practiced by Tzong Ka Pa,Gelug founder
b) The practice has ALWAYS been controversial-It commenced with murder then generations of Gelug heads (Ganden tripa) condemned the practice.
c) The 13 th Dalai Lama made Pabonka stop spreading the practice-he promised this but openly practiced it after the death of the 13th
d) the 14th also banned it for a limited number of individuals in his fight to maintain the unity of the Tibetan people.
As I say, it is not hard to find the evidence for this, it is all in the public domain.
What the NKT do is push the deity to the uneducated beginner in the West; feed them a fabricated, biased view of ‘history’, and encourage them to see all opposing positions as false (without encouraging investigation into the past).
So what you get is the uninformed nonsense spouted by ‘Kev’ above. Whats funny is, NKT followers know all the answers because they have read them in……..NKT sources. For your future interest , the best place to learn about Scientology and its history is NOT from Scientologists-duuh.
It is very very amazing: Je Tsongkhapa the Gelug founder has never ever mentioned Shugden with a single letter, he established Kalarupa as the protector of his school and he performed the proper rituals for doing this.
Then, nowadays, some, who claim to be Je Tsong Khapa’s “pure followers” label everything contradicting their own views as “lies” and “degenerated”, starting a campaign to eradicate unwelcome facts in Wikipedia etc. and performing press and protest campaigns against the Dalai Lama via a front group, those people claim Shugden would be the “true” protector of Je Tsong Khapa’s school. Was Je Tsong Khapa wrong, was he unable to bound the best protector on his own? Why didn’t he predict that Shugden would take that job in the 19th century?
Lama Pabon Khapa, though respected by many gelug lamas, hold the lowest Geshe degree and he was rebuked by the 13th Dalai Lama – who hold the highest Geshe degree and has a far longer incarnation lineage and spiritual merits, for the establishment of that practice. Finally Lama Pabon Khapa confessed his fault, excused and promised the 13th Dalai Lama to stop spreading this practice. Since he has broken this promise after the death of the 13th Dalai Lama, of course the 14th Dalai Lama has the mess and the duty to correct this fault of Lama Pabon Khapa…
However, since this thread is about NKT and its controversial structure lets avoid discussing Shugden here…
How dare the 14th Dalai lama attempt to tell us what is and what is not Buddhism; after all, what does he know?
The next thing you know Atisha will walk into Tibet and tell everyone they got Buddhism wrong-how dare he! What did he know?
Check out the truth about the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden in this new book:
http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/en/agd
The truth? Sorry, you cheat yourself. Better to say: ‘check out the delusion of NKT about the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden in this new trash book.’ Embarrassing… a new NKT mile stone of the art of expressing the own confusion and delusions as ‘the truth’. How sad!
On the other hand, thank you for this link. In a way it is good that people gradually learn what NKT really think about the Dalai Lama and Tibetan people. Though I think such publications may only weaken the reputation of NKT more and more. What is the benefit of such a distorting pamphlet?
download it for free here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_assassination
see the truth here…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6515252/China-angry-over-Dalai-Lama-visit-to-disputed-Tibetan-border.html
And people say that internet humour is dead.
i will wait for the movie…..
http://www.dorjeshugdenmovie.com/index.html
this has no connections to the nkt , well if you ignore the links page and ignore the fact you was born yesterday i suppose….http://www.dorjeshugdenmovie.com/links.html
http://www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl
how cool is this ! what a wind up mr lama is !
if the movie is out there you will quickly find it quoted and linked in wikipedia.org
http://www.dorjeshugdenmovie.com/team.html
…for now we wont upload our pictures here, to avoid difficulties during our shooting. Please be patient with this we will update this section in some time. Meanwhile you can always contact us via e mail or skype to get more personal information. Never- theless we want to state here that this project is not connected to any organization. Although we will ask our teachers for advice the project is completely independent.
pmsl!
http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/en/agd/what-has-the-dalai-lama-achieved/
With a role for every occasion – holy man, politician, international statesman, simple monk, pop icon, Buddhist Pope, socialist, movie star, autocrat, democrat, Marxist, humanitarian, environmentalist, Nobel Peace prize winner, nationalist, Buddha of Compassion, communist, God-King – the Dalai Lama weaves a complex web of religion and politics that entraps his audiences wherever he goes. Nobody has ever seen anything like it. People are easily swayed by the historical mystique of Tibet and its ‘God-King’, and feel captivated and convinced by his charm.
In practice, character assassination may involve double speak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation on topics relating to the subject’s morals, integrity, and reputation. It may involve spinning information that is technically true, but that is presented in a misleading manner or is presented without the necessary context.
nkt do what they accuse the Dalai Lama to do: weaving a complex web of religion and politics that entraps their followers & audiences all over the internet, including wikiepdia. Nobody has ever seen anything like it. People are easily swayed by the historical spins, double speak, spreading of rumors, innuendo or deliberate misinformation about the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden and Tibet. nkt followers are strongly under the propaganda of their ‘God-King’, and feel captivated and convinced by his charm.
I note repeated attempts above to distance the NKT from the activities of the WSS.
The reason? Political organisations (those that protest outside Dalai Lama teachings calling him a liar to effect political change) are not allowed to be charities. Conversely, charities are forbidden from acting politically.
Over the past ten years and on the basis of their multiple charitable status the NKT have kept tens of millions of pounds that should be in the coffers of the Government-money that could pay for hospitals, youth projects, helping the poor.
But look!
• WSS Press speaker: Kelsang Pema (Helen Gradwell) – personal assistant to NKT leader Geshe Kelsang Gyatso for more than 8 years
• Front man and leader in the USA: Gen-la Kelsang Khyenrab – Deputy Spiritual Director of the NKT
• Front woman and leader in USA: Gen Kelsang Dekyong – National Spiritual Director of NKT USA
• Front man and leader in Germany: Gen Kelsang Ananda – National Spiritual Director of NKT Germany
• Leader in Australia: Gen Kelsang Rabten – National Spiritual Director of NKT Australia
• Geshe Kelsang Gyatso asked all his students by email to participate the protests. Among other things he wrote in one of his emails: “[...] To stop this evil action, as the representative of the Western Shugden Society, I personally will organise demonstrations against the Dalai Lama directly…. Please help… With much love and prayers, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso”.
• Lucy James (USA), official editor of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s books and Resident Teacher for several NKT centers, who did not encourage her students thoroughly enough, was immediately removed by Geshe Kelsang from her position as a NKT resident teacher.
• The identity of the website of the Western Shugden Society is made hidden via proxy server (Domains by Proxy), however some media data in the files refer to “Tharpa”, a NKT enterprise, which publishes only Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s books, and to a translator of Kelsang Gyatso’s books in Spain.
So you see the NKT is the WSS. Thus, the NKT, via its charitable status, has defrauded the UK Government and taxpayers out of tens of millions of pounds. That is why there is repeated denial of any connection between the two above. AND THAT IS WHY, WHEN THE CHARITY COMMISSION GETS HOLD OF THIS, THE NKT ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO JAIL (Do not pass go, do not take (yet another) £200) Remember what brought about Al Capones demise? Follow the money!
PS Do I see references to non-existent phenomena as if they were valid sources?
The NKT abuse the UK charity status to launch a slander – or character assassination – campaign against one of the most esteemed person of this world and the British people pay for it directly or indirectly. The British government should take measures to investigate this and to find out who is behind the websites and campaign of the westernshugdensosciety.org
Behind it is NKT for sure but they use ‘domain by proxy’ for their main website which offers financial support or insurance too if you get in trouble with court for libelling others. I wonder why no journalist is investigating all of this… The libel laws are usually quite strict In Great Britain and while NKT were able to manage to threaten academics and some of their critics to be sued, and thereby managed that critical information about them is still withheld, they allow themselves – without being stopped by anybody – to launch such a slander campaign, which clearly is against the civil laws of Great Britain, and most people just seem to accept that.
On the other hand, all of this shows the great patience of a saint, the Dalai Lama, who just says not even one bad word about NKT, instead he said he is happy that they can “enjoy freedom of speech”. Every common politician would bring them to court, the Dalai Lama accepts in an amazing manner this hostile slander campaign of people who are led astray.
I hope more and more people get aware of what NKT is actual doing and some find the courage to leave NKT….what an amazing event of self-deception and blindness is all of this!
The gain of a NKT festival can be about 1.000.000 pounds. This money is often used to buy new castles or places where old and new recruits are asked to live, and to build it up and finally they will give all of their money, time, and energy – if needed also they claim for state benefit to pay the high renting – and if they have no money any more they are encouraged to ask their family members for money, since these poor mundane beings, only use it for mundane things instead to use it for the “pure Dharma of NKT”.
If you investigate NKT to their core activities it is exploiting – in the name of the holy Dharma – their members and has done nothing for the society but took a lot from society. Now the society is caring for those emotionally, financial and personal damaged by NKT.
Remember the warning signs of so-called cults:
Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be “good enough”.
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower’s mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused–as that person’s involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as “persecution”.
4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.
http://www.dorjeshugdenmovie.com/team.html
…for now we wont upload our pictures here, to avoid difficulties during our shooting. Please be patient with this we will update this section in some time…
i guess the secret service of china or at least some chinese authorities will give them every aid they need, so better to upload the pictures to have less difficulties during the shooting.
who in the world needs this ‘exceptional project and …wonderful result?’
‘Although we will ask our teachers, geshe kelsang, kundeling lama and gangchen lama for advice the project is completely independent.’ – a contrariety like the proclamation of nkt to be a completely independent organisation, the organisation depends only on one single person, hence it is independent? ;-)
Oh yeah Kundeling and Gangchen, the two most prominent Tibetans to have demonstrable links to the Chinese authorities and both of whom have been regular visitors to Tibet where they have praised the Chinese for “preserving Tibetan religious culture”. And the Shugden website establishes that these people are working with Kadampa Buddhists? One is almost tempted to say that the type of Buddhism the NKT are preaching in the West is exactly what the Chinese have prescribed to undermine the Dalai Lama’s reputation and weaken the Tibetan cause by promoting division within the exile community. But I guess the proximity of the NKT to China is just coincidence, as is the fact that they share such common goals. I wonder if new converts are told of the political connection to Beijing? After all, the NKT have always been so open and honest about their activities and misdemeanors in the past.NOT.
http://kadampa.org/en/centers/kmc-hong-kong/
Hi Monkey Man
Funny how NKT silence fell when the references to abuse of charitable status were made???. Its only a matter of time for the NKT-there are too many holes in the bucket dear Liza!
Or was it the obvious and demonstrable links to the Chinese regime in Beijing that did it?
message from a friend in toronto
I just read a post that was really ol ,I think one of the first of this site, It
sounded so much like my own story. I was on drugs and suffering from depression
my father had just die from cancer and my mother was really sick my baby sister
had been taken away by social services. I was looking for answers. I found a
flyar at my work and quickly learned how to meditate finding some peace from my
many worries. but thats how they get you isent it. I suddenly found myself no
longer starveing, tsog was free to take home. and loved and cherrished. at this
point I sat down and had a nice long talk with my teacher about my hunt for a
social community that belived all should be loved and cared for and about. N M
W. SHE AGREED. I thought I found salvation, my reason for living I quit drugs
and drinking and smokeing and video games! I began spending every spare moment
helping my center to flourish. when they started asking my to do regular things
for the center I was honored. then the toronto HYT empowerment came I scarcely
knew who the buddha was but my teacher said I should go anyway, after much
insistance I did go. leaveing my sick barely mobil mother at home because my
teacher said it would do her the best good if I went to the emp. I began
sacrificeing work and family time for the center where “I could do the best
good” when they asked if I would move in to the center if they found a house, I
dident belive that they could. but they did. and I ran. but soon returned having
been frightend out of my witz about abandon the dharma. I gave up my free
houseing my do my cat my girlfriend of 11 years. the center said I should go
help build the temple in NY. I left my mother to die alone in hospital for the
temple. I came back in greif and moved in to the center. one year later I got
ordained. my teacher lied about my vows, my teacher lied about understanding
everyone shuod be accepted and loved if you don’t have any money I was told that
it was ok to come to gp anyway no one would be denied dharma but 1 month ago I
was told this was never true and if you don’t have money you can’t have
teachings. my teacher piled unatainable task after unatainable task upon me
knowing what she asked was impossible.when ttp became avalable she insisted I
join even though I diden’t want to.
I was gompa manager by then and she made all kinds of strict rules for the care
of the gompa and told me there rules wer unchangeable. when it became too much
and I had to go on meds for depression. she took me off of gompa and made
another unqualified person managereven though I protested, and to add insult to
injury she changed the unchangable rules to make things easier on him!the same
changes I had been denied. another group of lies! whenever I chalange her about
her mind games and lies she tells me to leave the room imeidately, quite
wrathfully saying that she dosent want to speak to me when I am upset or she
would tell me if I just belived in karma I would be able to accept this. I
wasent thretning or yelling. she turned the sanga aginst me saying I am a bad
influnce. so every one is cold and curt with me. when I tried to leave she told
me to thal to the admin. the admin said I couldent leave because of my lease. I
said cant you relase me from it she said no because the bank has a lean on my
lease and even if I do somthing to get disrobed ( causeing me to get kicked out
) the bank will come after me for the remainder of my lease 5 months.I have been
sleep deprived, malnoursihed, publicly degraded, mentally tortured and taken
advantage of. I am in hell and have to participate anyway even though I don’t
want to any more. I am gonna go crazy! I don’t even belive any more. I have
continue to particapate in all my center doings because to stop is to be removed
and still owe for the lease! please someone tell me this isent legal!
Hi patricia,
stuff like this is an all to common occurance.
when you read the internal rules of the nkt, it main aim is not the enlightenment of students but the spreading of its teachings and The building of temples. resident teachers this commitment in their remit. Students are good students whilst they attend centers, Festivals and donate money. this is whats needed to fund the building of temples.
martin
Dear Patricia,
I am very sorry for what you had to experience. It makes me sad to read it. I would like to write something but I fear I do not find the right words, and to impose too much my opinion onto you.
However, I felt very touched to read your story and I wish to say, thank you for sharing it.
……
What comes quickly to my mind is one point which really touches me deeply. That is what you say about your mother when she died, that you had to leave your mother alone dying to build the temple. This is so sad to me. Not only from common sense and human perspective, but also from the Dharma perspective. In Theravada and Tibetan Buddhism even as a monk or nun one is strongly encouraged and supported to nurse the parents when they are sick or are going to die. It is expected that one does this. True spiritual friends will help you with all means to take up this responsibility. From the point of view of compassion and kindness as well as what the Buddha has taught it is just wrong to bring someone into a situation where he or she can not care for the parents. Also the Buddha has taught: Worshipping the Buddhas and nursing the sick both create inexhaustible merits… It makes me just sad to read that about your mother – not speak of the other pains.
You have entrusted your life to a group which took advantage of your situation and (blind) faith. Did you now leave the NKT or are you trying to find a way outside of the group?
With respect to the drugs, you said you took before entering NKT, I wish to add some thoughts: There are many former drug addicts or alcohol sick people in NKT and in the beginning the powerful setting of NKT can break very strong mental habits, a bit like done in Synanon. However, the release is only a short term benefit, because the former dependency on the drugs is replaced by a strong dependency on the group and Kelsang Gyatso, and one will cling to the group and him as one has once cling to the drug or alcohol bottle. If one investigates NKT carefully the destructive structure of NKT functions really like a drug, and most behave like drug addicts. And also the effects are the same as with drugs or alcohol: a short term benefit (feeling secure, feeling in a way rescued or complete, problems are not manifest for a while) is overcome finally in the long run by great emotionally, financially and social ham (with respect to destroyed relations to the family and friends), which can damage the life very very deeply.
I hope, wish and pray that you can recover from all of this, that you may find good spiritual friends and help according to your needs and inclinations, who help you really to set your mind and heart free.
Warmest Regards.
Patricia
Speak to whoever granted you the lease and explain the situation. Also, raise this issue with your congressman, pointing to the criticisms of the group on the internet and ask for his/her help. If you have faith, this will see you through-remember, abandoning the NKT and abandoning the dharma are two completely distinct issues. The dharma is a precious faith, the NKT is a political money making machine. I ask that everyone who reads of this case spare a moment to make prayers for this person, irregardless of faith.
isnt it sad how many people go to religious communities in a search for a support network rather than salvation? This is SO common in the NKT. A common cause, camaraderie, friendship. I mean, these are wonderful things but do they really have to do with the Buddhist path to enlightenment? It strikes me that the NKt are preying on a social malaise that is becoming increasingly pervasive; the sense of utter isolation that we experience. However, to replace drugs, sex, alcohol with Buddhism is in one way only changing one’s drug. Personally, i prefer drug free. Addiction to Buddhism to support ones egotisitic desires is not that much different than addicton to substances or sex.
Hopes, be they based on worldly or spiritual goals are ultimately sent to disappoint. Better to not have the itch than to have the pleasure of scratching it.
One has to see NKT in the cultural and social context where it emerged ans is successful, and of course one has to ask WHY are they so successful to attract new members. Some of the reasons are the spiritual thirst of so many and the tiredness with this consumer mentality, then there are so many broken families and even in families the lifestyles can differ so much, that NKT with its “we are the Kelsang family” approach and the uniformity in belief is potentially very attractive etc.
However, this are things related to the socio-cultural context of NKT’s emergence, far more important for me is, how one can help people once damaged by NKT or how one can protect people from falling into this dangerous trap….
Often former members have just not the strengths to address those things with person who could do something. You can usually not do much if you have a type of post traumatic stress disorder as many experienced when leaving a cult or here NKT….
So for instance I was not able to do anything in the first years after leaving NKT, I suffered on extreme tiredness, and when a doctor suggested this may be psychological problem I refused that diagnosis because the inner voice I developed in NKT, my personal brainwasher, told me: no this is not true, the you would not be a good Dharma practitioner and you had failed. You can not imagine, how much NKT affects the mind in a negative sense once you have absorbed that system.. or maybe you can when you look on the Western Shugden Society activities….
So to go to your congressman may not be the right order of gradual recovery from NKT. You may end up more broken because you are unable to express what you have experienced in a way that the other person understands and does not think you are somewhat crazy. However, maybe some can do that, than fine, it will protect at least some potential victims.
sorry for my terrible English, I think you will get the key thoughts.
Here maybe a useful link http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-easy-to-read/index.shtml
to understand cults or NKT also to read about Narcissistic personality disorder is helpful. it is helpful to see the leadership of NKT and the group dynamics – including one’s own role in the group – from this perspective. Our Western society has a lot to do with narcissism, isolation and loss of a real caring attitude. Drug, sex, alcohol and other addicts suffer usually a great deal on self-centredness. Now based on this setting, ask yourself: What happens when a self-centred cult comes in the guise of altruism?
A friend of mine once said: our society has a lot means to correct mislead egoism but is almost helpless when it encounters misled altruism.
Ex-NKT may also read some books what one experiences when one has a partner who suffers on a Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), because they will understand their experiences with their resident teachers or some of the members of NKT or the leadership better.
Some of the signs of that disorder are:
* Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demands to be recognised as superior without commensurate achievements);
* Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;
* Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);
* Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);
* Feels entitled. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her unreasonable expectations for special and favourable priority treatment;
* Is “interpersonally exploitative”, i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;
* Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or accept the feelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others;
* Constantly envious of others and seeks to hurt or destroy the objects of his or her frustration. Suffers from persecutory (paranoid) delusions as he or she believes that they feel the same about him or her and are likely to act similarly;
* Behaves arrogantly and haughtily. Feels superior, omnipotent, omniscient, invincible, immune, “above the law”, and omnipresent (magical thinking). Rages when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted by people he or she considers inferior to him or her and unworthy.
There are good books for those having suffered under the NPD of their partners, these can be very helpful in the process of understanding what happened to oneself. I think most often to do a therapy is indeed a great mean to recover as well. However, recovery from NKT is a very long term process!
replace the word god with geshla/dorje shugden.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18216-dear-god-please-confirm-what-i-already-believe.html
http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/
MORE BULLSHIT TO PROTECT RON COOKS BOOK
the more they express their mind the more obvious it becomes for deattached observers to understand how NKT members think and what is deeply in their hearts. they want to expose a non-existent hypocrisy of the Dalai Lama but only expose their own hypocrisy, they want to expose non-existent lies by the Dalai Lama but expose only their own lies. There is almost not one passage of what NKT is transmitting about the “truth” about the Dalai Lama which is not an actual truth about themselves, and this truth starts with the dictatorship claim (who made him the sole source of authority in NKT?), goes on with the claim to seek control over students of Buddhism (who banned all qualified teachers from his centers and claims books by other masters would confuse his pure followers, and threatens close disciples when they seek teachings from other Buddhist masters?) and continues up to the statement “But behind the rhetoric, the public image and the charisma that has dazzled the world is a [crazy troop] who has failed repeatedly.”
The “truth” – which is actual a strange twist of the facts – NKT project onto the Dalai Lama is the truth about themselves. All these are the projections of misled deluded members of a cult. Ok, it is as it is. However, In all ways it is important to have compassion for them, including Geshe Kelsang or Geshe-la. Especially for him great compassion is needed.
Too right ! Lets face it in a couple of years time the nkt will be dead as a dodo like many cults that have come and gone over the years , The dalai lama will always be remembered as a peace maker not a demon as the nkt would like everyone (well themselves mainly ) to believe…
yes, HH the Dalai Lama will be remembered as a man of peace, humility and compassion as he is.
what makes me wonder how forgetful NKT members are. Geshe-la said some years ago:
http://www.pressreleasenetwork.com/newsroom/news_view.phtml?news_id=124
So if it is a political problem then it follows a campaigning is also political. He also said on Google Groups:
So it follows now he has his second experience of politics in his life. It follows that the NKT campaign via WSS is in nature political or if this is not the case, the claims he made in the past were wrong.
If we take Geshe-la seriously about what he said (Buddhas don’t change their mind just how the wind blows) it follows the claim of NKT’S ShugdenBlog is not taneable which twists the facts in this way now: “Some critics of the Western Shugden Society have claimed that its agenda is a political one and that the new book, ‘A Great Deception’ is a political book. So, is this the case? The answer is, quite simply, ‘no’.”
No, the answer is, quite simply, ‘yes’, because Geshe-la said “this is a Tibetan political problem and not the problem of Buddhism in general or the NKT.”
Dear NKT Spin Doctors do you respect what your Guru said or not? If you have faith in your Guru, you should accept what he said “this is a Tibetan political problem and not the problem of Buddhism in general or the NKT.”
you’ll find the “interview” by his disciple Yvonne Nilles here:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.religion.buddhism.nkt/msg/4e76df4b3c6293ec
I forgot, take this interview with a grain of salt. one person I trust said he saw himself Geshe-la being present during this Kalachakra initiation, he stand besides him. the lettter mentioned is the so called expulsion letter. this letter you find here:
http://thedorjeshugdengroup.wordpress.com/files/2009/12/declaration-of-expulsion-of-kelsang-gyatso-from-sera-je-monastery1.doc
It seems there are two letters here, one is the “Declaration of Expulsion of Kelsang Gyatso” and the other is “To the Tibetan Buddhists around the world and fellow Tibetan compatriots within and outside Tibet”.